PvP and Badge Hunting Just Don't Mix
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-03-19 20:46 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
You talked with him for a long time. Just attacking him and not responding would have gotten the same message across.
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Isn't consent given when you go into a PvP zone?|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
You're being rude. PVP should involve consent, or it isn't any fun anyway. What is the point of PVP against a target that doesn't fight back? Even PVE is more interesting than that.
People who fight those who don't want to fight, whether PVEers or duelers, are bad sports and trolling even if what they do is within the rules. If defeating some person who's trying to do somethng else and can't even fight back effectively is entertaining to you, then you are a troll and have no sense of competitive PVP pride. |
Don't want to PvP, don't go into zone.
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Quote:
They need an exploration badge. It's like going after every other exploration badge, home the enemy doesnt kill you before you walk/fly over it. |
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
However unlike WoW there is a difference, the 'desired' things blue side do not require ever entering a PVP zone, they do however red side. It'd be the equivelent of making one piece of horde tier whatever armour, available only by participating in PVP, while the alliance just had to PVE.
And while some people may not see it as a major inconvience, it's still forcing people to participate in a different gameplay mechanic, for something to be used in another mechanic. If people can see that forcing people to PVP in STO is bad design, and their dev team is supposedly the 'rubbish' people from this games previous team... That's without going into the whole deivided community, which unfortunetly CoX suffers from ((Though perhaps not as bad as other games.)). |
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Okay, you were doing a TF with 2 (because 4 of the people left) that says "need 6 to start.|
Originally Posted by Paladin_Musashi
This is not true. When you're running the Sister Psyche TF, at less than max level for it, with SO only toons that haven't been twinked out with a fortune from a higher level toon, and 6 of your 8 players drop leaving just an archery blaster and a tanker who has not soft capped or maxed out his resists (I forget exactly what kind of tank the guy was) you will find that there are things in the game you simply cannot beat, full stop.
The two of us decided we would pick up Shivans and make another attempt, because we could get Clamor down to almost half health before she finished us off. So we hit Bloody Bay, and the aforementioned Stalker and Brute started ganking us, camping the firebases and basically making ***** of themselves, considering they were just chain-ganking us, clearly not making any rep for most of the kills. To me, that's not someone being a friendly competitor (Which is something that barely exists anyway, despite the fiction people would like to maintain about competitive activities in general) but rather someone acting like a schoolyard bully. This duo of people obviously were not seeking an actual challenge, but rather just wanted to have fun by making things not fun for others, griefing, in short. And yes, I have zero respect for PvPers who talk about the challenge of PvP and how PvE is so lame and boring because it's too easy, and then spend their time ganking people who have not built their toons for PvP, do not have a PvP skillset as a player, and will not provide any kind of challenging fight. This is bullying to me, not gaming. This was in the wee hours of the morning, which is why I had suggested we should hit the zone, thinking it would be empty. The fact that this duo of villains were camping the zone at an hour when there was clearly not going to be any competition tells me they were there to be jerks to people who only want to pick up a Shivan and get out. So we decide if we sit in the longbow base by the helicopter, they might get bored and go home. No such luck, they start teleporting us out of the base and ganking us. My blaster has a raptor pack and neither of these guys can fly, or even superjump, but the tanker is getting owned. My response to bullies in the real world has always been to punch them in the nose. So I told my friend, after tricking the jerks into getting droned, to go and sneak out along a route he wouldn't likely be seen while the two were coming back, and I set a trap for them. I switched to a squishy toon, and waited in the base like I was there for the zone time badge. They couldn't resit the bait and tp'd me again. Sadly for them the squishy I had switched to was my level 50 completely IO'd out Fire/Kin farmer. Who already had a full set of Shivans. And an Amy. The instant I was tp'd I summoned the Shivan. Hot feet did what I expected and revealed the incompetent stalker by doing some damage. I slapped him with my hold and summoned Amy and he was dead before the Brute could really wade in, which meant he ended up dying too. Final proof that they were pathetic little bullies? They left the zone. Again, satisfying, but not in the least way fun. Tanker friend got his Shivans, I switched back to my Blaster, and we went and finished off Clamor and succeeded at the TF. That was fun. However, I'd be happy if they removed Shivans from the game entirely, as long as they take them out of PvP zones. PS: Make all the fancy arguments you want, but I know every last one of you PvPers who want the Shivans and Nukes kept in the PvP zones are just bullies who like to beat up on people who can't or won't fight back. There's no good reason to keep them there other than to bring people who don't want to PvP into PvP zones, and the only reason you would want that is if you are a bully who enjoys causing others grief. End of story. |
You don't need shivans/nukes to complete, you need people who don't join a TF then leave it before it's finished.
