PvP and Badge Hunting Just Don't Mix
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-03-19 20:46 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
yep. you go into a PvP zone, you expect nay, plan to get attacked by other players.
anytime myself or one of my SG-mates has wanted to do some badge hunting or temp power grabbing in a PvP zone we'll rally up anyone else in the Sg thats on and go in ready for a fight. if there's not enoguh of us on to achieve our goal or even just hold out against other teams, then we make a plan for another day and go in then.
simple.
MrFire/Kin wanted badges in a PvP zone, the Op wanted a chance at PvP recipes and the zone caters to both. if he doesn't like ya attacking him he shoulda left.
Personally I think it was stupid to add defeat badges to a pvp zone.
I don't mind shivans or nukes risk vs.reward,but,trying to destroy an assload of pillboxes or defeat Statesman while having someone jump you is stupid.
It creates friction everytime I see it and further creates a gulf between pvpers and pvers,trying to get through a zone for explorations is fun sort of a running the gauntlet.
But really trying to do the defeats is lame when you get jumped,the time spent getting the heroes to spawn then trying to fight them with new pvp rules just plain sucks.
I don't blame pvpers it isn't their fault,they are just doing what they want to have fun.It's the devs fault it's a known fact it causes problems and makes pvers just hate pvp even more.
More so now especially with the slim *** possibility that said pvper can get a pvp io.Usually when someone tries to engage me in a fight I run,they only want to farm me for a drop,it doesn't make it fun for me so I'm not going to make it fun for them.Sry no io for you buh-bye.
Entering a PvP zone for PvE goals, I follow a specific set of personal rules.
1) Do so when the server population is low. 0400 Pacific works okay.
2) Shut off Broadcast (just like in PvE zones)
3) Keep Quiet.
4) Keep Moving.
5) If goal is blocked by hostiles, move to a different one.
But that's just me,YMMV. 
I'm okay with the Shivans, Warburg Nukes, etc. I used to go after them, but in recent times, I no longer bother. The only thing I'll PvE in a PvP zone is for the badges required for redside Accolades.
These bothered me. I always felt that the real reason to include these badges wasn't primarily to goad PvE players into PvP zones, but to level-lock the Redside accolades. Blueside did this by putting Exploration badges in Hazard Zones, which redside doesn't have. I felt that if they wanted to level lock the Redside Accolades, they could have done so by swapping out the PvP Zone Exploration Badge with a PvE zone Exploration Badge plus a Level Badge (Soldier, Captain, Made, etc.) plus some annoying to get badge (Venomous, Infiltrator, Unvieler, etc.).
I dont go into pvp zones with the intention of purely pvpin. I go into them with the idea that i'll be in pve mode.
If somebody attacks me i'll automatically either try and flee or fight back. I've had some good pvp experiences when i;ve had zero intention of doing so. Most PvPers that i know will leave you be most of the time if you fight back once in a while, i know if i saw an "easy target" in the zone i'ld try and go for it.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Anyone that decides to enter through the PvP zones no matter what they are after are fair game, obviously. If anyone really tells you otherwise, they can either cry about it in tells or try some lolbroadcast PvP... or just leave.
Reminds me of the subdivision of PvPers called fiteclubbers. Made up rules in zones have no ground to stand on, and certain people might listen to said rules but you cannot expect everyone to listen or really care.
As long as your name cons orange, that is the green flag to attack no matter what people say.
@Midnight Havoc @Ice-GX
As seen in these threads (yeah, they pop up every now and then), asking folks not to fight you in a PvP zone doesn't work. You just get the same old arguments and such.
(Okay, I never bothered asking someoine to back off, but I'm going by what I've seen in these threads.)
But what about trying something like this:
Me: Ow. Good Shot.
Me: Say, how many points of Rep did you get from that?
You: <Any Response>
Me: K. See you in ten min when the timer resets?
Me: <moves on to something/somewhere else>
Quote:
No, that's why you don't like it. You choose not to make lemonade out of lemons and find your fun however you can.|
Originally Posted by Paladin_Musashi
Except that some of us can't have fun when PvP is involved. I've only had ganking punks ruin a run through a PvP zone a few times, because I tend to hit the PvP zones at odd hours if I want a Shivan or Nuke (And I couldn't give a crap about badges in general so I don't badge in PvP zones at all). And one of those occasions I actually pimpsmacked the little Stalker punk and his Brute bodyguard singlehandedly. I took satisfaction in ruining their fun, but it wasn't fun in the slightest for me. Satisfying yes, because I think they're jerks, and it's always satisfying to wipe the smile off a jerk's face, but fun? Not at all.
