Longbow are flat out overpowered.
By
Arc_Salvo,
Posted on: 2005-12-17 12:35 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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1) Longbow have an XP Bonus
2) Flamethrower: The Multiple Burn Patches is a bug. I've put it on my list of things to fix.
3) Spec Ops are limited to 1 per spawn point for generic spawns. There may be specific encounter groups designed with more than one, however.
4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
5) Arachnos is fairly tough, too -- especially if there are Fortunata's around.
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You may want to check on Crey Plasma Scientists version of flamethrower as well. It seems they just let loose forever.
-Zilania
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4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
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So . . . this is effectively just a toggle drop power? Unless I'm missing something?
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4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
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So that is a rather fancy way of saying that it will drop all your toggles...
Wasn't there enough aggro drawn over the other PvE toggle dropping mob to help show how bad this is?
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1) Longbow have an XP Bonus
2) Flamethrower: The Multiple Burn Patches is a bug. I've put it on my list of things to fix.
3) Spec Ops are limited to 1 per spawn point for generic spawns. There may be specific encounter groups designed with more than one, however.
4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
5) Arachnos is fairly tough, too -- especially if there are Fortunata's around.
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What about the bug with badge need to get Kristof Jaeger as a contact? Any idea when a fix will come for this?
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1) Longbow have an XP Bonus
2) Flamethrower: The Multiple Burn Patches is a bug. I've put it on my list of things to fix.
3) Spec Ops are limited to 1 per spawn point for generic spawns. There may be specific encounter groups designed with more than one, however.
4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
5) Arachnos is fairly tough, too -- especially if there are Fortunata's around.
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The duration of an unresistable hold really doesn't matter.
Toggle dropping is DEATH to meleers. First, with the exception of SR, that leaves you completely vulnerable to any other hold that comes your way (or indeed may still be in effect on you but resisted because of your power). Second, after I5, toggles are what keeps you alive and for the most part toggles have long recharge times, so you're essentially standing there in your skivvies in front of opponents that are supposed to represent a significant challenge to you in full armor.
And that's been given to an opponent that can attack from stealth. You know, the thing taken from players in I3. At least with sappers you can see them coming.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second.
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This sounds like fancy-speak for "Toggle dropping in PvE" to me too. Renaming it doesn't make it any less annoying.
I think the point here is that you guys regret the current way that status protection works. In your attempts to provide some level of danger to Tankers and Scrappers before I5 and I6, you have made the high end game LOADED with status effects, to the point that playing any build without status protection is just a pain. That still didn't do anything, so you lowered status protection for melee types. And now that we are actually facing enemies with a good chance of killing us because of the defensive reductions in I5 and I6, you are trying to pass toggle dropping on us when it's not necessary.
If you really want to see the melee types get affected by status effects, how about you do this instead:
1) Add Status Effect Suppression to PvE for players. So if you get Held, Slept, Disoriented, Immobilized, or Knocked Back, you can't be affected by any status effect for 10 seconds from the time that it wears off, or 30 seconds if the effect is of the same type. Tweak time amounts as appropriate based on player testing.
2) Make toggles (all toggles) not shut off when held, slept, or disoriented, but instead be suppressed while the effect is on, so that we don't actually have to reactivate them. 90% of the issue comes from having to click the damn things again, go through the animation of 6 toggles, only to have them knocked off again or get held again before we finish.
3) Give bosses a high enough magnitude knockback to defeat Tanker/Scrapper/Brute/Stalker knockback protection, unless they are using one of the tier 9 overload powers (and give Ice, Dark Armor, and Fire one of those, please?) or an outside buff like Increase Density. Knockback is a staple of comic book melee fights, and knockback suppression should be enough to keep it from being annoying. Give all Tanker, Scrapper, Brute, and Stalker sets Knockback protection, so that Fire and Dark aren't knocked 100 feet back just so that an Invuln gets knocked back 10.
4) Lower status protection (but not resistance) levels on the basic (non-overload) Tanker/Scrapper/Brute/Stalker powers again, so that it takes maybe 2 or 3 of a type to break through, with the exception of Knockback with respect to non-bosses. In return, give them all some protection and resistance to slow, -fly, and -jump powers. It's ridiculous that one web grenade prevents a Tanker from being able to step up a small ledge to help his team. 2-3 web grenades? Okay. If you want to crank the magnitude on these in PvP so things are unchanged there, knock yourself out.
