Discussion: A Death Revealed....
By
15bribri15,
Posted on: 2011-12-13 11:04 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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new origin, Icarnate, that would be VIP only?!?!?! More freeform Character Creation?!?! YESSSSSSSSS!|
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
There was: Reichman's Empowerment Machine, Arachnos' experiments with Trapdoor and Recluse's Web tech [Hero 1 and Excalibur?]
[What would be nice is if they made it a VIP only Origin that allowed for more freeform character creation/progression -similar to what is found in the current Incarnate system] |
Maybe like Primary - [Fire Incarnate] Secondary [Weaponry] and fire incarnate would have ranged, control, meelee, sheild/auras within it and you can have X number of powers from all of Firedom. Weaponry would probably be branched or have parts exclusive but allow for multiple weapons like ranged[bow, pistol, ar] meelee[do i need to list?] and shields/auras and as a secondary you could have Y amount which is less than X [though Weapon Incarnate could be your primary and Fire your secondary, so the number of powers available would then be swapped...]...
or that could make the whole game eingine explode, so...
but a new origin would be cool
omgz statesman is gona die!!!
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The choose your own adventure version of chapter 7 could have her hanging it all up to write and perform country music.
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Originally Posted by Kurrent
My prediction for how this arc will play out:
Chapter 4: Ms. Liberty's mom dies Chapter 5: Ms. Liberty's granddad dies Chapter 6: Ms. Liberty's dog dies, her cat runs away and her favorite teacher from school dies Chapter 7: Ms. Liberty single-handedly burns down Grandville, castrates Darren Wade, then kicks Rularuu's a** just to be sure. |
Statesman Dies, Some great hero he was, click the damn 'Go to hospital' button NOOB.
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
What's the point of playing these SSA's blueside? They've been on auto-failure since pretty much the beginning. I'm guessing there's something wrong with the Streak Breaker, because heroes are getting way too many critical failures. On that note, I'd be worried about MARTy if I were a villain. Of course, you could consider simply renaming blueside to City of Losers...
Spoilers:
#1 - Villains steal Synapse's powers for tasty temp powers - Heroes get to watch
#2 - Villains ransom off Numina's father for a tasty temp power - Heroes get to watch
#3 - Villains murder Statesman's spawn - Heroes get to watch
#4 - Villains seal Sister Psycho's persona inside her own head - Heroes get to watch
#5 - Villains kill Statesman and steal his powers - Heroes get to watch
#6 - Villains help Wade become the Death Incarnate in Dark Astoria - Heroes get to watch
#7 - Villains realize they're over their head and get Infernia to restore Hero 1's sanity - Heroes crouch by the corner and cry...
Zwil, I'm seriously tempted to create a blueside hero in Zukunft just so I don't distracted by all the soap drama you keep shoving down my throat. ::Thumbs Down::
P.S. "Daddy, can you fly to heaven?" I'm hoping that semi-quote from the Freedom Phalanx novel means that Statesman is about to pull a Manticore and commit suicide in order to retrieve Alexis from heaven. If it's just more handkerchief marketting I'll be seriously disappointed. Where did all the fun in this game go, it's all funerals and grief lately...
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Paragon actually has a thriving property outside of the DC/Marvel super-corporations, and I've been pulling for the success of this game since the costume creator lawsuit sham - so far as to lampoon it in an AE arc as a huge green lawyer named Bruce Bulk.| This approach is something that's been planned for awhile now, taking a cue from other famous, or infamous, comic book deaths. |
I'm a big fan of this game, which is why I'm a little worried that this is going to turn into a form of bait-and-switch that DC did with Superman.
Don't commit a severely tacky stunt like advertising the death of a heavy hitter to drive up attention, only to bring them back. You're already halfway there.
It's actually the tackiest of stunts, and it's why I had no real interest in Superman for years. Most of my attention has gone to authors who did not feel the need to proclaim an impending death that was already premeditated to be temporary.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I know of at least one person who will feel cheated if you do this.
On a more positive note, if Ms. Libby goes completely insane, it might be fun to see.
@Kyuu
I was surprised at this choice, however, it makes perfect sense. After this is all said and done, Statesman will still be alive and in the game. But he will finally be on equal ground with all the other players.
All great supers go through some form of death story arc to make them more humble and to remind them that not everything is forever.
Several of my threads I have posted have suggested and requested that our characters also be allowed to die, just so we can go through our own death story, only to emerge stronger than we were before. I think this could be done with a itrial featuring emp Cole defeating us at the end of the trial, causing us to "die".
We then, individually, relive several key moments in our life and go through a new 1 - 50 grind (much much faster though, like 4 times exp or something like that) or until we are reborn with new powers and the like.
Gotta go, the wife aka boss is wanting me to leave.
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One would assume the entire point of killing Statesman in arc five means that there's two left for the heroes to win in the end.
