PvP and Badge Hunting Just Don't Mix
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-03-19 20:46 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Too many potential problems with such a system, not the least of which is it essentially becomes "everyone is exactly the same" which defeats the point of a team-based MMO in the first place. One of the biggest complaints from non-PvPers about PvP pre-I13 was "I can't do this" or "I keep getting killed by this," when the simplest solution to such issues was often to find teammates who could allow you to do those things or counter those tactics. A well-coordinated and balanced small team used to be able to wreak havoc upon a larger, uncoordinated number of players, who would've been able to clean the floor with the smaller team if they'd only grouped up and coordinated. The apparent aversion to looking for the "invite to team" button is part of what brought I13 crashing down onto PvPers heads.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
What if there was some sort of handicap system, or a 'standard PvP' build that anyone could choose at the entrances to the PvP Zones. Lorewise, say, Vanguard or whoever would offer each hero a 'power suit' or sth. The mechanical effect would be that everyone who used this would have exactly the same powers and slotting. Obviously the chosen powers would have to be fun to play with, but then there'd be a levelling of the playing field, at least for players using this vs other players also using this. If these 'power-suits' were balanced to be equally as powerful as a top-end PvPIOd out player-designed toon, then the noobs lack of any skill at PvP would be balanced out by their buiold, and the best PvPers wouldn't be at a disadvantage so they'd still be able to say 'I'm cool because of my leet skills not because of an "I win" button' or what have you.
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| Does the PvP community want a level playing field? |
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Originally Posted by Myriad
Remember when we got secondary builds?
When secondary builds were announced (and long before we knew details) I assumed well, hoped we would get a secondary build for PvP only. My dream was that it would give the option to create a full L50 build even at L1 with setIOs being available in drop down menues and the ability to respec at a specific contact as often as you want. I believe this would have been a great thing for PvP. |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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There's a flaw in your logic there. |
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
Where I beleive the design fails is that although the Shivans draw PvE'ers into the zones, they do not draw them there in such a way as to have a positive experience.
A percentage of PvE'ers will enter the zone, have a PvP encounter, then decide that PvP is fun and that they will research it, practice it and continue with it. But I don't tink anyone can deny that this type of player is indeed a minority currently, regardless of the reason. In fact, the Shivans (and similar rewards) may be hurting PvP: people who are not currently PvPers but might otherwise have been enter the zone for the purpose of PvE and find PvP interfering in that task. This generates negative feelings rather than the curiosity the Devs intended. |
PvP is not unexpectedly dropped on someone who enters the zone. They are warned repeatedly that they are entering an area where another player can attack them. There's even a big red countdown and a window that pops up on the screen that does not go away until you acknowledge it.
I could understand being upset if you are told you can get a temp power for doing this thing and there is no indication of the possibility of attack by another player, but that isn't the case.
Also, there is nothing anywhere in the game that indicates the existence of Shivans or Warburg nukes, you have to enter the zone in the first place to find out about them. There is no attempt to draw a PvEer in with the promise of shinies, because the shinies are never alluded to in the PvE game. Unless another player shows them to you, you will never encounter those temp powers unless you enter the zone.
Very few people will enter a PvP zone because there might be something useful to them in it. Most enter a PvP zone because they're curious about PvP. I've heard more complaints about there being no one to fight from people entering for the first time than I have complaints about being attacked.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Okay.
I don't even consider myself to be part of the PvP community at large and I have to agree with one thing:
The PvPers have been screwed repeatedly in this game solely for the benefit of the PvE community.
The I13 changes that completely changed PvP. Were those chages made to benefit the PvPers? Not. Even. Close.
A dev actually responded (it was Lighthouse, and he was reprimanded for it) to a question, saying "We didn't do it for you" (referring to the PvPers)
They completely gutted the PvP mechanics of the game so the PvE players wouldn't feel like they were at so much of a disadvantage.
