Longbow are flat out overpowered.
By
Arc_Salvo,
Posted on: 2005-12-17 12:35 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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The mag 100 Stun is being replaced with a more standard stun (duration based, normal magnitude.)
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Thank you very much.
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Yeah, great for the melees, worse for those without status protection.
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Yup. I don't run any toggles on my dominator so this just gives me another reason to avoid Longbow missions when I solo. I have seen first hand the insta-debt the current version causes so I can understand the need for a change but now you need to find a way to balance it for the squishies.
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Fungal - 50 plant/psi dom
Snarky - 38 thug/dark MM
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I'm going to be blunt here.
Do the people who come up with this stuff know how to balance games?
I'm serious.
I'm going to give you an example from a game system lots and lots of people are famliar with: Dungeons and Dragons. D&D is balanced on the idea of players making a certain income by facing foes of certain threat ratings roughly matched to their own team's rating. Part and parcel of the income won by characters is the idea that they will spend it on equipment. That ability to have equipment is factored into the threat rating of foes tossed at the PCs. It is understood that if you have level 10 D&D characters with no magic weapons or magic armor that they are very likely underpowered to face Challenge Rating 10 foes, because those foes will assume characters who bought such things by then.
CoH and CoV are no different. Foes are balanced in damage dealt per blow, HP, and mez capability on the assumption that heroes will have key powers (and will have lots of slots in them!). Melee heroes are given armors, and Critter melee damage is very high to balance it. Other crucial, non-armor toggles that can be expected of level 35+ heroes are ones that affect accuracy or prevent mezzing.
Toggle dropping removes these assumed capabilities from our characters. This means that the character is put in a state that imbalances the level of threat they can handle - they can no longer deal with threats appropriate to their level. Yet toggle dropping foes do not, in general, deal less damage, and certainly no allied critters they are in a group with do so. They lower the effective level of the player's character but have no compensating reduction of their own.
Stop with the PvE negation of our powers. As implemented it is blatant poor game balance in the favor of the critters. Powers are the only reward we get in this game. It is tiresome and frustrating for cancellation of them to be more than an occasional occurence.
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the same thing can be said about PVP... once some toggles go down you are basically dead in many cases... same thing with being held in a block of ice... once you are held its all over but the dying.. thats why Im getting bored with PVP here...its nothing but trying not to get mezzed.
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I agree, and it's something I figured would be the case in "City of PvP" from the get go. Status effects suck rocks, but we're stuck with them or entire ATs have no ability to PvP at all. So basically I accept it in PvP. In PvP I know it's there and that I have to deal with it. After all, in PvP I also have to deal with sniper shots and attacks like Headsplitter, Knock out Blow and Energy Transfer. PCs hit hard. I'm OK with that.
But we fight literally thousands of critters in the lifetime of one player character. Only the most penultimate of critters should bit as hard as players' top-end powers do. Yet the direction seems to give the NPCs more and more of the player character tools.
And I'll take this point in the discussion to mention that there are Longbow bosses who use Knockout Blow. One-shot city. (Also level 30+ Tsoo Ancestor Spirits use this, which is positively freaking insane).
And hey, while I'm on a tear, who the holy hell thought that Spectral Daemon minions needed a buff, for God's sake? They got a ranged attack in the last major patch! Gloom! What the blazes?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I'm surprised not too many people are saying anything about the illusion wardens. They (and the succubi) have caused more deaths with terrorise (to which not many things provide any defence) than anything else I've come across. Summoning an untargetable pet (spectral terror) who spams out stuff to which a party of 8 has no defence between them and watching either the brute stop fighting and the squishies getting massacred, or the healer getting terrored shortly followed by the brute getting toggle dropped and/or drained then toasted. We know now to concentrate the dominators on the illusion warden, but when there are two of them people often die.