4) Remove hold/stun/disorient/immobilize/endurance drain effects from ALL MINIONS. Knockback is fine as long as it's considerably lower in magnitude than bosses, and isn't given to everyone. The only real difference between a minion and an LT or Boss should not be hitpoints, damage, and accuracy. LTs and Bosses should have power advantages. Sappers, for example, should be LTs, but shouldn't have 3 freaking endurance drains (one of which is AoE, and another is a melee hold!) that drain 75% of your bar. If you want them to have all those drains, make it 25-33% of a bar, and make their hold attack NOT drain endurance.
These would make status effects mean something when they are used, without being annoying to the person affected (having to turn on toggles or be permaheld), and it changes the game so that high level non-melees aren't constantly annoyed (yes, annoyed, not challenged) by status effects from minions even in solo heroic missions.
It's not fun to stand there with your head in your hands followed by turning toggles back on for 30-50% of combat. Lots of Defender friends of mine have dropped leadership because they got tired of turning it back on 1-3 times a fight.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
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1) Longbow have an XP Bonus
2) Flamethrower: The Multiple Burn Patches is a bug. I've put it on my list of things to fix.
3) Spec Ops are limited to 1 per spawn point for generic spawns. There may be specific encounter groups designed with more than one, however.
4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
5) Arachnos is fairly tough, too -- especially if there are Fortunata's around.
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You may want to check on Crey Plasma Scientists version of flamethrower as well. It seems they just let loose forever.
-Zilania
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I second that. I was on a team doing a crey mish, and those Plasma guys kicked out [censored]. They also tended to spawn at a higher level than made sense for the three of us.
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All these reasons are why they are worth more XP than normal.
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What good is the extra XP if you have to use it to pay off debt when your team turns a corner and runs into a spawn with 6 nulifiers in it and they chain stun and knockdown the entire group over and over and over.......
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4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
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Um, yay for Energy Armor and Defense! I hadn't noticed this except for a couple of odd times. Think I *might* have noticed the toggle drop and bugged it because I thought some power was toggle dropping from PvP accidentally.
Like almost everyone else noted, toggle dropping is *not* fun for melee character.
Actually, toggle dropping is not fun for any characters. Probably one of the biggest reasons that all of my newer characters have some sort of mezz protection except my human-form peacebringer.
You guys may want to really rethink mezzing and toggle dropping.
I would suggest replacing toggle dropping and do the oft-suggested toggle suppression. (Suppression in this case being a reduction in resistance/defense (of active powers) to 1/2 their effectiveness.)
Toggle dropping offensive toggles (Ie. Darkest Night) would not terribly hurt my feelings.
Superman getting punched and becoming Clark Kent is just wrong on so many levels.
Still here, even after all this time!
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2) Make toggles (all toggles) not shut off when held, slept, or disoriented, but instead be suppressed while the effect is on, so that we don't actually have to reactivate them. 90% of the issue comes from having to click the damn things again, go through the animation of 6 toggles, only to have them knocked off again or get held again before we finish.
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Let me sign this, stamp this, sign in blood, agree.
Being vulnerable when held by a status effect is annoying, but can be dealt with. Blasters, once out of a hold, can immediately retreat if necessary and start blasting, controllers can start controlling, defenders healing. Meleers have to start turning on toggles. I would be happy to trade a lowered status effect for toggle suppression. And it's not like suppression is a foreign concept to the game these days.
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4) Remove hold/stun/disorient/immobilize/endurance drain effects from ALL MINIONS. Knockback is fine as long as it's considerably lower in magnitude than bosses, and isn't given to everyone. The only real difference between a minion and an LT or Boss should not be hitpoints, damage, and accuracy. LTs and Bosses should have power advantages. Sappers, for example, should be LTs, but shouldn't have 3 freaking endurance drains (one of which is AoE, and another is a melee hold!) that drain 75% of your bar. If you want them to have all those drains, make it 25-33% of a bar, and make their hold attack NOT drain endurance.
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The problem with this is, for most of my characters, once a sapper drains me I'm probably done for that battle, my choices are escape or examine the ground. That means I must one-shot them, or hold them. Lieutenants don't get one shotted and are slightly harder to hold.