They did that for YOU. The people who STILL constantly complain about the PvPers ruining their easy peasy reward system by having the audacity to attack someone in the only zones they are ALLOWED to.
PvP was completely changed for the benefit of a completely ungrateful subsection of people. The PvPers complained (rightfully so) that they were being screwed (a dev even more or less admitted it), and it fell on completely deaf ears.
But that wasn't good enough, was it? NOOOOOOOO, now the anti-PvP crowd wants their rewards with no risk of even having to deal with the very thing that was altered solely for their benefit.
Put in that perspective, can you understand why the PvPers might be a little miffed? The part of the game they enjoy was watered down to the point it doesn't even resemble the rest of the game, for the benefit of a group of people that want even more to be taken away from them, and will never use the system that was changed JUST for them.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Too many zones and servers for the population we currently have also. The devs should shut some down.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
He does, sort of, have a point there, there are too many PvP zones for the PvPing population we have, it spreads them too thin, while just having RV wouldn't work (because there's no way, even at 50, a level 1 could compete with a natural 50).
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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A point I tried to make repeatedly but the anti-PvP crowd assumes anyone who isn't anti-PvP is a PvPer.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
um, 'you and your ilk' don't speak for all PVE'ers. I have ZERO problem with the badges in the PvP zones and I'm a big badge hunter.
P.S. And if someone wants a reason: VARIETY. Having some of the badges in the PvP zones makes getting them a bit DIFFERENT. I like that. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Though in actual practice, they did PvEers no favors either, since as macskull correctly observes the new PvP is if anything less newbie-friendly than the old PvP was. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The PvPers have been screwed repeatedly in this game solely for the benefit of the PvE community.
The I13 changes that completely changed PvP. Were those chages made to benefit the PvPers? Not. Even. Close. |
I13 seems to have been designed around the suggestions of a large number of players whose experience with PvP was minimal and entirely negative. I don't think the existence of this large, vocal, and deeply resentful group was a coincidence or without cause. In my opinion, the mistake was in listening to them directly, instead of digging deeper and finding where that resentment really originated. If I were called upon to guess, I'd say that the major basic complaints were:
"I feel like I can't win with my AT/powersets/build."
"PvPers get in the way of what I want (with assumed malice aforethought) and I can't stop them."
"I'm the only beginner in a field of experts. I feel like I'm wasting my time and not learning anything."
(list is neither exhaustive nor universal)
There were other possible ways to address all of these issues: dual builds, auto-teaming, combat tiers or handicapping, a reward structure that encourages at least numerically balanced engagements, etcetera. That's not how it went, and I argue that the way it did go happened in part because any voices of reason were drowned out by accusations of malice and elitism on the one hand and ignorance and entitlement on the other. In the end, the list of complaints above remains more firmly in place than ever, and so does the ill will in the player community.
I can't lay the blame for all of that on poor zone design, but I do think it was a contributing factor.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
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I can assure you this was already in place when PvP was in beta for CoV. The cause pre-dates City of Heroes even and all the efforts the developers put in place here to try to minimize people's valid criticisms based upon other games were still ignored.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I13 seems to have been designed around the suggestions of a large number of players whose experience with PvP was minimal and entirely negative. I don't think the existence of this large, vocal, and deeply resentful group was a coincidence or without cause.
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There is a large contigent for whom no PvP is good PvP and they will always be vocal as if in this game every day a PvPer kicks them down the stairs though they have never ever tried it in the arena or the zones or they tried it once and someone said something they didn't like proving to them they were correct.
And none of that has changed since the days of CoV beta except there are a lot fewer of the PvPers who trash talk on the forums to the anti-PvPers. I haven't seen one "care bear" comment in this thread but I have seen all the tired old anti-PvPers rants.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Can you expand on this, please? I wasn't around at the time.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
all the efforts the developers put in place here to try to minimize people's valid criticisms based upon other games were still ignored.
