PvP and Badge Hunting Just Don't Mix

So, you agree then that players can be griefed in a pvp zone. Thank you.

Yes, for you and your kind.

Originally Posted by Black_Barrier Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...

So get off the field (leave the zone)

Yes, there is.

"ZOMG leave me alone u evil pvper let me get my badge" is not it, though. Pretty much the ONLY things considered griefing, officially - as in "That the GMs will take action on" - are:

1. Specific exploits, when found. I honestly can't think of one right offhand (that specifically takes place in a PVP zone, not things like "getting confused in a PVP zone, rushing out and nuking your own side in Atlas Park.")

2. Forcing a player into inescapable geometry/"Map holes" - such as one spot under some rubble in Siren's Call, or into the watchtowers (which have since had doors added to them so you can exit.)

3. Excessive language that goes against the TOS (hate speech, slurs, etc. - and they're a bit laxer about it in the zones.)

Note "attacking someone who just wants a badge" is not in there. Nor is "They ganged up on me," "They didn't let me get my shivan," or "they attacked me when I was just watching someone else." Even some things that would be considered griefing in PVE (attacking your own side when confused, training mobs onto players) are not considered griefing in PVP. Not by the PVPers definition, but *by the people who made the game.* Hell, even the devs have trained mobs onto players in PVP.

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That would require thought though.

Originally Posted by Black_Barrier Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...

However by CoH's nature as an MMORPG, it requires interaction between players to accomplish goals, so by soloing you're not playing the game right.

Seemingly like those who head into a PVP zone without the intent of engaging in player versus player combat.

While the game may not force you into a team, I can send you a team invite, causing a disruptive pop up. I can keep doing this, even if you request me to stop.

Of course we then get into issues such as ignore, /hide and the red flag status, but technically me requesting you team with me, when ever you log on, nay insisting you team is no more griefing than continuing to PVP with some one after they request you to stop.

But I want to go pick up that thing, that's on the field over there.

Um, no it doesn't? There are very, very few things in this game that REQUIRE interaction between players to accomplish goals. These are things like multi-glowie clicks, raids, and stuff like that. They are few and far between. Everything else in the game, even AVs and GMs, can be solo'd. The devs have specifically implemented changes so that solo players can solo easier. This flies in the face of your claim that player interaction is 'required'.

Intent has nothing to do with it. By staying in the zone past the countdown, you agree to be a target, whether you intend to PVP or not.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

Wait until the match is over and get it then

(Run round getting your badges at an off peak time)

Tokyo would you please clearly define what is and is not allowed by game design/rules within a PvP zone?

Originally Posted by Black_Barrier Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...

If there was no PvE content in the PvP zones, then there'd be no need to go in there... but there is, so to get at the PvE content we're not given the choice to whether we want to PvP or not, hence the "Additional rules of conduct" that people make up in order to accommodate those who have no choice but to enter the zone.

e.g. I want the badges for my hero, or as a villain - the accolade power

when teaming we're given the choice, when PvP'ing we're not. To get at certain content you must enter a PvP zone and you must accept the zone rules whether you want to or not. There's no "Click here if you do not accept", you just have to leave as you're going to be unable to get at the content that you want to as a player.

To be honest I fail to understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp too. Either remove the PvE content from the zones, or give us the ability to enter a PvP zone with a simple "Challenge/Response" mechanism in place.

"<Villain/Hero Name> wants to challenge you to PvP. Do you accept? <yes>/<no>"

I click no. Challenger moves on to someone who does want to PvP, and I get to go about my PvE business in the zone.

If you want a nuke, or a Shivan. Then fine, you have to accept the zone rules. But if you just want to go for a walk, you should be able to do that too without fear of ending up in a hospital because someone doesn't understand the concept of "I don't want to PvP" even though I'm in a PvP zone.

List one thing that's required in the PVP zone for you to get from 1-50, or finish any mission as designed.

Not one? Then there is no need to go in there. Personal desire is not need. I need food and a way to stay hydrated to stay alive. I do not need a $500/plate dinner and $1000 bottle of wine at a fancy restaraunt.

