Would You Be Willing to Delay the Lore Slot to Change the Pets?
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-03-02 22:56 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Premonitions
Lucky666 you are my favorite horrible forum poster ever
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your welcome? XD LOL
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I think you're his favorite - in all capacities.
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
your welcome? XD LOL
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I dont think its a case of RPers caring only. I don't class myself as an RPer, but look at the choices my Demon summoning Mastermind has?|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
lol this is what you get for being a rper and caring wear powers come from. Their new powers we get so no I wouldn't want them delaying anything cause some people don't think they fit in there characters storyline. No one cares about your characters story but you.(general you)
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Maybe I will grab a seer as it could vaguely be swung to suite her powers.
Its kind of along the lines as I wouldnt have a character with a gun, who can throw fireballs, can cover themselves in random dark energy for protection, can read minds and rides a motorbike made out of dinosaur bones.
Its not a case of RP, its a case of wanting concept stuff to vaguely fit. Yet at the same time, im sure a brilliant RPer could justify the above character...
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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i doubt it would really benefit anything. there are always going to be arguments about the quality of this feature or that, and being stuck in an endless look of reaction is a good way to become permanently paralyzed by indecision and increasingly vocal minorities. I'm not overly enthused about them being limited to praetorians, but since i havent read the lore surrounding it yet, i cant make a decision based rationally on whether its good or not, those already reacting do not seem to be interested in giving feedback so much as protesting the continued use of praetoria, and outside of radically changing the storyline, there isn't going to be much to fix that.
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I think you're moving a bit too quickly - you need to find out if he has feelings for you first, and then make your move |
Originally Posted by Premonitions
If you start ending ALL your posts with the "XD" emote, you'd be perfect
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@Golden Girl
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Any of those would be preferable to the current options.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
/Sign for more options for Lore. Some vanquished Rikti, Malta, Paragon Police, Nemesis, etc. would be nice.
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Sure, if you want to delay the Lore slot for God-knows however long it'll take to implement that. If those features weren't difficult to properly implement, don't you think Masterminds would've already had them?|
Originally Posted by Heartbreaker
Yes. I'd rather see something that gives us at the very least different skin options to choose from on these pets, if not full-fledged customization.
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You can't just cut and paste part of one system (for example: the character creator or custom critter interface found in the MA) into another system (say, Mastermind pets) and expect everything to jibe. Hell, the devs tried to get MM pet customization going back when they were putting power customization together and couldn't get it to work right.
Sadly, I think the Lore pets issue really isn't about them being Praetorian NPCs as much as it is players expecting - DEMANDING, in some cases - far too much without realizing the work that must be put into things, or the limitations that the developers might face when attempting to do certain things. As I pointed out earlier, even if the devs were to change the Lore pets into something else, what would they change them into? Would it even be possible for them to come up with a group alternatives that satisfied a large portion of the playerbase without having to make substantial changes to the Incarnate UI, and maybe the entire Incarnate system as a whole? And if not, would it be worth it in terms of time and developer resources to put other things on hold for however long it would take to make these changes to one Incarnate slot?
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
Yup I honestly wouldn't mind a delay.
Paragon PD is fairly generic heroic option, infact you can have a Psicop as the buffing pet and give it the same powers as the Seer buffing pet, make a beat cop the minion, a Swat Officer (Swat Equalizer would be a bit too far, those debuffing gits) for Lieutenant and PPD Hardsuit for the boss.
See that doesn't look too hard to quickly turn around and make an option for the Lore slot.
That's the thing, Issue 20 is quickly arriving, we need groups that are generic enough to suit a role but easy enough to be implemented quickly.
Arachnos is another easily insertable one, Spiderling minion, Blaster lieutenant, Toxic Tarantula boss, Buffing Fortunata with same powers as Seer buffing pet.
To be fair instead of just replacing the Praetorian ones, just expand the options instead of the starting 4, open it up to starting 8. Warwork, Clockwork, IDF, Seers, PPD, Arachnos and two others.
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For me, it's entirely because they're Praetorian NPCs. Granted, we don't know how the pets are going to be worked into the Incarnate lore... but as it stands, ONLY Praetorian pets makes NO sense. It's also very strange that when it's been explicitly stated over and over that costumes/auras/powersets are designed to cover as wide a range of concepts as possible, the DEVs would then choose to lock ALL Incarnate players into one very narrow concept. Yes, the entire Incarnate system is narrow-ish (all stemming from the Well), but can at least be applied to any given character. |
Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
Sure, if you want to delay the Lore slot for God-knows however long it'll take to implement that. If those features weren't difficult to properly implement, don't you think Masterminds would've already had them?