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Originally Posted by Zemblanity
What's the point of playing these SSA's blueside? They've been on auto-failure since pretty much the beginning. I'm guessing there's something wrong with the Streak Breaker, because heroes are getting way too many critical failures. On that note, I'd be worried about MARTy if I were a villain. Of course, you could consider simply renaming blueside to City of Losers...
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That's what they said about arc #3, but it seems Alexis' death was not enough. My guess is that neither will Statesman's death, they'll just keep adding corpses in #6 and #7. Gotta keep the bodycount up, 'cause it seems they can't think of anything else to keep things interesting...|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
One would assume the entire point of killing Statesman in arc five means that there's two left for the heroes to win in the end.
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Besides, how do heroes get to "win" in #6 and #7 if people keep dying in the previous arcs? Does arresting the bad guys for a second before they teleport away somehow make things right?
Zombeh!
Get back to work!
*snaps whip*
Or I feed you to Mace...
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Originally Posted by SolarSentai
Maybe Statesman will come back later as a Red Statesman and a Blue Statesman made of pure energy...
Or possibly the essence of Statesman gets transferred into a special ring and a destined one can tap into the power by shouting "ENHANCEMENT DIVERSIFICATION!" complete with lightning strike and transformation. Also, I'm suddenly reminded of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24yn0leXykI /edit... I had just an AWESOME idea. Statesman gets replaced by the ULTIMATE patriot and American: Larry the Cable Guy! |
I'm throwing my lot in with the contingent of players who think that the overall SSA has been pretty good and that revealing now that Statesman will die in chapter 5 ISN'T going to doom the entire arc to failure. Really, there are far too many ways things can go now, especially factoring States' "death" into things, for me to consider this a deal-breaking spoiler.
First, Hero 1. I've seen at least three posters in this thread bring up Hero 1, whom we have to defeat and return to Vanguard as part of becoming an incarnate. We have to create the Lost cure to become a Midnighter. It wouldn't be that big of a stretch for Vanguard, the Midnighters and Argot Bur'Wot to develop a cure for Hero 1 (heck, his blood WAS part of the cure...). That would let Hero 1 step up to an ongoing role in the CoHverse. I could see him getting a TF spot in Peregrine Island, with both a new tf for him and the option to run the old STF. I think he would also provide a fair match for Recluse, keeping the balance of power in check between Paragon City and the Rogue Isles.
So who will take over leadership of the Freedom Phalanx? Well, we've already heard several ideas, but the most likely choice would be Posi. It fits in-game, in canon, symbolically and from a meta- perspective. Hero 1 would also be a valid choice, as would Ms. Liberty. I could also see Sister Psyche stepping into the leadership role as well, BUT I think a move like that would be the end of her and Manticore as a couple. Numina would also be a good choice, because she seems to have one of the best grasps on the Big Picture, particularly on the mystic front. Dark Watcher and Lady Grey would both be capable, but they're not going to leave Vanguard.
As for Statesman being the symbolic face of CoH, why does that have to change? If he dies in a heroic, valiant way, shouldn't that make him and what he stood for even more resonant? I say leave his star as the blueside symbol. Our background art doesn't just have him anyway, it has Sis and Posi representing the heroes too.
There are an endless number of ways this story can go with Statesman's death... if Statesman stays dead. After all, the title of i22 is Death Incarnate, correct? We already know States is an incarnate of Zeus, and Recluse is an incarnate of the titan Tartarus. So what if Statesman sacrifices his life and the incarnate power of Zeus, only to gain the incarnate power of Death itself?
And then we get to Darren Wade, whose ultimate goal may just be the most frightening of all the supervillains (or superheroes).
>>SPOILER ALERT<<< (since I haven't seen this mentioned yet in this thread)
Maybe Statesman dies as part of a plan to find the person who stopped Rularuu from destroying our reality the first time: the Dream Doctor. I remain very suspicious that the Dream Doctor, Pontice Doub and Rularuu are all connected in a profound way that just isn't obvious yet. Both the Dream Doctor and Pontice Doub are credited as founding the Midnight Squad, which could be as simple as they were both co-founders. But it might be something more, too. We know the Dream Doctor trapped Rularuu by using the Dagger of Jocas to somehow create the Shadow Shard; we also learn that Black Swan used the Quills of Jocas (the Praetorian version of the dagger) to create her own Shadow Shard/world which she uses to mystically power herself since Cole essentially cut off the magic in Praetoria. The Quills work by slicing away part of a person's shadow, which is then funneled into Black Swan's shadow realm. It only makes sense the Dagger works the same way, and in fact the Doctor himself says he used the blade to "shave off a piece of myself" when he used it to trap Rularuu. Pontice Doub's memoirs show a mental deterioration throughout its pages, and he is credited with CREATING the Dagger of Jocas. It would make eerie sense that he had used it on himself, either to test its effectiveness or to defeat powerful mystical threats. Maybe that's why his mind began to deteriorate so severely, and why he referred to himself at the end as "a husk". Doub is also the one who found the remains of Tielekku beneath the Sahara Desert, as told in one of the tomes you have to read for the Midnight Archivist badge.
