Discussion: Full Powerset Proliferation Revealed
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2008-03-28 11:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Since NC soft has acquired the sole rights to this game. it's been one blunder after another. And yes I'm mainly a Vil. player but it's clear that Vils are a secondary consideration.
The right thing to do, is Give Vil's ranged Psionic dmg as well. the Corrupter Primary should be Psychic Blast. Electric blast is decent but too slow. give corrs both Elec. Blast for the story. psy. Blast for common/good sense. (if anyone says "doms have psionic assault" they should be slapped it's no where near effective enough to provide counter fire against a blasters/defenders Psychic blast set.Not saying psi assault isn't any good, just saying you don't want to try to use it against a blaster shooting at you in a zone.)
oh well I'm done dealing with the devs and the community i'm just gonna play my toons sit back and laugh.. 
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*points back at post about Night Widows and Fortunas*
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Oh sure, give heroes Thermal heals and Empathy heals - Thermal buffs and Cold Domination buffs. And villains get.... /storm... twice over.
*throws hands up* I give up. Obviously the devs want everyone to play blueside.
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No one I know wanted thermal. Everyone of them wanted a real secondary to be added that didn't just act as a grab bag of other sets already available. Dark, Cold, Traps, would it have killed them to add a controller secondary that someone may have wanted?
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As a reminder of the scope of Powerset Proliferation, it was to port existing powersets, not to create new ones. While some people consider the Blaster Psi secondary to be a new one, it's not - it's pretty much Dom Psi moved over (with balance tweaking).
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please don't tell me you gave blasters psychic shockwave....
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That would be an actual crime. I'm calling the cops now, just in case. 
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
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Um, shouldn't Dominators get an ASSAULT secondary set? Why the Electrical Manipulation?
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Yep. Bug in the display name. Fixed it today.
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Ah, glad to hear that. I'll be interested to see Electrical Assault. I'm sure it's simply a mix of ranged attacks from El. Blast, with the melee attacks in El. Manipulation, but it'll all look good in red.
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did I miss something...
Dominator
New Primary - Earth Control
New Secondary - Electricity Manipulation
Shouldn't that be Electrical Assault? If not you could make a Mez/Mez Dom.
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yes you did.
Castle has already fixed it.
@PlasmaStream
"Big Bada Boom(tm)!"
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Niska: Are you Familiar with the works of Shan Yu?
My personal scorecard on how every AT made out (best to worst):
1. Blasters - Psy Blast! and a brand new Psi manipulation secondary.
2. Controllers - Plant and thermal - two previously villain exclusive sets become hero sets. Makes villains not have empathy even more glaring.
3. Defenders - Cold - which is an awesome set and a previous villain exclusive and ice blast, arguably one of the best single target blasts sets in the game.
4. Scrappers - Fire/Fire should've been a scrapper set to begin with. I think once players settle in with this, some incredible AoE based sets will be developed (Spines/Fire, Fire/Dark, etc.)
5. Corruptors - at least they get Storm. Electric blast is meh, but the secondary pushes them up there.
6. MMs - Storm for MMs. No primary but still a nice surprise given everyone was expecting another shield set like sonic.
7. Dominators - Earth is sort of okay, electric "assault" is sort of okay. Not great, but it will make some concept players happy.
8. Tankers - Dark/Dark - if you're a tank you're somewhat happy having the great resists (at tanker levels) of a dark primary and the mitigation of a dark primary. Still, I think the collective disappointment that it wasn't electric armor is still there.
9. Brutes - Axe/Mace/SR - they get three choices but with power sets that don't have a reputation for being very powerful. Concept players will be happy, but power players will stick with super strength, energy coupled with an an electric, fire or wp secondary. The collective disappointment that it wasn't regenation is huge.
10. Stalkers - not terribly exciting. Electric armor is a decent set, but for a class that lives by damage, electric melee is a disappointment.
Bottom line: Heroes, especially blasters, controllers and defenders made out the best. Villain ATs made out rather poorly.