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@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
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A few I recall being changed in the first few months:|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Can you expand on this, please? I wasn't around at the time.
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Automatically setting to a level in the zones so a 50 wasn't at an advantage. In most MMOs, you had no hope against a higher level opponent.
Then they put in the downgraded effects of enhancements to offset the advantage the 50 would have over the 15 in slots with enhancements.
No death penalty in PvP. In most games you are going to lose something for losing.
A lot of powers got tweaked to remove an imbalance that had always existed in PvE but the critters weren't complaining but with PvP the devs weren't going to let that imbalance stand. And some of these really bothered me and I wouldn't have minded if there was no PvP and we got to keep them as is (like Phase Shift).
The only mistake the devs have made in my mind regarding PvP is not understanding just how virulent the anti-PvP crowd is and how indifferent most of the rest of us are towards it. That is there is nothing they can do to curb the anti-PvP crowd and nothing they can do to entice the indifferent people to PvP.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I wasn't trying to open that can of worms. |
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Though in actual practice, they did PvEers no favors either, since as macskull correctly observes the new PvP is if anything less newbie-friendly than the old PvP was.
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I know it didn't actually make PvP any more newbie friendly, that wasn't my point.
I was simply mentioning that PvP as a whole was changed, even though the people who actually did it were very vocally against it, in order to make it not as harsh on the non-PvPer who wanders into a zone.
And now the anti-PvP crowd wants to make it even harder for a PvPer to take part in the aspect of the game they enjoy.
I'm currently working on two badges: Player Defeats, and PvP Rep. They work like any other badge, you defeat x of something you get the badge. In this case "something" = players.
When is the last time a Banished Pantheon mask fled the zone you were in, preventing you from getting badge credit for it? PvEers do that all the time.....there goes my player defeats badge. PvP zones are the ONLY place you can get that badge, I'm pretty sure arena defeats don't count.
What defeat badge starts you over from zero if you stop working on it? Only one, the PvP Rep badge. You can stop killing BP masks and pick it up right where you left off. If I stop killing players, I have to start over from scratch, because I LOSE credit toward the badge the longer I go without killing a player.
If the PvEer leaves the zone because there is a PvPer in there, they lose absolutely nothing. If that PvPer was working on his PvP Rep badge, he will have to start over on it, because it is no longer possible to earn credit toward it and it will dwindle back down to zero.
Can I get a show of hands from anti-PvPers that didn't realize the Rep badge worked like that?
Did it ever occur to you that the PvPer that killed you may have been desperately trying to not lose all that work he did toward his badge?
Every time someone flees I have to start over. I have been working on that badge for almost 3 years on my main character and haven't gotten it yet.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I'm indifferent for the most part, but amenable to bribes. It works for PvE, after all.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
nothing they can do to entice the indifferent people to PvP.
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More seriously, I think that a lot of the things you mention were good ideas. If it had been up to me, I would have implemented a parallel start-to-finish leveling path for PvP and gotten power effect separation and dual builds in at the same time as the rest of the PvP system. I also wouldn't have put any objectives in PvP zones that had the possibility of being accomplished without attacking or being attacked by other players, of course. It wouldn't have stifled criticism from those who see any PvP development as wasted effort, but it would at least lend total factual credence to the statement that neither PvP nor PvE is a required activity unless you specifically want the rewards associated with those activities.
Then I would have hopped on my unicorn and rode off to fantasy land. :P
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
Oh heck there are a lot of things they could have done differently but we're kind of stuck with where we are.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I'm indifferent for the most part, but amenable to bribes. It works for PvE, after all.
