LadyGrimrose

Thank you, Samuraiko, for inspiring my friend to take a stab at leaving his comfort zone and become a YouTube videographer. The game was a big portion of what he wanted to do and the channel will continue once its closes. It took a lot of courage on his part, being a reclusive individual that he is, to break the comfort zone and start out on this path, but I can honestly say you were one of the key inspirations behind the effort. Thank you.

Actually, Ms. Lackey is a Huge fan of City of Heroes and is very upset about the closure of the game and how it was handled. She was interviewed on a podcast recently and once they were on the topic of the closure the other guests had a hard time getting a word. It's not about publicity for her, she's already established herself as an author. She is vehement about how the closure was handled and the fact that NcSoft has had nothing to say beyond a very generic response.

Look, if you want to play an NcSoft title, no one here is stopping you. I, personally, won't be buying any more NcSoft branded products. I already know, via their inept handling of marketing, that they will bungle themselves into oblivion one day, and that's fine by me.

That being said I wish the moderators of this forum all the luck in the world these next few weeks. They will have the hardest job. Believe it or not they do still exist here and are probably biding their time where a few of you are concerned. As for me, I'm not going to bother with another farewell thread. I got internet back earlier than I'd hoped and came back to the forums that were once a mark of pride for CoH. Now, these forums read exactly like the WoW forums. Congradulations in your bullying efforts. You've made me realize that this portion of the game is now over for me.

Sadly, NcSoft backed CoH ends Nov. 30th. After that I move on to editing a heroic tale full time via my YouTube partner's work. Sadly, I doubt NcSoft will ever release the IP. they could promote a LOT of good will if they did, but their silence speaks volumes. I wish Titan all the luck in the world, but CoH is soon to be another notch on NcSoft's kill sheet.

Sorry to despoil the Soul Blade issues, but in fact the game is, in fact, a fighting game MMO set in a world very similar to Soul Calibur. There are a number of fighting game players in our group and all of them had the same reaction to the name after the initial "expert" had his say. What they got ticked off about is the gross similarities between the two concepts. So to say Brand Recognition isn't there, it is.

Risque in CoH, yes, but it wasn't "in your face" advertised that way. Desdemona and Sister Psyche, ok I'll give you that, but the outfits showcased in the actual advertising for B&S make it part of the marketing. The physics are also on display in the marketing and there are zero physics brought into play in CoH where that aspect is concerned.

As to other MMOs closing, sure, but the sheer number under NcSoft is ridiculous. It warrants caution. As to people losing their jobs, if the game does poorly they will lose said jobs anyway under NcSoft.

Sorry, again, I'm part of a group that plays a LOT of MMOs and we will no longer be giving NcSoft any money. And please don't bring up "You trusted them with CoH" again. We trusted Paragon Studios Devs and they were treated as poorly as we were, in the end. I have zero faith in NcSoft and if they want out of the EU and US markets so badly then they should make the transition and go. They've made it clear and that alone will keep people from trusting anything they put out.

Huzzah! I got internet back early! In time time ridicule this game. Three strikes are going forward with this game.

1) Fighting game players are already insulted that NcSoft is banking on brand recognition from Soul Blade (The original name of the Soul Calibur series in the EU and US.) That, alone, is pretty underhanded marketing. A member of my gaming group, who is a fighting game fanatic, actually thought it was Namco's MMO. When we educated him otherwise he did a complete 180.

2) The game is highly insulting to female players. In my group there are about ten of us and not one of us will be picking up this game for its depiction of women. Hell, some of the guys in our group described it as, "Oh, look NcSoft made a Hentai MMO. Finally, a dark closet game." When it came to being serious they stated they wouldn't play because they wouldn't want to be caught playing it.

3) NcSoft is "trying" to get away from the M for Mature rating on the game, but it just won't happen. It's a fighting game, it does have bloody splatter, and the "physics" can be adjusted to horrendous proportions. Being able to turn off the blood won't help the cause. The game is destined for an M rating.

