Longbow are flat out overpowered.
By
Arc_Salvo,
Posted on: 2005-12-17 12:35 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I haven't found longbow particularly hard, although I do think they are among the tougher groups out there. As far as flamethrowers are concerned, my brute has little trouble with them but I do agree that executing flamethrower and ignite in a matter of couple of seconds is a bit strange, especially considering that flamethrower suppose to have activation of almost 4 seconds. Give'em some time in between, maybe have them throw a fire cage or something, or even just run up, punch them run back and throw ignite.
I do find longbow bosses particularly challenging, especially in large groups. The radiation and sonic bosses are particularly tough, as their debuffs are apparently ignoring the rules of ED 
- couple of shots from them and my brute becomes as squishy as a blaster. We had several team wipeouts when two large spawns were close enough to have the bosses "cooperate" with each other - although to be honest in most cases it tooks us couple of team wipes before we actually stopped and decided to come up with a strategy first .
To address Posi's response - like others have said, if the risk isn't fun then bigger rewards aren't gonna help.
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Geez, where are you finding these wimpy Longbow? The ones I've fought have sonic debuffers, sappers, bosses that summon Phantasms or Singularities, and so many stuns that if you lack mez protection you might as well just read a book for the duration of each fight.
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Not to mention bosses that stun through Brute status protections and radiation wardens that can totally debuff your resistances to nothing with radiation sickness.
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[censored] is up with this forum?
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Yes, I've made several posts and they all seem to have gone straight to /dev/null.
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Btw, the worst Longbow "attack" is that slow debuff. Is it Lingering Radiation? Yeah, that could be it. My god man, there's just nothing like just standing there while every single attack in your arsenal is just a little pinprick. And it seem to last a bloody long time. There is no inspiration to cure slow.
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Are you an AT with mez protection? If so, then that effect is likely from a Spec-Ops Web Grenade. One of them packs a hurt to your recharge, and two of them are deadly.
Of course, trying to fight a Longbow Warden who uses LR as well as a couple Spec-Ops? I can't decide which to AS first, since no matter what I do, I'm going to be debuffed.
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Every mission and every spawn in every mission is exactly the same. From level 2-40.
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This is a gross exaggeration. They don't start getting the flamethrowers till later levels including the eagles. Then the spec ops come in at an even higher level. This is about equivalent to most of the other mobs in the game.
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Whaa? Flamethrowers start pretty early on. I've seen them below 20 for sure, and possibly before 10. Spec Ops I think are 20+.
In general though, I do find Longbow boring as hell to fight. Their design, powers, etc, just dont excite me at all. Which is too bad since they're the most common hero group we get to fight. I wish they used the Legacy Chain more.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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I guess it depends on what you're playing. I got to 40th with my stalker, solo'ing missions against Longbow in Warburg. I thought they were pretty damn easy even on the 4th diff setting. Longbow is easy because...
- No caltrops
- No debuffing powers
- No pet summoning
- No particular resistances to anything
- No healing other than some bosses
- No holds, imob, or sleep other than the rare stun or web gernade
- No phase shifting or teleporting
- No self rez'ing
Hmm, maybe I'm missing something, but I think they're the easiest fraction in the game at all levels. Arachnos are way more dangerous, especially the Crab Tankers that have Lethal Resistance. You can AS them with your claws, but that just seems to make them mad.
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I see the light now.People are buying accounts on Ebay.
There is noway in h e ll that this guy is playing the same game im playing.
I wish we could kick this guy off the forums 
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For the love of Villains and Heroes everywhere, please do NOT nerf the mobs! You already nerfed the players too much, when you should have just made the mobs harder to begin with. Don't cater the whiners of "he beat me up!" anymore. If anything, un-nerf us and make the mobs harder.
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I agree 100%
I dont have a huge problem with them either, albeit im only level 28 brute. Only difference really notice so far is that they ehave far more HP then most mobs their level, its almost like fighting a +1 on the hp scale.