Also, some of the standard longbow bases are very poorly designed, we had issues where the AI wasn't good enough to navigate the ambushes to the end of the map. The result of this was meeting 3 ambushes (6 wardens and 9 nullifiers amongst others) together as they'd all got stuck at the same place near the entrance. That was 2 team wipes, but it was that or log and redo the whole thing as there was no other way out of there.
Black Hole Sun 40 dark/thermal corrupter Protector
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It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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1) Longbow have an XP Bonus
2) Flamethrower: The Multiple Burn Patches is a bug. I've put it on my list of things to fix.
3) Spec Ops are limited to 1 per spawn point for generic spawns. There may be specific encounter groups designed with more than one, however.
4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
5) Arachnos is fairly tough, too -- especially if there are Fortunata's around.
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If Spec Ops are supposed to be one per spawn, then there's a bug in the code. On difficulty 4, I've had multiple Spec Ops appear in a five minion cluster, and had three minion clusters that were ALL Spec Ops. These were the randomly generated spawns, not specifically placed groups.
Now, I'm cool with Longbow being extra scary, now that you award extra XP for the especially hard enemies (although I fail to see what makes Rikti worth so much, sissy aliens). Us villains should have a reason to fear the good guys. But an auto toggle drop seems like a bit much. Wouldn't it be more reasonable - and in theme - to give the Nullifiers a power than renders all toggles non-functional for a short time? Still scary, but you don't get killed trying to retoggle six things at once.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
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Wouldn't it be more reasonable - and in theme - to give the Nullifiers a power than renders all toggles non-functional for a short time? Still scary, but you don't get killed trying to retoggle six things at once.
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For heaven's sake; NO!
Read my post up higher about why anything that deprives us of our toggles needs to be far less scary than normal - including anything in the spawn with it.
A hero or villain without the toggles from their powersets are not the equal of someone at their level. I don't know about you people, but I play at levels of difficulty or on teams where a big spawn of bad guys or a boss is actually scary most all the time. Sure, some are wuss, but that's increasingly rare.
I don't want anything out there negating an entire powerset of mine (or anyone's) in any way unless it is then correspondingly unscary to go with how utterly lame a toggle-based character is without their toggles. It's bad enough that we have things like Psi damage that bypasses entire powersets for some people. Things that negate them for everyone are ridiculous, and I truly fail to see what's supposed to be fun about them.
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I fail to see what makes Rikti worth so much, sissy aliens
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Possibly the fact that they are abolutely thick with stun and knockdown effects from minions up to bosses, they have mobs that see through any stealth in the game, they deal energy damage which is poorly resisted, and their melee damage is some of the highest in the game - and it is significantly composed of energy damage.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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The mag 100 Stun is being replaced with a more standard stun (duration based, normal magnitude.)
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Thank you very much.
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Yeah, great for the melees, worse for those without status protection.
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I have always found it interesting that the few mobs that prove difficult for melees, they complain about them and get them adjusted. (Sappers and now this specific Longbow). The kind of mobs by the way that actually make something like a controller or dom feel useful. Having problems Mr. Melee? Here I'll hold that one for you, no problem anymore. At least they haven't touched Tsoo sorcs, my controllers/doms love them as well.
However, the reverse never seems to happen. I've (and others in a thread someone started) complained about specific ones that my corrupter/MM feels are way overpowered for their level (scrapyarder demolitionists in particular not too long ago) and it is met with deafening silience. The longbow that blow my dom away are the ones that run the inherent (not a toggle so holding them doesn't even shut the darn thing off) leadership toggle that makes the whole group virtually immune to my confuse and much tougher to hold. That power being an inherent, instead of a toggle that with some strategy could be taken out, seems broken to me, but does that get "adjusted?"
Just a curious double standard I've observed. Now awaiting the flames in response.
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I fail to see what makes Rikti worth so much, sissy aliens
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Possibly the fact that they are abolutely thick with stun and knockdown effects from minions up to bosses, they have mobs that see through any stealth in the game, they deal energy damage which is poorly resisted, and their melee damage is some of the highest in the game - and it is significantly composed of energy damage.
