Longbow are flat out overpowered.
By
Arc_Salvo,
Posted on: 2005-12-17 12:35 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Longbow > Villains. Pretty much it. Or I guess we can just use the "Longbow rawks, Villains suk" line of logic.
Or the devs want us to get so sick of being thumped by Longbow, that we go back to COH high-level gameplay just to get away with 'em.
But seriously... it's probably a design oversight.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
Yes they are. It's like training to fight in PvP, actually. Wonder why the heroes don't have to deal with a villain group which bosses boast psionics, super strength, self-heals, radiation debuffs, etc etc?
Pretty lame, actually.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
You know. All those things Pseudotron lists would be so rocking if ED (and to a certain extent I5) never happened.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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So, devs, any reason that these guys are so absurdly powerful, and Arachnos is so very weak?
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While I completely agree about the Longbow being overpowered, I would like to point out that Arachnos isn't all that weak at 40+ either. Ever taken notice of those nifty smoke grenades the Night Widows get (at least I think they come from the Night Widows)? On large team spawns I've counted more than 8 Smoke Grenade debuffs stacked on my corrupter but even just one is enough to completely remove you from the fight if you don't have +perception. They last a really long time and while they're active all you see in front of you is an empty hallway.
It starts long before level 40. Somewhere around level 30 they become they only flamethrower NPCs in the entire game who will stack flamethrower cone attack and an AoE ignite. What's more, if that Ignite isn't auto-hit, it's got to have some obscenely high +ACC behind it. I can stack enough force fields to keep most of my minions from getting hit by the cone attack, but I'm not sure I've ever seen the Ignite attack miss.
For my level 34 merc/poison mastermind, Longbow Flamethrowers are the only remaining reason why I keep the difficulty setting at Villainous or at most one above it. At that difficulty, I blow through everything else in my sleep. When I'm doing newspaper missions and can therefore pick which villain group I'm willing to fight, when I'm guaranteed I won't face Longbow, I keep the difficulty at +3 or higher, and not only do I hardly ever lose a minion, I usually make it through a mission without even using a single inspiration.
But even at Villainous difficulty, if I run into a spawn with three Longbow Flamethrowers, I lose every single minion in the first 10 seconds of the fight. With two of them, if I miss with Paralyzing Poison or if I don't see the second flamethrower in time and they both get their attacks off, I still lose every minion in the first 10 seconds of the fight ... even the Commando, who supposedly has damage resistance to fire!
The basic balancing rule is that even if you're a near-total incompetent, you should be able to solo three +0 minions. Three +0 Longbow Flamethrowers = this Mastermind runs away or he dies. Period. I've fought spawns with Elite Bosses in them that were easier than routine Longbow Flamethrower minion spawns. Heck, I can think of at least one signature archvillain who has a lower AoE damage rate than a pair of Longbow Flamethrowers do!
I realize that for every build, there's probably at least one group out there that causes problems for you. I know that most tankers have trouble with mobs that do psi damage. I know that most people with dark energy attacks have a hard time fighting the Banished Pantheon, who are apparently all 50% or more resistant to dark energy. I know that builds that don't have always-on mez protection hate fighting Circle of Thorns and Rikkti because their bosses and even some lieutenants chain-spam sleeps and holds. But having done all of the above, I have to tell you, no single minion in the entire game stands out in my mind as so massively over-powered, relative to minions in general and even with regard to other minions in the same villain group, as the Longbow Flamethrower.
Minimum Suggested Fix: Make sure that Ignite is working as designed, that it isn't auto-hit. It does way too much damage to be an auto-hit area effect attack. And if I'm wrong and it's not auto-hit, it needs an accuracy reduction, so that it doesn't wipe whole teams in the first hit. If that's not feasible or if I can't persuade the developers that I'm right about this, then please modify the Longbow Flamethrower AI so they don't always chain the two attacks in the first couple of seconds of the fight.
Preferred Fix: The combination of Flamethrower and Ignite is too powerful for a minion, period. That's a boss-level combination of powers. At the level where Longbow Flamethrowers get Ignite now, have it replace Flamethrower, not stack with it.