If spec-ops are the new sappers, then spec-ops should never been more than one per spawn. Even that's no guarantee...I've had five overlapping longbow ambushes in some missions which means I've been fighting three spawns simultaneously. (That's another issue...an in-mission ambush should not spawn until the prior group is taken care of.) Fortunately, I've been running a robotic mastermind and those don't seem to be bothered me (and they can drain me of endurance all the want...in combat my main role is "Everybody attack that one" "now everybody attack taht one") But I've run scrappers (much) and tankers (a little) and can well imagine the impact on brutes and stalkers.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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1) Longbow have an XP Bonus
2) Flamethrower: The Multiple Burn Patches is a bug. I've put it on my list of things to fix.
3) Spec Ops are limited to 1 per spawn point for generic spawns. There may be specific encounter groups designed with more than one, however.
4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
5) Arachnos is fairly tough, too -- especially if there are Fortunata's around.
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Have seen MANY of what one would assume to be generic spawns, that contained multiple Spec Ops. When soloing I almost always TpFoe any flamers and SOs out of the group and deal with them singly. Might wanna check to make sure SpecOps are spawning as intended.
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3) Spec Ops are limited to 1 per spawn point for generic spawns. There may be specific encounter groups designed with more than one, however.
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I've seen groups with multiple Spec Ops, solo and teamed.
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4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
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So when there was a public outcry against this same basic effect on Ballista, you parade this crap around proudly like this?
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5) Arachnos is fairly tough, too -- especially if there are Fortunata's around.
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I rarely see Fortunas, and even more rarely do I see them do anything, speaking as a villain who has to fight both Arachnos and Longbow, they're both not easy, but longbow, with it's bosses that hit for monster damage and random crap from minions like Spec Ops and the LT Nulifiers, it's much more painful, debt giving and annoying then any other NPC group.
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3) Spec Ops are limited to 1 per spawn point for generic spawns. There may be specific encounter groups designed with more than one, however.
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I know running solo on Invicible, my MM has encountered multiple Spec Ops in a mob.
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4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
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So you're basically admitting that the net effect is just to drop toggles. Thanks! I'm sure the melee class will appreciate that.
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I rarely see Fortunas, and even more rarely do I see them do anything, speaking as a villain who has to fight both Arachnos and Longbow, they're both not easy, but longbow, with it's bosses that hit for monster damage and random crap from minions like Spec Ops and the LT Nulifiers, it's much more painful, debt giving and annoying then any other NPC group.
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My INV/SS tanker definitely notices, as their psi damage is definitely a "MUST BE STOPPED AT ALL COSTS" sort of damage.
Still here, even after all this time!
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3) Spec Ops are limited to 1 per spawn point for generic spawns. There may be specific encounter groups designed with more than one, however.
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You mean like those roving ballista in st martial with like 5 or 6 spec-ops hanging out with 'em?
or am i just running into several different whambushes with him that are left over?
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4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
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I'm going to be blunt here.
Do the people who come up with this stuff know how to balance games?
I'm serious.
I'm going to give you an example from a game system lots and lots of people are famliar with: Dungeons and Dragons. D&D is balanced on the idea of players making a certain income by facing foes of certain threat ratings roughly matched to their own team's rating. Part and parcel of the income won by characters is the idea that they will spend it on equipment. That ability to have equipment is factored into the threat rating of foes tossed at the PCs. It is understood that if you have level 10 D&D characters with no magic weapons or magic armor that they are very likely underpowered to face Challenge Rating 10 foes, because those foes will assume characters who bought such things by then.
CoH and CoV are no different. Foes are balanced in damage dealt per blow, HP, and mez capability on the assumption that heroes will have key powers (and will have lots of slots in them!). Melee heroes are given armors, and Critter melee damage is very high to balance it. Other crucial, non-armor toggles that can be expected of level 35+ heroes are ones that affect accuracy or prevent mezzing.
Toggle dropping removes these assumed capabilities from our characters. This means that the character is put in a state that imbalances the level of threat they can handle - they can no longer deal with threats appropriate to their level. Yet toggle dropping foes do not, in general, deal less damage, and certainly no allied critters they are in a group with do so. They lower the effective level of the player's character but have no compensating reduction of their own.
Stop with the PvE negation of our powers. As implemented it is blatant poor game balance in the favor of the critters. Powers are the only reward we get in this game. It is tiresome and frustrating for cancellation of them to be more than an occasional occurence.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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1) Longbow have an XP Bonus
2) Flamethrower: The Multiple Burn Patches is a bug. I've put it on my list of things to fix.
3) Spec Ops are limited to 1 per spawn point for generic spawns. There may be specific encounter groups designed with more than one, however.
