Incarnate System: an insult to skilled players
By
AzureSkyCiel,
Posted on: 2010-12-04 02:53 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I'd be interested in how this would be determined myself.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
How would you determine the drops then? Enemies Killed? My emp wouldn't like teaming with you but my blaster and scrapper are in. Buffs given? The opposite! What about the poor tank who holds the agro? Maybe give it based on how often he hits taunt? Now we're just being silly. Random is Random. If someone is leeching, kick them. Most TF's could be done with 7 players, if a little slower, but if they were leeching they wouldn't be missed anyway.
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The LGTF I ran last night with my thugs/poison saw the Crab Spider and Blaster on the team making most of the actual kills.
I know I made more than a few myself, but MMs can't nuke whole groups in a couple of shots. Should they have gotten all the shards?
I probably debuffed more than anyone else on the team. Maybe I should have gotten more of the shard drops because of my 1337 debuffing skilz!
Our controller mostly just held things and used Phantom Army and Phantasm while healing. Maybe she should have walked away with the lion's share.
Starts to sound kind of stupid when you try to break it down like that, doesn't it?
As the glorious BAB once said:
"Crack smoker. The Incarnates are full of win!"
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
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You have won. All discussion is over, man.
Wow.
Ran The Imperious Task Force last night. and failed. 3 people dropped prior to getting to the end, and after three attempts to complete everyone quit but me and a blaster. So I guess I'm an unworthy. On the plus side I did get 7 shards, and was able to slot my alpha with Cardiac.
But let me tell you, between the two of us we cleaned out just about every Cimeroran in the mission. Except for that damn Nictus infused *******.
Good times.
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Honestly, where to begin. Chances are I will get mod-smacked regardless, so I might as well just jump right into it.|
Originally Posted by Fritzy
Incarnate System: an insult to skilled players
...undeserving players and can deny the shards to worthy players.... ...lazy programming... ...weed out those deserving to be Incarnates from those not so worthy... ...Unskilled players just want the rewards without the thoughtful work and those players should not be Incarnates.... ...the laziest, most unskilled players... ...skilled players the challenges and rewards they so richly deserve... |
Without reservation, this is the most elitist pile of dribble I think I have ever read since trying to research the KKK.
I consider myself a skilled player and I am not insulted, don't presume to speak for me. Wait, your ego obviously won't allow me to be a skilled player and still disagree with your entire outlook on the game I bet.
What, exactly, is an undeserving, unskilled lazy player in an MMO?
Do you mean the new player that is learning the ropes? Like you, me and everyone else was at some point in time?
Do you mean the one that stepped away to care of something important like a child and did not pew-pew-pew for a few minutes here and there on the TF?
Do you mean the one that really does not play the game for any other reason than to socialize with friends, that just wants the Incarnate abilities to continue being able to socialize with high level characters of said friends?
Are you perhaps referring to player that got PL'ed and IO'ed faster than you did by friends?
Do you mean the ones that have paid for the game since Day 1, never dropping their subscription, but that only get to play a few times a month (or year) and therefore are newbies every time they play?
Perhaps you are referring to the children that play? Or those ones that play as families spanning three generations who are more interested in laughing and enjoying family gatherings over efficiently defeating foes?
I dunno, maybe you mean the ones that are disabled, in whatever way, and the game as a nice escape from RL for them should not allow them higher rewards because the are not performing to your standards on the TF?
The depth of narcissism to think that any of these player segments does not deserve to enjoy all the content of the game they pay for is really astounding on a point of view like this.
In an MMO, the person who spends the most time playing gets the most rewards as a general rule as these games are time sinks.
As others have point out, the more experienced players will and do get a higher return on time played to gaining shards, because they know where to go and what to do.
Therefore your entire argument at it face value is completely trounced anyway, regardless of the bile.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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Everyone else is taking you seriously, but I'm just going to applaud you for an awesome parody of the kind of ludicrous claptrap that shows up on MMO forums. |
Originally Posted by Fritzy
Incarnate System: an insult to skilled players
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AAAAAA++++++, would LOL again.