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even the Commando, who supposedly has damage resistance to fire!
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7% resistance.
Yeah, I'd say longbow is the toughest enemy group in the game. either them or CoT, but with CoT it depends alot on whate types of units spawn.
The wardens are just insane. I've seen an SS/Inv one kill my friends em/inv brute in something like 3 seconds.
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-At level 40 gain an AoE hold that can punch its way through a Brutes protection. Thats a bit rediculous.
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I know this one, it's the Disruptionfield Grenade you're talking about, and it punched right through my Stalker's status protection WITH Increased Density going too. This can only be a bug. The power itself is supposed to give a negative Res modifier, not be some unresistable magnitude hold.
I've made a post about it on the bug-boards, seen other people post about it too, but as of yet, it has not been really picked up by any programmer/dev. It's highly annoying and kind of breaks lvl 40 longbow, as soon as there's a lt amongst them.
I especially hate the nullifiers, because it is quite easy to break protection when theres 3 or 4 Lts per group. When I am in an 8 man team fighting longbow post 40, I'm held every group.
The spec ops can be assassinated.
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The Wardens are just insane
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The Invul/SS Wardens are very well capable of one-shotting anything not a Brute. They were given KO Blow for some reason, and easily do over a 1000 damage with that attack alone. My Stalker got one-shot by them at least two times, while not even Infernal managed to one-shot me with any of his attacks.
It surprises me they didn't give the Invul/EM Wardens Total Focus and Energy Transfer so they could properly one-shot Brutes too ... 
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So, devs, any reason that these guys are so absurdly powerful, and Arachnos is so very weak?
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I also wonder this. Ever been in Siren's Call and watched a Hot Spot just fight it out without any Heroes or Villains to aid either side? Longbow ALWAYS WINS. The Wardens buff everyone around them, while the Flamethrowers take down the Crab Spiders and Fortunatas with ease. That leave the completely incompetent Tarantulas to fend off themselves from the Zerg of Total Annhilation. Longbow has a higher DoT than Arachnos, they have quicker recharges on their attacks, they have Bosses who buff their attacks and defenses, and they have more HP. Arachnos gets weak forces, what looks like 1/2 the spawn amount, and totally pwned.
NERF LONGBOW.
plz
All there reasons are why they're worth more debt than normal.
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All these reasons are why they are worth more XP than normal.
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But that really does make it unfair in Hot Spot Battles. This is why Heroes are almost always controlling the zones. Since I have pruchased this game, I have been able to buy Temps from SC a total of ONE time. I think most villains are tired of fighting Longbow all the time, I know I am. It seems every other contact mission pits me against them and as a Stalker, this is not good. I can't succeed with the Flamethrowers flamethrower attack while in a Hotspot because it takes me out of hide, thus aggroe'ing whatever Longbow are not already aggroed on the Arachnos(about 75% of the spawn) causeing my quick and almost immediate death and adding an absolute ton of debt. I know the solution most would say "Stay out of SC", but this also happens on team missions.
I'd say, at a cost of the higher XP, drop the Longbow down to the Arachnos level, OR buff Arachnos up to the Longbow level and give them higher XP.
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All these reasons are why they are worth more XP than normal.
[/ QUOTE ]And all these reasons while piled on top of each other make them absolutely *no* fun to fight.
Yes, play a ninja mastermind to 40! Come watch as your henchmen with +SPD are either killed by the Ignite patches or are sent flying about the room to aggro other mobs. Fun and excitement all around; good times for the whole family!
Folding@Home
Photoshop doesn't make a good artist.
How much more?
Wanna hear something funny? Heroes are making an all-too similar point about arachnos troops in this post.
Coincidence? I think not. I'd wager both groups are functioning exactly as intended.
They're not getting changed any time soon, they're meant to be the bane of all villains, all of them.
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All these reasons are why they are worth more XP than normal.
