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Nah, like typical people on the forums (some but not all) she's gotten something she wants and is now moving onto the next "big" thing, which is that crap on the markets cost too much, and we need more Inf sinks, dontcha know..?|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
This will inevitably cause people to complain they are forced, FORCED I TELL YOU, to resort to RMT to get their Incarnate powers.
Not saying it shouldn't be done, just pointing out the obvious. |
I swear, some people can't take a victory and move on.
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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Tyrant's not just insanely evil - he's insanely powerful too - he's survived a direct hit from a nuke, soloed a more advanced version of the Hamidon, and can even control the Well of the Furies to some extent - and he's also able to give massive power boosts to his henchpeople, as can be seen with battle Maiden on the Apex TF - so for a threat on that scale, having a few friends along to help is the sensible way to do it |
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Yeah, I'm surprised that the "path to true power" is to become a cog in the machine.
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Plus, the threat of the Coming Storm will be even more insanely evil and powerful
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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so, 20 m inf? I'd get behind that. So long as there wasn't a pointless cool down in between crafting. Making inf is cake. I donate the majority of my earnings to younger sg's to buy prestige, because ya know, I'm a dirty farmer.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
So? There are tons of ways to make inf in the game, including killing stuff, which you'll need to do to get your shards anyway. It's a stupid argument and I'll be happy to point anyone who makes it in the direction of the market forum where they will be torn to shreds by people who can refute that argument in their sleep. I don't expect the inf amount to be so high that only the most dedicated marketeers will be able to afford it. I just want it to be significant. More like A-merits, less like temp powers.
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Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Last time that happened was Issue 4, I'm guessing he thinks that was "Recent" y'know, before Castle was even a dev. I was actually there for that, we're all way over it by now. Without GND and ED we woudn't have the Incarnate System now.
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Care to point out the recent changes to To-hit, Accuracy, and Defense?
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"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
Pros: Soloable stuff
Cons: Making Incarnate stuff the focus of every issue. Seriously. Ew. Massive ew.
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He never said it was the "focus" just that there would be some in every issue for a while, and slots would unlock from time to time.|
Originally Posted by Toony
Pros: Soloable stuff
Cons: Making Incarnate stuff the focus of every issue. Seriously. Ew. Massive ew. |
Way to make something into a negative, though you're getting real good at that.
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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Ah, but does that mean there will be a Trial that requires 48 people to do it? Extrapolating from the first Trial, any future 48-player Trial would probably be set for 24-48 players. And compared to Hami and some other MMOs, 24 is still 'smallish.'|
Originally Posted by Void_Huntress
And before someone goes "This is not Particular Other Game", it's important to point out they've given us the ability to put together FORTY EIGHT PERSON groupings.
48. You don't set a limit that high unless you're prepared for people to hit it. |
The other question that will have to wait on is whether if there is such a monster Trial that requires more than three teams, that such a Trial would be necessary to 'progress' in Incarnacy? Or would doing the smaller one or two team Trials be sufficient?
Given what was said about the solo path, I wouldn't think so. This means that no one will be 'forced' to do the truly big Trials. Just like no one is 'forced' to take out the Grandville Flier.
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I don't think Void meant to say that was a bad thing. It was meant to illustrate that City, in addition to being casual and solo-friendly, is also about doing things on a large scale. Even a standard team in City is 8 people, which is significantly more than a standard team on That Other Game.
"This is not That Other Game" has been used as a bludgeon to justify the importance of creating options for solo players and small teams. It's easy to forget that it works the other way too; City naturally works in greater quantities.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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Pretty much this.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I agree with this concept completely. Starting a Task Force, Trial, Ouro arc, or an AE arc should boot you from a queue. Joining a team or running an instanced regular mission (normal contacts, newsies/scanners, or tips) should not boot you from the queue.
Once the queue is full and the system determines you can start, you should also not be INSTANTLY TPd to the location and teamed. Instead a pop-up with a countdown should come up. The countdown should likely be somewhere from 30 and 180 seconds. |
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Yay for mandatory PUGs on small servers?
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Where did they say that? In any team there are opportunities to be the hero to be special. Look at real wars. While armies fight together as "cogs in the machine" its not at all uncommon for individual troops to do things that are enormously heroic.
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Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
Nah, like typical people on the forums (some but not all) she's gotten something she wants and is now moving onto the next "big" thing, which is that crap on the markets cost too much, and we need more Inf sinks, dontcha know..?
I swear, some people can't take a victory and move on. |
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Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
Or the more inept are still doing because they can't seem to read simple English that tells them what they were whining for is being added to the game.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
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Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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He never said that |
Originally Posted by Toony
Making Incarnate stuff the focus of every issue. Seriously. Ew. Massive ew.