As for me, I've never gotten a Shivan or a Nuke. So, where they're located really isn't a bother for me.
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The BrandX Collection
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It is the method used to set the PVP flag in this game to on. So yes
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Isn't consent given when you go into a PvP zone?
Don't want to PvP, don't go into zone. |
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Rep? Maybe he already killed the PvP'ers within the last 10 minutes and was looking for additional targets.|
Originally Posted by Dr_HR
Goes both ways, however. if there are other people there to pvp then why not fight them instead of fighting someone/some people who dont tend to fight back?
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
The fact that you would never ask a PvPer to not try to kill you does not change the fact that it is rude to ignore someone who would.
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Meh...When in Rome...
When you enter a PvP Zone, you explicitly agree to PvP by clicking OK on the popup window.
I rarely PvP because let's face it...I suck at it. Atleast I know I suck at it and just laugh it off when someone kills me in a PvP Zone. I'm built for PvE, but badging leads me into PvP Zones.
Suck it up and laugh it off. It's PvP...not a singsong kiddie hugfest.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
red side accolades require PVP badges.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
And what badges does it require? Exploration.
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Even before I16, when Born in Battle required 3 PvP-related badges, it was the exploration badge that's still required, "Win a gladiator match", which is really ******* easy if you can just get a buddy to join you for a couple minutes (you select one or more gladiators, they select none: you win), and "spend 5 hours in Siren's Call", which you can do in the Siren's Call base, with no actual PvP interaction at all (though the other faction might get annoyed if you tie up the bounty system in the zone).
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
What does 'winning' the zone give you?
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
By enterting the zone, people give their consent to being attacked by other players. This consent can only be withdrawn by leaving the zone.
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Exactly. None of the other badges do anything for anyone in regards to PvE. So, going after the badges in the zones is purely optional.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
And only 1 exploration badge, at that.
Even before I16, when Born in Battle required 3 PvP-related badges, it was the exploration badge that's still required, "Win a gladiator match", which is really ******* easy if you can just get a buddy to join you for a couple minutes (you select one or more gladiators, they select none: you win), and "spend 5 hours in Siren's Call", which you can do in the Siren's Call base, with no actual PvP interaction at all (though the other faction might get annoyed if you tie up the bounty system in the zone). A one-use temporary power which summons a pet which is a small version of your faction's heavy from RV. |
Now note, if it was me who was asked "Please don't kill me, I'm here for badges" I would of left them alone unless they attacked me, but I would never for a second think anyone has to in a PvP zone.
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PVP happened in a PVP zone? Shocked...
Now, I'm probably one of the more anti-PVP people out there, but even *I* don't expect to go into a PVP area and not get ganked, or stomped, or other sorts of violated. If it happens, even repeatedly, THAT'S PART OF THE GAME! Get over yourselves, or get out of a PVP area.
Smeg is in the clear here; the Controller wanted badges/rewards but it's a PvP zone, you're getting attacked by other players. If it's a low-pop server they MAY leave you alone or even help you.
This thread reminds me of the Malta invasion on Infinity a while back. It ended up in Warburg...I switched to my MInd/Fire Dom, dropped team as soon as I entered the zone and started attacking everyone. Some fought back, others complained but that PvP Flag was on so I was going to shoot anything that moved. It got pretty fun when my SG got wind of it and moved in as well. Eventually Niviene got her nuke (?) and people stopped attacking her.
That event worked well for all parties; though it had a clear PvE element to it led by a community mod, people PvPd and had fun with that part too. Even my PvE friend on that server that HATES PvP engaged in the activity. He didn't complain at all.
In his words:
"I don't like PvP, I choose not to engage in it but this is a PvP zone and I'm not going to complain about people using the zone for its intended purpose."
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Bah! The OP and all who agree with him are wrong. Plain and simple.
Badging in a PvP zone?
If you are treasure hunting on a battlefield wearing an enemy uniform, there is a high probability that you will be attacked.
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That's pretty much my view. I think it was a mistake to put PVE goodies in the PVP zones. And I'll never understand the mindset of someone who will repeatedly gank a target that can't/won't fight back. But as long as those are the rules, I'll live with it. I sneak into the zones to get the explore badges -- don't usually bother trying for Shivans or Nukes, cause I don't want to press my luck. I haven't been attacked yet (thank you, Issue 13, for thinning out the zones! |
Originally Posted by Neuronia
"I don't like PvP, I choose not to engage in it but this is a PvP zone and I'm not going to complain about people using the zone for its intended purpose."