Add all three of these factor together with the fact that its a PvP grindfest game unsupported even in its home market and you have a game destined for failure. I think the lack of support in its launch territory alone should make people leery as it stands. This game will sink very, very fast. Want more proof? My group consists of about 32 people who will test play any MMO that comes out. Until I started talking about the game only a handful even knew it was coming out. When most found out it was NcSoft the uniform reaction was not those I listed above, those comments came later. No, my group's reaction was this, "Oh, a new game that will be shut down. No Thanks."

Hmmm... Disney has a habbit of absorbing popular businesses into the fold these days. What if, in addition to Hasbro, SquareEnix became one with the Mouse? They already work with them via Kingdom Hearts (Which arguably just got a LOT more interesting.)

+1

[Note: This message is not From LadyGrim, but rather the original owner of the account. She left the game and forums as she stated. I've just seen enough to put my two cents in here.]

What I don't understand is why we have this little collective of individuals that seem to think it is their place to tell us, over and over in several posts, that we are wrong for being upset over the closure of the game.

NcSoft made a business decision, yes. They handled that decision's execution poorly. Like it or not the day they handed out the news is suspect. Augst 31st was the first full weekend of Guild Wars 2 (preorders only played the weekend before). It was also Labor Day Weekend and PAX. By Tuesday the announcement was buried under coverage. Was this a wise business tactic, yes. For the players and Dev team though, it's bad because it didn't allow for the closing news to get the voice it could have had.

Stating over and over that it's just a game, move on, is not helping matters and it makes you look rather small and petty. Yes, it was a game, but it was a game doing well, in its own right and the communtiy surrounding it (which includes the Devs) is hurt because it "is" (whether you like it or not) like part of our family was permanently injured.

Statements that the Devs knew it was coming are wrong because of what was stated at the beginning of this thread. Any speculation to the contrary is merely conspiracy theorim unless one of the many Devs that has stated otherwise comes forward suddenly to retract that they weren't as surprised as the players.

Bad mouthing SaveCoH when it has done so much for charities because of all this is, to me, a horrendous travesty. SaveCoH has been lauded for its maturity in its actions. And before you bring up emulators, they have also stated, over and over, they are not working on it in conjunction with Plan Z and they are even distancing themselves from it, at this point.

As to why we trusted NcSoft after what they've done to other games, we haven't. We trusted Paragon Studios. If NcSoft had replaced the Dev team when they bought the game we probably wouldn't be here discussing any of this at the moment. The Paragon Devs asked for our trust, not NcSoft, and they never steered us wrong. And before the snide comment about "until the closure of the game", again, they were taken as surprise as we were.

Your opinions are, just that, yours. Tauting them over and over and over in every thread you can find a spark is tantamount to ridiculous and severely lacking in character. If you're happy with NcSoft's decision, fine, let it drop. Go play their other games. Spouting your opinion on the matter won't change the minds of this community or SaveCoH. Stop trying to portray us as "whiney brats" when several sources have praised us for our actions, including our work for charities in the face of the closure.

We are losing an MMO home and while it's true we could simply move the community, sadly, that won't happen. Some will go to other MMOs, others will stop playing MMOs, and a few will stop gaming all together. And that's what hurts. The heart of our community, the Devs, was ripped from us and we're being told (again by a select few) it's not okay to grieve, it's not okay to try and get the game in someone else's hands, it's not ok to considder it an injustice. Well to that select group, it's your opinion, and if you're fine with it, please, just move on.

I'm done with the game and the forums, but before I go I will say a few things.

1) This game meant a lot to some of us and the community has done much to help many noble causes and charities.

2) The passion I saw arise in the SaveCoH movement should carry forward with a new game once this one closes. It is doubtful NcSoft will release the IP.

3) To my friends in Whisper X (the greatest non-SG ever), to the members of the All Stars on Virtue, and to most of the community herein, hold your heads high and your hearts close. To former Paragon Studios Devs, get out there and find a new game I will follow you anywhere.

4) Lastly, good riddance to those that have come in and made some of us feel our only recourse is to leave the forums early. FACT, my mind is made up. NcSoft is dead to me. The cyber bullying I've seen the last few days here only strengthens my resolve.

