Longbow are flat out overpowered.
By
Arc_Salvo,
Posted on: 2005-12-17 12:35 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I actually find much them easier to fight than many other mob types until you start getting spec ops anyway. Freak show for example with meat doctors are much tougher.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
Ok, I have a major complaint about those Longbow SOB's.
I am a level 14 stalker, Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu. I was going through a Longbow mish when I ran into a yellow Longbow Nullifier. Now, here's the kicker. Even without my "Build Up" ability, which doubles my accuracy and damage, I can normally one-shot an orange lieutenant. So I'm thinking, "Meh, this guy is cheese". I pull up my hide ability, sneak up to him, pull of a PERFECT assassin strike, and I only take down one....freakin'...HALF of his health! Then, to quote Manticore, "He then proceeded to beat me into something resembling raw Spaghetti-O's". I concur, those Longbows are bloody overpowered.
I think the problem isn't them in small groups (i.e. small team missions,) it's that when you have a team of 6-8, the level of difficutly ramps up a lot steeper than what we are used to with other foe groups. I mean, letp's face it- if I were looking at a group of 10 council at level 40, and 10 longbow at level 40... i"m taking the council 6 ways till Sunday! But lower that amount to say 3-5 foes in the spawn... then really they are equal on challenge.
Arachnos tends to do the same thing.
I do think having multiple spec ops and nullifers in groups is a bit much and SHOULD be looked at, regardless of "XP incentive." Frankly, a 10% boost in XP (I'm guessing) just isn't worth the risk.
Also, another problem is that they are the only foe group in either game (IMO) that suddenly is badd-asss. They are pretty crappy for 38 levels and easy to take down. Then at 39+ they suddenly have their crap together and are very tough to deal with. This is against what we are all used to. Any foe group that we're accustomed to throughout our villain/hero career never had a dramatic jump like that. Usually, the groups slowly scale like you do (COuncil,) or you get a whole new, fresh group to deal with (Rikti, Malta Carnies.)
Needless to say, the Longbow were the first thing to humble my 40 brute in quite sometime. I felt like a scrapper who forgot to turn on his toggles ad accidentally closed his power tray in the heat of battle.
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All these reasons are why they are worth more XP than normal.
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Sounds like its time to implement a new power that everyone has and almost no one knows how to (or cares to) use.
STRATEGY : Mind Power- end cost = 0, recharge = slow, damage = extreme if used properly, dependents = all team members (biggest DeBuff here)
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So, devs, any reason that these guys are so absurdly powerful, and Arachnos is so very weak?
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Arachnos is WEAK?
Honestly, I find them as annoying as Longbows, since they hit me a lot more often than they should (obviously, something is buffing them up).
I don't underestimate either type, having fought arachnos both as villains and heroes, and having fought longbows as a villain.
Longbow is tough, and can be an enjoyable fight...until the level 40+ spec ops show up to the party - then it just gets *stupid*.
There are counters to almost anything in the game...defenses against almost anything...
As far as I know, there is no defense against a large-AoE that *FULLY* drains the endurance of anything inside. BY A MINION! I've seen 3 and 4 of 'em in a single spawn with large teams...
They seriously need to be restricted/nerfed...something - let 'em keep the attack at a 50% drain...only one per spawn...make them rare, something!
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This is a gross exaggeration. They don't start getting the flamethrowers till later levels including the eagles. Then the spec ops come in at an even higher level. This is about equivalent to most of the other mobs in the game.
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He means they all look alike 
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no i meant that there is absolutly no variety. they are stagnant, stale, uniform.
Doing them solo you get the exact same spawn. Flamethrowerm Eagle, Rifleman, Spec-Ops. then 5 feeet away is the same spawn and so on and so on and so on. Only grouped do you get to mix thigs up with a nullifier thrown in then a warden here and there.
I played CoH over the weekend and was doing a Crey series. They have maybe 10 templayes to choose from. Every mob group moving through the missions were varied. You walk into a long bow nission and there is no question about what you will face.
They are just pretty dull. Getting a mission from thenm at level 15 is the same as getting one at 35. Sure in the 30s they all get grenades and the spec-ops starts a little sapping but its still the exact same grouping.
I mean atleast in CoT they switch out the ThornCasters, fire casters then earth then air.
I dont just think they are easy, I think they are boring.
