Anyone Tired of COX and Paragon Market
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-05-12 11:33 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Not enough need a lot more proactive approach.
first, I am not tired of CoX and think the market has been great for the game with lots of new stuff.
but let's be realistic - most of the content that people will play lvl 1-50 is old.
Most people play blueside which has the really old and lame content. I don't think this is as much of an issue redside which has better content overall.
Teaming consists primarily of DfB, DiB, radio missions, tips, and task forces.
DfB is fun but running it multiple times gets old
DiB is fun but running it multiple times gets old
Radio missions are great for teams logistically (grab a door mission and go) but are repetitive.
Tips are great missions but there are few of them so they get repetitive fast.
Task forces are old and really, really, really, really bad except for positron, sutter and maybe Hess. Certainly the Phalanx tf's are terrible except positron
The new arcs are good but there are very few, they are mostly level 20-30, and they tend to suck for teaming due to gimmicks, fed ex missions, etc
The lack of new content is not flat out the devs fault. There is new content - Praetoria. But players don't want to play it. Making Praetoria 1-20 open to everyone would help in theory - but that's not really the area that needs content.
There is also SSA #1 which spans lots of levels. I don't know why it is not played more. I suspect it is because the special reward is only given once per week which makes it seem like a waste to do it more.
The levels that take time are 30-50 and that has basically no new content (I know we are getting some).
As I see it, there are 5 main issues:
1. old content is really bad, but could be helped "easily" by removing street sweeps, defeat alls (change to defeating a boss), and sending people to talk for info (KR hero corps, pvp zone contact, hollows contact, etc). There is a lot of good, old content that is buried by the chaff.
2. new content being created has been largely 1-30 which is not what needs the new content. We need a lot of new 30-50 content.
3. new content is story driven with gimmicks. This makes for a good story. It is bad for replayability and terrible for teaming.
4. players take the easy route which is dfb, dib, tf's, and radio missions. Making new content available does not mean people do it, especially teams. There has to be a carrot to get teams to go to Faultline, Striga, Croatoa, or just do something besides tf's and radio missions.
5. Rewards force players to replay the same content. Everyone has to do the midnighter arc. You get an accolade for doing the old tf's. The devs are essentially paying you to do old, bad content and then making new content that gives you nothing.
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The game *desperately* needs new 1-30 content.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
2. new content being created has been largely 1-30 which is not what needs the new content. We need a lot of new 30-50 content.
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Most of the existing content in that range *shipped with the game* and is an absolute embarrassment, even when compared to something like radio missions.
MMOs are bottomless pits that can soak up infinite amounts of content without filling up. Sure, we could use more high level content- but objectively the existing high level stuff is, for the most part, pretty good, while the majority of the low level stuff is absolute swill- just terrible, indigestible garbage.
If you're expecting your new 'free to play' initiative to attract new players, it behooves you to add some good low level stuff so the theoretical hoards checking out your game don't say "OMG GET ME OUT OF HERE" after their first street hunt followed by a fedex to a security chief halfway across the city.
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I'm not oppossed to low level content. Sadly, its the levels that go the quickest, and thusly gets people just PLing through it. So it becomes to feel like a waste to make it. :/
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The game *desperately* needs new 1-30 content.
Most of the existing content in that range *shipped with the game* and is an absolute embarrassment, even when compared to something like radio missions. MMOs are bottomless pits that can soak up infinite amounts of content without filling up. Sure, we could use more high level content- but objectively the existing high level stuff is, for the most part, pretty good, while the majority of the low level stuff is absolute swill- just terrible, indigestible garbage. If you're expecting your new 'free to play' initiative to attract new players, it behooves you to add some good low level stuff so the theoretical hoards checking out your game don't say "OMG GET ME OUT OF HERE" after their first street hunt followed by a fedex to a security chief halfway across the city. |
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More likely a perception issue.
I'm currently on a burnout break myself. Shame that my latest burnout just happened to coincide with Nemesis' invasion but thems the breaks.
When I finally got to roll up my Staff fighter, only to be completely melancholy about the whole experience combined with no excitement over the anniversary event... I knew I needed to step back for a few weeks.
It isn't the game, it's our perception. Routine needs to be broken from time to time. Take a week or so off, come back refreshed and renewed!
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Truth.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
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- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie
Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608
Burnout happens from time to time. What is important is to take a step back and do something else for a period of time. And summer is coming, feeling the fresh air and the sun warming your skin. Being with friends and generally doing what life has to offer... and playing other games.
Until you feel ready for another round of City of Heroes.