"She who must not be named... signing off"

8 year veteran and VIP here. I never left. I left other games, notably WoW, but my subscription here never wavered. Placing a blanket generalization that everyone in SaveCoH just happened to come back to post on the forums, etc. is grossly inaccurate. The same could be said in reverse for those defending NcSoft. But such is not the case.

They made a business decision, yes. How they handled it was, without a doubt, poor.

The main issue is everyone wants WoW numbers and, let's face it, that is probably never going to happen unless Blizzard severely messes up. The only game that came close before WoW was EQ, the game WoW dethroned. Why did people leave EQ? Grindfest and forced grouping. WoW has a univeral appeal to it. It's doesn't do everything perfect, but it does a lot to a reasonable extent, just enough to not cause players to pick up the proverbial pitchforks and walk off.

GW2 shows up and starts off grand and the great thing about it is, unlike Old Republic or Rift, people weren't tied to a monthly off the bat. Yes, both Old Republic and Rift have gone F2P, but it's a bit late. Today people value their time gaming and its becoming increasingly important to play where your friends play. If all you have is a lackluster start, the moment something really good peaks up that's when you should worry. People are looking for a place where all their friends can play in the same sandbox and not get fed up.

Old Repbulic did a lot of things right, but in the end (like Rift) it was just too similar to WoW and not enough to permantently hold the numbers from the initial launches. GW2 came out with no monthly fee, just a promise of a good experience, and its working.

I have a lot of friends with different wants in an MMO experience. What we all wanted was a place where all of us could do things together. To date that has equated to two games: City of Heroes and Guild Wars 2. I will be honest, half of my group did not play CoH, half play WoW (and still do.) Believe me, we had a round table on this and we pegged it down to something unique.

The question I posed was this, "Why do we all play Guild Wars 2?" Answer (boiled down to make it simple), "It has something all of us can enjoy." The next question was (taking into account NcSoft's actions) "Would we recemmend GW2?" The answer (no offense) is, "Yes."

I then asked my group about the other games and here's how it worked out:

Everquest: "Graphics are out of date. Innovations came too late to regain our interest (key point here). Better games out there."
Everquest 2: "Art style is horrid. Seems generic. Did not have enough to draw us back to the franchise."
Lineage 2: "For PvPers only. Some of us detest PvP, but still want to play together. Game is dated. Other games do PvP a lot better."
Aion: "Half of our group actually had to look this game up. That in itself is bad. Those that knew of it played it for the launch month and left after it became apparent the forced grouping and PvP were the dynamic. When asked if they'd try it again all said (and this is about thirty people mind you) Why Bother? Even if they innovate it's too late to regain our interest. Better games out there."
Tera Online: "Great combat system, but grindtastic. The main problem with the game is brand recognition. It came out, much like CoH, and the advertising vanished. Again I asked if any would go back and it came down to being too late to recapture the audience."
Blade & Soul: "Almost everyone in my group plays fighting games and more than half thought Namco was putting out an MMO. When corrected they got ticked off. Most won't be touching this game mainly because of the name and shoddy marketing through Brand recogntion NcSoft seems to be banking on. NONE of the female players (and there are ten of us) will be touching this game based on the horrendous portrayal of the female characters represented therein. And here it came down to what our resident fighting game expert stated, (I will just put in my copy of Soul Calibur 5 and play that. Why should a pay a monthly or even buy things from an ingame shop when I have multiple fighting games to play as it stands.)"
World of Warcraft: "I go back to do the new stuff every time and maybe to level a new character to max. Why? They always have just enough to peak my interest for a while. Then I taper off looking for something (keyword coming up) new. When asked if they would go back for the next expansion it was pretty much a universal, yes."

The key factor that kept the discussion going was innovation coming too late. It seems if you don't already have it in place and another game leap frogs and captures the idea it becomes way too late. It becomes an uphill battle and will probably not workout in the end. Renewed focus has worked for some games (Dungeons & Dragons Online, Lord of the Rings Online), but they are just like CoH in terms of upward momentum in player bases.

