Incarnate System: an insult to skilled players
By
AzureSkyCiel,
Posted on: 2010-12-04 02:53 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
If you kill more things faster (because you put together a great IO build, or because you know exactly how to play your character to leverage their strengths), then you're going to get more chances for a drop in the same amount of time.
Assuming the system is completely fair (ie. no anti-farming code that lowers the chances for a drop if you kill too many things too fast), that means more skill = greater chance for reward in the same time. Or shorter expected time until the same reward. |
The drops are still random and players can go for long periods of time not getting anything despite maximizing the number of chances they get for drops while another player running the exact same build can get desired drops frequently. Players have conducted their own tests on drop rates and posted their results on numerous occasions and confirmed this is true.
Random drops are random. Deal with it.
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As we keep saying... Irrelevant. You can do everything under the sun to maximise the CHANCE of getting a drop, but you can't do a damn thing to actually assure yourself increased drops because at the end of the day, random chance wins out.
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Originally Posted by Silver Gale
If you kill more things faster (because you put together a great IO build, or because you know exactly how to play your character to leverage their strengths), then you're going to get more chances for a drop in the same amount of time.
Assuming the system is completely fair (ie. no anti-farming code that lowers the chances for a drop if you kill too many things too fast), that means more skill = greater chance for reward in the same time. Or shorter expected time until the same reward. |
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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At least half the playerbase of a certain really popular fantasy themed online game is just like the OP. I'm not kidding. There's a reason I'm not there any more and stay in the City exclusively.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
So, you are more deserving of these rewards than other players because you're more "skilled"?
I have, in all seriousness, never seen such a display of self-entitled, unbridled ARROGANCE in my entire life. If you had said those exact words to me in real life, I would have been fighting the urge to slap you on general principle. I didn't think it was possible for someone to have a sense of self entitlement that huge, complete contempt for "lesser" people, ridiculous levels of elitism, and an attitude that purely selfish combined into one personality. |
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Okay, but there's a difference between "increases the chance of a hit with no guarantee" and "does absolutely nothing". If I play one level 50 for 3 hours every day and another 50 for 1 hour on Saturdays, their chances of getting four shards within a month are not exactly the same.
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
As we keep saying... Irrelevant. You can do everything under the sun to maximise the CHANCE of getting a drop, but you can't do a damn thing to actually assure yourself increased drops because at the end of the day, random chance wins out.
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Character index
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Not entirely true. I have lots of choices of top-tier content that I can get together with a group and run to guarantee me a drop. Not a shard, but a component worth four shards, so that's about the same. |
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
As we keep saying... Irrelevant. You can do everything under the sun to maximise the CHANCE of getting a drop, but you can't do a damn thing to actually assure yourself increased drops because at the end of the day, random chance wins out.
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But random drops are random. I went a day without a single shard, and then got two off the same boss.
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HAX!!! |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
But random drops are random. I went a day without a single shard, and then got two off the same boss.
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But due to the random nature of the random number generator, it is entirely possible that the one you play for an hour on Saturdays will end up with more. |
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
If I play one level 50 for 3 hours every day and another 50 for 1 hour on Saturdays, their chances of getting four shards within a month are not exactly the same.
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The question I have is: Why the bloody hell is everyone so obsessed with getting everything right frigging NOW?
Seriously, play the game and you will get your lewt. If you rush to get all your shinys right now you're going to feel like you're working a video game instead of playing one. They aren't shutting the servers down any time soon, so you have plenty of time to get your stuff.
I mean, is the obsession based in some misguided notion that if you get your stuff sooner than someone else it means you are better than them, or what?
I seriously don't understand the kind of mindset that leads someone to take a video game so seriously that they actually get angry when they can't have their status symbols just because they held their hand out for them. Do their lives suck so much they have to do well in a game to feel good about themselves? Are they just jacktards that like to brag that "I got it first, you suck!"? It seriously baffles me.
If anyone can explain that mindset in a way that makes some kind of sense, please do.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Well said. I have 2 of my 3 50's unlocked. One of them I played a lot to get his common, and then uncommon (took 1 ITF and a MSR for the common) so I could try the new TF's. The other has his common, no rush on the uncommon, but means I can join the TF's with another toon if needed. At some point I'll unlock the last 50, but not rush on filling the slot, just play as per normal. Much more fun. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
But due to the random nature of the random number generator, it is entirely possible that the one you play for an hour on Saturdays will end up with more.