Thank you, Candlestick. This
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Im pretty sure most of the villains are upset about these things.
A. SR instead of Regen for Brutes.
B. Elec Blast instead of Psi Blast for Corrupters
C. Anything/Anything other than Elec/Elec for Stalkers
D. Earth/Elec instead of Ill/Dark for Dominators
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Is an 'unhappy with which sets were proliferated first' post I can understand.
I don't agree necessarily, but I understand what you would have preferred.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Well, that and Heroes getting pretty much the most potent PvP sets in the game. Heres a challenge for you Lighthouse. Go roll up a 3v3 team of Heroes vs Villians in Arena. Really figure out what is happening in PvP when you bring Psi Blast, and Powerboosted Cold Debuffs and Powerboosted Thermal Debuffs vs Villains.
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Controller and defenders get the same buffs/debuff so teaming is easier for PvP and PvE. Do the same for Corruptors and Masterminds. Give masterminds thermal, sonic, cold, kinetics etc... and give corruptors poison, trick arrow, etc... Its even hard to do a PvP pentad team because trollers can get */Emp with powerboost and a defender get Emp/* with power build up, while Villains get */Thermal corruptor and */Force Field MM. Different AT's with the same powers. Who will win?
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
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did I miss something...
Dominator
New Primary - Earth Control
New Secondary - Electricity Manipulation
Shouldn't that be Electrical Assault? If not you could make a Mez/Mez Dom.
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yes you did.
Castle has already fixed it.
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thanks...wasn't going to read 30+ pages to find the fix
ok just wondering because i didn't scroll thru 11 pages of whine ala villain. whats wrong with SR for brutes has more def then IA, (sure only 1.5% more) and doesn't have holes to fire and Psi damage. IA has 0 psi def or resist and 2.7% fire def with only 33.7% res to fire. As where SR has 33.1% def to all range melee and aoe before the tier 9 def power (which IA lacks). once you drop elude your def jumps to 109.6%. now all the numbers i put in here are based on the scraper SR and tank IA in Mid's V1.3,with all def & res powers having 6 lv 50 IO's. I know nobody uses 6 lv 50 IO's but that shows the max numbers that the powers only stats would be. so look at it this way guys you want to leave a cool looking corpse and laugh off the Psi blaster or Fire scrapper.
(scratch that toggles drop on death so not even a cool looking corpse)
Well even though I knew what the sets were I have to say I'm still disappointed that Scrappers are not getting a punching set. After, what 4 years, of people practically begging for a pure punching set for scrappers the devs finally have a chance to correct this huge oversight in their original design, and they don't.
Even if I like some of the other stuff getting ported this whole thing is 'massive fail'.
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Heroes
Illusion Control
Empathy
Archery
Broadsword
Katana
Ice Melee
Ice Armor
Devices
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Villains
Energy Aura
Ninjutsu
Ninja Blade
Electric Armor
Electric Melee
Traps
Poison
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For the most part Katana = Ninja Blade, Devices is very similar to Traps, Energy Aura was introduced as a villianish counterpart to Ice Armor. Also they needed something to pair up with Energy Melee. Ninjutsu is almost like a Scrapper defense set with some devices powers thrown in.
"Steady as a mountain, attack like fire, still as a wood, swift as the wind.
In heaven and earth I alone am to be revered."
- Motto on the war banner of Takeda Shingen (1521-1573)
Storm Summoning for MMs? Gee... who thought of that.
I love the plant controller though.
I had hoped for some better choices, but oh well... I guess you have to take what you get.
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Well even though I knew what the sets were I have to say I'm still disappointed that Scrappers are not getting a punching set. After, what 4 years, of people practically begging for a pure punching set for scrappers the devs finally have a chance to correct this huge oversight in their original design, and they don't.
Even if I like some of the other stuff getting ported this whole thing is 'massive fail'.
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Which punching set in game would you have given them? Just out of curiousity.
@PlasmaStream
"Big Bada Boom(tm)!"