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). If I ever am, I'll leave and come back later. It's annoying, but so is hunting for hostages on an Oranbega map, and I cope with that.
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If I'm in a PvP zone and see you with an orange name above your head you are a target, plain and simple.
If you do not WANT to be a target, the solution is very very easy: Do not put yourself in the position of having an orange name from my perspective.
"But...but...I just want my baaaadge!"
Yeah? Me too. I don't have my 400 rep badge yet, and I'm working on it. Unfortunately for you, killing other players is how I get that badge.
You don't get the 400 rep badge without killing people...and I prefer to earn my badges instead of farming them. If I kill you....you have 10 minutes during which I won't attack you, if we're both still in the zone.
I'm fairly honorable about it. I don't attack while you're fighting NPCs, and I usually will let you know I'm there first (unless I'm playing my stalker, a stalker that gives himself away is a dead stalker 9 times out of 10).
It's the same as a lot of other people said, PvP zones are intended for PvP. Going into one and saying "I don't want to PvP" is like going to a strip club and saying "I don't want there to be naked women around while I'm in here"
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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And with PvP recipe drops people should expect no quarter will be asked or given. I know I don't expect any breaks when I go to get my shivans/badges/whatever.
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Originally Posted by macskull
No - he went into a PvP zone, knowing full well that he would likely be engaging in some form of PvP. To expect anything else is naive.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I'm assuming by your logic you can't possibly grief in a pvp zone, right?|
Originally Posted by LISAR
PvP in a PvP zone is not griefing.
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The guy was there for badges, smeg wanted to pvp despite the other players desire not to engage in PvP so he attacked him.
I'm not saying smeg was in the wrong. I'm just saying that smeg caused undesired grief to that player. Griefing.
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Or one can look at it the other way.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
I'm assuming by your logic you can't possibly grief in a pvp zone, right?
The guy was there for badges, smeg wanted to pvp despite the other players desire not to engage in PvP so he attacked him. I'm not saying smeg was in the wrong. I'm just saying that smeg caused undesired grief to that player. Griefing. |
Smeg wanted to attack players and thusly went to the PvP zone. The other player came to a PvP zone and didn't want to PvP. Causing Smeg grief as being a target in a PvP zone, and putting him in the turmoil of "should I leave him alone, or kill him because all targets are fair game in a PvP zone, no matter what they're in the PvP zone for"?
Sounds like the other player was causing greif to me.
If you don't want to be killed by other players, don't let the PvP flag get turned on. If you're okay with being killed by other players, then turn it on. By stepping into a PvP zone, you're saying, I'm okay with being killed by other players.
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This. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Smeg wanted to attack players and thusly went to the PvP zone. The other player came to a PvP zone and didn't want to PvP. Causing Smeg grief as being a target in a PvP zone, and putting him in the turmoil of "should I leave him alone, or kill him because all targets are fair game in a PvP zone, no matter what they're in the PvP zone for"?.
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Count me as a non-PVP type. If I were the OP, I might do something silly like say, "Oh, you go ahead and get your badge. I'll wait..." then gank them as soon as they're done. But I certainly wouldn't expect anyone else to do that.
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
I'm assuming by your logic you can't possibly grief in a pvp zone, right?
The guy was there for badges, smeg wanted to pvp despite the other players desire not to engage in PvP so he attacked him. I'm not saying smeg was in the wrong. I'm just saying that smeg caused undesired grief to that player. Griefing. |
What if Smeg was working on the 400 rep badge?
That would mean HE was there for badges too. Who's badge takes precedence?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I think the real moral of this story is not to talk to anyone in PvP zones
Possible exception for teammates.
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Oh, THIS thread again. Cool.| PvP and Badge Hunting Just Don't Mix |
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Sounds to me like you want the reward w/o the risk. And you whine too much about stuff that just isn't that important.
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Originally Posted by Paladin_Musashi
This is not true. When you're running the Sister Psyche TF, at less than max level for it, with SO only toons that haven't been twinked out with a fortune from a higher level toon, and 6 of your 8 players drop leaving just an archery blaster and a tanker who has not soft capped or maxed out his resists (I forget exactly what kind of tank the guy was) you will find that there are things in the game you simply cannot beat, full stop.