The question I have is: Why the bloody hell is everyone so obsessed with getting everything right frigging NOW? Seriously, play the game and you will get your lewt. If you rush to get all your shinys right now you're going to feel like you're working a video game instead of playing one. They aren't shutting the servers down any time soon, so you have plenty of time to get your stuff. I mean, is the obsession based in some misguided notion that if you get your stuff sooner than someone else it means you are better than them, or what? I seriously don't understand the kind of mindset that leads someone to take a video game so seriously that they actually get angry when they can't have their status symbols just because they held their hand out for them. Do their lives suck so much they have to do well in a game to feel good about themselves? Are they just jacktards that like to brag that "I got it first, you suck!"? It seriously baffles me. If anyone can explain that mindset in a way that makes some kind of sense, please do. |
Im still trying to figure out if Im insulted or not...
On one hand if Im not insulted about the incarnate system then Im not a skilled player...then that means the OP called me unskilled...then Im insulted, now Im right back to being skilled because Im insulted.
Im confused.
--Frog
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Not to mention the obsession now with framming out every single enemy on a TF for shards! You would not believe the sheer amount of confusion players display when I try to explain that running a Task Force Normally, you know, "like you normally would" will actually net better rewards than farming. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I seriously don't understand the kind of mindset that leads someone to take a video game so seriously that they actually get angry when they can't have their status symbols just because they held their hand out for them. Do their lives suck so much they have to do well in a game to feel good about themselves? Are they just jacktards that like to brag that "I got it first, you suck!"? It seriously baffles me.
If anyone can explain that mindset in a way that makes some kind of sense, please do. |
- I try to explain to players that completing a task force or event will net the equivelent of 4 shards, either directly through the Hamidon, or indirectly through specific incarnate salvage.
- I try to explain to players that if the defeats per second is constant, then they will defeat the same number of enemies in each TF, and thus have equal chances to obtain shard drops.
- I try to explain that fighting more archvillains or Hero's net higher chances for shard drops.
I've actually had somebody tell me that the only task forces they run are LGTF and ITF, they won't do anything else so there's no reason for them to run TF's normally, and they were going to Fram Fram Fram.
Seriously, if I wanted to do a Task Force where I defeated everything that moved, I'd go do a Dr. Quarterfield.
There's a REASON "nobody" runs Dr. Quarterfield on a regular basis. It's BORING. Whacking the same enemy over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, isn't fun. Well, not to me. I'm sure there's some frammer out there that would love to argue on that point.
Anyways, I don't understand the O.M.G. I must get incarnate slotted NAO attitude. The next batch of incarnate stuff probably won't be hitting until January at the earliest, so what's the point in rush, rush, rushing the stuff today? Neverminding that the Incarnate TF's, specifically the Director 11 fight, really seem to be balanced against having more Incarnate Buffs than are currently available in game.
I really don't understand the purpose of making an Alpha-slot enhancement, just to make an enhancement. I see no reason to waste resources on making a cardiac boost when I'm looking at the spiritual tree.
So, sorry, can't explain it to you, I don't understand it either.
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The whole anger part is dumb.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Not to mention the obsession now with framming out every single enemy on a TF for shards! You would not believe the sheer amount of confusion players display when I try to explain that running a Task Force Normally, you know, "like you normally would" will actually net better rewards than farming.
I've actually had somebody tell me that the only task forces they run are LGTF and ITF, they won't do anything else so there's no reason for them to run TF's normally, and they were going to Fram Fram Fram. Seriously, if I wanted to do a Task Force where I defeated everything that moved, I'd go do a Dr. Quarterfield. There's a REASON "nobody" runs Dr. Quarterfield on a regular basis. It's BORING. Whacking the same enemy over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, isn't fun. Well, not to me. I'm sure there's some frammer out there that would love to argue on that point. Anyways, I don't understand the O.M.G. I must get incarnate slotted NAO attitude. The next batch of incarnate stuff probably won't be hitting until January at the earliest, so what's the point in rush, rush, rushing the stuff today? Neverminding that the Incarnate TF's, specifically the Director 11 fight, really seem to be balanced against having more Incarnate Buffs than are currently available in game. I really don't understand the purpose of making an Alpha-slot enhancement, just to make an enhancement. I see no reason to waste resources on making a cardiac boost when I'm looking at the spiritual tree. So, sorry, can't explain it to you, I don't understand it either. |
However, wanting more than one Alpha just to have it? Why the heck not? I currently have a Cardiac, a Spiritual and a Nerve on my main Brute, and being able to swap them out depending on situation/mood is quite nice.