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Niska: Are you Familiar with the works of Shan Yu?
You know, this thread has quickly reminded me why I stopped posting on the boards entirely outside of the Culture section. I used to see this forum as one of the few really fun places to chat about a game. I think it's been about 3 years since it's been nothing more than a few vocal whiners complaining about every single everything in the entire game and frankly, I think I'll be happier to just curl back up in my hole and go back to sleep.
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Lighthouse, Ex, Castle, well..anyone really with a red name.
What if testing proves a set port didnt work en masse like ice brutes in CoV beta. They obviously made it through your internal testing and QA but in practice it was found they didnt work.
If something is found NOT to work, what is the plan?
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We still have a bit more time in Alpha with Issue 12. Then we have weeks of closed beta followed by more weeks of open beta. There is always time to remove or alter things, as per the plan.
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And I want to add: the removal of Ice from brutes was a knee jerk reaction to a bunch of whinny users that actually were complaining about Ice Armor and Ice Melee sucking with a innovative yet very flawed twist.
Players that actually tested ice armor and ice melee proved that the sets were perfectly capable of generating fury.
Somtimes I think the only reason they removed Ice/ice from brutes was to be able to say "see, we listen and actually make big changes based on feedback!!! Now suck on this uber Energy Aura set, because you all know if it says Energy in the name its uber!"
Heroes get awesomesauce
Villains get a walking pile of poo
Why not illusions..come on...
@MrsAlphaOne
Member of the [url="http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=171543&TabID=1451954"]RIMC[/url]
[url="http://www.freewebs.com/mrsalphaone"]DA![/url]
[color=red]Official Beer Wench of PWNZ[/color] Arc 452196 When Madness Reigns over Reason. Play it and PM me your constructive criticism on what I can tweak before Oct 20th. <3 U all
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Now I can't decide if I should get my hopes up for VEATs and risk disappointment, or set my expectations somewhere in the subbasement and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
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Blessed are they that expect the worst, for they can be pleasantly surprised.
(You think Earth Control is powerful, PVE? Huh. I started one, was really underwhelmed compared to fire, illusion, and plant.)
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Players that actually tested ice armor and ice melee proved that the sets were perfectly capable of generating fury.
[/ QUOTE ]Ughhh now Im upset again. Okay..............Im going home and going to play with my base, drink a beer and be mellow. VEATS FTW!
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
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srsly how can you do that ? The dom psy assualt?
So if I look at it - dart,blast,scream,lance all would be primary blast sets - that means
Mind Probe, subdue, OMG drain psyche, and shockwave - missing 4 so I am betting they get a build up - you would probably move scramble thoughts and or will dom to secondary - so most likely an aim power on the primary too? -- oh man...scary...if on the money.
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Just please wait and try it out in Beta. I've been running around in our playtests as a Psi blaster and well, it's ok. Thanks for keeping things on an even keel.
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Oh I am trying - it's just - drain psyche and psychic shockwave on a dom are - insaaaane..give it to an AT with higher dmg base and possibly higher dmg mulitpliers (if they get an aim and bu in that..) wowsa -
not to throw gas on a fire - just curious - since the highest damaging AT blue side is getting psi dmg..any chance psi resists will be added to sets that are already avail ?
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For the most part Katana = Ninja Blade, Devices is very similar to Traps, Energy Aura was introduced as a villianish counterpart to Ice Armor. Also they needed something to pair up with Energy Melee. Ninjutsu is almost like a Scrapper defense set with some devices powers thrown in.
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Devices and Traps look a tiny bit alike but are not the same set AT ALL.
Energy Aura and Ice Armor have nothing in common other than both sets being defense based and being able to drain endurance.
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You know, this thread has quickly reminded me why I stopped posting on the boards entirely outside of the Culture section. I used to see this forum as one of the few really fun places to chat about a game. I think it's been about 3 years since it's been nothing more than a few vocal whiners complaining about every single everything in the entire game and frankly, I think I'll be happier to just curl back up in my hole and go back to sleep.