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Food for thought....they could be worth 3 times as much xp, but if they're not fun to fight, does it really matter? Think about it. When we play the game, xp should be the furthest thing from our minds. I love it when I'm having so much fun that I level unexpectedly. That just doesn't happen often enough anymore.
I've always maintained that Longbow=Malta with a badge. They are a Project Wideawake waiting to happen. 
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All these reasons are why they are worth more XP than normal.
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sez Positron
Nobody likes going to the dentist regardless of how many lollipops they get afterward.
Man, Cryptic comes up with some of the most bass-akward justifications for bad game design I've ever heard....
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I guess it depends on what you're playing. I got to 40th with my stalker, solo'ing missions against Longbow in Warburg. I thought they were pretty damn easy even on the 4th diff setting. Longbow is easy because...
- No caltrops
- No debuffing powers
- No pet summoning
- No particular resistances to anything
- No healing other than some bosses
- No holds, imob, or sleep other than the rare stun or web gernade
- No phase shifting or teleporting
- No self rez'ing
Hmm, maybe I'm missing something, but I think they're the easiest fraction in the game at all levels. Arachnos are way more dangerous, especially the Crab Tankers that have Lethal Resistance. You can AS them with your claws, but that just seems to make them mad.
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I guess it depends on what you're playing. I got to 40th with my stalker, solo'ing missions against Longbow in Warburg. I thought they were pretty damn easy even on the 4th diff setting. Longbow is easy because...
- No caltrops
- No debuffing powers
- No pet summoning
- No particular resistances to anything
- No healing other than some bosses
- No holds, imob, or sleep other than the rare stun or web gernade
- No phase shifting or teleporting
- No self rez'ing
Hmm, maybe I'm missing something, but I think they're the easiest fraction in the game at all levels. Arachnos are way more dangerous, especially the Crab Tankers that have Lethal Resistance. You can AS them with your claws, but that just seems to make them mad.
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This is my experience as well. I had no idea that Longbow were "overpowered". I've taken them out, solo and in groups, with my Corruptor and MM.
Actually, I always considered them the easy group, like the Council over in CoH. Whenever I'm not in the mood for a big challenge like, say, CoT, I pick a mission that should go smoothly, like Longbow.
We often sit and think of you,
We often speak your name;
There is nothing left to answer,
But your photo in the frame.
-Anon.
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Wanna hear something funny? Heroes are making an all-too similar point about arachnos troops in this post.
Coincidence? I think not. I'd wager both groups are functioning exactly as intended.
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Bingo.
They should be hard. I also think Longbow are the most fun to fight, but that's just me. Nice to actually fight hero groups.
The Watchbird: Level 50 Invulnerability/Energy Tanker
Unholy Terrorizer Level 50 Dark/Dark Brute
Granite Slam: Level 46 Stone/Stone Tanker
Ghost's Shadow: Level 35 Assault Rifle/Energy Blaster
Hola Chico: Level 30 Robots/Traps Mastermind
This is rediculous. Level 40 Longbow are flat out overpowered, and I'm calling the devs out on this one. Malta? Pshaw! These guys eat them for [censored] breakfast.
Lets look at the individual units.
Longbow Flamethrower
The bane of Masterminds everywhere.
-Have an AoE power that creates a burn patch for everything it hits. Villain, HENCHMEN, ForceField Generator, whatever. They can effectively stack infinite burn patches.
-Gain another AoE ignite power at level 40, a Grenade that creates a burn patch.
-Already have a cone AoE attack.
Longbow Spec-Ops
-Have stealth.
-Gain an AoE Endurance Drain at level 40.
-Can come in multiples in each spawn, unlike sappers which are regulated to one per spawn, maximum.
Longbow Nullifiers
-Have plenty of regular damage to go around.
-At level 40 gain an AoE hold that can punch its way through a Brutes protection. Thats a bit rediculous.
So, devs, any reason that these guys are so absurdly powerful, and Arachnos is so very weak?
-Edit-
Forgot to add these lovable fellows in.
Longbow Officers, Wardens, whatever
-These guys Buff, Debuff tremendously, and have rediculous amounts of firepower.