Would You Be Willing to Delay the Lore Slot to Change the Pets?
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-03-02 22:56 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Generic ones that can be interpreted in a greater number of ways.|
Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
Don't want Praetorian pets? Well, what should they be then?
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I could probably come up with dozens of them if I really had to.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
I've always thought the IDF battle orbs look pretty awesome sooooo no, I would not want to delay this for whatever reason you all feel entitled to.
Currently on Virtue:
Jinrazuo - Crab Spider
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Well, it was supposed to be a sneak peek at what the slot was about. It was billed as such. It was a peek at the mechanics, but some couldn't abide a purely mechanistic addition to the game without an accompanying story and so they complained long and loud and in many threads (sound familiar?). Those of us who disagreed with that never countered them because we thought, "surely the Devs aren't going to give into this!" But they did.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I can't say why the Alpha slot was ultimately delayed with certainty, but I can say why I was one of the people that voted to at least consider delaying it if not necessarily actually delaying it as it ultimately was. The problem wasn't something trivial like "there's no story attached to it." The problem was I could see the flailing around that was happening trying to make ad hoc ways of integrating Alpha into the main game as the bridge content between the standard game and the incarnate end game. And it was creating a situation where players would quickly get burned out farming shards through mass kills without anything to actually use the Alpha slot on. Psychologically speaking, that would have been a bad way to launch the slot. Some people wouldn't care, at least in the short run, but it would give a lot of players the wrong impression about what the whole point of the entire system was. And even if attempts were made to correct that downstream, that doesn't always work. Once a first impression is made, it can be extremely difficult to overturn it. The huge uncontrolled farming opportunities that existed in the AE at launch and were not instantly remediated created a first impression that in my opinion poisons the image of the AE to this day. It was seen as an accelerated reward earning platform, and when it was "fixed" it became valueless in the eyes of many, because its original primary usage was nullified.
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And when it finally was released with its 'story', it was still just the first two tiers of the Alpha Slot, which was pretty much unchanged from its sneak peek status.
I'm not sure what you mean that the first two slots had 'nothing to use it on'... a universal enhancement that is usable on any 45+ content is quite useful. It wasn't a game changer for Apex or Tin Man TFs in I19. The only thing different was Ramiel's arc... which had its own whine-fest attached to it (aren't they glad they got their 'story'?).
AE was a huge system dump with lots of areas for things to go wrong since it was an entirely new set of leveling up reward system partially put into the hands of players. The two tiers of Alpha, however, was just a toe in the water at sneak peek time (Going Rogue release) and the very same toe in the water when it was finally released (I19). I don't see how they're comparable.
The delay was over 'story', not mechanics. Lack of story was what the rabble decried. It's what Positron said was the reason it was delayed. And when it finally debuted, the 'story' was the only thing that was different. It was the story -- one four mission story which made everything perfect!
Lore Slot has a story... people should be happy!
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Well I sort of dislike the Concept of "Incarnates" entirely. Something connected to origin would have been more open to everybody, explored a background thing nobody really cared about (ala Incarnates) and would have made Player Characters feel more individually important.
edit: I forgot about the "Origin of Power" >.< Got-Darnit!
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
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I'll miss you all.
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Yes, very much. It's the only part about the whole Incarnate thing I'm not interested in at all. First of all I don't care much for a pet as an Incarnate power, and making it connected to Praetoria just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Would You Be Willing to Delay the Lore Slot to Change the Pets?
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Floating orbs of power.
That's what I'd prefer.
Floating orbs of glowy goodness. You can take that to mean essence, or some power from an artefact, or from the well, or what have you.
Zortel is now my most favorite Good-poster. You all need to work harder to compete
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
Don't like the pets, but no delay.
A delay means other stuff gets put on the back burner. Since LORE pets are a power that means the powers team is wrapped up redoing LORE and not giving me Illusion Dominators. So no delay.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I agree with the lizard. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Don't like the pets, but no delay.
A delay means other stuff gets put on the back burner. Since LORE pets are a power that means the powers team is wrapped up redoing LORE and not giving me Illusion Dominators. So no delay. |
The Powers team has been tied up on this Incarnate stuff long enough, set them free so we can have more proliferation.
I'd be fine with a delay.
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Maybe.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Just curious about this. I know that the alpha slot was delayed for a few months to change it up. Obviously I have no experience with the Lore slot directly, but if there is truth to the claim that it grants us Praetorian pets, it would be worth the wait to me to change it. Or leave it be and add other pets as well. I don't want to be too negative about it, but my feeling about the concept of Praetorian pets as a power selection is that it's a terrible idea.
This is assuming there isn't another option on the table for us. E.g. I would be willing to trade the pet power for 2 or 3 extra enhancement slots, as long as I got the level shift. Obviously I don't know everything that is planned, but I am very much not pleased by the Praet concept. In fact, the less future content has to do with Praetoria the better. I'm curious about whether other people would also be ok with slot being delayed to "fix" it to something more appropriate, whatever that is. This is not an attempt to enforce that change on people, but hopefully to register just how unimpressed I am with this power from a concept standpoint. |
It depends on how long of a wait, if we get the other incarnate slots without waiting, and what they change.
If the only thing they change is that i can make my pet purple, then I'd rather they go ahead and put it in as is and change it later.