Everyone is chasing the magical formula that WoW somehow created (really, it comes down to reinvesting in an already popular game through marketing.) Some games grasp it for a while and others don't even come close. The only game that has come out that seems to be remaining stable nearly two months later, is GW2. To try and play catchup to your own success, however, with products that only cater to a portion of the equation is bad business.

The final question I did ask is this, "After how NcSoft has treated the CoH community (via the silent treatment and possible bannings due to Facebook posts) would you trust another game under their brand? In short, no." Even though a lot of us play GW2 the reputation of the publisher is now one we're all watching carefully. GW2 is the only game we're willing to put our faith in and that's because we bought the game before the closure announcement and most of us were in beta. Arenanet is full of good devs, just like CoH. But I can say we are limiting what we purchase in their ingame store. And we definitely won't be purchasing anything else NcSoft related because the whole thing sort of made us feel guilty, almost as if we had contributed to what happened. I even have a hard time playing GW2, but I will if my friends need help.

The main point is Lineage 2 and Aion are the past and no amount of throwing money at those games will help. The future should have been reinvest in what's working, not what might work.

Lineage 2 and Aion being F2P is moot when looking at the bigger picture. GW2 is a superior product in every aspect and doesn't have the issues the other two games have. It would have made more sense to close off unworking models that will be heavily impacted by a product that has player and critic appeal. No matter what NcSoft does, from this point forward, the other two games will be continually in the shadow of GW2.

Main issue with re-investing in the two games they want to focus on (Aion and Lineage 2) is their peak is done here. Both of these games thrive on PvP content and monthly subs. Out comes GW2 which has PvP done really well and no monthly fee. Yes, Lineage 2 and Aion could go to Hybrid or F2P, but the PvP engines supporting both those games is horrid compared to GW2 which has players singing its praises.

Here's the problem, people know about GW2 because it's the current cream of the crop. No matter what they do with the other two games they will always be behind GW2 and you can bet Arenanet will ensure that.

The problem with Lineage 2 is it is now dated and a pure PvP based game. That is the only demographic that will find that game appealing. PvP is a niche market and only appeals to a certain group of players. Thus, because the game is dated and becase it only works for a certain portion of the player base it will never measure up. Why play Lineage 2 when you could play with all your MMO friends in a game that is targeted to every gaming demographic.

The problem with Aion is the grindfest and the forced grouping experience. Players in the States detest grinding and its an even smaller niche market than PvP. Again, why play this when you and all your friends can play a game that caters to all of you.

And let's go to Blade & Soul. The game is not being supported where it was released first. There are a couple of articles wondering why NcSoft wants to bring out an unfinished project here. Again, it's PvP and again its a grindfest. Not to mention the fact that the game is offending (and believe it or not this is harder to do than most think) male and female gamers with its "less armor is better" approach to the characters. Again, why trust a game that is having people complain in its launch territories and, again, focuses on a niche player demographic?
Note: The name of the game is also being critisized atm. "Blade and Soul" is far to similar to the original name of the Soul Caliber series "Soul Blade." NcSoft is touting a fighting game MMO with the hopes people will give it a shot based on brand familiarity. The setting is similar as well.

NcSoft shot themselves in the foot when GW2 launched. They have all these lofty goals for games that don't measure up. In order to "refocus" they would have to, literally, order Arenanet to sabotage their own creation and that would give that development team ammunition for a "corporate sabotage" suite. I have no doubt NcSoft had hoped GW2 might have been a lackluster performer, but right now it's going strong and why shouldn't it?

You can log in and your friends can help you while still gaining for their own characters. PvP is dynamic and amazing. Casual play isn't ignored and you are rewarded for exploration, trade skills, etc. fairly well. And it doesn't take long to reach the maximum level, even through caual play.

Right now NcSoft's worst enemy is themselves. Shuffling money to concepts that are already failing or doomed to fail is proof they just don't understand this market.