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Yep, and another perfect example. One of the toughest enemies for my controller and dom? Rikti drones. See through stealth, lots of stun and knockdown, and have inherent defense bonus making them very hard to hit. And often times they come in absolutely huge packs.
But for my melees? They are easy as pie.
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The mag 100 Stun is being replaced with a more standard stun (duration based, normal magnitude.)
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Thank you very much.
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Yeah, great for the melees, worse for those without status protection.
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I have always found it interesting that the few mobs that prove difficult for melees, they complain about them and get them adjusted. (Sappers and now this specific Longbow). The kind of mobs by the way that actually make something like a controller or dom feel useful. Having problems Mr. Melee? Here I'll hold that one for you, no problem anymore. At least they haven't touched Tsoo sorcs, my controllers/doms love them as well.
However, the reverse never seems to happen. I've (and others in a thread someone started) complained about specific ones that my corrupter/MM feels are way overpowered for their level (scrapyarder demolitionists in particular not too long ago) and it is met with deafening silience. The longbow that blow my dom away are the ones that run the inherent (not a toggle so holding them doesn't even shut the darn thing off) leadership toggle that makes the whole group virtually immune to my confuse and much tougher to hold. That power being an inherent, instead of a toggle that with some strategy could be taken out, seems broken to me, but does that get "adjusted?"
Just a curious double standard I've observed. Now awaiting the flames in response.
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As someone that played a Dark Defender to 50, I'd say that drones aren't really that big a deal. Mezzing is a far (very, very very far away) bigger problem.
As mezzing is right now, it is (like many people have noted) basically totally binary.
You are either perfectly fine or usually dead or useless.
<ul type="square">[*]Placate = unable to attack a target.[*]Knockdown/back = unable to activate new powers (minor irritation mostly and fairly short duration.) The *bane* of some Melee defensive sets that get no protection against it.[*]Immobolize/slows = unable to position in combat easily. Can be death to melee characters who *require* moving into short range to be able attack.[*] -travel powers = deactivate travel powers. Fairly life threatening at times.[*]Fear = unable to initiate any actions until attacked. Only slightly more irritating.[*]Mesmerize = controls who you can attack, but non-attack powers are totally unaffected.[*]Terror = unable to attack until it wears off. Less resisted than most mezz abilities.[*]Stun = slow ability to move, but all toggles drop. Unable to activate powers (and unlikely to escape.) Usually death in mass combats ensues.[*]Holds = absolutely the most hated status effect because you can do absolutely *nothing* except click a break-free. All toggles are dropped. Almost always a death ensues.[/list]
This is a list in the order of least to greatest hated mezzing (IMO). I'm sure things can move around a little, but I think it's pretty accurate.
All of these have one basic thing in common, they take away in varying degrees the ability to play your character. From what I can see, people really don't mind seeing their characters health move at times.
But they *really* hate having no control over what is going on.
I'd dare say that thematically, outright denying characters control is even counter to the genre.
Yup, even mind-control. How many times have you seen a hero/villian strike out while "mezzed" for a heroic finish? Quite a few.
I think that mezzing powers need to be looked at as only *inhibiting* a percentage of movement, damage, protections or powers while effects are active.
Being able to do nothing in one of the most frentically inter-active games is thoroughly unenjoyable.
Still here, even after all this time!
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All of these have one basic thing in common, they take away in varying degrees the ability to play your character. From what I can see, people really don't mind seeing their characters health move at times.
But they *really* hate having no control over what is going on.
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Being able to do nothing in one of the most frentically inter-active games is thoroughly unenjoyable.
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This is an abosultely spot-on summary of my feelings on this matter.
I despise being held. I hate it. I want to break and tear things when I am defeated because of holds. It is not fun whatsoever. It's akin to being one-shotted. It offers you nothing to do.
But I'm not here in this thread asking for it to go away. As much as I hate it I've learned to adjust to it.