I do not like PvP. I simply cannot have fun in that sort of competitive atmosphere. It's nice that you can, but a large segment of the playerbase simply cannot and never will. It's the height of poor design to keep trying to force them into the PvP zones when they're never going to have fun there. That's why it's bad design. |
I hate to break it to you, but if you apply such a singleminded outlook to a lot of aspects of a lot of games, you'll find they're "bad design"
I think that instead that means it's just design you don't agree with yet it works for a lot of other players who don't put such strict limits on what they're willing to do.
I don't particularly like PvP either. But there are times when it can be fun. When it becomes not fun, I stop. There's enough other things to do and badges to work on that I never truly "need" that badge right NOW. You're not forced to do anything you don't want to.
Options are good design. Variation is good design.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Quote:
Actually I'd say it's a design flaw.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
No, that's why you don't like it. You choose not to make lemonade out of lemons and find your fun however you can.
I hate to break it to you, but if you apply such a singleminded outlook to a lot of aspects of a lot of games, you'll find they're "bad design" I think that instead that means it's just design you don't agree with yet it works for a lot of other players who don't put such strict limits on what they're willing to do. I don't particularly like PvP either. But there are times when it can be fun. When it becomes not fun, I stop. There's enough other things to do and badges to work on that I never truly "need" that badge right NOW. You're not forced to do anything you don't want to. Options are good design. Variation is good design. |
Much like action games, that will randomly have an arbitery stealth level.
((You're the re-incarnated concept of violence, but you've got to sneak in this bit or its game over.))
Likewise putting things that are required for PVE advantages, in a zone that requires an entirely different type of gameplay interaction, with its own rules and stat sets, is a flawed design.
Take a look at Warcraft, PVP is an alternative form of character advancement, but there is never a point where you must go and PVP to advance in PVE.
Unlike CoX where red side accolades require PVP badges.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
Anything in this game, can be beat without the use of Shivans or Bukes. So, it has no effect on the PvE game.
|
Originally Posted by Paladin_Musashi
Except that some of us can't have fun when PvP is involved. I've only had ganking punks ruin a run through a PvP zone a few times, because I tend to hit the PvP zones at odd hours if I want a Shivan or Nuke (And I couldn't give a crap about badges in general so I don't badge in PvP zones at all). And one of those occasions I actually pimpsmacked the little Stalker punk and his Brute bodyguard singlehandedly. I took satisfaction in ruining their fun, but it wasn't fun in the slightest for me. Satisfying yes, because I think they're jerks, and it's always satisfying to wipe the smile off a jerk's face, but fun? Not at all.
I do not like PvP. I simply cannot have fun in that sort of competitive atmosphere. It's nice that you can, but a large segment of the playerbase simply cannot and never will. It's the height of poor design to keep trying to force them into the PvP zones when they're never going to have fun there. That's why it's bad design. Nothing awarded in a PvP zone should have any effect on the PvE game at all. If Shivans are going to be in PvP zones they should ONLY be usable on other players. Same with nukes. Same with anything placed in a PvP zone, ever. Including PvP IO drops. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
It makes it 'easier', therefore it does have an effect on the game.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Anything in this game, can be beat without the use of Shivans or Bukes. So, it has no effect on the PvE game.
|
Technically you can 'beat' anything in the game unslotted, so I guess enhancements have no effect on the game right?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
And what badges does it require? Exploration. Exploration badges arent hard to get even during peak time, got killed and still managed to get all the exploration badges in the zone.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Actually I'd say it's a design flaw.
Much like action games, that will randomly have an arbitery stealth level. ((You're the re-incarnated concept of violence, but you've got to sneak in this bit or its game over.)) Likewise putting things that are required for PVE advantages, in a zone that requires an entirely different type of gameplay interaction, with its own rules and stat sets, is a flawed design. Take a look at Warcraft, PVP is an alternative form of character advancement, but there is never a point where you must go and PVP to advance in PVE. Unlike CoX where red side accolades require PVP badges. |
And truthfully, the zone for Shivans isn't really that hard to do PvE in.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
None of those things are required for PvE. Desired? Yeah. Just like in WoW there are PvP only weapons, mounts, armor, and other things I desire.
|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Actually I'd say it's a design flaw.