So if Wade's ultimate plan is to free Rularuu and bring him back to our dimension to destroy everything, maybe Statesman dies fighting Rularuu or an aspect of it. Maybe Statesman dies to bring the Dream Doctor back, or to gain even more power than he had as an incarnate of Zeus. Heck, maybe in i22 Lady Grey is going to reveal that she herself is the incarnate of Death! It does make sense, given her powerset and the implication that she might be more powerful than Statesman and Recluse.
Whatever comes of all this, it's got all of us battling emotions, thinking crazy ideas and speculating like mad, and THAT, my fellow heroes and villains, is what a good story does. I'm enjoying this arc, looking forward to last chapters of it, and excited about the possibility of future SSAs being just as dynamic.
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Huh. I've missed those threads, apparently. Episode 4 was my least favorite of the ep's thus far; "stand around and watch people talk" is not my ideal way to spend gaming time. I felt repeatedly pulled out of the action and dumped into Exposition Purgatory.|
Originally Posted by Chyll
(particularly after the generally favaorable ep 4 response I've seen.)
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It certainly advanced the story, but it did so by making me feel more like an observer than a participant.
Different strokes, I guess.
I'm not bothered by knowing any particular character dies (especially after the splash-screen for E3 totally spoiled the death, which was more than made up for by the choice presented my villain). As long as it's done without forcing me to sit around and do nothing, and presents me with real choices and not just dialogue trees that don't let you progress until you get the "right" answer, I suspect I'll like it more than I did E4.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
I just want to go on record saying that I hate, hate, hate, hate, HATE the fact that Statesman is getting killed off. I'm not going to let it sour the arc for me or anything. But I'm one of the very rare people in game who are pro Statesman. Always have been, always will be.
And lets not even start about that chump Praetorian wannabe filling in for him.
'If Champions Online is what "CoH was supposed to be", I'm glad that I have what I have rather than "what it was supposed to be".' - The Alt oholic
"I solo'd Hamidon...but I also totally cheated." - Back Alley Brawler
"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)
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But it does undercut the strength of the in-game story telling. And that is my problem with it. It cheapens their product.
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Originally Posted by Kurrent
I'm throwing my lot in with the contingent of players who think that the overall SSA has been pretty good and that revealing now that Statesman will die in chapter 5 ISN'T going to doom the entire arc to failure. Really, there are far too many ways things can go now, especially factoring States' "death" into things, for me to consider this a deal-breaking spoiler.
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City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
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They said on the UStream broadcast today that Statesman would still be used in promotional artwork, and that he'd very likely remain as the iconic symbol of heroism in the game.
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Originally Posted by Protonic_Flux
I just want to go on record saying that I hate, hate, hate, hate, HATE the fact that Statesman is getting killed off. I'm not going to let it sour the arc for me or anything. But I'm one of the very rare people in game who are pro Statesman. Always have been, always will be.
And lets not even start about that chump Praetorian wannabe filling in for him. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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This. I've been fine with villains winning, but the heroes seem to be able to do NOTHING but always be two steps behind the entire way. Since Statesman's death is a guarantee, it means that nothing you do actually matters, Statesman bites the bullet no matter how well or poor you perform.|
Originally Posted by Zemblanity
What's the point of playing these SSA's blueside? They've been on auto-failure since pretty much the beginning. I'm guessing there's something wrong with the Streak Breaker, because heroes are getting way too many critical failures. On that note, I'd be worried about MARTy if I were a villain. Of course, you could consider simply renaming blueside to City of Losers...
Spoilers: #1 - Villains steal Synapse's powers for tasty temp powers - Heroes get to watch #2 - Villains ransom off Numina's father for a tasty temp power - Heroes get to watch #3 - Villains murder Statesman's spawn - Heroes get to watch #4 - Villains seal Sister Psycho's persona inside her own head - Heroes get to watch #5 - Villains kill Statesman and steal his powers - Heroes get to watch #6 - Villains help Wade become the Death Incarnate in Dark Astoria - Heroes get to watch #7 - Villains realize they're over their head and get Infernia to restore Hero 1's sanity - Heroes crouch by the corner and cry... Zwil, I'm seriously tempted to create a blueside hero in Zukunft just so I don't distracted by all the soap drama you keep shoving down my throat. ::Thumbs Down:: P.S. "Daddy, can you fly to heaven?" I'm hoping that semi-quote from the Freedom Phalanx novel means that Statesman is about to pull a Manticore and commit suicide in order to retrieve Alexis from heaven. If it's just more handkerchief marketting I'll be seriously disappointed. Where did all the fun in this game go, it's all funerals and grief lately... |
Is the point of the SSAs that heroes get to look like idiots who cannot get the job done when the chips are down and lives are on the line? As long as Statesman's death is a Heroic Sacrifice and not a "I get to see a cutscene where's he gunned down like a dog", I'll be happy.