I do wish that people other than melees (in general) had recourse against it. I do think it's vastly too prevalent, and I really don't understand why. It doesn't do anything to the melees, and it leaves everyone else with 3 choices. 1) Alpha strike foes to death (very hard these days). 2) Mez them first. 3) Debuff the living daylights out of them so they can't hit you (and pray they don't get lucky). You can also pray for a teammate that can protect you, but that's rare in CoV.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
You know, Venture, I'm still shocked every time I read your posts post-I6. If there is one thing that I5 and I6 did for the good of the game, it was to bring the board community closer together. :P
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The problem is they frobbed all the knobs at once, and now game balance is all over the map.
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I really agree with this. Compare Nerva Spectral Demon Lords with another, similarly leveled LT like a Freak Champion Slasher, and you know that things are out of whack.
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That still didn't do anything, so you lowered status protection for melee types.
Which was done on the sly, and never explained or justified.
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Yeah, that irks me still.
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If you really want to see the melee types get affected by status effects, how about you do this instead:
They could just cancel everyone's accounts instead; it would save time. The game needs less status effects, not more.
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But part of this deal was to lessen the status effect frequency, both by removing them from minions, and by adding status suppression to PvE, like there is in PvP.
But, as you said, you don't like status effects at all, so, I understand where you are coming from.
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Knockback is not fine.
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I understand most of your points, Venture, I suppose it's just personal taste. I really find getting knocked back to be fun, and it makes me feel like I'm in a fight with someone superhuman, or like I just took a rocket to the chest.
What I don't find fun is getting knocked back constantly.
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I never had longbow drop my toggles until level 40.
I'm a ice / ice dominator, I run artic air pretty much 24/7 when I'm in missions. For 39 levels of longbow I never had my artic air drop, except sometimes from the endurance sapping spec ops.
Then, suddenly, when longbow hit level 40, they started hitting me with some kind of really short term stun. The all caps red letter STUN message appears by my name when it hits. And my artic air is shut down.
I'm full on stamina, just my toggle is shut down.
So I got a healer friend to help me test the longbow, we killed groups of longbow, leaving just 1, to see if that is the longbow that is dropping my toggle.
It turned out to be the nullifier. Something changes when the nullifier hits level 40. Suddenly, one of the nullifiers attacks (I believe its a grenade type attack) has enough umph to invoke an extremely short stun effect that drops all toggels on the effected villian.
This is overpowered, IMO. Not once was I able to resist the stun effect, even after using 6 lucks. I brought in a brute friend to test the nullifier, and even the brute was unable to resist the toggle dropping stun.
Buried in this thread, Pahbster, is the promise they are changing that. It was that way by design, and based on our feedback it's going to become a regular stun (with a regular duration).
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
yes Nullifiers are INSANE especially when in an unconvient area with a longbow warden thats when things start to suck I remember that in one mish that and they are firggen wearing tighs and have reseistance to lethal and smashing damage
So agree longbow need some High strength Statemen nerf bat nerf
Here's a great idea: get rid of inherent powers in all mobs. Make those powers toggle or click powers just like the player version. Carry the toggle-dropping aspects of powers over to PvE, and let us fight mobs on a leve lplaying field. That Freakshow juicer giving you problems? Brawl him and watch him plumment to his death, sicne his flight as just been shut off. Those sky raiders chasing you in the air? Watch as their fligth speed gets suppressed from them attacking you. Uh-oh... Mr. Behemoth just lost all his defesnive/damage resist powers because he ran out of endurance. Mobs don't seem so tough when they have to play fair, do they?
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Here's a great idea: get rid of inherent powers in all mobs. Make those powers toggle or click powers just like the player version. Carry the toggle-dropping aspects of powers over to PvE, and let us fight mobs on a leve lplaying field. That Freakshow juicer giving you problems? Brawl him and watch him plumment to his death, sicne his flight as just been shut off. Those sky raiders chasing you in the air? Watch as their fligth speed gets suppressed from them attacking you. Uh-oh... Mr. Behemoth just lost all his defesnive/damage resist powers because he ran out of endurance. Mobs don't seem so tough when they have to play fair, do they?