Hehe, I remember after fighting Longbow for a solid day (god was I sick of them), then I switched to a council Newspaper Mish. I kept thinking I was using Enrages or something, because man they fell *a lot* quicker. Oh, do Longbow have a canny resistance to Smashing damage? Maybe that's the problem.
I'm guessing at 30 they really jump out and become nasty.
Personally (as a /inv brute) I get hurt more by Arachnos troops, since a lot of their mobs are both very resistant to Smashing damage, and have Energy/Negative Energy attacks, along with some Psi i beleive from the Fortunatas. While the longbow only really have one non-Smashing/Lethal attacks (at this level) that I notice, which is the Flamethrowers
I just wish every contact within lvl 25-30 or so didn't give me Longbow missions, im sooo sick of killing the people in the white and red pajamas...
Also, as far as Heroes and Arachnos troops.. At least they have a dozen differnt outlets for quests, and only get Arachnos troops in those 5-minute PvP missions.
Slighty off topic here, but did anyone ever do that mission arc with the Prototype Nullifier gun? You steal it from Longbow, then go fight some FreakShow and Sky Raiders (i think) with it. The gun itself drains all their end, and I think dropped all their toggles as well. Kind of a hint at the Longbow's twisted future hehe.
I usually play a brute... I've simply had to learn ways to deal with them... build fury on the weaker ones, then enter combat with the warden with a nearly-full bar, using knockout blow, then my other attacks. With super-strength, I am usually able to chain knockdown enough to prevent a bulk of their attacks.
Longbow, at times, presents a decent challenge. I feel satisfied when I defeat them... if they were easy to walk over all the time, then what would be the use of fighting them?
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I guess it depends on what you're playing. I got to 40th with my stalker, solo'ing missions against Longbow in Warburg. I thought they were pretty damn easy even on the 4th diff setting. Longbow is easy because...
- No particular resistances to anything
- No holds, imob, or sleep other than the rare stun or web gernade
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Not that I mind Longbow being so nasty at the later levels, but these two struck me as odd things to point out. Longbow seem to have a lot more resistance to lethal attacks in any case, because my blade stalker has a lot more trouble taking them down in one go.
As for 'a rare web grenade', are you kidding me? :P Spec-Ops open with them, and if there's two in a group, that means you can't fly away, you'll be slowed, and you'll only get a few attacks in because they aren't recharging any time soon.
Redundant Post thanks to time eddies in forumspace.
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I guess it depends on what you're playing. I got to 40th with my stalker, solo'ing missions against Longbow in Warburg. I thought they were pretty damn easy even on the 4th diff setting. Longbow is easy because...
- No caltrops
- No debuffing powers
- No pet summoning
- No particular resistances to anything
- No healing other than some bosses
- No holds, imob, or sleep other than the rare stun or web gernade
- No phase shifting or teleporting
- No self rez'ing
Hmm, maybe I'm missing something, but I think they're the easiest fraction in the game at all levels. Arachnos are way more dangerous, especially the Crab Tankers that have Lethal Resistance. You can AS them with your claws, but that just seems to make them mad.
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This is my experience as well. I had no idea that Longbow were "overpowered". I've taken them out, solo and in groups, with my Corruptor and MM.
Actually, I always considered them the easy group, like the Council over in CoH. Whenever I'm not in the mood for a big challenge like, say, CoT, I pick a mission that should go smoothly, like Longbow.
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I've always thought the same thing... I always thought they were the easiest group of them all...
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ninjas freak the mighty Hell out when set on fire
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I can imagine this once Zoida(ninja/FF) reaches the proper level for this stuff..
Foo> OH MY GOD HEEELP MMEEEEE!
Zoida> DAMNIT FOO! You are summoned from myst! You can't die! I will just resummon you!
Foo> but it BUUUUUUUUURN! IT BUUUUUUUURNS! ::Flops onto a second spawn.::
Zodia> ::Sigh::
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Have an AoE power that creates a burn patch for everything it hits. Villain, HENCHMEN, ForceField Generator, whatever. They can effectively stack infinite burn patches.