You can't just cut and paste part of one system (for example: the character creator or custom critter interface found in the MA) into another system (say, Mastermind pets) and expect everything to jibe. Hell, the devs tried to get MM pet customization going back when they were putting power customization together and couldn't get it to work right. Sadly, I think the Lore pets issue really isn't about them being Praetorian NPCs as much as it is players expecting - DEMANDING, in some cases - far too much without realizing the work that must be put into things, or the limitations that the developers might face when attempting to do certain things. As I pointed out earlier, even if the devs were to change the Lore pets into something else, what would they change them into? Would it even be possible for them to come up with alternatives that satisfied a large portion of the playerbase? |
What exactly will my ancient sorcerer, enhanced Lich or death god call on for a pet... that makes any sense at all to lolRP? Sure, no NPC concept is going to cover everything, but the "broad themes" designs used for costumes and powers really should be coming into play in the Incarnate system as well.
Praetorians. Are. Narrow.
More than happy to see Lore slot delayed if we can totally customize the look of our pet/sidekick. I don't mean just a little but from scratch just like we do with our toons in the costume creator. I'd be ok if we couldn't color powers etc but the look of the pet is key.
I would be fine if they delayed just the lore slot or all of i20 or the entire incarnate system. So far this new system is very so so to me. We are drowned in Praetoria crap. It has been steady and non-stop. Enough already.
Yes. Most definitely. I have enough to deal with getting rare to very rare alphas on 8+ 50s. 
I'd prefer the ability to either customize the image of the pet somehow or pick different and wider amount of groups other than Praetorian and would be very willing to wait for either. Maybe get it mixed in with customizing MM and Illusion pets? One can dream. :P
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The pets are the essence of defeated enmies that you draw from the Well - if the only essence that cna be drawn from the Well is from Incarnate powered enemies, then you're only going to get Praetorian options, as they're the only Incarnate powered enemies we've fought so far - unless you want a Statesman/Recluse/Reichsman pet too |
Originally Posted by Genesis Man
For me, it's entirely because they're Praetorian NPCs. Granted, we don't know how the pets are going to be worked into the Incarnate lore... but as it stands, ONLY Praetorian pets makes NO sense. It's also very strange that when it's been explicitly stated over and over that costumes/auras/powersets are designed to cover as wide a range of concepts as possible, the DEVs would then choose to lock ALL Incarnate players into one very narrow concept. Yes, the entire Incarnate system is narrow-ish (all stemming from the Well), but can at least be applied to any given character.
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| Praetorians. Are. Narrow. |
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Originally Posted by TheJazMan
We are drowned in Praetoria crap. It has been steady and non-stop. Enough already.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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There actually IS a reason why the Incarnate pets are Praetorians. But it's more implied than outright stated, which very well could be counted as an error in judgment on the part of the story folks at PS:|
Originally Posted by Genesis Man
For me, it's entirely because they're Praetorian NPCs. Granted, we don't know how the pets are going to be worked into the Incarnate lore... but as it stands, ONLY Praetorian pets makes NO sense. It's also very strange that when it's been explicitly stated over and over that costumes/auras/powersets are designed to cover as wide a range of concepts as possible, the DEVs would then choose to lock ALL Incarnate players into one very narrow concept. Yes, the entire Incarnate system is narrow-ish (all stemming from the Well), but can at least be applied to any given character.
What exactly will my ancient sorcerer, enhanced Lich or death god call on for a pet... that makes any sense at all to lolRP? Sure, no NPC concept is going to cover everything, but the "broad themes" designs used for costumes and powers really should be coming into play in the Incarnate system as well. Praetorians. Are. Narrow. |
The Well of the Furies has chosen Emperor Marcus Cole as its champion. Everything related to him and Praetoria has been granted additional power by the Well. The Well is focused on helping Cole to succeed in his plans of multiversal domination. Now, those characters who have begun their path as Incarnates also tap into part of the Well, albeit a much smaller part. Between the Well favoring Emperor Cole and the fact that our Incarnate characters are also entwined with Cole and Praetoria (what with having to hold off an invasion while engaging in counter-attacks), it does kinda make sense that if we were to try and focus the Well's power into beings, that those beings would likely take the form of the Praetorian enemies we've been fighting and whom are under the command of Emperor Cole.
Like I said, I don't think this is explicitly stated anywhere. But it's by no means a stretch, and would explain why an Eldritch mage can't summon forth a dragon, a ninja can't summon forth a bunch of tengu, or why VEATs can't summon forth Arachnos troops.