More seriously, I think that a lot of the things you mention were good ideas. If it had been up to me, I would have implemented a parallel start-to-finish leveling path for PvP and gotten power effect separation and dual builds in at the same time as the rest of the PvP system. I also wouldn't have put any objectives in PvP zones that had the possibility of being accomplished without attacking or being attacked by other players, of course. It wouldn't have stifled criticism from those who see any PvP development as wasted effort, but it would at least lend total factual credence to the statement that neither PvP nor PvE is a required activity unless you specifically want the rewards associated with those activities. Then I would have hopped on my unicorn and rode off to fantasy land. :P |
I had thought we were going to get PvP missions like a Safeguard vs Mayhem. While those would be very tricky to keep team balance it would to me have been fun PvP because it would have a goal I could relate to.
The problem is they keep trying to fix something they really cannot fix because most people don't want to PvP just as most don't want to play villains (though a much larger group than the PvPers). While they can do things to improve it to make it more desirable to do either of those things there are many players here who will never do them. They need to understand they are trying to fix a people "problem" with software changes (not sure it is a real problem but it is clearly viewed to a degree as such).
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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What? Who? Me? Not at all! I'm 100% for a healthy and vibrant PvP community and I miss the one we had. IMO the greatest tragedy of I13 was the simultaneous exodus of existing PvPers and the raised bar of entry for anyone considering PvP.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
And now the anti-PvP crowd wants to make it even harder for a PvPer to take part in the aspect of the game they enjoy.
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As for everything else you said, I agree with all of it. It must be very frustrating to keep running into people in PvP zones who don't actually have any intention of PvPing and who leave if PvP'd upon (okay, that sounds a bit wrong). What do you want to see happen to prevent this? Because if you're in the zone to obtain nukes, shivans, or badges, and have no inducement to stick around, then leaving looks like a perfectly reasonable plan - and you can't expect people to suddenly start acting in a manner contrary to their interests, any more than they can expect you to start acting in a manner contrary to your interests.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Interesting thread.
I think the greatest point made is that there is NOTHING the devs can do to draw in those who don't want to pvp. They have been trying literally for years to entice folks who HATE pvp or are indifferent to it, to pvp with one stupid gimmick after another. ENOUGH.
They need to improve the system for those who DO WANT TO PVP, or are curious about pvp and might try it. /em raises hand as one who does and has been more and more lately. Hell if it wasn't for RV I would have canceled my account until GR came out.
With that said I'm terrrrrrrible at it, but I'm still having fun! 
I also have broadcast and tells completely off when I pvp, usually.
^
protip for anyone wishing to try out zone pvp.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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which is why I personally ALWAYS thought shivans and nukes were a stupid idea. If I'm on a build (read invs, stealth, hide, etc) that can completely ignore pvp and stop myself from being found in the zone where these temps are, the whole "it's a lure, so that there is a chance that pvp CAN happen" falls flat on it's face.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
What? Who? Me? Not at all! I'm 100% for a healthy and vibrant PvP community and I miss the one we had. IMO the greatest tragedy of I13 was the simultaneous exodus of existing PvPers and the raised bar of entry for anyone considering PvP.
As for everything else you said, I agree with all of it. It must be very frustrating to keep running into people in PvP zones who don't actually have any intention of PvPing and who leave if PvP'd upon (okay, that sounds a bit wrong). What do you want to see happen to prevent this? Because if you're in the zone to obtain nukes, shivans, or badges, and have no inducement to stick around, then leaving looks like a perfectly reasonable plan - and you can't expect people to suddenly start acting in a manner contrary to their interests, any more than they can expect you to start acting in a manner contrary to your interests. |
I'd rather only have folks in zone who are there to pvp.
Interestingly enough the one zone with the pvp item that has the most insignificant pve use (RV) is . . . drumroll . .. the most popular pvp zone. (more so since i13 made newb pvp inherently harder to get into--as others have already mentioned).
You'd think if the "this-can-be-used-in-pve item" lure was a good idea the zones with them would be more popular.