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That's a very silly power for a minion that spawns in multiples to have. I even find it odd that my assault bot can do it and there's only one of him.
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-At level 40 gain an AoE hold that can punch its way through a Brutes protection. Thats a bit rediculous.
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Even a weak AoE hold is enough to be challenging in big teams, this is way too much.
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If I recall correctly, Longbow are worth 10% more XP than usual. Compare that to the Freakshow, who are substantially weaker and are worth 15% more than usual. All this, of course, pales before the Fake Nemesis bosses, who are worth a staggering 50% more than they should be. Perhaps some of these XP things need to be reworked a bit for varying challenge.
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Freaks are nasty, but at least your defence powers work against them, you dont get end drained and held by ranged AoEs.
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Btw, someone posted about Night Widows and their Smoke Grenades, and I agree that they're ridiculous. I've been on teams vs them, and they have essentially made me unable to do anything at all, because there's nothing to target. It might as well be a hold. Funny, SG for a Blaster doesn't do that....
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I hate powers that are vastly different when NPCs use them. If 7 blasters shoot SG at a group of foes, and the 8th blaster stands next to them and launches SG.... he dies.
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And the Energy Melee Wardens can stun through a Brutes status shields like they aren't even turned on.
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If fighting statues isn't fun, why would being a (slowly walking disoriented) statue be fun? Some people play melee chars only for the status protection.
I'm going to have to jump into the "not overpowered" wagon.
As my brute I've never been mezzed by an energy melee warden boss. The lingering radiation does hurt as it kills my recharge and regen rate. The warden boss that came closest to killing me was a grav/kin warden. For that one I had to use earths embrace and about 10 respites. I don't call that so much overpowered as I do challenging.
All of this is on the 'Ruthless' setting, I believe which is the equivelent to 'Unyielding'. When I was DOs in Bloody Bay, I was on vicious.
Granted I do have some advantages, such as I tp in and total focus the boss. But then he wanders away flying while I'm rooted, so that's not too much of an advantage.
I can also take on longbow on vicious with my corruptor without to much of a hassle.
My personal opinion is leave them as they are, I enjoy the extra xp.
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Ignite isn't autohit. It has a higher base accuracy than Flamethrower, but it isn't autohit. Say, about 5% higher or so.
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Doesn't flamethrower already have increased accuracy? I know it does for other mobs.
I closed the gap between Lv39 and Lv40 mostly soloing Warburg missions on Ruthless with my DM/EA brute. I can concur with some of this, but I don't really thing Longbow needs a flat-out nerf. Hell, due to the extra EXP they give it made that grind much quicker.
But I do think the Spec-Ops, at least, need to be toned down in some way. The only reason we aren't hearing more of this is because most players haven't come across Lv40 Longbow yet, I imagine there'll be more complains in the future once the level cap is raised. While I don't have a problem with the other minions (nor the Nullifiers and Wardens, really) the Spec-Ops are a hassle. At the very least, it'd be great if either the END drain by the EMP grenade was toned down a bit, or they were forced to only spawn one per group, like Malta Sappers.
Fighting two or three per group is trickey, but they're especially bad when they spawn with bosses. If you can't take them out before you get blasted with an EMP Grenade you're pretty much dead.
I also think the devs should look at how to make enemies harder without always giving them a massive END-drain. Sappers, Ring Mistresses, and now Spec-Ops are all some of the trickiest enemies in the game to solo, all for the same reason. It'd be nice if we could find more challenges for different reasons, instead of the same routine of 'Oh great, another END-drainer'.
Longbow are worth more xp eh? Mua ha ha ha *cough*
They are tough, that is why I like them. Ignore the whiners...
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I've gone against Longbow solo and in a group with my Stalker. Now mind you, he's only 31 at this point, but I'd think I can still toss my two cents in.
I've yet to see the burn patches, and Spec Ops are a relatively new addition to the force. I'd guess I've seen 'em for the last five levels or so. Maybe I'm just special or something, but as a Ninja/Ninja, just about anything with stealth is a joke. Yeah, you turn that on. You look like me now. Which is to say, I can still stab you.