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Seconded, absolutely. Inherents on mobs remove a HUGE chunk of the strategy available to players, and emphasise the importance of damage - if you can't debuff or hold to remove the powers, then what use are secondary effects? What else is there except hit them very hard until their health is gone?
Players have got tired of computer controlled enemies breaking the rules. It isn't fair, and one of the primary requirements of meaningful gameplay is that it feels fair. This doesn't.
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Here's a great idea: get rid of inherent powers in all mobs. Make those powers toggle or click powers just like the player version. Carry the toggle-dropping aspects of powers over to PvE, and let us fight mobs on a leve lplaying field. That Freakshow juicer giving you problems? Brawl him and watch him plumment to his death, sicne his flight as just been shut off. Those sky raiders chasing you in the air? Watch as their fligth speed gets suppressed from them attacking you. Uh-oh... Mr. Behemoth just lost all his defesnive/damage resist powers because he ran out of endurance. Mobs don't seem so tough when they have to play fair, do they?
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Seconded, absolutely. Inherents on mobs remove a HUGE chunk of the strategy available to players, and emphasise the importance of damage - if you can't debuff or hold to remove the powers, then what use are secondary effects? What else is there except hit them very hard until their health is gone?
Players have got tired of computer controlled enemies breaking the rules. It isn't fair, and one of the primary requirements of meaningful gameplay is that it feels fair. This doesn't.
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I think many of the inherent powers should be toggles, just about all on human villains. But others that naturally flow from their existance, like spirits' flight ability, I'd think that would be inherent because it's not their power, it's what they are.
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Here's a great idea: get rid of inherent powers in all mobs. Make those powers toggle or click powers just like the player version. Carry the toggle-dropping aspects of powers over to PvE, and let us fight mobs on a leve lplaying field.
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I'm all kinds of behind that. Getting that Longbow Warden held is nice, but to see them still firing Quills AND floating in the air...well, it's just dumb. Yeah, I see the point to it while they're non-aggroed, as it makes the Stalker think twice, but I should be able to help the Stalker out, right?
That goes for those darn phase-shifting Carnies as well. Held = no more phasing.
It's not so much the damage - Quills is pretty weak, comparatively - but the principle.
Spec-ops only start using EMP grenades post-40, so the encounters in St. Martial with the ballista aren't quite that dangerous. You might get a half-dozen web grenades, but you won't have your END drained 6x over.
Spec ops, for the record, drain about 3/4 of end that I've noticed, when at even con. A +1 WILL drain you to 0 in one shot.
But as an SS/INV brute I've learned to take on spawns of as many as 3 SOs (with attached troops) and survive in ruthless, popping only a couple of insps, though even that isn't always necessary.
Nullifiers' attack though, is so devastating that all tactics failed when in small groups. The only thing that worked was popping dull pain and running like hell. Yeah, if I'm in a well-balanced, very large team everything's more survivable. But in a 2-person group, the very first spawn when entering one of the more crowded rooms had 3 nullifiers and 3 spec ops (plus the rest, but those are the only ones that I worry about). Yeah, it probably was 3 spawns, but that's sort of immaterial when they're all in the same tiny room.
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Here's a great idea: get rid of inherent powers in all mobs. Make those powers toggle or click powers just like the player version. Carry the toggle-dropping aspects of powers over to PvE, and let us fight mobs on a leve lplaying field.
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I'm all kinds of behind that. Getting that Longbow Warden held is nice, but to see them still firing Quills AND floating in the air...well, it's just dumb. Yeah, I see the point to it while they're non-aggroed, as it makes the Stalker think twice, but I should be able to help the Stalker out, right?
That goes for those darn phase-shifting Carnies as well. Held = no more phasing.
