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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
That's all well and good, but first I'd like the devs to look into why those powers go unclicked.
For example, my Unstoppable gathers dust not because there haven't been situations that may call for a Tier 9, but because I think it's a poor power, is designed in such a way that makes people not want to use it and is a joke compared to One with the Shield and Strength of Will. It's a 3 minute delayed suicide button on a long recharge that doesn't help cover the holes in the set it belongs to and frankly is more trouble than its worth. Another example: I don't use Hand Clap because it's completely counter-intuitive to damage dealing, surviving or tanking. It serves no useful purpose and creating an artificial need for such a power would only anger and annoy me, rather than make me want to use it. . |
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That sounds good, but... how does that affect rewards for people who jump into a Trial half way through (or one thats about to end)? And what if you don't want to join in on a Trial in progress, do you get the option to remain in the queue to wait for the next one to start?
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Originally Posted by Positron
If, during the course of the Trial, the number drops below 12 from disconnects or quits, then people in the queue will be able to join the event in progress to bring the number back up to the minimum.
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I think you are overlooking the SG/global channel factor just a little bit here.|
Originally Posted by Liquid
What about the Leagues themselves? If 112 Scrappers, Blasters, and Stalkers are in the queue, and 24 Defenders, Corruptors, and Controllers are in the queue, are you going to get several Leagues filled with no support? Or will it try to distribute ATs among Leagues in some attempt at a balanced manner?
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There are plenty of small-to-midsized SGs out there right now chomping at the bit for this and will do it as often as possible to get incarnate awards, just like the WTFs now. These people will be the norm and will most likely bring as balanced a team as possible to the table just like they would a STF or RSF.
The solo player joining a queue will happen regularly, but I think they will be met with a majority of a league that's made up of 3-4 SG teams formed in advance.
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I think you're right, but it still can be a valid concern. Even among my social circle, if we don't consciously look for a support character, we can pretty easily end up with teams of all Tankers, Scrappers, and Brutes.|
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
I think you are overlooking the SG/global channel factor just a little bit here.
There are plenty of small-to-midsized SGs out there right now chomping at the bit for this and will do it as often as possible to get incarnate awards, just like the WTFs now. These people will be the norm and will most likely bring as balanced a team as possible to the table just like they would a STF or RSF. |
On the upside, it only takes one or two support characters to let a team run smoothly.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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I'm not sure I like the sound of this. It sounds like it could be very easy to be forced into a raid with the minimal numbers of players, even if everybody would prefer to wait for more people to join (this depends on how you define "short amount of time", of course).|
Originally Posted by Positron
Just to clarify:
If a Trial is set to 12 to 24, then once the queue hits 12 people, there is a short amount of time that the queue waits for more people to join. If it hits 24 in that amount of time, it immediately starts. If the amount of time expires, it starts with whatever number was in the queue at that point. If, during the course of the Trial, the number drops below 12 from disconnects or quits, then people in the queue will be able to join the event in progress to bring the number back up to the minimum. |
Me, I like choice. I think I would prefer a system where a raid can choose to start once the minimum is reached, but can also choose to wait (you'd probably have to have some sort of voting system for this to be fair, though).
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Er... wait. |
Originally Posted by Positron
The League Leader can rearrange teams by dragging and dropping in the League UI.
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So, I get my SG-small-team together, little core of (say) 4 people that work well together and can pretty much rocket anyone else through whatever. We decide to do this trial thing.
We then get randomly rearranged if the league leader feels like it?
Is the league leader going to be able to *boot* people from individual teams (or from the league/trial overall?) Or is that specific power being held for the team leader? Or both?
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No, I'm not. I'm specifically asking about how the LFG queue works.
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Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
I think you are overlooking the SG/global channel factor just a little bit here.
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Here we go:|
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
Or the more inept are still doing because they can't seem to read simple English that tells them what they were whining for is being added to the game.
I kind of figured that even though the solo cry of "Give us SOME WAY, no matter how long it takes, to solo Incarnate stuff" would almost instantly become "Give us a way that's as quick as Incarnate Raids to solo Incarnate stuff" the moment a change was announced. This isn't a solo player superhero game like Wolverine: Origins where each fight can be programmed to a specific build to provide the most action and risk for a reward. There is little to no way to make a solo encounter in this game that amounts to more than "Pop a shivan and punch" or "Pop a tray of purples and punch," because each encounter would have to magically conform to whatever AT or build the solo player was playing as. I think the true data mining I'd love to see would be whether people, in the span of 50 levels, tend to repeat storylines or TFs/SFs/Raids more in average. Whichever one has more people doing said content more times should get more of the developers attention. |
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Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
Most likely for a very punitive cost, yes, and thus for an insane time investment given the low drop rate of shards during solo and small-team content.
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I notice you just completely ignored the fact that exemplard 50s will get shard drops now, because no, that doesn't change the dynamic in the slightest...I swear, some people...
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Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
Most likely for a very punitive cost, yes, and thus for an insane time investment given the low drop rate of shards during solo and small-team content.