The only exception to this is the Night Widows with smoke bombs- those can still hide everything from me. But then I pop a yellow, and the world turns normal again. Needless to say, Night Widows are one of my top choices for assassination.
I dislike facing Longbow because they have Smashing/Lethal resistance, which I suppose is fair. How long have people complained that Smashing/Lethal is the most common resistance pair in the game? Facing Longbow, it means I have to take long to drop a target, which can be a problem in bigger spawns. But I have that issue against Freakshow, too.
The worst for me so far has been those times that I've met a Spines Warden. These guys, along with other targets make my life miserable. They've got a PBAoE that's on from the moment they spawn. What's a Stalker supposed to do? Yes, they're bosses. Yes, I should have a team. But then... what? I can't AS. Placate does nothing- it's a PBAoE, he's just going to hit me anyways. So.. I should pretend I'm a Scrapper? Thanks, I learned that lesson in Breakout- I'm not a Scrapper. Especially not going up against a Melee Boss.
Now, conversely to this, I've taken down two Wardens at once. Sounds impressive, right? Well, first off they were both green. So we can throw that 'impressive' thing out the window. They were in the same Spawn, in Nerva. I figured I could AS and scrap at least one, Placate the other and hightail it, then repeat. Didn't work that way. I found out real fast that one was a Spines/Invul who for some reason didn't have the PBAoE. He was beating the tar out of me pretty well with that one attack, don't know it- you leap up in the air, do a few forward rolls, then land. He was a nasty fight on his lonesome. But what was worse was the other one was an Emp/Psy. I don't know what was going on there, but I tell you this- her endurance was not dropping and she was spamming AoE and targeted heals while using Psychic Lance to try and hit me. I did drop them, but it cost me a lot of greens and blues to do it.
But now that I've rambled on for pages here, lemme say this: Longbow aren't the guys I've hated the most. Yeah, that's right. These guys annoy me, they hurt me, they can make my AT superfluous. But they're not at the top of my most-hated list. There's another group that's consistently elicited groans of resignation from the teams I've been on, gotten people in my SG to avoid certain contacts altogether, and generally cost me more debt than anyone else- which is pretty impressive given they only show up on one Island. Some of you can probably guess who they are.
Scrapyarders
These are the guys I truly, truly hate- and I've seen few Longbow missions that come close to comparing. Yes, I've outleveled them with my Stalker, and I can off them like nothing now. But they hurt when I was facing them, blue or higher.
Enraged Miners aren't so bad, no. They just do huge damage to you with every attack. Die quick? Yeah, they're not too special. But you get a couple of them on you or a henchman and you're in for a serious headache.
Demolitionists- now these are the reliably nasty ones that'll really make that dark purple bar show up. Ranged Burn patches with a fast recharge, knockback, big damage. Then you get in melee... and they're hitting you with a jackhammer for a chain of double-digit damage. You can't afford to run, you can't afford to stay- and they'll show up in groups.
Foremen are nearly as bad as the Demolitionists- at least they aren't so big on the ranged death. Yes, they hurl boulders, and they have dynamite too. But that's not nearly as bad- so long as you stay out of melee. I've seen Foremen out-damage Brutes that were one-shotting Miners. And for added fun, they get Assault.
Even when I was 26 and facing -2s while going against Scrapyard's Ghost, I've been KO'd by these guys. The Demos will team up and next thing you know, there's a half-dozen Burn patches laid down and your comp's lagging, popping up red numbers over your head before the dynamite hits a couple seconds later.
Yeah, I have issues with Longbow. But I tell you this- I'd much rather face them than see Scrapyarders again.
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This is my experience as well. I had no idea that Longbow were "overpowered". I've taken them out, solo and in groups, with my Corruptor and MM.
Actually, I always considered them the easy group, like the Council over in CoH. Whenever I'm not in the mood for a big challenge like, say, CoT, I pick a mission that should go smoothly, like Longbow.