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Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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This is funny because when GR was released the OP posted this|
Originally Posted by Fritzy
Incarnate System: an insult to skilled players
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Originally Posted by Fritzy
After 3.5 years of being away,
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If a shard drops, everyone on the team should get one, not just the resident goof-off. Sicne shards cannot be sold or traded, this would hurt other people exactly how...? It would certainly be more incentive to team.| How would you determine the drops then? |
We already have to endure the so-called "random number generator" with everything else: salvage, rare recipies, the works. I'm a little tired of having to endure it one more time, since as I've said several times before, IT SEEMS ANYTHING BUT RANDOM.
What seems to be going on is that the number generator actually picks one person to get the lion's share of incarnate stuff, not only for one mission but for the entire TF. Yeah.... I'm enthused. *flat affect*
That's certainly not what I've experienced. Everyone in my group always has gotten a decent number of shards every tf we've done. Not the same amount o course, but always a decent share. Not a single person was complaining about it even while comparing how many we each got.
Damn.. there needs to be a trailer or a warning to Internet Comedy threads like this.. I would have made popcorn for everyone- You NEED snacks to read Stupid comedy like this....
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
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That's mostly BS. I ran a LGTF last night and everyone got at least 5 shards by the end. Myself and two other people got 7, 8 and 8 respectively. How does that equate to one person getting the lion's share?|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
If a shard drops, everyone on the team should get one, not just the resident goof-off. Sicne shards cannot be sold or traded, this would hurt other people exactly how...? It would certainly be more incentive to team.
We already have to endure the so-called "random number generator" with everything else: salvage, rare recipies, the works. I'm a little tired of having to endure it one more time, since as I've said several times before, IT SEEMS ANYTHING BUT RANDOM. What seems to be going on is that the number generator actually picks one person to get the lion's share of incarnate stuff, not only for one mission but for the entire TF. Yeah.... I'm enthused. *flat affect* |
Also, at least 3 of the drops were multiple shards from the same mob for 2 or 3 people.
To give you some perspective, Blizzard recently posted about random number generators in relation to the Diablo series of games. Even when someone gets 7 or 8 sword drops in a row(and they're playing a Sorceress or some other class who won't use them), the system is actually still fair. It's just luck.
Furthermore, if each drop gave each person a shard, people would run the content even less, since everyone would have their shards that much quicker and be done with high level content that much faster.
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Theres always a few that have to complain about an update and I can understand when they have at least alittle something to complain about but this is just.... well I better just stop now for risk of being banned.
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Originally Posted by Fritzy
Incarnate System: an insult to skilled players
1. Using the RNG (Random Number Generator) to distribute Incarnate Shards puts them in the hands of undeserving players and can deny the shards to worthy players. Randomness should not be used to determine who obtains Incarnate boosts but should be rewarded to those who succesfully demonstrate mastery of their individual skills. Individual players need to have their skills tested before being rewarded with something as important as an Incarnate Shard. Using the same type RNG system as is used to determine the pick of real world lottery and slot machine numbers is an insult to the Incarnate System and the Incarnate characters. Skill, not luck, should determine who becomes an Incarnate. 2. I am concerned about the lazy programming that we seem to be heading towards with the future of the Incarnate System. Indications are that the future holds nothing but Raids involving many players. This means that the programming staff only need to create a couple of new TF's for each Incarnate slot release and throw them out to the user base while letting the RNG determine who gets the good stuff and who doesn't. Skilled players not required. Look at the new content for Incarnates in issue 19. Two new difficult TF's...and that's it. Let the grind begin as these two TF's (and the others that give Incarnate rewards) are farmed over and over again by every type of PUG that can be assembled. Surely, the programming staff and management of this game can do better than that to weed out those deserving to be Incarnates from those not so worthy. 3. The Incarnate System should be totally skill based throughout. There are multiple ways this could be implemented but I will suggest two: a. Create a huge arc wtih Ramiel as the primary contact where the rewards at the end of each mission is a Shard and the reward at the end of the arc is a Component. Each mission would fit with the Incarnate lore and would reveal more as the arc progresses. Missions could be done in teams or individually with equal rewards for a successful (not auto) completion. Arc could be repeated via Ourobouros. b. Create a large, related series of Shard missions that are offered randomly to level 50 players who have opened the Alpha slot. A similar system is already in game offering TIP missions and a Shard Mission system could be derived from that programming. Yes, it would take a lot of work to create quality missions but this game deserves to have that work done so that individual players have a fair chance to demonstrate their skills to the esteemed Incarnates like Statesman and Lord Recluse. 4. RNG based rewards inevitably leads to incessant grinding which, most players will acknowledge, is the bane of any MMO game. Skilled players want content and massive amounts of meaningful content that provides them with a story line they can follow and be rewarded accordingly at the end for their diligence in completing it. Unskilled players just want the rewards without the thoughtful work and those players should not be Incarnates. 5. The Incarnate System could and should be much more individually testing that what it is and seems to be headed for in future releases. As it is now, the laziest, most unskilled players can join a TF PUG and be rewarded richly while more highly skilled players receive far fewer rewards (or none at all). In the lore of comic super heroes, the lesser skilled pretenders fail while the more highly skilled ones succeed. Allowing the RNG to determine who moves forward and who lags behind runs counter to everthing super hero lore is based upon. Summary: Even with the first inteeration of the Incarnate System, the players deserve better and more than what has been done to this point. Allowing the RNG to control the system is an insult to the player base and to the Incarnate characters and lore. Change the thinking soon or risk the system crashing into disuse due its denial of skilled players the challenges and rewards they so richly deserve. |
Since when does PvE take any skill?
