PvP and Badge Hunting Just Don't Mix

Conflict has continued for years about this issue, and in the game, so maybe its not quite as simple as telling everybody that they should all have the same thoughts. Telling people to “shut up” has also been tried on many occasions and it clearly hasn't been effective, either.

That's why it would be good to have a back-up plan, in case telling people what to think or telling them to “shut up” doesn't work as a conflict resolution strategy. A back-up plan would be to remove the cause of conflict, which in this case happens to be the mixing together of people who have objectives that conflict with each other.

Removing the cause of conflicts has a lot more distinguished historical record in its favor, when compared to the option to telling everybody to think the same thing and/or to shut up.

Except that all "removing the conflict" will do is give certain people the incentive to whine more the next time something is put into the game or implemented in a way that inconveniences them, because they want the rewards without having to put in the effort. In this case, it'd be like giving everyone gold medals in junior football games because "we don't want to hurt their feelings", rather then teaching the kids that "sometimes you fail, but you need to just get back up there and let it motivate you to try harder".

But I'll put it another way: The people who were upset over how Isolator was handled had a far better case then the people ******** about badges in PvP zones.

You slipped and fell into the slippery slope fallacy by shifting to "they'll whine more next time so they can get more freebies" as an argument and by dragging in junior football games. You also engaged in ad hominem by assuming that badgers who prefer not to enter PvP zones are expecting "freebies", and made the dubious assumption that badges removed from PvP areas (or which can in the future be acquired in ways other than by entering PvP zones) would necessarily be easier to get.

On the subject of junior football, competitive sports can be a great way to teach the value of perseverance to children. I trust you aren't trying to argue that we're undermining the personal growth and development of badgers unless we put some badges (and other PvE rewards) in PvP zones, or that we would be undermining children in some way by keeping PvP and PvE clearly separate in COX.

I'm trying to figure out how junior football games ended up in this discussion, as I'm not seeing a very strong link.

The simple fact is that the people who are whining about it simply want to be able to get the badges in a way that does not personally inconvenience them. Heck, some people feel it's unfair that they should have to form Teams to run Task Forces and get the TF badges. Should we remove those, and give players a different way to earn THOSE badges just because they don't like running the Task Forces?

Hell, I hate PvP. As far as I'm concerned, PvP is idiotic. But, as much as I want those badges, I am not going to sit here and whine to the Dev's about how they should make those badges available outside the PvP zone (Or take them completly out of the PvP zones) simply because it would inconvenience me. *ESPECIALLY* when there is *NO REAL PROBLEM* that needs to be addressed, other then this feeling of entitlement that certain badgers display.

Quite frankly, I would be *far* more sympathetic if the people whining about this could give an actual reason that didn't boil down to "I want it, but I don't want to have to go into a PvP zone for it because I don't like PvP".

I would be unsympathetic to somebody who truly wanted something for nothing (or next to nothing), who truly has a misplaced sense of entitlement. Still, I see "I don't find X enjoyable" as being a perfectly valid reason to ask for changes to a game. On a related point, this isn't a situation in which passing personal judgments seems helpful or even appropriate, at least to me. I'm not keen to pass judgments about people I've never met, a good majority of whom I know absolutely nothing about.

I see this as a "buck stops at the top" situation; there's repeated and predictable conflict, the devs set the stage for that to happen, and its up to them to fix it. Those who PvP have a very limited amount of other places to go to do that (arena, basically), and so I don't see them as being at fault for these repeated conflicts; they're seeking to do what they enjoy and what the developers have given them an incentive to do. I don't see those who enjoy the PvE content / rewards that have been located in PvP zones--but who do not enjoy PvP--as being at fault; they're seeking to do something they (generally) enjoy and what the developers have given them an incentive to do.

I see all the issues you're raising as being linked together.

The short run effects of putting PvE rewards into PvP zones is unquestionably positive for PvP because it increases zone traffic and increases exposure to PvP opportunities, on an overall basis. But, this way of organizing the PvP zones also promotes having PvP beginners and novices experience PvP as an annoying source of delay to their efforts to reach their intended PvE objective(s). This generates and reinforces negative attitudes toward PvP and those who engage in it, promotes conflict and ill will between players, and helps to empty out the PvP zones over the longer term because players tend to avoid things that they classify as "not fun."

The current model for promoting PvP seems to work a lot like the "door to door" approach used by some religions to recruit more members: annoy many, be ignored by many, and convert a small number. Many get annoyed for reasons already outlined. Many simply don't enter the PvP zones because the PvE rewards they first hear about for doing that don't seem worth the hassle costs ("So, you'll pay me with stuff I don't need if I offer up my character as bait to PvPers? How lovely of you!) and having made that decision, they keep on keepin' on with everything else instead. In the end, this system has never been successful at converting a substantial percentage of players to freely participate in PvP (because they actually find it enjoyable), as evidenced by the perpetually small percentage of players who engage in it.