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The problem with this is that you end up fracturing the people who are ready to play. People who have only a limited amount of time to play and want to get started ASAP aren't going to comply with a vote. They'll drop and rejoin the queue, leaving you with that much more time to wait for a full league. |
Originally Posted by DarkGob
Me, I like choice. I think I would prefer a system where a raid can choose to start once the minimum is reached, but can also choose to wait (you'd probably have to have some sort of voting system for this to be fair, though).
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If the interface were instead something like where on joining the queue you can choose whether to start as soon as you have the minimum number or to wait until you have a full league, you're going to be waiting a long time as the ASAP teams will get first preference.
Second Measure specifically addressed the problem of accessibility: the trials and the turnstile system are designed such that people who have only a limited amount of time can log on and jump into a 30-60 minute trial with a minimum of downtime. It isn't cool to make them wait when the minimum number of people is already available.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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True, and if you really want to go for a full size group, you can do it the old fashioned way, right?|
Originally Posted by Bosstone
The problem with this is that you end up fracturing the people who are ready to play. People who have only a limited amount of time to play and want to get started ASAP aren't going to comply with a vote. They'll drop and rejoin the queue, leaving you with that much more time to wait for a full league.
If the interface were instead something like where on joining the queue you can choose whether to start as soon as you have the minimum number or to wait until you have a full league, you're going to be waiting a long time as the ASAP teams will get first preference. Second Measure specifically addressed the problem of accessibility: the trials and the turnstile system are designed such that people who have only a limited amount of time can log on and jump into a 30-60 minute trial with a minimum of downtime. It isn't cool to make them wait when the minimum number of people is already available. |
Probably the best solution, all (or...most) things considered.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
Where did they say cross-server?
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Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
What?
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| no matter how long it takes to get together 8 to 12 players--you will be teleported to the Trial by forces beyond mortal ken (i.e. the server). |
Edited my original post to not further spread the ignorance I had!
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Yes.
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
Also, are the teams able to rearrange players between them, in case, say, one is overloaded on melee and one's overloaded on control?
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Man, you got totally scooped by Positron. |
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Yes.
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
I don’t want to sound like I have multiple personality disorder. I’m ecstatic about the solo option. I actually don’t care how many shards it takes, unless it’s like Tier 6 Epic Badge level; i.e. if I can solo a L1 to 4 tier of Incarnate under half a year, I’m happy.
I am, however, concerned, about shards while examplared. I am actually on the dev end of things on this one and I’m worried about the potential exploits on this. A L1 Minion is much easier to solo as a L1 then to solo a L50 minion as a L50. For example, I can one-shot any L1 minion with my distance vet power. My L50 does some nice damage to a L50 minion, but no-where near one-shot.
I don’t want to see devs have to scramble to adjust shard drops rates if they overlook, well, not the above, the devs surely know this more than me, but the AMOUNT of work some will do to min-max the shard drop rate. I’m sure someone will post that (making this up) the “Fight Dr Vazhilok” arc has the best shard drop rate on all levels, and everyone jumps on the one exemplared arc. I’m sure the devs would adjust then and there, but we all know that’ll stem a 100+ page nerf thread, and I’d like to avoid the unnecessary bad feelings by thinking a little ahead. The devs know some players will min-max, but they are routinely surprised by how FAR some will go (cough, MA, cough).
Personally, I’d put exemplared shards only on the WSTs that are under 50, or whatever similar new mechanisms come up rather than blank statements of “exemplar gives shards.” I’m probably a worry-wart, I just feel the dark cloud of misuse around the corner. I hope I’m wrong.
I do hope I also didn’t cause any heart attacks on readers that know me, with my taking the devs side and wanting brakes on solo-ing. I just wanted a solo path. I have it. Now I have to take off my “Solo Hat” and put on my “Fairness Hat” to make sure Teams and Raids get their fair share too. All the while, doing this with minimal exploits and/or bad feelings. Rollbacks are often necessary, but rarely well received.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Er... wait.
So, I get my SG-small-team together, little core of (say) 4 people that work well together and can pretty much rocket anyone else through whatever. We decide to do this trial thing. We then get randomly rearranged if the league leader feels like it? Is the league leader going to be able to *boot* people from individual teams (or from the league/trial overall?) Or is that specific power being held for the team leader? Or both? |
I don't know about anyone else, but I read it as more of if you go in as a group, you stay as one. I think the team leader would move everyone into the queue as opposed to everyone else doing it on their own. At least, that's what would make sense.
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In the time you killing two level 1 minions with your vet power, I'll kill 10+ level 50 minions with my AoEs.
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Originally Posted by Fiery_Redeemer
I dont want to sound like I have multiple personality disorder. Im ecstatic about the solo option. I actually dont care how many shards it takes, unless its like Tier 6 Epic Badge level; i.e. if I can solo a L1 to 4 tier of Incarnate under half a year, Im happy.