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Although, with the non-Incarnate content having a 7 year head start, there is a bit of catching up to do
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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True dat. I was anticipating the standard response and complaints and heading them off at the pass. |
Originally Posted by Bosstone
I don't think Void meant to say that was a bad thing.
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As Bosstone mentions, I was trying to illustrate exactly that point. And I think a 24-48 trial would be pretty amazing to include in the game, even if I never managed to play it (I have not, for instance, ever gone near a Hami; it took years before I managed a mothership raid). It should be there for the people who can, though.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Ah, but does that mean there will be a Trial that requires 48 people to do it? Extrapolating from the first Trial, any future 48-player Trial would probably be set for 24-48 players. And compared to Hami and some other MMOs, 24 is still 'smallish.'
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
The other question that will have to wait on is whether if there is such a monster Trial that requires more than three teams, that such a Trial would be necessary to 'progress' in Incarnacy? Or would doing the smaller one or two team Trials be sufficient?
Given what was said about the solo path, I wouldn't think so. This means that no one will be 'forced' to do the truly big Trials. Just like no one is 'forced' to take out the Grandville Flier. |
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
I don't think Void meant to say that was a bad thing. It was meant to illustrate that City, in addition to being casual and solo-friendly, is also about doing things on a large scale. Even a standard team in City is 8 people, which is significantly more than a standard team on That Other Game.
"This is not That Other Game" has been used as a bludgeon to justify the importance of creating options for solo players and small teams. It's easy to forget that it works the other way too; City naturally works in greater quantities. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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What is not to understand from even the first post.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
To be fair, in order to figure out you were getting what you wanted you had to read two separate posts and translate from marketingspeak into English, and even then I'm not entirely 100% sure.
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Everything up until the Notices and Favors can be crafted in-game now using Shards. Why would Second Measures (or anybody) for that matter post that things that are already craftable in game with Shards are going to be craftable with Shards in the future to expand accessibility? The few people I was thinking of when I posted the words you quoted are the people who A. wouldn't be happy no matter what decision the devs make because they like the attention complaining and threatening to quit gives them or B. couldn't be bothered to even read a dev post clarifying the subject.
If you ask me to respect a person who is acting like a repressed solo minority or someone who cares so little about the issue that they can't even read two redname posts (one of which is barely two paragraphs), I will kindly you what they did to earn that respect. Because they obviously don't respect this game, this forum, or themselves enough to spend time posting for the betterment of it.
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King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
Yeah, I'm excited for issue 20. Excited for the preview, excited for the trials, 8-16 person trial and 12-24 person trial, epic! Honestly the hole "turnstile" thing seems like a great idea, still curious about how the League thing will work out.
Even still all of this seems great and I can't wait to see new trials and Incarnate slots open!
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
Well, being able to get everything via Shards is a step in the right direction. I'm sure it will be prohibitively hard to do so, but it's still an improvement, and I can't help but support that move.
The addition of a turnstile is one of those "About damn time!" features that I'm very, very grateful for, even if I probably won't use it much. In the past, I've always been limited in running TF (and one hopes the turnstile will include TFs, at least eventually) by the fact that I need to see one forming. There's no chance in hell I'm putting one together myself, not any more, so I can really only do those when I catch one forming, and that ain't often, especially now that people are off doing WTFs I hate and want nothing to do with, and are out of my level range, to boot.
The turnstile system has the potential to turn TFs from a chore into a viable alternative for me, at the very least. By taking away the social aspect of forming and joining one, it removes the expectation of sociability when being on one, and I can run those the same way I run in Battlefield 2142 or L4D2 or any other multiplayer game where I don't need or want to speak with other people.
All of that said, multi-team raids do nothing for me. I want to see what else is in I20.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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As a 99% solo player, I am VERY happy about this announcement. When my wife and daughter are out of town, or asleep and my insomnia hits, I can do the odd TF. For the rest of the time, I can solo my way up the Incarnate path at my leisure.
I am curious as to what gating there will be for TF using the other 10 slots. If it’s like Alpha “Just have the alpha open”, it should be fine.
Assuming (making this number up) that 95% of 50s (that are interested in the system, of course) will have their Alpha’s open, and meaning 95% can do Apex / Tin mage; then if the same mechanism occurs for the others, say, Judgement needs to be open to do J-Trials, and 95 % of Judgement will be open, and so on, then math says 95%^10 = 59.87%. That’s 60% of people will have all 10 Incarnate slots open, and participate in the OMG Omega Super Are You Kidding Me TF. That’s not bad at all, considering the craziness that TF will have to be a summit level TF.
Math-ies out there can quote how that L10 Incarnate population percent goes up a LOT, if we adjust the number up to 96%, let alone 97%.
Ergo, very happy about this Incarnate path. My wife will never see it (3+ years, and her top character is L41), but I might just put my toe in the Well of Furies Omega Very Rare Incarnate before the game folds.