Besides, I personally love the new "flatten everything" mindset for TF's. More money, more drops, more chances for shards.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. We all have it to some degree.
Originally Posted by je_saist
Anyways, I don't understand the O.M.G. I must get incarnate slotted NAO attitude. The next batch of incarnate stuff probably won't be hitting until January at the earliest, so what's the point in rush, rush, rushing the stuff today? Neverminding that the Incarnate TF's, specifically the Director 11 fight, really seem to be balanced against having more Incarnate Buffs than are currently available in game.
I really don't understand the purpose of making an Alpha-slot enhancement, just to make an enhancement. I see no reason to waste resources on making a cardiac boost when I'm looking at the spiritual tree.
So, sorry, can't explain it to you, I don't understand it either.
It's the same as getting to level 50. People want to "complete" their characters, and Incarnates makes their already "complete" characters "incomplete". So they wanna fix that by "completing" them ASAP cause the lack of "completion" disturbs the force.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's bad or anything. I do it too, especially when I'm buying IOs for that final build of my character.
Sure, I could wait a couple of weeks to buy that Obliteration set that I need for my level 50 to be "complete" with it. But that's too long!!!! I would pay -anything- to have the Obliteration NOW and be "done" with that character than to have her NOT be "complete" just because of one stupid set.
It's just human nature. xD
Personally though, I don't see Incarnates as a way to "complete" my characters. I see it as a bonus. I have not unlocked it on any of my characters yet, and I have no even respec'd any of my characters with the changes to Inherent Fitness. I'm just taking my sweet time leveling a fresh character to 50, and she'll probably be the one and only character of mine with Incarnate abilities!
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Originally Posted by Frogfather
Im still trying to figure out if Im insulted or not...
On one hand if Im not insulted about the incarnate system then Im not a skilled player...then that means the OP called me unskilled...then Im insulted, now Im right back to being skilled because Im insulted. Im confused. --Frog |
You need to improve your forums skills in order to figure out if you are skilled or not!!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I'm bored.
Originally Posted by Frogfather
Im still trying to figure out if Im insulted or not...
On one hand if Im not insulted about the incarnate system then Im not a skilled player...then that means the OP called me unskilled...then Im insulted, now Im right back to being skilled because Im insulted.
Im confused.
--Frog
Let p denote the event that you are skilled. That makes ~p you being unskilled.
Let q denote the event that you are insulted. That makes ~q you not being insulted.
So, by the original post:
p => q
~q => ~p
We also have, from your post:
~p => q
q => ~p
The issue is that the last statement (q => ~p) is not actually true. Because you being insulted doesn't not HAVE to mean that you're unskilled or skilled. But you being unskilled does mean you will be insulted. Hence,
~q => ~p => q => ~p
is not actually true. However,
~q => ~p => q
is still true, which means ~q => q, which makes no sense, and hence proves that this theorem is flawed. Q.E.D.
Well, I can explain why I wanted to get a boost slotted as soon as possible--I knew from playing with it in beta that it makes my main character more fun to play. It alters his performance in a way that I find pleasing. Thus, getting it sooner means I can have more fun sooner.
Of course, that doesn't mean I got all flustered and angry at any delay in getting it--I was perfectly prepared to work my way to it solo, if need be, and mostly did so in the beta. However, given the rush on TFs, I was happy to take advantage of the available opportunities to get it sooner.
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Assuming the system is completely fair (ie. no anti-farming code that lowers the chances for a drop if you kill too many things too fast), that means more skill = greater chance for reward in the same time. Or shorter expected time until the same reward.
Character index