But otherwise these SSAs are just depressing. Again, if Miss Liberty decides to let loose and go to town with the Rogue's Isle, I'm ALL for that. At this point there's almost no suitable compensation besides a total curb-stomp.
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That makes total sense for them to do.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
They said on the UStream broadcast today that Statesman would still be used in promotional artwork, and that he'd very likely remain as the iconic symbol of heroism in the game.
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ಠ_ಠ
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I am pro-Statesman too. This does not mean that I'm blind to his character flaws. But these are flaws which, to me, make him a very convincing Zeus incarnate. The first time I read his origin story in the comic book, it all clicked for me, and much was forgiven. I was impressed to see him played up as the petty Greek god from whom his essence of power was borrowed. And on many occasions, eavesdropping on equally petty banter under Atlas, I have come to see Atlas Square as the top of Primal Earth's modern-day Mount Olympus. Statesman is the icon that Paragon City deserves. Many of our characters are like a new generation of Greek gods, whether by accident or not, and whether we would like to admit it or not. Some of you will know exactly what I mean by this. |
Originally Posted by Protonic_Flux
I just want to go on record saying that I hate, hate, hate, hate, HATE the fact that Statesman is getting killed off. I'm not going to let it sour the arc for me or anything. But I'm one of the very rare people in game who are pro Statesman. Always have been, always will be.
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Still, from a story perspective, Statesman's death isn't such a bad idea. This is an interactive story, and part of the job of saving the world needs to fall squarely on our backs. But I have a feeling that people who loathe comic book tropes will hate the way this shakes out. Statesman will be back one day when we need him the most.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Still reading this thread, but I thought I'd give my two cents anyway. So they revealed Who Will Die early. Big freaking deal. I'm enjoying the arcs cause they are well written and fun. I'm replaying them also cause they offer an easier method of getting incarnate salvage then farming the incarnate trials or grinding mobs for incarnate shards.
When DC Comics killed Superman, the story it's self was really freaking awesome. You KNEW that Superman was going to die at the end. Heck, they advertised it. But the events leading up to his death were in my opinion quite poinent. You also could tell they wouldn't kill a flagship character without somehow bringing him back. The stories leading up to his return were in my opinion also equally well done.
When DC was doing the "death of batman" storyline everyone KNEW it would end with his death. Would he return? DC Comics publically announced that yes, Bruce Waine would would return as Batman. Does that knowledge cheapen the story? No, it didn't. What cheapened the story was how and why Bruce returned, and what happened afterwords. The story of his final days was really good. As was the follow up "Battle for the Cowl" storyline.
I'm mildly disapointed that they did reveal who it is early. But it isn't that big a deal. Play the arcs cause they are fun and well written. Or don't play them. The choice is yours.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
For some reason, this reminds me of this
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Ok I am not sure if this has been addressed yet, so who do we talk to about the STF then? BaB? BaB BaB BaB (holding up a sign chatting that)
So Statesman dies in issue 5....the writer in me is wondering whats gonna happen in issues 6 & 7?
"I believe there's a hero in all of us, that keeps us honest, gives us strength, makes us noble, and finally allows us to die with pride, even though sometimes we have to be steady, and give up the thing we want the most. Even our dreams." Aunt May SM2
i dreamed a dream, but now that dream is gone...good bye Paragon
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Originally Posted by LSK
Ok I am not sure if this has been addressed yet, so who do we talk to about the STF then? BaB? BaB BaB BaB (holding up a sign chatting that)
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Or what does poor Maria ask us to do now?
edit: they did say they have a lot of content to rework due to the death. It will be interesting to see how that arc shifts and the timing of when Statesman is supposed to die in the Praetorian time line...
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
I'm curious myself to see what happens to Maria's Arc as well as the STF and LRSF. Also wondering if they removed Mrs. Liberty from that one villian arc where you had to defeat her and Ms. Liberty... gonna have to look that one up and check it out...
Though I can say this... Hey LR, grab the cronies... it's time to play in AP.
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I can't see those arc's changing as they are in the "past" and Who Will Die is in the "present" time of the game.
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Originally Posted by Ghantana
I'm curious myself to see what happens to Maria's Arc as well as the STF and LRSF. Also wondering if they removed Mrs. Liberty from that one villian arc where you had to defeat her and Ms. Liberty... gonna have to look that one up and check it out...
Though I can say this... Hey LR, grab the cronies... it's time to play in AP. |
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