It's not so much the damage - Quills is pretty weak, comparatively - but the principle.
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Thinking about it...one reason that they may use inherents instead of toggles is that it would be hard to have the AI smart enough to turn toggles back on and also to have them control their endurance use so they don't let their toggles drop. We are smarter than the AIs. Plus, we can slot toggles with endurance reduction, NPCs don't get slots.
I wouldn't object if NPCs got a significant endurance reduction on togggles, like the reduction from 50%-100% depending upon the power in compensation for our smarter abilities and slots. (Flight, for example, probably should be endurance-free for villains.) And, shorten the animation times when activating toggles, since it would be asking a lot of the AI to decide what toggles get turned back on before charging in.
But if this was to happen...every arguement we've made against toggle dropping NPCs goes out the window. The best arguement against toggle dropping NPCs is that we can't drop their toggles. And I'm far from sure I would find that a good exchange.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
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Nullifiers' attack though, is so devastating that all tactics failed when in small groups. The only thing that worked was popping dull pain and running like hell. Yeah, if I'm in a well-balanced, very large team everything's more survivable. But in a 2-person group, the very first spawn when entering one of the more crowded rooms had 3 nullifiers and 3 spec ops (plus the rest, but those are the only ones that I worry about). Yeah, it probably was 3 spawns, but that's sort of immaterial when they're all in the same tiny room.
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That's another issue. When stealth got suppression, I raised holy hell about dealing with multiple spawns, particularly Malta spawns with sappers. I was assured by Jack Emmert that wouldn't be a problem, they'd never have spawns so close together you'll aggro more than one. Some spawns were changed in the warehouses, but there are rooms like the three-level platform room in tech environments that are simply designed to aggro multiple groups (particularly if against Nemesis...that room with Nemesis usually has a sniper in each spawn meaning when you're within line of sight of a sniper that group is aggroed). And in Orenbega, at T-intersections, there are often two spawns there that are nearly impossible to pull one out unless you have just the right type of character. And, wandering patrols means even a completely isolated spawn can result in you fighting two groups as a patrol comes up.
Then came I5 with caps on aoe holds, aoe damage, and taunt. The caps were explicitely set based on the maximum size of one spawn, with the assurance that you'd never have to fight more than one spawn. Pointing out that simply wasn't true, we were told to /bug those. Well, I /bugged and /bugged and /bugged as did others. I must have submitted 100 bug reports.
Nothing changed. The points where you often get spawns close together still get spawns close together. There has never been anything in the update lists about changing spawn points on mission maps to avoid it. Other than the statements from Jack Emmert that no, no, this really was a bug, there is no reason to believe that bugs about overlapping spawns aren't simply routed to dev:null.
And, with I5, in mission ambushes became a lot more common. These aren't just wandering patrols you can go stealth and wait for them to pass, they are locked into you and are going where you are and if you move they'll follow. They're guaranteed if you release a hostage and have to take the hostage somewhere, and if you happen to release two hostages you get two ambushes.
And now, in CoV (and I assume it's only a matter of time for CoH). You get attack waves where the waves are time based, rather than the next wave spawning after the last wave is defeated. Contrary to everything Jack Emmert has said, it's now COMMON to be fighting two spawns at once that simply cannot be pulled apart because they're targetted on you. If your character cannot take down spawns quickly, it's easy to find yourself facing four or five spawns.
But hey, Jack's happy with the limits and happy with the ambushes, so it's all good, right?
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
OMG, they are nerfing longbow...
Last night, I had a Longbow Warden one-shot my 38 Nin/Nin Stalker. All of my toggles were up at the time. When I told my group what had happened, they didn't believe me at first. So I scrolled back a ways to see the damage -- it was over 1000 points (I only have like 850 or so hp).
Now granted, the mob was a couple of levels higher than me, and I have no real damage resistance. But that's just sick.