Much like action games, that will randomly have an arbitery stealth level. ((You're the re-incarnated concept of violence, but you've got to sneak in this bit or its game over.)) Likewise putting things that are required for PVE advantages, in a zone that requires an entirely different type of gameplay interaction, with its own rules and stat sets, is a flawed design. Take a look at Warcraft, PVP is an alternative form of character advancement, but there is never a point where you must go and PVP to advance in PVE. Unlike CoX where red side accolades require PVP badges. |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Quote:
However unlike WoW there is a difference, the 'desired' things blue side do not require ever entering a PVP zone, they do however red side. It'd be the equivelent of making one piece of horde tier whatever armour, available only by participating in PVP, while the alliance just had to PVE.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
None of those things are required for PvE. Desired? Yeah. Just like in WoW there are PvP only weapons, mounts, armor, and other things I desire.
|
And while some people may not see it as a major inconvience, it's still forcing people to participate in a different gameplay mechanic, for something to be used in another mechanic.
If people can see that forcing people to PVP in STO is bad design, and their dev team is supposedly the 'rubbish' people from this games previous team...
That's without going into the whole deivided community, which unfortunetly CoX suffers from ((Though perhaps not as bad as other games.)).
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
I agree Blue side needs more PvP accolades ^_^.
You're being rude. PVP should involve consent, or it isn't any fun anyway. What is the point of PVP against a target that doesn't fight back? Even PVE is more interesting than that.
People who fight those who don't want to fight, whether PVEers or duelers, are bad sports and trolling even if what they do is within the rules. If defeating some person who's trying to do somethng else and can't even fight back effectively is entertaining to you, then you are a troll and have no sense of competitive PVP pride.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
The thing is the mechanics of Recluse's Victory aren't even PVP based.
Defeat PVE encounter, click interact point, repeat until you spawn another PVE encounter, defeat for badges.
What does 'winning' the zone give you?
Nothing.
Compare it to Arathi Basin, a similar PVP zone with a capture the area mechanic. Winning there gives you points/merits/stuff for buying improved gear with PVP focused stats.
It's not even like Siren's call/Warburg where you'd be able to sort of claim that by defeating players engaged in the PVE aspect, you were getting yourself stuff for PVPing with (tempoary powers).
Honestly they could disable PVP in the zone, and it'd have the exact same event mechanics.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Wait a sec, wait a sec.
The guy said "Please stop attacking us." Us, implying multiple people.
Why did they not just turn around and attack you? Even if they're "not PVPers," if they've got the numbers, they'd likely be able to hold a single PVPer off. Or even a smallish group.
Regardless, it is a PVP zone. You can't "accidentally" go in. They even moved the liason out of the zone so you're never forced in (of course, that was pre-mission-drop, so you wouldn't be forced in these days anyway.) If they don't want to fight as a group, don't want to touch PVP - then, yes, leave and come in at another, not-as-busy time.
Quote:
Don't be ridiculous...of course you're a jerk. Of course you were griefing. |
Originally Posted by SmegHead
So do you think I'm a jerk for PvPing in a PvP zones and not letting this guy get his badges, or just playing the game the way it was designed to be played? Should we have let them cake walk through it or do what we did and made them work for the badge? |
But he/she was in a PvP zone so you were completely in the right to do so.
Quote:
PvP in a PvP zone is not griefing.
|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
Don't be ridiculous...of course you're a jerk. Of course you were griefing.
But he/she was in a PvP zone so you were completely in the right to do so. |
Quote:
Really? Are the people that enter a zone that tells you as soon as you enter that you can be attacked at any time and expect not to get attacked good sports? The type that expect you not to use a zone the way it was meant to be used?|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
You're being rude. PVP should involve consent, or it isn't any fun anyway. What is the point of PVP against a target that doesn't fight back? Even PVE is more interesting than that.