I am, however, concerned, about shards while examplared. I am actually on the dev end of things on this one and Im worried about the potential exploits on this. A L1 Minion is much easier to solo as a L1 then to solo a L50 minion as a L50. For example, I can one-shot any L1 minion with my distance vet power. My L50 does some nice damage to a L50 minion, but no-where near one-shot. I dont want to see devs have to scramble to adjust shard drops rates if they overlook, well, not the above, the devs surely know this more than me, but the AMOUNT of work some will do to min-max the shard drop rate. Im sure someone will post that (making this up) the Fight Dr Vazhilok arc has the best shard drop rate on all levels, and everyone jumps on the one exemplared arc. Im sure the devs would adjust then and there, but we all know thatll stem a 100+ page nerf thread, and Id like to avoid the unnecessary bad feelings by thinking a little ahead. The devs know some players will min-max, but they are routinely surprised by how FAR some will go (cough, MA, cough). Personally, Id put exemplared shards only on the WSTs that are under 50, or whatever similar new mechanisms come up rather than blank statements of exemplar gives shards. Im probably a worry-wart, I just feel the dark cloud of misuse around the corner. I hope Im wrong. I do hope I also didnt cause any heart attacks on readers that know me, with my taking the devs side and wanting brakes on solo-ing. I just wanted a solo path. I have it. Now I have to take off my Solo Hat and put on my Fairness Hat to make sure Teams and Raids get their fair share too. All the while, doing this with minimal exploits and/or bad feelings. Rollbacks are often necessary, but rarely well received. |
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Well, a few things to this.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
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First, Second Measure's post quoted here was entered into the forums while I was replying to another message, and was marked read by the forums, so no, I did not see it. My bad; the post is much more clear and very helpful, and had it not been marked read it would have changed my latter post greatly. However, my interpretation of the first post I quoted still stands -- the producers letter was ambiguous and reasonably interpreted as such. Fortunately, the dev staff clarified it, which was almost exactly what I was asking for.
And yet, only almost. Why caveat it on only those that are available via the Incarnate trials? Are there others? Will those be accessible to soloers? Surely by now after the many dozens of pages of discussion, that will be the case.
Finally, while my quoting did not preserve EvilGeko's snarky reformatting of the dev's post, that's exactly the sort of thing I think we need less of here.
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The thought of no more LFM, LFT thrills me to perpetually. I'm smiling right now to myself. I waste so much time doing this. I was on the other day(wednesday) and some dweebs on Freedom deliberately prevented me from joining so I couldn't get my weekly notice. Frankly, it was sad. But that goes away now.
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And yet my scrapper soloed him without any trouble last week.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Tyrant's not just insanely evil - he's insanely powerful too - he's survived a direct hit from a nuke, soloed a more advanced version of the Hamidon, and can even control the Well of the Furies to some extent - and he's also able to give massive power boosts to his henchpeople, as can be seen with battle Maiden on the Apex TF - so for a threat on that scale, having a few friends along to help is the sensible way to do it
 Plus, the threat of the Coming Storm will be even more insanely evil and powerful  |
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Where can I buy one of those rose color glasses?
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Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
He never said it was the "focus" just that there would be some in every issue for a while, and slots would unlock from time to time.
Way to make something into a negative, though you're getting real good at that. |
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Because there exist Incarnate abilities currently not acquirable by the trials, or for that matter by any means. If Second Measure said all Incarnate abilities will be craftable in I20 by shards and inf you'd have people saying he was a liar because Omega wasn't craftable in I20 with shards and Inf.|
Originally Posted by Ardrea
Why caveat it on only those that are available via the Incarnate trials? Are there others? Will those be accessible to soloers?
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This is why I keep telling the devs to let me translate, because I actually have the patience and the foresight to say:
All Incarnate abilities which exist within the crafting trees associated with Incarnate slots unlocked within I20, and which have any means to acquire the components to craft within I20, and which can actually be crafted within I20, will be theoretically craftable by using some combination of shards and influence provided the player character meets all other minimum requirements for accessing the Incarnate system, unlocking the slot, and crafting abilities, none of which said requirements will require completing content which has a game-enforced team size higher than one player or requires running content within an instance that requires the game-enforced presence of any other players.
This excludes:
1. Incarnate slots not available in I20 (not all are)
2. Powers the devs elect not to release in I20 (Alpha was originally released with only common and uncommon powers craftable by any means).
3. Player characters that have not yet reached level 50
4. Player characters that have not yet run Mender Ramiel's arc.
It specifically includes the possibility that those slots may, at release, have other prerequisites other than shards and inf, provided those prerequisites do not require mandatory execution of colloquially teamed content.
This also makes no explicit promise about future content, which neither Second Measure nor any of the red names is normally authorized to make. That particular caveat will always exists, and frankly I'm disinclined to honor the assertion its not inevitable with any shred of credibly worthwhile acknowledgement.
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Just so you know, I don't think 88 shards for a Notice qualifies as "accessible". It took me two weeks to get the 32 that my Uncommon boost cost.
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Originally Posted by Second Measure
About That Accessibility Thing
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That's a good question. How are team leaders chosen in turnstile-formed raids? Sometimes it doesn't matter who has the star, someone steps up and starts acting like a leader and others follow, but sometimes it does, and in a League setting it will matter.
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