I have seem teams have a rough time withthem though. Thats usually because the team doesnt coordinate their attacks and they all attack a differnt Mob and aggro the entire group or pull 2-3 groups at once. One time no one would listen to me to take out the Nulliferes first
Longbow and other difficult mobs have saved the game for me. Do not nerf them please.
by difficult, I do not mean CoT. They're just stupid. There's nothing difficult or easy about being held and unable to move or act.
I like longbow because they're offensively potent, and I have to be awake to fight them sometimes (not usually).
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The worst for me so far has been those times that I've met a Spines Warden. These guys, along with other targets make my life miserable. They've got a PBAoE that's on from the moment they spawn. What's a Stalker supposed to do?
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Actually what a Stalker is supposed to do is eat 4 luck an hope for the best. Usually this will prevent you from getting hit long enough to use your AS.
You have to Plan you strageties and use all the tricks in your bag. There is always a way. You can't use the same attack plan for every fight. Not if you want to be successful anyway.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
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I really dont have a problem with Longbow my self. They are hard, yes, but they are a challenge and can be fun.
If anything, Scrapyarders suck more than anything Iv faced so far..... I just dont understand why a bunch of angry miners hurt so much & are so powerfull... 
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Just have to add that I agree with your points here.
I give Scrapyarders extra caution because of Demolitionists.
Longbow? Challenging but not where as nasty as dynamite.
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All these reasons are why they are worth more XP than normal.
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But surely, when you hit level 40 you don't get xp anymore (until lev 50 boost arrives)
I must say while solo I do avoid Longbow like the plague I really don't want to see them toned down too much. IMO they are really fun to fight in a good team as they are now and really only seem overpowered when I fight them solo.
"I think I'm cute. I've got gold medals.
I've got the moves that make them all tap out.
The Angle Slam, the Ankle Lock.
Marty Jannetty...still can't walk.
I'm just the sexy Kurt.
I'll make your ankle hurt.
I'm just the sexy Kurt.
I'll make your ankle hurt."
Kurt Angle
So, Positron, can you at least confirm (or have tested) that the Longbow Nullifier Disruption Field Grenade for very high level Longbow Nullifiers (lvl 38+, might even be 40+ only) is currently bugged? I don't have a problem with Longbow per se -- they are hard, but not impossible -- but the fact that those Nullifiers can hold Brutes & Stalkers through their Status Protection (even when stacked with other forms of Status Protection effects) with *one* application of a power that has a completely different function than holding AND is AoE on top of that, is just ridiculous.
You know, at 35 (fighting 37s and 38s) Longbow isn't too bad (they apparently don't get the nasty tricks until 40), but CoT are murder. I'm fighting spawns with 3 or 4 Earth Thorn casters and if I've forgotton to rebubble my minions the ETCs alone can kill them off with 3 or 4 of those ranged AoE footstomp things they do.
Plus, everything that's not an Earth Thorn is a Spectral Demon Lord, Behemoth, or a Guide. Ok, the Guides are still pretty weak, but the Spectral Demon Lords still have Chill of the Night and Behemoths lauch fireballs that just add onto the damage the Earth Thorns are doing. It's brutal fighting in Orenbenga because your minions are always bunched up and all of those AoEs destroy them in no time.
Fortunatly Insulation and Dispersion do a pretty good job of making those attacks miss, but if I forget to rebubble the minions during the mission I'll usually lose at least the drones before I even realize it.
Quicksand is still evil.
I can put up with most of their powers. Even the end drain (malta had more than one sapper per team spawn when I originally fought them and longbow don't seem to use their -end as often as sappers did) or ignite patches (though it's a big part of why villains are automatically on the losing side in siren's call, but it's only the fear effect of all dot patches on my mm henchmen that really irks me).
But the one thing that I really want to see changed is the 1 second hold that ignores my brute's mez protection. I spent 50 levels on my first CoH character as a defender, getting mezzed every other fight and gaining all of the you've-become-adept-at-missing-all-the-action badges. It got really tiresome and I thought for CoV I'd go with a mezz protected char. And hey, I still get mezzed very occasionally when lots of mobs stack their effects. But to have a single mob - and not even an elite boss or av - just punch straight through it like it's not even there is just tedious in the extreme.
I'd also agree with the sentiment that mob effects ought to run under the same rules and magnitudes as our powers (smoke grenades meaning we can't target anything at all, the extent of the debuff on warden Lingering Radiation, etc).