4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
5) Arachnos is fairly tough, too -- especially if there are Fortunata's around.
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You may want to check on Crey Plasma Scientists version of flamethrower as well. It seems they just let loose forever.
-Zilania
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Yeah, I can distinctly remember putting both snow storm and infrigidate on a plasma scientist -- and he never stopped firing. Kept thinking to myself "Boy, that's odd" 
"Can play" is not a binary. It's a float.
There are some pretty low values of "can play" out there.
--Fulmens
The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off
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Wasn't there enough aggro drawn over the other PvE toggle dropping mob to help show how bad this is?
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The worst part of toggle-dropping is the fact that you can skip the animations with some powers (EA's Entropy Shield, or Stone Armor's Rock Armor), while other powers effectively hold you in place until it's finished (All three toggles in SR). Oh, that, and you can easily fail to notice that a toggle has been dropped... 
Longbow aren't terribly difficult for any of my toons, solo or in groups. I've done the climb to 40 twice at this point, so I know how they can be, and they really aren't that tough.
But they are BORING. Same costume and I think even the same height (5th and Council at least vary the height of their uniformed minions). And they're always in the same tech base map. Blah. I don't like the way the spawns seem to come out at all. Give me a level range and a group size and I bet I can tell you exactly what every spawn in a mission will have in it. Egads, get some more unit types in there! How about some "Hero in Training" type minions that use powers instead of guns? How about a melee unit or two?
I can kill them all day long on the highest difficulty setting. They aren't that tough to me. The stacked flamethrowers can be tough and level 40+ spec ops are obnoxious but for the rest all I can say is "Yawn."
Mostly, I think we just need something different to two in between the 14 sequential Longbow arcs that make up the "content" for Nerva-level toons. Mix in some more Freaks. Break out the DE and Rikti (well, more than we get now). Whatever.
Things I hate: Anime. PvP. Lying MMO Developers. Outleveling content. Manga. ED. Comic Store Employees. Anime.
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3) Spec Ops are limited to 1 per spawn point for generic spawns. There may be specific encounter groups designed with more than one, however.
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So... either the spawns are too close together or there are multiple spec ops/spawn (sometimes) in the difficulty one up from base difficulty.
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4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
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So it's essentially a toggle drop. You know, just like you took off the Ballistas. Seems a little off
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5) Arachnos is fairly tough, too -- especially if there are Fortunata's around.
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They're tough, but in a fun way.
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Sappers, for example, should be LTs, but shouldn't have 3 freaking endurance drains (one of which is AoE, and another is a melee hold!) that drain 75% of your bar. If you want them to have all those drains, make it 25-33% of a bar, and make their hold attack NOT drain endurance.
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The problem with this is, for most of my characters, once a sapper drains me I'm probably done for that battle, my choices are escape or examine the ground. That means I must one-shot them, or hold them. Lieutenants don't get one shotted and are slightly harder to hold.
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You wouldn't need to one-shot them if they couldn't drain you in one hit. That's why I suggest lowering the drain amount.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
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5) Arachnos is fairly tough, too -- especially if there are Fortunata's around.
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OR the Night widows they are just plain evil.
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Carnie Ring Mistresses pwnzzz all.
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I had a big [censored] moment when running into just a Lt-class Ring Mistress during my Aura mission. [censored] is up with giving them a power that not only drains your health and endurance, but also kills your recovery and regen for over a minute? 
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Yeah, that seems to be about what it does. Doesn't miss either.
My brute just tries to take her +0 self down ASAP, use all inspirations.
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I found that it took 6 lucks to get an even level ring mistress to actually miss my brute with the Mask of OhNoRunNow. Ringers consistently hit me through 4 lucks.
"Can play" is not a binary. It's a float.
There are some pretty low values of "can play" out there.
--Fulmens
The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off
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For the love of Villains and Heroes everywhere, please do NOT nerf the mobs! You already nerfed the players too much, when you should have just made the mobs harder to begin with. Don't cater the whiners of "he beat me up!" anymore. If anything, un-nerf us and make the mobs harder.
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I vote for this!
1) Longbow have an XP Bonus
2) Flamethrower: The Multiple Burn Patches is a bug. I've put it on my list of things to fix.
3) Spec Ops are limited to 1 per spawn point for generic spawns. There may be specific encounter groups designed with more than one, however.
4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.
5) Arachnos is fairly tough, too -- especially if there are Fortunata's around.