Only thing I'm "Tired" of specifically also with Paragon Marked is... Well Paragon studios do have a thing in my mind of not making menus properly. When just a few more buttons or features would make (game)life much easier.
Take Paragon Marked. There is no marker to see if you already have bought the item. Say you made a list of items that you want to buy, you have gone through the slog of putting things in your cart and you want to buy it. BUT
the purchase will not get through... meaning you already got ONE (or more) items on the list... but which one?
or this feature
In the paragon marked when I see something I want I click for it to appear in my wish list... why oh why do I then get shuffled to my wish list and have to do the search again... to find where I was (cause I wanted another thing on the page I was...)
The AE... Better search engine would be nice. Since it appears farms is ok now, why not do a remake of the search engine, so that those who favor farms do not accidently play yours and find it is not a farm and rate it with a 1 (with the reason it was not a farm)?
If the Nemesis invasion the entire month is the only thing that will be done to celebrate 8 years of CoH... Then that will be an anti-climax for me and rate probably lower then issue 15.
BUT regardless of the above issues. After a long break from the game and issue 22 being here, (AWESOME ISSUE) I'm back and having fun. So many new things to see and do, badges to get, builds to improve and hopefully get some rp done in the near future.
It is good being back. 
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The only thing I'm tired about the Paragon Market is the horrible interface that requires me to drill down three levels and flip four pages to find the item costume bundle that's either new or on sale. It makes the consignment house UI see like the pinnacle of UI design.
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Inherent Stamina was not new content nor was it even actually a revamp (it was a QoL change that likely consumed the most trivial amount of development resources). I reject your rejection.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
When Stamina was made base line that was "new content", so I reject the notion that revamping is not new content.
There is a reason why the Paragon team is allowing CoX players to choose to revamp a zone. They too realize you have to start to revamp the core of the game. Or adding in new textures in the costume creator that will actually look like tights instead of painted on look. In short, I do not think there would be any complaints if one issue was dedicated to a revamp to breathe in the replay value of the game as a whole. |
Like I said, they have already done revamps, and depending on how it's done it can be essentially indistinguishable from new content (see: the Hollows in Issue 12 vs. the Incarnate-level Dark Astoria revamp). But an entire Issue full of tiny little things like tweaking textures and only fixing a bunch of bugs instead of adding actual new stuff? There are definitely some bugs in this game that could use greater attention, but you can't do it all in one go, it needs to be done over time as much as can be managed while still fitting in real new content. Otherwise you end up with something like Issue 15.
And again, even if you do devote all your resources to just maintenance, you can still only fix what you figure out how to fix. The devs could work 24/7 on trying to figure out why Mastermind pets are complete morons and still not figure it out. It's not like working in a factory where you just hammer nails into a widget for X amount of time and when you're done you have Y widgets, so if you spend X+n time you end up with Y+m widgets.
Really this thread just blows me the hell away because I literally cannot wrap my head around the concept of more choices = fewer choices. The game is not without its flaws post-Freedom (lord knows it's not), but I don't think I've seen any criticism that has made any actual coherent sense.
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This. Paragon really needs to hire a legit UI designer.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
The only thing I'm tired about the Paragon Market is the horrible interface that requires me to drill down three levels and flip four pages to find the item costume bundle that's either new or on sale. It makes the consignment house UI see like the pinnacle of UI design.
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Also, if I was tired of this game I'd bail for awhile. But I'm not, so I haven't. If anything, the Paragon Market is pretty bamf. We've gotten loads more items, costumes, powers, content, and basically everything else that, if you had suggested any of it pre-Freedom, you'd be told it wouldn't fit into the schedule anytime within the foreseeable future.
I am not sick of the game, but a little burned out. Thus, I am playing something else, but my account is still VIP until a shiney comes along. I would agree with making menus for AE and PM easier to sift through.
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I've sort of found myself agreeing with the OP here, so I figured I'd offer my own perception of the supposed "issue." |
Originally Posted by DarkGob
Really this thread just blows me the hell away because I literally cannot wrap my head around the concept of more choices = fewer choices. The game is not without its flaws post-Freedom (lord knows it's not), but I don't think I've seen any criticism that has made any actual coherent sense.