At this point I'm wonder what the benifiet of taking my mez protection is. I might as well just run break frees at this point. If a player got an attack like they got it would be gone in a week.
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Carnie Ring Mistresses pwnzzz all.
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I had a big [censored] moment when running into just a Lt-class Ring Mistress during my Aura mission. [censored] is up with giving them a power that not only drains your health and endurance, but also kills your recovery and regen for over a minute? 
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Carnie Ring Mistresses pwnzzz all.
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I had a big [censored] moment when running into just a Lt-class Ring Mistress during my Aura mission. [censored] is up with giving them a power that not only drains your health and endurance, but also kills your recovery and regen for over a minute?
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Yeah, that seems to be about what it does. Doesn't miss either.
My brute just tries to take her +0 self down ASAP, use all inspirations.
Still here, even after all this time!
With a balanced team I havn't had troubles with them yet, but when im solo they eat me alive.
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By far the most important part of this is that longbow are out right NOT fun to play against.
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Longbow are plain monotonous. Everyone has the same uniform, almost always the same weapons except for the rare Warden, some of which are overpowered . Not to mention that they are overused, nearly every contact from level 25 to 35 gives Longbow missions over and over. Why is Longbow so special? Where are the Wyvern and Legacy Chain story arcs in the 25-35 range?
I'd rather run Tsoo missions now just to get some variety after a dozen Longbow missions. Problem now is finding Tsoo missions.
I think the Longbow at 40 and with a large team are pretty painful to play. I think the whole toggle dropping, endurance draining, and -perception type powers are just miserable to play against.
I think there is a real flaw in the whole mechanism of toggle dropping. They should never have given so much status protection to brutes / scrappers / tankers / stalkers .... but at the same time... being held / disotiented shouldn't cause toggles to drop. Being held is bad; being held and taking 4 times the amount of damage is a whole seperate scale of bad.
The mechanic should be something like: applying a hold or a stun to someone who is already held/stunned should have a (good) chance of dropping a toggle.
and endurance drains should be much smaller... none of this "totally drain a bar of endurance" power.
and -perception... you should always be able to see things in melee range!
Nerva Spectral Lord (CoT Lieutenant) >> ALL
Nerva Spectral Lord >> ALL
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A few folks have no problem with them.
I imagine they will when they are 40, and every group having a longbow spec ops who can drain your entire endurance bar wiht a single grenade that doesn't miss often.
Oh, I think they won't like it much anymore.
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Not only will it drain your entire endurance bar, it drains everyone else thats caught in the blast. Dark armor offers a bit of endo drain resistance and each emp blast drains at least 50%, if you happen to have less then 50% endo at the time, all toggles instantly drop. Part that really erks me is if i'm hit by a webgrenade and the spec ops is up on one of the containers you see in the warehouse maps, webgrenades keep you from jumping or flying.
100% endo drain on an area blast attack seems to be a bit over the top, it also reduces recovery rate.
Uh . . . yeah. I 'd like to revise my opinion please.
Did a Warburg mission with a team of myself(em/stone brute), an ice/cold corruptor, a ninja/ninja stalker, and a ninja/dark mastermind.
The longbow we were fighting were 40s mostly.
Yeah . . I was mostly lowered to the duty of granite tauntbot.
I was usually just running around in granite, then turning on rooted for the extra mez protection and the end drain protection.
I would use taunt, and group would attack me (obviously). If there was one nullifer, not really a big deal. One certainly couldn't knock through the stacked mez protection of rooted/granite.
Now, two or three could lol. I think their mez is uber high mag and really short term. Some sort of ghetto toggle drop. I would get my toggles knocked off, and Held would appear under my information on the top right of the screen. Only for about two or three seconds though. Then I was free to run away.
Also nullifiers have some sort of sonic debuffer. Because of tough/granite/stone skin, I currently have about 60% resist to S/L. They launch the device like a grenade its a placed AOE like the triage beacon. So a number of times, I would have to taunt, wait, and once they launched the debuffer, tp to a different area. Personally, I think that the thing debuffs a minimum of 40%. I was losing health really quickly lol.
So anyway, while the pre 40 longbow are pretty easy, I don't think I'll be fighting 40+ longbow in groups of more than three . . .ever.
Soloing they are pretty easy, even duos and teams of three.
But my teammates died multiple times, and I almost died on a number of occasions. This was all in one mission.
So, my opinion that the 40+ longbow are the most difficult group. Ever.