LOL
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I joined when zone PVP was still kinda new and shiny and even back then I wondered why the devs didn't just have one PVP zone that anyone could get into instead of segregating us into four different zones. I can kind of see why they did what they did, each zone has a slightly different meta-game and to some extent they play differently because of the level caps, but making it harder for people who want to punch other people to find each other never made a lot of sense to me.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Interestingly enough the one zone with the pvp item that has the most insignificant pve use (RV) is . . . drumroll . .. the most popular pvp zone. (more so since i13 made newb pvp inherently harder to get into--as others have already mentioned).
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Ambush City, Or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Ambush - Arc #1043
Strife of the Grave - Arc #3409
Shift - Arc #529411
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I wasn't referring to anyone in particular when I said "anti-PvP crowd". There are people in this thread that fit that description perfectly, but I wasn't calling anyone out on it, because I'm not trying to make any of this debate/argument personal with anyone. |
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
What? Who? Me? Not at all! I'm 100% for a healthy and vibrant PvP community and I miss the one we had. IMO the greatest tragedy of I13 was the simultaneous exodus of existing PvPers and the raised bar of entry for anyone considering PvP.
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The things I'm talking about are things like:
PvP flags in PvP zones. As in, you turn your flag on to become a valid target. You're flagged for PvP when you enter the zone, the flag turns off when you leave the zone. It's been like that from day 1, and I see no reason to change it.
The (serious?) suggestion of moving all PvP to RV and basically taking away 3/4ths of the PvPers playground. Okay, fine. From now on we're making it so you only have a quarter of teh space in which to badge hunt. Oh, and the rare defeat items will now spawn randomly in that small area with no warning of any kind. You'll pretty much have to stay in that zone 24/7 if you want that badge.
It basically boils down to the anti-PvPers not being satisfied until they've chased every last PvPer out of the game for good. And since the devs are far more likely to listen to PvE players than PvPers they may eventually succeed.
And I don't think that's fair in the slightest. Their $15 gives them JUST as much right to play the game how they want as anyone else's.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
^
The best way to improve pvp is NOT to push all pvp into one zone, but to make ALL pvp cross server.
Incidentally it would be the perfect way for them to test if they could make the ENTIRE game cross server.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Claws, I'm more or less with you on general principles, but some of the arguments you're advancing don't really work...
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Fair enough. But if you have a problem with people not wanting to PvP in the zone and wasting your time by running, this is one way to keep you from wasting your time with people who have no intention of giving you the slightest chance to kill them. Not the best way, by far! But it does bear some kind of relevance to the complaint as stated, and isn't necessarily aimed toward the elimination of all PvP.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
PvP flags in PvP zones. As in, you turn your flag on to become a valid target. You're flagged for PvP when you enter the zone, the flag turns off when you leave the zone. It's been like that from day 1, and I see no reason to change it.
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| The (serious?) suggestion of moving all PvP to RV and basically taking away 3/4ths of the PvPers playground. Okay, fine. From now on we're making it so you only have a quarter of teh space in which to badge hunt. Oh, and the rare defeat items will now spawn randomly in that small area with no warning of any kind. You'll pretty much have to stay in that zone 24/7 if you want that badge. |
I agree that there's a number of people with a pre-existing antipathy toward any sort of PvP on principle. I personally feel that a number of people started generally indifferent to PvP but grew to resent what they perceived as willful and malicious interference with their intended activities by PvPing players, exacerbated by some of the rhetoric being tossed around the zones. But I'd guess that by far the greatest feeling most people have toward PvP is indifference. I care about PvP on general principle, but I'd care a lot more if I had any actual inducement to. And maybe the IO system has done more harm to PvP than any specific measure targeted at PvP itself; all the bored 50s who had nothing better to do than zap each other are now casually purpling their warshades, and damned if they'll do it twice just for PvP - they've got alts to slot!
I made the crazy suggestion at one point that we could give people alt builds solely for PvP, and fill them with free PvP-only enhancements and special enhancements that could only be earned by PvP and slotted in PvP builds. That one went over like a lead balloon...