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agreed - this has been my experience as well - whether playing with my stalker, brute or MM
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Btw, the worst Longbow "attack" is that slow debuff. Is it Lingering Radiation? Yeah, that could be it. My god man, there's just nothing like just standing there while every single attack in your arsenal is just a little pinprick. And it seem to last a bloody long time. There is no inspiration to cure slow.
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Which is a big reason why Hasten is "required" for me. I did the Moonfire TF with fire tank without hasten once. That mission with all galaxies really sucked because I was literally standing there not able to do anything except be a meatshield, until I died because my heal wasn't recharging, taunt wasn't recharging so healer was busy trying to keep team alive as well as the tank. Needless to say team wipe and I soon did respec to pick up hasten. Only after that did I make Hasten a requirement on most of my toons. Slow effects are insane and no amount of recharges in power will help. Psionic attacks like Night Widow bosses are another one.
Reading through this thread, it looks like most people are saying that Longbow aren't bad when solo, but suck in large groups. The majority of that is because of either AoE attacks that wipe pets, or End drain.
The AoE attacks are just anti-Mastermind tactics, and I don't see that changing. Everyone has their worst enemy.
The End drainers spawing multiples per group - that I can see changing. Malta used to spawn multiple sappers, too, but enough people let the Devs know that it was no fun, and they changed it. I hope the same is done for 40+ Longbow.
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Not when stuck in animation. Full auto has a six second long animation. Also note that ninjas freak the mighty Hell out when set on fire and do a lovely job running all over the place and aggroing extra spawns. Yeah, set the ninjas in passive? Well, when they're attacking something irregardless of disposition they'll react to the fear in the fire patches.
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Have you tried pulling them far enough away so that the ninjas don't aggro anything regardless of how far they run?
Ninjas freak out over any DoT...I've seen mine do some very stupid things around Tsoo caltrops...it doesn't help that they have no concept of "go AROUND the bad ouchy things, not through them."
When the Nullifiers start using the drop AoE resistance debuffs...man do those attacks start hurting >_<
I hate the end drain...I hate that Wardens so rarely spawn just one to a group and that they use powers that only AVs used in CoH (i.e. Lingering Radiation). They are always good mixes of CoH powersets/ATs too.
But, in all honesty, now that I have either Acrobatics or Hover on most of my characters, the Knockback isn't that bad. Sucks that I had to put off a good power on my ice/dark to get Acrobatics because I was just so sick and tired of the KB.
The Acc and Perception debuffs of the Ghost Widows are horrible though...and you can't hold the fracking things. At least you can hold Spec Ops and Nullifiers. I have had them literally make whole mobs disappear, even with a teammate running Tactics. Two Smoke Nades and I can't hit a darn thing, even though everything is two-slotted with Acc SOs and the teammate with Tactics.
Freaked me out the first time everything disappeared...had it happen fighting the Wyvern Elite Boss in the respec trial. I think he used Flash Arrow on our team or something...evil.
"A good Defender is the battle hardened Corpsman who will kill a Nazi with a tongue depressor while putting a splint on your leg, then hand you a fresh clip of ammo." ~Jock_Thompson
Repeat Offenders, TNT Profile, My little hero
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This is a gross exaggeration. They don't start getting the flamethrowers till later levels including the eagles. Then the spec ops come in at an even higher level. This is about equivalent to most of the other mobs in the game.
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He means they all look alike 
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Since as usually, only people that have a problem post, I thought I'd jump in and say that I haven't had any problems with longbow. I fight them at highest difficulty with my Ninja/Dark MM. Usually with very few or no deaths from my henchmen. And, I can't even remember the last time the managed to actually defeat me. And yes, they are 40+.
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I'd also like to note that Soloing longbow is a [censored] cakewalk. On teams they're much harder, due to having multiple spec ops, more bosses, and the Nullifiers. My MM has longbow as a cakewalk when solo. Big deal. Soloing is easy.