If they change it to a fully customizable pet (colors, costume, the works), but I have to wait another year, then I'd rather they put it in now and change it later.
If they make it some other power . . . that only raises more questions.
I think I talked myself out of it. Put them in as is and then add customization and/or more pet variety later.
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No delay for cosmetic changes. Put 'em in now. Add more options later.
I say no delay. And I actually like the Praetorian pets.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
At this point, they're not likely to delay the slot. They've got their stuff scheduled for I20, and barring any serious issues (and the Alpha slot delay was because of serious issues, not just story concerns), they're going to deliver it.
For those who want to help make it clear to the devs you want something else as soon as they can find the dev resources for it?
Once the issue releases, unlock the slot, then put NOTHING in it. Don't craft any Lore powers, keep the slot empty, well past the time you obviously COULD put something in it. Vote with your characters.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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Just to point out one small thing...
From what I can remember of the Lore interface and reading the texts, You would have to customise 3 different pets for *each* Lore Type....
So for those saying "oh its just *one* pet"... it isnt.
And I am pretty damn sure that the same technological problems that affect MM's and their pets, are the same ones that would be affecting this level of customisation (and also why you cannot customise your Phantom Army as mirrors of you).
Would I delay the whole issue for this?
No.
But I would *love* to see it come at some point (as a wishful dream)
There's probably a very good gameplay reason the Lore slot uses Praetorian enemies and not customizable pets, having customizable pets would be far too difficult to balance. Think about it this way. Say the Lore slot gave players an option to create their own pets, using the same interface as the AE critter creation system. You would end up with some well crafted pets, but you would also have a ton of kinetics pets running around that did nothing but cast Speed Boost and Fulcrum shift, and a ton of wimpy pets running around that do nothing except throw out a few blasts then die. Simply put, giving players customization over these pets would allow for way too many game breaking possibilities.
Now on the other hand, say they gave us access to a bunch of other enemies. Those would also have to be balanced around the existing Praetorian enemies in order to keep them from being too weak or too powerful, which would end up creating a ton of more work for the devs that would probably be better spent somewhere else.
People, you have to stop acting like the developers are terrible writers and the quality of the writing in this game has nothing to do with the game itself. It is damn hard to get gameplay and story to go perfectly hand in hand, and if a compromise has to be made, then gameplay should really always come first. In a perfect world they would always live in perfect harmony, but this is not a perfect world, the Devs do not have unlimited money and time, and it's far easier for them to give you Praetorians as pets and justify it in universe, rather than let you customize every little nuance of your pet just so you can have your story exactly the way you want it.
Most of my toons wont take Lore... even the ones that use pets.. I just dont like the idea and it doesnt fit well with most of my character concepts.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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this would be a great idea!! similar to the 48 month vet pet , blue and red Wisp |
Originally Posted by Zortel
Floating orbs of power.
That's what I'd prefer. Floating orbs of glowy goodness. You can take that to mean essence, or some power from an artefact, or from the well, or what have you. |
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/File:Blue_Wisp_Pet.jpg
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I hate those wisps.
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Originally Posted by KAKTOS
this would be a great idea!! similar to the 48 month vet pet , blue and red Wisp
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/File:Blue_Wisp_Pet.jpg |
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Yep. It's all getting tied in with Marcus Cole and the Amazing Insane Dancing Well. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Squid
There's probably a very good gameplay reason the Lore slot uses Praetorian enemies and not customizable pets
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Delay it? I'm ignoring it either way, so they can do whatever they want.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Since LORE pets are a power that means the powers team is wrapped up redoing LORE and not giving me Illusion Dominators.
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When they finally gives me the precious, I'm going to name him Memphis Stalker, and follow you around casting Phantom Army! |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Probably the best argument FOR a delay I've ever heard. Illusion doms... ugh.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Now I'm tempted to do an MA story arc where Little Marcus O'Cole gets stuck down the well and you've to send your love down to him, with the aid of a hack-clown and an earnest faded 80s rock-star.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Yep. It's all getting tied in with Marcus Cole and the Amazing Insane Dancing Well.
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| Probably the best argument FOR a delay I've ever heard. Illusion doms... ugh. |
Me? Not really. Doesn't bug me that much, and frankly the calls to uncouple Incarnate system from the Well/Praetoria storyline are something I'm actively against. I don't think it would be well served to draw out the time between issues even more painfully than they are now.
Let's Dance!
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Hey, it's my reaction to Illusion Controllers as well. (Yes, I have played/am currently trying to deal with them. Highest is 42 or so. Cannot STAND them. Despise the set.)
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Ze boo et le hiss! |
My main concern is that once we take down Cole in-story, what are the odds that the Lore slot will change to reflect that? If I'm able to tap into a greater amount of the Well's power than previously, and the Well's champion has been defeated (presumably by me), then one would think that I'd be able to shape the Well's power into something other than Praetorian NPCs. Unfortunately, I don't see the available NPC choices ever changing as that would really suck for players who've put a lot of time and effort into crafting their way up the Lore tree. And something tells me there won't be a second slot later on that gives pets.
Still, I'd rather go with the current choice that CAN be backed up by the story and keep development on schedule than pull the slot while the devs divert extra resources and try in vain to satisfy players who've presented no alternatives other than "No Praetorians" and "Fully customizable".
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."