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Kind of Ironic that you are whining about whiners eh?
Classic Dungeon Crawl Arc ID: 2232-"A satirical look at your average dungeon"
Down the Rabbit Hole Arc IDs: 24346 24397-"Rescue a little girl from an insidious dream invader."
I'm very pleased with the additions, and I'm eager of course to see more.
However...
"Psychic Blast Blasters... will shake up the PvP game for sure, and the developers will be keeping a VERY close eye on this powerset to make sure that it is not overpowered in the hands of Blasters."
Ahem! Yes, right. We wouldn't want those blasters to have an unfair advantage in PvP.
:: Hugs Intimidate, the only thing between me and constant death by Aim/Buildup. ::
Ok ok ok ok.....
First of all, mental manip.-WHat the heck were the devs thinking?
Lets give blasters psychic blasts, and after that, i think we should give them a matching set, that way they chew on everyone and their brother.
Second, fire scrappers, c'mon guys...where is the Super strength? or Elec?( i understand they dont like to spend more than 15 minutes putting together a set for a different AT, let alone spending 20 MINUTES changing the tint to blue)
Over all, everything but these two sets look good.
Actually scratch that, lets not cross anything hero side between scrappers AND tanks. I drop my head in shame...i really do.
Flux Tempest-Electric Melee/Willpower
Zaunte's Rage-Claws/Invulnerability
Guess I'll post here since rednames don't seem to read the pvp boards (and I guess I can't blame them, especially today.)
First off, I completely understand pvpers basically don't matter to you. I'm not being sarcastic... we make up, to the best of what I can see, maybe 1000 subscriptions.
Out of ~150k, it's obvious that 1k is very very little.
If the pvp community was to all simultaneously cancel their account(s), NCsoft would barely feel it.
That being said, I'd like to say that (again, from what I see) we are OVERWHELMINGLY the most min/maxing of the entire CoX community, and one of the most vocal minorities at showing the devs potential imbalances in powers, sets, and ATs, especially at the higher levels, and end-game content. We study the game, on average, much more than just about any other minor subculture of gamers.
I'd like to think that in a way, most pvpers pull much more than their weight at making the entire game better.
That being said, would it have been too much to ask to actually run a few of these 'proliferation' choices by your playerbase?
With I12, you've singlehandedly widened the gap between hero and villain IMbalance by porting over 2 of the strongest villain sets AND adding a widely unresistible set to the already highest damaging hero AT.
Villains get storm, which is nice indeed, but in no way compensatory for the 3 game-breaking sets heroes just got.
Do you realize that there is NO HvV arena ladder?
Do you understand why?
Do you even openly recognize that the factions are in fact not balanced?
I understand that pve >>>> pvp, financially.
Still... I think you might be underestimating how much we bring to the game, and especially to pve.
I'm assuming these decisions are irreversible for now... so I'd avoid the pvp forums if I were you 
That being said, here's something I *would* recommend for I12.1:
- psi blast for corrs
- access to APPs for villains
- VEATs with CM (by Siren's plz), RAs, Fort, and AP.
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Last time I checked Twilight Grasp/Transfusion heal the same.
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Actually no... Transfusion is targeted and the Area is based off the enemy location. Twilight Grasp is targeted, but the Area is based off of the users location, not the enemy's.
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But the Heal is the same AMOUNT i should have said, not behaviorally, at least I believe so.
Twilight grasp does work when mobs fall, transfusion doesnt....which still makes no sense. Wonder if BAB/Castle could look into that one as a minor issue.
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Twilight Grasp works like that purposely. It's not a bug. It represents the draining of the life force, which is why even the last dying breath can grant a heal.
Transfusion requires a target that is still moving around and kicking. It is a part of Kinetics after all. Kinetics depends on motion. Dark does not.
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Actually, it likely has to do with the fact that transfusion summons a pet entity to do the heal, whereas twilight just does an AoE heal around the caster. City of Data is your friend!