This is just one of those unfortunate cases where story trumps player choice.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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There is NO NEED for the story to trump player choice. The Lore slot could mean the lore of our character and not of the game. Character customizations is a big selling feature of this game - let's keep on that path. There is nothing saying the devs can't slightly alter the story behind the lore slot before it is released. |
Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
There actually IS a reason why the Incarnate pets are Praetorians. But it's more implied than outright stated, which very well could be counted as an error in judgment on the part of the story folks at PS:
The Well of the Furies has chosen Emperor Marcus Cole as its champion. Everything related to him and Praetoria has been granted additional power by the Well. The Well is focused on helping Cole to succeed in his plans of multiversal domination. Now, those characters who have begun their path as Incarnates also tap into part of the Well, albeit a much smaller part. Between the Well favoring Emperor Cole and the fact that our Incarnate characters are also entwined with Cole and Praetoria (what with having to hold off an invasion while engaging in counter-attacks), it does kinda make sense that if we were to try and focus the Well's power into beings, that those beings would likely take the form of the Praetorian enemies we've been fighting and whom are under the command of Emperor Cole. Like I said, I don't think this is explicitly stated anywhere. But it's by no means a stretch, and would explain why an Eldritch mage can't summon forth a dragon, a ninja can't summon forth a bunch of tengu, or why VEATs can't summon forth Arachnos troops. This is just one of those unfortunate cases where story trumps player choice. |
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Only if your game is a sandbox. If your game has a story, then progression of that story and integration of player actions into that story are of paramount importance. Sometimes, this means that players cannot always do or get what they want. |
Originally Posted by TheJazMan
There is NO NEED for the story to trump player choice.
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And no, the customer isn't always right, either.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
wonder if the Lore pets will come with whacked out AI too
http://www.scene-and-heard.com/cov/covsig.jpg
Oh, this thread is rich.
The Alpha Slot was delayed because there was no 'story' tied to the mechanic.
Now people want the Lore Slot delayed because there *is* a 'story' tied to the mechanic.
Let me lock you in the room with the folks that delayed the Alpha Slot so you all can fight each other over it.
And boo hoo. Some of you don't like the story. Too bad. Like there was going to be any story you all would like.
And GBE's point is absolutely true. No matter which set of pets were chosen, they're be players whining it didn't include what they want. So, hold up Lore until their pet pets are included!
How about... make them customizable! Um... yeah. If they had that tech available, don't you think they would first apply it to... I don't know... MASTERMINDS?!
So, no. Delaying Lore for unreasonable expectations and a no-win scenario would be a colossal mistake.
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Honestly, the more I think about it, the less I like the entire premise.
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
There actually IS a reason why the Incarnate pets are Praetorians. But it's more implied than outright stated, which very well could be counted as an error in judgment on the part of the story folks at PS:
The Well of the Furies has chosen Emperor Marcus Cole as its champion. Everything related to him and Praetoria has been granted additional power by the Well. The Well is focused on helping Cole to succeed in his plans of multiversal domination. Now, those characters who have begun their path as Incarnates also tap into part of the Well, albeit a much smaller part. Between the Well favoring Emperor Cole and the fact that our Incarnate characters are also entwined with Cole and Praetoria (what with having to hold off an invasion while engaging in counter-attacks), it does kinda make sense that if we were to try and focus the Well's power into beings, that those beings would likely take the form of the Praetorian enemies we've been fighting and whom are under the command of Emperor Cole. Like I said, I don't think this is explicitly stated anywhere. But it's by no means a stretch, and would explain why an Eldritch mage can't summon forth a dragon, a ninja can't summon forth a bunch of tengu, or why VEATs can't summon forth Arachnos troops. This is just one of those unfortunate cases where story trumps player choice. |
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Please tell me this isn't true. PLEASE tell me this isn't true.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
The Alpha Slot was delayed because there was no 'story' tied to the mechanic.
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Yep.
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| Would You Be Willing to Delay the Lore Slot to Change the Pets? |
Yes, I would.
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I can't say why the Alpha slot was ultimately delayed with certainty, but I can say why I was one of the people that voted to at least consider delaying it if not necessarily actually delaying it as it ultimately was. The problem wasn't something trivial like "there's no story attached to it." The problem was I could see the flailing around that was happening trying to make ad hoc ways of integrating Alpha into the main game as the bridge content between the standard game and the incarnate end game. And it was creating a situation where players would quickly get burned out farming shards through mass kills without anything to actually use the Alpha slot on. Psychologically speaking, that would have been a bad way to launch the slot. Some people wouldn't care, at least in the short run, but it would give a lot of players the wrong impression about what the whole point of the entire system was. And even if attempts were made to correct that downstream, that doesn't always work. Once a first impression is made, it can be extremely difficult to overturn it. The huge uncontrolled farming opportunities that existed in the AE at launch and were not instantly remediated created a first impression that in my opinion poisons the image of the AE to this day. It was seen as an accelerated reward earning platform, and when it was "fixed" it became valueless in the eyes of many, because its original primary usage was nullified.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
The Alpha Slot was delayed because there was no 'story' tied to the mechanic.
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When you make mistakes like that, sometimes you never get a chance to completely fix them. I'm not sure I would vote to delay Lore: the difference here is that I don't see a mechanical problem to solve that is likely solvable in any reasonable time. The core complaint looks like something that would require totally rethinking massive amounts of backstory that is already deep in the pipeline, and customization is likely to be potentially very time consuming as well without completely addressing the issue either. Given that, I'm not sure the delay would be worth it. But I can understand the objection nonetheless.
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I dont like the pets being Praetorian mobs.
If we HAVE to got an Incarnate power to summon buffs pets, that should be:
A tailor customizable pet or
A mirror of our current avatar, using current doppelganger tech.
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