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Post Freedom, there's been a ton of stuff added, and at a much faster pace. For a while it was all shiny and new and there was pure volume to the point where it seemed rather overwhelming. Now though, we're settled in, and our recent frame of reference shifts from, "a new powerset is a real big big deal" and "a new zone revamp is incredible and rarely happens and wowzers!" to, "oh these things happen fairly often now." We've gotten a few powersets and two (and a half) zone revamps in particular in under a year. In the grand scheme of things, that's a lot. But then you look at mission content, you look at old contacts, you look at the issues that have been nagging you forever, the stuff that's been around since launch, and you refer to your frame of reference where everything is new and shiny from Freedom and you say, "well why haven't they churned out a ton of stuff that fixes X?" Where X is whatever you look at and take issue with.
Basically, people are forgetting that Paragon wasn't always in the position they are in now, which is to say "way better financially than we were before we started selling you a ton of stuff you want." And, that they've only been in this position for a (comparatively) brief period of time. Personally, I've been pretty happy about the transition, but nothing in particular has excited me over what they've been making as of late, so I went and dropped to premium for a while to see how it goes. I think now more than ever they're in a position to do some awesome stuff that they never could have before, and I really hope it evolves somewhere beyond "just make more stuff that you already have" and into "make stuff that you want that you don't have already," or at the very least, "fix the stuff that's been broken forever."
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Take a break.| 1) My lack of time to invest in Super Group stuff, TF or Incarnate Arcs. |
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2) Lack of mission teams to join. Trials have destroyed teaming in Paragon. Solitary nature of trial interaction reminds me of PI powerleveling run. Empty zones with almost no one to team with during daytime. |
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3) Lack of new enemies, staleness of same old foes year after year. Lack of new contact, paper, radio missions for mission teams. |
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4) Lack of Desire to create new Hero/Heroine The same old powersets nothing new or interesting for free. The new powersets that I have bought have dissapointed me. Same old costumes unless you pay for new options. |
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5) Lack of Desire to level or roleplay my older Heroes. Do to apathy or boredom with my progress or the game itself. |
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But, for me as a VIP it only serves annoy me since now powersets and costumes are not QL improvements as they have been in the past. The Paragon Market has reduced my choices instead of increasing them. It is too bad new free stuff might have rekindled some interest in the game. |
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| Overall, I guess you could call me dissapointed in the direction of the game. |
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We do not speak of that issue | Otherwise you end up with something like Issue 15. |
Worst.Issue.Ever!
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When there are bugs and, hell, *typos* that have been around since near Issue 1, I don't think it's unreasonable to say 'So, when is this getting fixed again?' Heck, get some of the players to compile a list of all the typos (if someone hasn't already...) and then run through them during one week. I simply cannot believe that typo fixing is THAT hard, seriously.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
They actually do all of the things you mentioned (have you already forgotten about the Atlas Park and Dark Astoria revamps?), they just haven't and won't devote an entire Issue release to them because that would be moronic and the outcry from the community over a full release containing no actual new content would likely be quite larger than you seem to think it would be.
Also, it's really easy to say "just fix the bugs", but a prerequisite to that is actually knowing how to fix them, which is not near as easy as people seem to think it is, especially in the spaghetti mess of code that the game has become over 8 years. Sometimes trying to fix something that's pretty horribly broken only makes it even worse, so it's definitely not trivial to get that done while continuing to put out new content so the playerbase doesn't get bored and move on to a game that's actually making new content. |
As for the whole 'no new content' thing, this is the problem. The Devs are rock-grounded in this mindset that they NEED new shinies....when Revamping IS new content. Look at the Atlas and DA revamps. Sling out old junk that nearly no one ever plays (nearly, I know, get off my case) and add in new stuff; revamp!
My point is that it should not still be possible to run all the new stuff...and then wind up getting the contacts in Kings and Steel who send you on elventy-one Fed-Ex, Security Chief and hunt missions. That kind of disconnect is jarring and bad for the game as a whole.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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After cleaning up the dangling bits of the game, I still suggest "Dynamic Content" (tm) for the open world.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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faultline, striga, croatoa|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The game *desperately* needs new 1-30 content.
Most of the existing content in that range *shipped with the game* and is an absolute embarrassment, even when compared to something like radio missions. |
Sutter TF
2 level 15 steel arcs
Keith Nance, Jenny Adair
Roy Cooling
First Ward
there is a lot of content in that range that did not ship with the game, some very new.
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Which is true, however the 30 - 49 range is VERY dry in new content. A revamped/new maria jenkins arc and i think thats been it in literally years for that range?|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
faultline, striga, croatoa
Sutter TF 2 level 15 steel arcs Keith Nance, Jenny Adair Roy Cooling First Ward there is a lot of content in that range that did not ship with the game, some very new. |
Think thats what people mean though in that you go through all this cool new content from 1 - 30, but then after that what do you do? Cimerora only really has 2 short arcs and you could say the SSA's, but people do want proper storyarcs in the game for that level range.