I'm not going to report any emulators I see, but that's because I won't touch them. I had a bad experience with an EQ emulator once and know exactly how quickly they can be ripped away. I do not want to risk invested time, again. I want a stable home for my creations and the emulators are on shakey ground, especially since NcSoft has gone after them before.

I would rather efforts go toward a surefire bet, a new game. If a new game rises, with players behind it, NcSoft will have a very big black eye. They won't be able to do anything but sit back and go, "oops, we created our own compeition." Not to mention the huge amount of PR and support we would get from the gaming community. With an emulator you would seriously want zero public exposure and that just feels wrong. I will proudly support Plan Z, but the emulators... too risky for my creative process.

Not sure where the emulator talk is coming from with regard to Titan's Plan Z. From what I have seen it's all a proposed "new" project not a CoH emmulator down to new villain groups, city names, etc. A bulk of the emulator talk I have seen is here on these forums in a certain thread and since that rug can be ripped out from under anyone attempting it, at any time, it's unlikely that is the direction Titan wants to take.

I feel what the Titan Network hopes to accomplish is grand. If CoH can't be saved then Plan Z will go into effect and that will be, based on what I have read, a completely new game that is only a spiritual successor to CoH, not an emulated version of it. I, sort of, want to see them do it anyway becuse the passion involved is simply amazing.

The only talks I have seen about CoH is if NcSoft is willing to part with the IP and let it be run, possibly, by the player base. That would not be an emulator, but rather the continued existence of the game as it stands. If a development team can be gathered to continue working on it, at that point, grand. But again, this wouldn't be considdered an emulator but the continuation of the game itself, which is (from what I understand) what we all want.

NcSoft is not going to continue CoH, that much is fact. They are done with the game. The only hope we have of it being saved is in the form of another development house, even one of the player's creation.

Going to do another acknowledgement here, to my partner in crime on YouTube. He's busy looking for a new job and possible roof over his head atm so he hasn't had time to really do much, but he is taking what little time his days afford to do small vids and such. So here are a couple links. One to our YouTube Channel where I annotated my tush off so please watch where you can read my crafty notes. The other is his blog with a character he created the base for using CoH. The character, from what I understand, will either be a part of his upcoming book series or part of the same universe. Anyway Enjoy!

YouTube linkage: http://www.youtube.com/user/pewlagon...ow=grid&view=0

Blog linkage: http://walkersofthestorm.blogspot.com/

Thank you for the praise. Any chance this thread can get stickied? It's an amazing resource.

Anyone know what happened to Cricket?

Why is she dubbed, "She who shall not be named?" I've always wondered about the animosity held for this actress. Sorry, I have a personal interest in posing this question.

I'm crying! Thank you 'ko was everything I'd hope it would be.

A bit about the Lunar Base was discussed and the mole that has been on Earth for some time. All I know, since I missed most, is those there declared themselves a new Boy Band cover group.

Thanks for correcting me, I learned a bit which makes them even more reprehensible. Also, just learned the name for that silly fighting MMO isn't even that original and Namco should seriously be eyeballing them. Granted Soul Blade had become Soul Calibur, it's still a little shadey naming a Fighting MMO that close to a legitimate fighting game's original name.

Basically, we move forward by educating people about NcSoft's track record. Facts are facts:

1) Tabula Rasa's closure was so horrid it went to court and Garriot was awarded $28 million.

2) The staff on Dungeon Runners had plans to save the game, but were ignored.

3) Paragon Studios and City of Heroes were given zero time to prep.

4) Five MMOs down the drain, City of Heroes will be number six.

Their track record is horrid. The fudge the truth. If you're thinking of buying a NcSoft game (with a monthly fee, one they don't even support properly overseas) be ready hear these words when they decide to pull the plug, "I told you so."

Methinks Peter Parker dies in issue 700, but (as BP stated) it's a ruse to throw people off and allow him to start fresh with a new identity. Slot's statements would totally bring that all into focus then.

Slot on 700: I will have to go into hiding...
Slot on Superior: Once the first issue comes out people will go, "ooooh" and I can show my face.