When introduced, there WAS an actual need to go into a PVP zone - the liason that you were sent to (and which blocked further missions) was inside the PVP zone. That contact was moved to the outside of the zone - thus removing the only actual need to enter. Even you acknowledge the difference, though you tend to want to paint it as a need:

Or, for emphasis:

Note the lack of "I require this to be able to finish a mission/getting to 50."

Fix't

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Technically you can't solo an AV/GM without player interaction, unless you've been so fantastically lucky that during your solo career you've managed to get the right sets, to create a GM killer build.

By logging into the game, you agree to interact with other players, whether you intend to or not. However you can, limit this interaction, some one spamming you team invites or tells can be ignored, you can set your self to hide, decline invites and so on.

So why are there no methods of doing the same for the PVE content in PVP zones?

Now imagine if the devs hadn't put an auto-decline option into the game, you want to log in and run a few missions solo. I invite you to team, you send a tell requesting I stop doing so, I instead repeatedly invite you. Now you could at this point do something else, a different game or different character, but your initial goals remain unfulfilled. You could wait until I've logged out, and then play, but why should you?

I guess ultimately the issue raises two questions, is it okay to be a jackass, just because the rules allow you to?

and

Where are the PVE only versions of the PVP zones?

"You can't solo an AV/GM without player interaction?" Given that you, yourself, are a player, "duh." No, you can't solo an AV/GM without logging in and doing something, no.

No, you don't. I can completely ignore everyone else and go play in my one-account SG base if I so choose. Doing so has no impact on my game play. I don't have to interact with anyone - you can send me things and I can ignore them completely. (Which, given you get no indication of anything coming in when in the base editor, is very easy to do.)

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*Tell sound*

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*Tell sound*

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*Tell sound*

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*Tell sound*

And so on.

<sigh> and that's why these threads just end up getting silly. Take a look at the requirements for the "Megalomaniac" accolade. Question answered.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I think you need to re-read what I asked. Let me highlight the relevant part:

You do not require that to get from 1-50. You WANT that. You do not require that. I think I have one, maybe two villains with it, yet I have several at 50. Nothing requires it. You do not need it to finish an undroppable mission.

So, yes, in a way you did answer the question - "Nothing in a PVP zone is required to get to 1-50, finish any mission/tf/sf, or finish the game." Therefore, if you don't want to risk engaging in PVP, or someone else attacking you, you have nothing forcing you to enter a PVP zone and no reason to enter and insist PVPers leave you alone. "Want" isn't it.

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You assume I have my headphones on. Or that I have those sounds up. Or that I can hear it over music, or me talking to my friends. You know what happens when you assume, right?

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Do you stop attacking PvE mobs, when they get stuck in such way that they can be attacked, but don't fight back at all? Not counting holds, I mean they get stuck in the enviorment, they can be attacked and yet they can't attack back?

Same thing.

Player vs Player means exactly that...you're opponent is a player. If they're AFK, would rather not fight, suck at PvP...doesn't matter.

That is the risk vs reward.

As for PvE content in zones. Okay, ask the devs to change the badged needed for the redside accolades. PvE content is out of the zones.

Badges/Shivans/Nukes...those aren't PvE content. Those are bonuses from entering PvP zones, that can have an effect on the PvE game, but aren't needed at all for anything PvE related.

You don't NEED the accolade. And grabbing the 1 exploration badge and clicking on 1 plaque, keeps you moving, sooo, they're quite easy to obtain. You after all don't NEED all the exploration badges.

Badge count isn't PvE, it's just a bonus little fun mini-game.

If there is a football game going on you will be removed from the field. Since we lack a mechanic like that this analogy doesn't really work.

A more apt comparison would be you are wandering around a lovely wooded glade where there is a war being waged and you are wearing the uniform of a side. Telling the other side you are a pacifist and not interested in the war probably won't be very successful.

"Now listen guys, I know there's a war going on, and this is a battlefield, but I'm not interrested in your little war, I just want to pick these pretty little flow..." *ROCKET LAUNCHER TO FACE*

Red Cross.

War journalists.