And that’s good news, at least for me. Thanks to the devs for the good news, and to the board people for their reassurance and explanations on the other threads.
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Don't say that while you're looking at me. Yeesh.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
Delicious.
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Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
I do wonder about the GUI that we can use vs Hamidon.
However 6 x 8 is 48. A zone can take 50.
I wonder if this will mean that the Raid leader have to invite players...
or how easy it will be for the RL to see what is needed (gah more detailed management for one player).
I do wonder though, if this means that if there are 48 players then it will be the following?
Raid leader invites or you join the lfg que, etc.. and get a Hive all for yourself.
I do wonder though what will happen if a player goes DC, will that place be empty until the player returns, can a new player be recruited, and if a new player is recruited, will the DC player that comes back be barred from zone?
Guess we will find out soon enough.
I do like though that all things will be recorded, that you have to contribute to the trial. I get the feeling of public quests aka Warhammer online here.
Well at least the system
Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
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What does "Incarnate Tree" mean? |
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser
What is not to understand from even the first post.
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Is "Incarnate Tree" the ten slots Alpha to Omega, of which having one of the low tier boosts slotted counts as having your "seat at the Incarnate table"? Or is this "Tree" the entirety of the system -- all ten slots and every possible boost within each can be attained from shards alone if one puts the solo time into it?
For those of you who just want to soloers to be quiet, of course you read it the way you want. But that isn't the only reasonable way it could be read.
As it stands, for a public marketing message on the main CoH website, it sounds pretty good, and I want to read it that way too. But it is not clear and unambiguous -- it -is- still marketingspeech. Considering the storm there's been over this issue, it is foolish of them to not just post here in these forums and state what it is unambiguously. Unless they can't, because plainly saying so would be a lie.
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Originally Posted by Ardrea
What does "Incarnate Tree" mean?
Is "Incarnate Tree" the ten slots Alpha to Omega, of which having one of the low tier boosts slotted counts as having your "seat at the Incarnate table"? Or is this "Tree" the entirety of the system -- all ten slots and every possible boost within each can be attained from shards alone if one puts the solo time into it? For those of you who just want to soloers to be quiet, of course you read it the way you want. But that isn't the only reasonable way it could be read. As it stands, for a public marketing message on the main CoH website, it sounds pretty good, and I want to read it that way too. But it is not clear and unambiguous -- it -is- still marketingspeech. Considering the storm there's been over this issue, it is foolish of them to not just post here in these forums and state what it is unambiguously. Unless they can't, because plainly saying so would be a lie. |
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Originally Posted by Second Measure
In issue 20, you will be able to craft all abilities from the Incarnate trees that are available via Incarnate Trials using Incarnate Shards and some INF. It will take longer than it will take getting components via the trials, but you will be able collect the shards as you play everything(!) else in the game to offset that. If you mix in the occasional Incarnate Trial you will make more progress.
Note that I am booked solid and will not be at my desk much for the rest of the day, Black Scorpion and Positron may answer a couple questions if I am not available. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Great update! Please do not stop releasing these letters. They're what I've been wanting in terms of dev comunication for years.
About incarnate stuff: This is awesome. I love how it seems to be working out exactly as I was imagining/hoping.
On thing though:
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I hope that if this is the same system used in the Praetorian zone events, there are going to be some tweaks to the system. There are a few problems with masterminds and stuff not getting the rewards they deserve.
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Originally Posted by Second Measure
Rewarding
We also want you to feel rewarded for participation, and want everyone to have an equal chance at getting a reward, whether you are healing or buffing or debuffing or using pointy things to make moving things fall down. We also dont want to heavily reward people who dont contribute to the team effort. So when you help your team, you will get the good stuff. The more you help, the cooler the stuff will be, and/or the faster you will climb the Incarnate Abilities tree. But we also know everyone has a different level of investment, and persistence will pay off in the long run. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Getting that confirmation box would mean the trial is ready to start. You dropping out because you want to finish the mission would put the whole thing on hold again. This could potentionally happen a number of times in a row. Bad idea.
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
ETA: Regarding being yanked out of the mission, a confirmation box asking if you're ready to go or if you want to be put back in the queue works beautifully.
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
ok
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Not to take away from your rant, but didn't Second Measure just go out of his way to say that this wouldn't be the case?|
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
But only for large teams, of course.
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I don't see how solo incarnate content would work. If they made it challenging people would complain it wasn't soloable (cfr Trapdoor)
If they made it so that you're uberawesome plowing through everything (like you seem to want) people would get really bored really fast (first mission of Ramiels arc is neat and fun. For the first 1 or 2 times you do it.) My mildly IOd and Alpha slotted brute is already at that stage for the 'regular' content at difficulties x8 +2 and lower.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Tell this guy he's just a cog in the machine:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/militar...t-giunta_N.htm
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.