-Haldur
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Last night, I had a Longbow Warden one-shot my 38 Nin/Nin Stalker. All of my toggles were up at the time. When I told my group what had happened, they didn't believe me at first. So I scrolled back a ways to see the damage -- it was over 1000 points (I only have like 850 or so hp).
Now granted, the mob was a couple of levels higher than me, and I have no real damage resistance. But that's just sick.
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It really gets to some of the core design issues with mobs in this game. Mobs are constantly being "upgraded" with new powers, I suppose in some drive to provide "challenge". But there are powers the characters have that critters should just never get. The 7+ Brawl Index attacks on a bosses and LTs are prime examples. These attacks don't add challenge, they just make players dead. There are extremely limited options for stopping a boss from actually executing attacks, and attacks like this can flat out anhillate 4/5ths of the ATs in this game on the basis of raw HP and damage mitigation.
Mez powers are another example of the same thing.
Is it any wonder everyone who pushed the envelope at all went for "max damage right away" or "longest mez as often as possible" slotting? We still do, in the limits ED puts on us. And the reason is that it's a survival mechanism. It's like some perverse arms race. But its one where the Devs actually produce all the weapons, and we can only have what they give us. They can give their guys anything they want. That's what I see Longbow bosses as. They give them some of the best toys we have, plus boss-level mez resists, boss HP, boss damage scale, and the inherent "toggleless" version of powers. I actually like the idea of Longbow (especially the variety among bosses), but IMO their implementation is over the top. Little or no attention appears to have been given to the actual level of power some of them possess. Sometimes I think an even level Longbow boss should con red.
I should point out here that I don't dislike hard foes. I have had my [censored] handed to me many times by Night Widows, and I like them. They don't win because they do 1000 points of damage. They win because they use -perception powers, toss in some soft mezzing, and are themselves exceptionally hard to mez (and that's rough on a Dominator, let me tell you). That's the right direction - not giving a mob an auto mez power or letting its opening move be trans-snipe-level damage with a mez stacked on just to insult the squishies.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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The mag 100 Stun is being replaced with a more standard stun (duration based, normal magnitude.)
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Thank you very much.
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Yeah, great for the melees, worse for those without status protection.
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This is better for everyone, how the hell is it worse for you if the meleers on your team are no longer getting toggle-dropped?
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4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
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I'm going to be blunt here.
Do the people who come up with this stuff know how to balance games?
I'm serious.
I'm going to give you an example from a game system lots and lots of people are famliar with: Dungeons and Dragons. D&D is balanced on the idea of players making a certain income by facing foes of certain threat ratings roughly matched to their own team's rating. Part and parcel of the income won by characters is the idea that they will spend it on equipment. That ability to have equipment is factored into the threat rating of foes tossed at the PCs. It is understood that if you have level 10 D&D characters with no magic weapons or magic armor that they are very likely underpowered to face Challenge Rating 10 foes, because those foes will assume characters who bought such things by then.
CoH and CoV are no different. Foes are balanced in damage dealt per blow, HP, and mez capability on the assumption that heroes will have key powers (and will have lots of slots in them!). Melee heroes are given armors, and Critter melee damage is very high to balance it. Other crucial, non-armor toggles that can be expected of level 35+ heroes are ones that affect accuracy or prevent mezzing.
Toggle dropping removes these assumed capabilities from our characters. This means that the character is put in a state that imbalances the level of threat they can handle - they can no longer deal with threats appropriate to their level. Yet toggle dropping foes do not, in general, deal less damage, and certainly no allied critters they are in a group with do so. They lower the effective level of the player's character but have no compensating reduction of their own.
Stop with the PvE negation of our powers. As implemented it is blatant poor game balance in the favor of the critters. Powers are the only reward we get in this game. It is tiresome and frustrating for cancellation of them to be more than an occasional occurence.
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the same thing can be said about PVP... once some toggles go down you are basically dead in many cases... same thing with being held in a block of ice... once you are held its all over but the dying.. thats why Im getting bored with PVP here...its nothing but trying not to get mezzed.