Would You Be Willing to Delay the Lore Slot to Change the Pets?
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-03-02 22:56 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Also this. For those that want more power prolif think about that for a second.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Don't like the pets, but no delay.
A delay means other stuff gets put on the back burner. Since LORE pets are a power that means the powers team is wrapped up redoing LORE and not giving me Illusion Dominators. So no delay. |
AGAIN, best option is to release as is and add more later. OR add GENERIC pets as an option to one of the slots after destiny. Stick it on OMEGA if necessary. (Which after issue 20 is no longer that far away.
)
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This, absolutely this. I don't want any NPC at all. There is no reason my hero would have a villain npc following behind. |
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
Generic ones that can be interpreted in a greater number of ways.
I could probably come up with dozens of them if I really had to. |
Make it different colored versions of the wisp and I'll be fine. Just not what it currently is.
As has been said, this game has been all about customization, why change that now? At least give us something generic enough that we can call it what we want.
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I don't care if they delay the entire mess. I remember a time when the devs wouldn't release things until it was good. Please don't start now releasing just to be getting stuff out the door. So my vote... Delay and get this right.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
Hehe Aura_Familia thinks there will be Kheldian customization.
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I don't classify myself as an RPer either. But damn, does it grate every time I see that Arachnos patron's logo appear on my back. I don't need to be reminded, thank you very much, of the lameo source of a power I only took because no thematically suitable option was available that did what I wanted mechanically.|
Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie
I dont think its a case of RPers caring only. I don't class myself as an RPer, but look at the choices my Demon summoning Mastermind has?
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
Only if your game is a sandbox. If your game has a story, then progression of that story and integration of player actions into that story are of paramount importance. Sometimes, this means that players cannot always do or get what they want.
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That story was far more visible than the Praetorian invasion, which is supposed to be this huge world-shattering threat but so far only affects Incarnates and people who do one of two Task Forces. The average hero in the streets has no indication this invasion is even happening. The sky isn't turning green and the War Walls aren't coming down. It has less of an effect on the game world, but it's important enough to merit tying our powers to it?
Never mind that "the game isn't a sandbox" is flawed reasoning, considering the game mostly has been a sandbox up until now. The one time they've limited player concepts to suit their plot (Arachnos, the Destined One, and the patrons) there was much complaining that persists to this day.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
The Alpha Slot was delayed because there was no 'story' tied to the mechanic.
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
Still, I'd rather go with the current choice that CAN be backed up by the story and keep development on schedule than pull the slot while the devs divert extra resources and try in vain to satisfy players who've presented no alternatives other than "No Praetorians" and "Fully customizable".
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Originally Posted by Premonitions
edit: I forgot about the "Origin of Power" >.< Got-Darnit!
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Is this the same dev team that released an enhancement system so unbalanced that the fix was large enough to warrant its own name and took a year and a half to roll out?
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Originally Posted by Draugadan
This, absolutely this. I don't want any NPC at all. There is no reason my hero would have a villain npc following behind.
Make it different colored versions of the wisp and I'll be fine. Just not what it currently is. As has been said, this game has been all about customization, why change that now? At least give us something generic enough that we can call it what we want. Edit: I don't care if they delay the entire mess. I remember a time when the devs wouldn't release things until it was good. Please don't start now releasing just to be getting stuff out the door. So my vote... Delay and get this right. |
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No, that was mostly a bunch of other people.
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Originally Posted by LISAR
Is this the same dev team that released an enhancement system so unbalanced that the fix was large enough to warrant its own name and took a year and a half to roll out?
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Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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Oh, so was it the dev team that released a paid for booster pack that was causing people to experience multiple disconnects somehow related to the "one cape" rule violations it allowed?
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Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
No, that was mostly a bunch of other people.
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Nah. I don't like most of the pets in the game now. From Mastermind pets to PPP pets to Vet reward pets, very few of them fit my concepts perfectly, so what's one more set of pets I don't really embrace?
| Would You Be Willing to Delay the Lore Slot to Change the Pets? |
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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Originally Posted by LISAR
Hehe Aura_Familia thinks there will be Kheldian customization.
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I can dream can't I?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Power Proliferation is a Powers issue. The appearance of the pets is an art and animation issue. What do you want them to do, animate you an Illusion Dom? The pets' mechanics aren't the issue for a lot of people. They can get art and animation redoing the look of the pets, while the powers team gets cracking on the Martial Arts Blaster secondary |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Don't like the pets, but no delay.
A delay means other stuff gets put on the back burner. Since LORE pets are a power that means the powers team is wrapped up redoing LORE and not giving me Illusion Dominators. So no delay. |
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Originally Posted by Mr_Squid
There's probably a very good gameplay reason the Lore slot uses Praetorian enemies and not customizable pets, having customizable pets would be far too difficult to balance....