The two of us decided we would pick up Shivans and make another attempt, because we could get Clamor down to almost half health before she finished us off. So we hit Bloody Bay, and the aforementioned Stalker and Brute started ganking us, camping the firebases and basically making ***** of themselves, considering they were just chain-ganking us, clearly not making any rep for most of the kills. To me, that's not someone being a friendly competitor (Which is something that barely exists anyway, despite the fiction people would like to maintain about competitive activities in general) but rather someone acting like a schoolyard bully. This duo of people obviously were not seeking an actual challenge, but rather just wanted to have fun by making things not fun for others, griefing, in short. And yes, I have zero respect for PvPers who talk about the challenge of PvP and how PvE is so lame and boring because it's too easy, and then spend their time ganking people who have not built their toons for PvP, do not have a PvP skillset as a player, and will not provide any kind of challenging fight. This is bullying to me, not gaming. This was in the wee hours of the morning, which is why I had suggested we should hit the zone, thinking it would be empty. The fact that this duo of villains were camping the zone at an hour when there was clearly not going to be any competition tells me they were there to be jerks to people who only want to pick up a Shivan and get out. So we decide if we sit in the longbow base by the helicopter, they might get bored and go home. No such luck, they start teleporting us out of the base and ganking us. My blaster has a raptor pack and neither of these guys can fly, or even superjump, but the tanker is getting owned. My response to bullies in the real world has always been to punch them in the nose. So I told my friend, after tricking the jerks into getting droned, to go and sneak out along a route he wouldn't likely be seen while the two were coming back, and I set a trap for them. I switched to a squishy toon, and waited in the base like I was there for the zone time badge. They couldn't resit the bait and tp'd me again. Sadly for them the squishy I had switched to was my level 50 completely IO'd out Fire/Kin farmer. Who already had a full set of Shivans. And an Amy. The instant I was tp'd I summoned the Shivan. Hot feet did what I expected and revealed the incompetent stalker by doing some damage. I slapped him with my hold and summoned Amy and he was dead before the Brute could really wade in, which meant he ended up dying too. Final proof that they were pathetic little bullies? They left the zone. Again, satisfying, but not in the least way fun. Tanker friend got his Shivans, I switched back to my Blaster, and we went and finished off Clamor and succeeded at the TF. That was fun. However, I'd be happy if they removed Shivans from the game entirely, as long as they take them out of PvP zones. PS: Make all the fancy arguments you want, but I know every last one of you PvPers who want the Shivans and Nukes kept in the PvP zones are just bullies who like to beat up on people who can't or won't fight back. There's no good reason to keep them there other than to bring people who don't want to PvP into PvP zones, and the only reason you would want that is if you are a bully who enjoys causing others grief. End of story. |
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Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
You're being rude. PVP should involve consent, or it isn't any fun anyway. What is the point of PVP against a target that doesn't fight back? Even PVE is more interesting than that.
People who fight those who don't want to fight, whether PVEers or duelers, are bad sports and trolling even if what they do is within the rules. If defeating some person who's trying to do somethng else and can't even fight back effectively is entertaining to you, then you are a troll and have no sense of competitive PVP pride. |
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Isn't consent given when you go into a PvP zone?
Don't want to PvP, don't go into zone. |
Who said anything about not wanting to PVP? Sometimes they interrupt duels, not just badges, though that isn't such an issue now that arena works anywhere.
See, this is one of the things that sucks about discourse now. Nobody even debates what the other person is saying, they just either argue with an alternate meaning of the words that were said:
See, it IS consent if you use this meaning of the word! Never mind that "PVP should involve giving technical consent by entering a PVP zone, or it isn't any fun anyway. What is the point of PVP against a target that doesn't fight back?" makes absolutely no sense in the context.
or classifying them into some group, and then debating with your stereotypical perception of that group:
Aha! You complained about attacks in a PVP zone! You must not want to PVP, even though you specifically referenced duels.
And thus armed with these 2 awesome debating techniques, the masses of the internet can win any argument simply by covering up the main point under a 10 page pile of drivel about word definitions or arguments about group stereotypes.
The POINT is that there is no fun to be gained from PVPng an unprepared person who is not able to fight back, unless you are getting jollies from causing them to be frustrated, which is the essence of trolling. For non-sociopaths, PVP is fun because it is more interesting and challenging than PVE.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
So because you don't want to get them, no one should have them? That makes zero sense.
Also, nice job completely ignoring the obvious yet unwritten caveat in what you quoted.
No encounter "as designed" needs nukes or shivans to complete it. TFs have player minimums for a reason. Can you do them with less? Sure. Is it within the bounds of standard gameplay? No.
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