Edit: 30 - 45 has always been the slowest level range for myself personally. Not through content or anything, but the lack of fun things for my alt to do. Very hard to do arcs that are a few years old when just coming out of shiny
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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Yes, very new and addressing a serious need.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
faultline, striga, croatoa
Sutter TF 2 level 15 steel arcs Keith Nance, Jenny Adair Roy Cooling First Ward there is a lot of content in that range that did not ship with the game, some very new. |
A need which still exists, as I'm discovering in my play through.
Ideally there would be a 1-30 path of all new stuff for players who didn't jump on the trial PL wagon.
And I'm not saying 1-30 should necessarily be prioritized over the higher levels, I'm just saying it's still a shambles even with the recent (very welcome) improvements.
The whole game needs new content- wherever they put it will be helpful.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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you know, giving the devs their due, issue 15 seemed to address 3 things. people wanted reichsman and had been asking for him for years. love it or hate it, it added him in game|
Originally Posted by EU_Damz
We do not speak of that issue
Worst.Issue.Ever! |
2. this was in the midst of the whole booster pack thing, and many were pecking paragon heavily for selling booster packs and not giving any new costume pieces as part of the base subscription price. 15 had the ulterior set and the vines pattern. it wasn't much, but it was an olive branch.
3. it was a quickie release to get out on the anniversery with no closed beta, people used to get seriously cranky about them back in the day, complaining of bias in the sample pool so the whole issue seemed to be a pacifier more than a full issue.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
The only thing I'm tired about the Paragon Market is the horrible interface that requires me to drill down three levels and flip four pages to find the item costume bundle that's either new or on sale. It makes the consignment house UI see like the pinnacle of UI design.
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
This. Paragon really needs to hire a legit UI designer.
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I hit a rut like this about a year ago in March, where everything seemed dull. So I took a three month break. Came back fresh with ideas and found a new group of friends. Then I lost them and the rut was back, and like the previous time, found a new group of friends, this time to stay.
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No I I don't agree at all with your myopic view point.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
Inherent Stamina was not new content nor was it even actually a revamp (it was a QoL change that likely consumed the most trivial amount of development resources). I reject your rejection.
Like I said, they have already done revamps, and depending on how it's done it can be essentially indistinguishable from new content (see: the Hollows in Issue 12 vs. the Incarnate-level Dark Astoria revamp). But an entire Issue full of tiny little things like tweaking textures and only fixing a bunch of bugs instead of adding actual new stuff? There are definitely some bugs in this game that could use greater attention, but you can't do it all in one go, it needs to be done over time as much as can be managed while still fitting in real new content. Otherwise you end up with something like Issue 15. And again, even if you do devote all your resources to just maintenance, you can still only fix what you figure out how to fix. The devs could work 24/7 on trying to figure out why Mastermind pets are complete morons and still not figure it out. It's not like working in a factory where you just hammer nails into a widget for X amount of time and when you're done you have Y widgets, so if you spend X+n time you end up with Y+m widgets. Really this thread just blows me the hell away because I literally cannot wrap my head around the concept of more choices = fewer choices. The game is not without its flaws post-Freedom (lord knows it's not), but I don't think I've seen any criticism that has made any actual coherent sense. |
A QoL change like inherent stamina is an integral part of a revamp. QoL changes, power set balance changes (see Gravity tweaks), revamping zones to be easier to navigate and be aesthetically pleasing, etc.
I didn't say all resources should be devoted to fix the core game. Only one issue. Incarnate content has had plenty of dedicated issues, so time to go back to the core I say.
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D.U.S.T. are new with First Ward, I believe. The Possessed and the Apparitions as well.
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Originally Posted by EU_Damz
Since Freedom launched we have seen the following new groups + complete upgrades of existing ones.
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It's the same old mentality that has been around forever; that 'New shiny!' is always better than 'Revamp', to the point that everything is ALL 'New Shiny' when some 'revamp' of the old junk would actually be hugely appreciated. Y'know, bug fixes, culling out pointless filler content and replacing it with actual story arcs, cleaning up the mess that is I0-1 content, etc etc. Revamping parts of the costume creator and it's UI...
Streamlining, basically. Rather than a hyper-active squirrel-dance from new fad to new fad.
There have been 2 Issues under the new Freedom title, and we've had 3 zone revamps so far - along with Independence Port being lined up for attention at the recent Player Summit, and hints from Positron and the devs that Kings Row is also very much on their revamp radar.
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