Now on the other hand, say they gave us access to a bunch of other enemies. Those would also have to be balanced around the existing Praetorian enemies in order to keep them from being too weak or too powerful, which would end up creating a ton of more work for the devs that would probably be better spent somewhere else. |
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| People, you have to stop acting like the developers are terrible writers and the quality of the writing in this game has nothing to do with the game itself. |
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| It is damn hard to get gameplay and story to go perfectly hand in hand, and if a compromise has to be made, then gameplay should really always come first. |
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
AGAIN, best option is to release as is and add more later. OR add GENERIC pets as an option to one of the slots after destiny. Stick it on OMEGA if necessary. (Which after issue 20 is no longer that far away.
) |
Adding another pet does nothing but add another pet. For people who don't like pets, that's two Incarnate slots that are now useless to them. For people who don't like Praetorian pets, one of the pets will still be Praetorian. And the Lore slot includes a level shift, which future Incarnate content will be balanced around, so unless another slot gets a level shift that doesn't stack with the Lore slot's level shift you will be gimping yourself by not taking the stupid pet.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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You might eventually be able to customize your Kheldian to look like a Praetorian one.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I can dream can't I? |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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You're first paragraph was my point. Customization for these Incarnate Pets is unimportant for now, as the REST of non-level 50 only areas that need it aren't done yet. Like PPPs.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
So if I log in right now I'll get the option to customize my Scorpion Shield, because they kept working on power customization after it was released in an incomplete state?
Adding another pet does nothing but add another pet. For people who don't like pets, that's two Incarnate slots that are now useless to them. For people who don't like Praetorian pets, one of the pets will still be Praetorian. And the Lore slot includes a level shift, which future Incarnate content will be balanced around, so unless another slot gets a level shift that doesn't stack with the Lore slot's level shift you will be gimping yourself by not taking the stupid pet. |
If they want to add more pets fine. But I don't think they should delay the slot for it, for it might not just be just that slot that's delayed.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I'd vote for a delay, but this isn't really so much of an issue about pets or whatever, but it's the thrust of why the Incarnate System exists in the first place.
To me, pets that have powers are interchangeable things with animations that should be customisable.
Honestly, if the point of the Incarnate System is to achieve 'godly levels of power' or however the game or you as the player want to explain it, there's an expected level of customisation or signature ability display (and really, didn't this start with people saying 'hey, Statesman has that cool lightning power, how can we do that?') then why can't you as the player have some say in just how that manifests?
Currently as it stands, the way you spend your shards to get the Alpha power of your choice (and to be fair, you have a good range of choices) has a desired level of flexibility. You want Damage/Defense, you can specialise in that. Great.
It's fine that this continues into the Lore slot, but why tie a system that's obstensibly about customisation and mixing these Incarnate Abilities to something that is extremely visually specific? I don't want one of the biggest threats to Primal Earth's pets. That's like saying 'hey, well those Nazis over there? We need to stop them, so we'll use Nazis too.' If we're drawing on the power of the Well and that implies some degree of ability to use it, then let us have the choice of what we draw upon. I could care less about the mechanical/gameplay effects...they can be the same, and we know this from seeing the Mastermind pets.
Don't throw away customisation this late in the game to feed the beast that is the Praetorian storyline. There's stuff beyond Praetoria; let's have a stepping stone on that road not be so closely tied to it rather than be tied to the greater story, that of the road of the Incarnate.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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*insert Angryo pic here* |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You might eventually be able to customize your Kheldian to look like a Praetorian one.
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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Statesman didn't choose to do that power the well forced it upon him.
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Originally Posted by SuperOz
...and really, didn't this start with people saying 'hey, Statesman has that cool lightning power, how can we do that?')...
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I'm not sure this could have been said any better. |
Originally Posted by SuperOz
I'd vote for a delay, but this isn't really so much of an issue about pets or whatever, but it's the thrust of why the Incarnate System exists in the first place.
To me, pets that have powers are interchangeable things with animations that should be customisable. Honestly, if the point of the Incarnate System is to achieve 'godly levels of power' or however the game or you as the player want to explain it, there's an expected level of customisation or signature ability display (and really, didn't this start with people saying 'hey, Statesman has that cool lightning power, how can we do that?') then why can't you as the player have some say in just how that manifests? Currently as it stands, the way you spend your shards to get the Alpha power of your choice (and to be fair, you have a good range of choices) has a desired level of flexibility. You want Damage/Defense, you can specialise in that. Great. It's fine that this continues into the Lore slot, but why tie a system that's obstensibly about customisation and mixing these Incarnate Abilities to something that is extremely visually specific? I don't want one of the biggest threats to Primal Earth's pets. That's like saying 'hey, well those Nazis over there? We need to stop them, so we'll use Nazis too.' If we're drawing on the power of the Well and that implies some degree of ability to use it, then let us have the choice of what we draw upon. I could care less about the mechanical/gameplay effects...they can be the same, and we know this from seeing the Mastermind pets. Don't throw away customisation this late in the game to feed the beast that is the Praetorian storyline. There's stuff beyond Praetoria; let's have a stepping stone on that road not be so closely tied to it rather than be tied to the greater story, that of the road of the Incarnate. S. |
This doesn't have to be difficult. If this is just a buff pet, then give us something generic like a wisp and be done with it. Just don't force villain NPCs on us, praetorian or not. It just doesn't make sense.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Not really my point. We saw him doing the lightning thing long before the backstory of the Well came up. We just saw him and others doing their signature power thing and said 'hey, can we play with the big kids too? We want customisable signature powers!' |
Originally Posted by LISAR
Statesman didn't choose to do that power the well forced it upon him.