Oh dear gawd, this brightened up my day. XD
I wonder if Fritzy's just trolling or he's actually serious about the whole "worthy players" crap. If he's being serious then...I honestly don't know what to say.
If he's trolling...then good job! Fritzy, You gave everyone a good laugh, and we thank you for it!
Edit: Original post screenshot'd cause I'm pretty sure this won't be here on Monday!
Wow.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I think the system would be improved by increasing the number of shards required to do stuff, but correspondingly increasing the drop rate. This would much reduce the probability of playing for an hour solo and making no progress.
I'm not sure if there is any difference in the chance of a shard dropping from a +2 relative to a +0, but if there isn't any, I would adjust that so there is. Many of these TFs can be run at +2, and that would be a nice incentive to do so, and reward a skilled team.
Apart from that, I'm joining the queue for whatever the OP's smoking.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Wow.
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The sheer win of this has caused a programming error in the Epic Cluster of my brain. Attempted reboots have failed. Using secondary means of expression:
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Could you show me on the doll where the bad RNG touched you?
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
If a shard drops, everyone on the team should get one, not just the resident goof-off. Sicne shards cannot be sold or traded, this would hurt other people exactly how...? It would certainly be more incentive to team.
We already have to endure the so-called "random number generator" with everything else: salvage, rare recipies, the works. I'm a little tired of having to endure it one more time, since as I've said several times before, IT SEEMS ANYTHING BUT RANDOM. What seems to be going on is that the number generator actually picks one person to get the lion's share of incarnate stuff, not only for one mission but for the entire TF. Yeah.... I'm enthused. *flat affect* |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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And you would be wrong. FOR BEHOLD!|
Originally Posted by Demobot
I stopped reading here because I knew there wasn't any conceivable way in which your rant could be more unintentionally hilarious.
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Originally Posted by Fritzy
b. Create a large, related series of Shard missions that are offered randomly to level 50 players who have opened the Alpha slot.
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Character index
As I was reading the thread I was visualizing Fritzy running around in-game screaming "YOU ARE UNWORTHY!!!" in a british accent
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Not so. During solo play only, I've Crafted my first Common and have 2 shards towards the uncommon; 2 Gr'ai Matter stored and 500 V-Merits towards whatever they need to be used for in the future. The fact is...I've been Lucky. And reliance on pure, dumb Luck is what I want to see reduced in the Incarnate system.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano
Wow someone is bitter the Random Number God took a disliking to him recently.
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rofl - that is all... 
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
There is a place in every game for RNG to be used. The distribution of TIP missions is a fine example of appropriate use of RNG application. Dumping items as important to the lore as Incarnate Shards into the same distribution category as Common Salvage is not.
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That's truly funny. :-)|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Wow.
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But, I've a point and you know it.
No one, least of all me, posted about how everyone on the team should get an equal amount of Incarnate drops, although that would certain be both very nice and a lot more fair.
What irks me is leeches coming out of a TF with 7-8 shards, more than double everyone else. I don't like it. If you don't like that I don't like it, sorry but we'll have to keep disagreeing.