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
But new exploration badges are announced in the patch notes, so tyou're totally wrong about there being no PvE lure for Players.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
There is no attempt to draw a PvEer in with the promise of shinies, because the shinies are never alluded to in the PvE game.
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[/quote]
Very few people will enter a PvP zone because there might be something useful to them in it. Most enter a PvP zone because they're curious about PvP.[/QUOTE]
Or because they've been told that there's definitely something useful int it - badges, at least. The advertising for the new zones also mentioned Shivan shards and the nukes IIRC. In any case, I haven't spoken to 'most' Players, so i can't directly refute your claim from experience (you do get around, eh?). I personally, however, first entered the PvP Zones not because I was curious about PvP, but because i was curious about the zones. A handful of new locations enter our game, and of course people are going to want to go and have a look.
I've never done a Hami raid on either side, but I've been to see the Hive and the Abyss.
And what's the first thing that you encounter when you enter these PvP Zones? A contact who tells you about the cool content. An NPC contact, offering PvE 'missions'.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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'm a badger, and my experience with trying to get the PvP rep badges (What's all that 'show of hands' nonsense - any badger knows exactly how the PvP rep badge works, wether or not he or she is anti-PvP. Someone who's anti or indifferent to badginf might not know) was attempting to farm it with an SG-mate before they did the thing which made you auto TP to the hosp upon defeat. We still kept at it in WB, hindered every now and then by PvPers who found or 'hiding place; and started to farm us lol. When that happened, we simply left the zone and did sth else for a while.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Every time someone flees I have to start over. I have been working on that badge for almost 3 years on my main character and haven't gotten it yet.
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Farming for that badge was awful. I don't think we finished, and of course my friends rep is definitely back to zero now.
Getting that badge by straight PvP seems like it would be a nightmare to me. It was slow enough when I was just dying over and over with a cycle of ten different toons; trying to maintain a high rate of kills with targest actively fighting back - I'm not surprised it's taking you years.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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*raises hand* I had zero clue about that. So basically you have to average two kills per day just to tread water. I might have to start going into PVP zones just to give y'all some more opportunities.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Can I get a show of hands from anti-PvPers that didn't realize the Rep badge worked like that? ...
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Every time someone flees I have to start over.
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Yeah, if you go too long without a kill your rep is back at zero before you know it. The last badge is for 400 rep......and you get 1 rep per kill if their rep is lower than you. I've never gotten more than 6 for a kill, and that was bonus rep. To top it off, it drains away if you don't fight. |
Originally Posted by Tyrrano
*raises hand* I had zero clue about that. So basically you have to average two kills per day just to tread water. I might have to start going into PVP zones just to give y'all some more opportunities.
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| Heh, that makes it sound like your counter resets if your target leaves the zone. |
Basically what it boils down to is, if I want to make ANY progress on that badge I have to kill anyone I see, no matter what they're doing.
Possible solution: Remove the degradation of the rep badges. Still lose rep if you lose a fight, but if you want to do something else for a while you won't have it draining away. As it stands now, if you want the 400 rep badge you have to do nothing but PvP until you get it.......and I don't have the time to commit to that.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I have this mindset that won't allow me to farm for badges. |
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Getting that badge by straight PvP seems like it would be a nightmare to me. It was slow enough when I was just dying over and over with a cycle of ten different toons; trying to maintain a high rate of kills with targest actively fighting back - I'm not surprised it's taking you years.
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My main currently has 400-some, and not a single one was farmed. I earned them all the hard way.
So, yeah, earning PvP badges is a bit of a chore for me.
Unfortunately, since the server my main is on doesn't have that active of a PvP community anymore, I don't have much choice in who I attack. If they show up orange I pretty much HAVE to go after them.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
When secondary builds were announced (and long before we knew details) I assumed well, hoped we would get a secondary build for PvP only. My dream was that it would give the option to create a full L50 build even at L1 with setIOs being available in drop down menues and the ability to respec at a specific contact as often as you want. I believe this would have been a great thing for PvP.