People who fight those who don't want to fight, whether PVEers or duelers, are bad sports and trolling even if what they do is within the rules. If defeating some person who's trying to do somethng else and can't even fight back effectively is entertaining to you, then you are a troll and have no sense of competitive PVP pride. |
Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44744jvpgGg
The ones that don't expect a zone to be used in the way it was designed and think they deserve a free pass for the badges are bad sports IMO, but thats just me.
If you think they are bad sports, why waste your time with them? Just move on to someone that will enjoy PvPing with you. Then both of you will have a better time.
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The Justiciars
PvP threads always deliver.
*thumbsup*
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1. Smeg is evil.
2. Game codes > imaginary social codes.
3. PvPers like getting recipes worth up to 4 billion off the market.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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Quote:
This is not true. When you're running the Sister Psyche TF, at less than max level for it, with SO only toons that haven't been twinked out with a fortune from a higher level toon, and 6 of your 8 players drop leaving just an archery blaster and a tanker who has not soft capped or maxed out his resists (I forget exactly what kind of tank the guy was) you will find that there are things in the game you simply cannot beat, full stop.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Anything in this game, can be beat without the use of Shivans or Bukes. So, it has no effect on the PvE game.
|
The two of us decided we would pick up Shivans and make another attempt, because we could get Clamor down to almost half health before she finished us off. So we hit Bloody Bay, and the aforementioned Stalker and Brute started ganking us, camping the firebases and basically making ***** of themselves, considering they were just chain-ganking us, clearly not making any rep for most of the kills.
To me, that's not someone being a friendly competitor (Which is something that barely exists anyway, despite the fiction people would like to maintain about competitive activities in general) but rather someone acting like a schoolyard bully.
This duo of people obviously were not seeking an actual challenge, but rather just wanted to have fun by making things not fun for others, griefing, in short. And yes, I have zero respect for PvPers who talk about the challenge of PvP and how PvE is so lame and boring because it's too easy, and then spend their time ganking people who have not built their toons for PvP, do not have a PvP skillset as a player, and will not provide any kind of challenging fight. This is bullying to me, not gaming.
This was in the wee hours of the morning, which is why I had suggested we should hit the zone, thinking it would be empty. The fact that this duo of villains were camping the zone at an hour when there was clearly not going to be any competition tells me they were there to be jerks to people who only want to pick up a Shivan and get out.
So we decide if we sit in the longbow base by the helicopter, they might get bored and go home. No such luck, they start teleporting us out of the base and ganking us. My blaster has a raptor pack and neither of these guys can fly, or even superjump, but the tanker is getting owned.
My response to bullies in the real world has always been to punch them in the nose. So I told my friend, after tricking the jerks into getting droned, to go and sneak out along a route he wouldn't likely be seen while the two were coming back, and I set a trap for them. I switched to a squishy toon, and waited in the base like I was there for the zone time badge. They couldn't resit the bait and tp'd me again. Sadly for them the squishy I had switched to was my level 50 completely IO'd out Fire/Kin farmer. Who already had a full set of Shivans. And an Amy.
The instant I was tp'd I summoned the Shivan. Hot feet did what I expected and revealed the incompetent stalker by doing some damage. I slapped him with my hold and summoned Amy and he was dead before the Brute could really wade in, which meant he ended up dying too.
Final proof that they were pathetic little bullies? They left the zone.
Again, satisfying, but not in the least way fun.
Tanker friend got his Shivans, I switched back to my Blaster, and we went and finished off Clamor and succeeded at the TF. That was fun.
However, I'd be happy if they removed Shivans from the game entirely, as long as they take them out of PvP zones.
PS: Make all the fancy arguments you want, but I know every last one of you PvPers who want the Shivans and Nukes kept in the PvP zones are just bullies who like to beat up on people who can't or won't fight back. There's no good reason to keep them there other than to bring people who don't want to PvP into PvP zones, and the only reason you would want that is if you are a bully who enjoys causing others grief. End of story.
I actually hid a parallel situation
Was pillboxing solo, got jumped by a Dom doing it.
Backed out of range of the pillbox weapons, then tried to put up as good as fight as I could.
Lost.
He went his way, I went mine afterwards.
Thats generally my approach, An 8 man gank squad I'd normally just try to evade, but under the current rules, the chances of that are slim to none.
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