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Presumably the ideas of the Incarnate System came out of that.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
If it means Issue 20 is delayed? No. Absolutely not. And I'm not even sure I'd be for delaying that particular slot if it was even possible. I have to side with GBE on this one. This is the direction the overall story is taking (whether we like it or not) and in the context of the Incarnate system we've been given, there is a reason these pets are what they are. Is it what I personally picture for an incarnate? Not really, and I understand (to an extent) why people don't like it. And while we all want our characters to be our characters we also have to accept that there are times (cue Mick Jagger) you can't always get what you want. It's true in life and it's true here.
While we all probably had our own ideas of what the Incarnate system would be, that's just not what we got. It is directly tied to the activities of Preatoria. The reason we are getting these powers is to deal with Cole. The system is all about fighting Cole (at this point). So if you're sick of Preatorian stuff and choose not to participate in Incarnate storyline or don't like TFs or Raids or forced teaming, then you don't need any of this anyway. If you want to do all of that, yet can't fathom the concept of the pets, then I guess don't use them. That seems to be an option. I just hope those pets aren't vital to succeeding in tasks as that will open a whole other can of worms on raids. 'We need more pets'.........'Sorry, don't have them. Wrong concept'..........Mission Failed! Is the petless Incarnate the new petless mastermind? We don't really know that answer, yet. I hope not.
If the system is a success and it is later decided that a new, worse threat is moving in, then maybe I can see as things are now, them adding additional "options or trees". I think the most reasonable solution is (as stated earlier) some type of amorphous entity, but I wouldn't be for that if it puts the upcoming issue off.
Just my take on things.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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Correct me if I'm wrong but this is two presumptions.|
Originally Posted by SuperOz
Not really my point. We saw him doing the lightning thing long before the backstory of the Well came up. We just saw him and others doing their signature power thing and said 'hey, can we play with the big kids too? We want customisable signature powers!'
Presumably the ideas of the Incarnate System came out of that. S. |
1. That because the game didn't yet have it included that the incarnate being manipulated by the well didn't exist.
2. The origin of the incarnate system.
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Summoning a doppleganger is a great idea, and ties in with the idea of protecting the Multiverse.
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Originally Posted by Angelxman81
I dont like the pets being Praetorian mobs.
If we HAVE to got an Incarnate power to summon buffs pets, that should be: A tailor customizable pet or A mirror of our current avatar, using current doppelganger tech. |
The Intrepid's / The Institution - Union Server Hero / Villain Supergroups
Delay Issue 20? No
Delay the Lore Slot itself? Hells to the god damn yes. I hate railroading and stuff being forced down the throat like that. Saying "Well just don't take it then, gawd!" is also a damn stupid idea. Why should concept be brutalised just for number output in a game that, for so long, has avoided that very pitfall?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'm not presuming anything. You want to argue semantics, knock yourself out. You're just not doing it with me.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
Correct me if I'm wrong but this is two presumptions.
1. That because the game didn't yet have it included that the incarnate being manipulated by the well didn't exist. 2. The origin of the incarnate system. |
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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I'm in this camp as well.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
I would if it meant that you could create the costume that the pet uses.
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Funny, people have been saying they don't use hasten because the effect doesn't match their concept for as long as I can remember.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Delay Issue 20? No
Delay the Lore Slot itself? Hells to the god damn yes. I hate railroading and stuff being forced down the throat like that. Saying "Well just don't take it then, gawd!" is also a damn stupid idea. Why should concept be brutalised just for number output in a game that, for so long, has avoided that very pitfall? |
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Originally Posted by SuperOz
I'm not presuming anything. You want to argue semantics, knock yourself out. You're just not doing it with me.
S. |
But not if it will delay the other slots, judgement, interface, and destiny.
EDIT: To be clear I would only delay it if the devs can quickly add more pet option. Which based on what I've seen there is NOTHING quick about building these slots. In addition, the customization option would be a HUGE undertaking.
The BEST option would be to launch and then add additional pets later, who have NOTHING to do with Praetoria.
I really don't think the customization option is critical. Especially since they haven't completed POWER Customization yet. To me it wouldn't make any logical sense to do Incarnate Pet Customization (a fraction of a fraction of AN ENDGAME lvl 50 only system) if you haven't gotten Power Pool/APP/PPP/MM/Kheldian/Granite Customization even started yet and Animation Customization expanded yet.
There are WAAAAAY more areas of the game that need customization before we even start talking about something that ONLY level 50s could enjoy. THAT would piss off a majority of the playerbase. Bad idea.
EDIT2: OR add GENERIC pets as an option to one of the slots after destiny. Stick it on OMEGA if necessary. (Which after issue 20 is no longer that far away. )
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!