City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Discussion: Full Powerset Proliferation Revealed

13th_Stranger

By 13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2008-03-28 11:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion

 

Posted

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Lighthouse, Ex, Castle, well..anyone really with a red name.

What if testing proves a set port didnt work en masse like ice brutes in CoV beta. They obviously made it through your internal testing and QA but in practice it was found they didnt work.

If something is found NOT to work, what is the plan?

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We still have a bit more time in Alpha with Issue 12. Then we have weeks of closed beta followed by more weeks of open beta. There is always time to remove or alter things, as per the plan.

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Thanks for saying that. Make me feel slightly better.

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Indeed - this is something that all the nay-sayers and a lot of the yay-sayers need to remember: this Issue hasn't even gone into Beta yet. This is a FLUID portion of the game's development. It means there might be significant changes still yet to come, or ones which had not been expected or forseen. If something doesn't work, it can be removed and put in at a later time, or tweaked to fit, or replaced entirely.

This also in no way *limits the devs* to new things to be added, changed, or mixed in. This is not the end of the world, we're not being encased in amber just this way.

Wait it out. If you're among the lucky ones chosen for Beta, do your best to help test this stuff out! But it's not worth crying Doom over, because something specific MIGHT work a particular way. We don't know yet. So chill.

And THANK YOU devs, for doing anything of the sort!

Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed

 

Posted

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Except WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ADJUSTMENTS/BALANCE CHANGES WILL BE MADE TO THE SET.

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No, but we have past precedent in order to base extremely reasonable predictions on.

There are no fundamental differences in power scale for any power shared by Defenders and Corruptors or for Controllers and Corruptors. The only differences are in Scourge/Containment, where appropriate. Based on that, and the assumption that AT modifiers are supposed to absorb the AT distinction, there's no reason to expect any modification to those sets beyond what's needed for Scourge or Containment.

Edit: What the hell is 'Courge'?

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

So okay. Villains.

Illusion? - no.
Archery? - no.
Empathy? - no.
Ice Armour? - no.
Broadsword? - no.

Plus we are given Electric, but it's red.

LOL at Elec/Elec Stalkers, Earth/Elec Doms, and SR Brutes. An even bigger LOL at /Storm MMs. Corrs are the only set that got anything decent.

But that's not all. A signature Villain set, Thermal, goes to Heroes along with Dark/Dark and the onset of Psy Blasters.

I'm trying to think of a worse combination of trades for villain ATs, but I can't. There simply is no worse way this could have gone for us.

Heroes will be in RV buffed with Fortitude AND Forge, CM AND Thaw, both at the same time, WITH Fire/Plasma Shields.

PvP is over for villains (even I can see this and I don't even PvP!).

Villains MUST get at least Empathy and Illusion. It just isn't fair otherwise.

The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!

 

Posted

Personly I'm a little dissapointed that tanks or scrappers didn't get elec melee and elec armor. I was looking forward to rerolling my will/em tank to an elec/elec scrapper or elec/em tank.

ofcourse now i have to decide if I really want to reroll my grav/em dom to a grav/el dom or not.

V-Tronix - Angry Angels
V-Tron Elec/EM - V-Tron X EM/EA

To Build a Better Hero #53098 [Newly edited and looking for Feedback] - Renegade Robots: V-Tron's Task Force # - A Summer Song and A Winters Tail #104106

 

Posted

As an exclusively PvE players i am very glad to see all these new possibilities added to Heroes and Villains. I cant wait to make an Axe brute, a Storm MM, a Fire scrapper, a Cold defender and a Psi blaster!

Thank you devs! Its gonna be fun!

I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Voltaire

 

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heroes get all the good stuff from vill side, villains seem a little short changed

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Could this be because Villains have the better powersets? After proliferation, Heroes have five sets that Villains don't have access to aside from the Blaster Secondaries.

Illusion Control

Empathy

Archery

Broadsword

Katana

After proliferation, Villains have seven sets that Heroes don't have access to aside from the Mastermind Primaries.

Energy Aura

Ninjutsu

Ninja Blade

Electric Armor

Electric Melee

Traps

Poison

While I think Katana is better than Axe or War Mace for Brutes because of the faster animation times, it doesn't fit as well conceptually.

Illusion control would be great for Dominators, but I'm willing to wait on it. The sets we're receiving in Issue 12 gives me hope that Dominators will be getting two completely new Powersets in Issue 13, Electric Control and Earthen Assault.

Is Archery better than Electric Blast? Animation times are about the same, Electric has End Drain, Archery has +Acc, Electric is Energy damage, Archery is Lethal. I think it comes down to taste.

I think the only really good Hero sets that Villains don't have access to are Illusion Control and Empathy. As a pure "buff" set, Empathy is inappropriate for Corrupters, but could be useful for Masterminds. Empathy for Masterminds would need to be tweaked because of Bodyguard. As near as I can tell, Abosrb Pain on a minion + Bodyguard = endless damage loop.

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Nice perspective, Lightfoot.

Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager

If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.

 

Posted

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Heroes
Illusion Control

Empathy

Archery

Broadsword

Katana

Ice Melee
Ice Armor

Devices
---------------------------------------
Villains

Energy Aura

Ninjutsu

Ninja Blade

Electric Armor

Electric Melee

Traps

Poison



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Fixed

Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build

 

Posted

Well I’m fairly happy with what I see so far. However the only one I find really dumb is this:

Tank:

•New Primary - Dark Armor
•New Secondary - Dark Melee


Personally I think Tanks should have gotten Elec/Elec instead of this. But maybe in the future it will be added.

Cannot wait to make a earth dom.

 

Posted

Ooo! Ooo! I want to blame the rednames for something!

Lighthouse, I blame you for the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand!

Ex Libris, I blame you for...lamp!

If I were a dev I'd be tickled pink that so many people are so passionate about my game.

Issue 23: All your base are belong to us?

 

Posted

omg...no electric tank. I'm pretty much deflated! I've been waiting on electric tanks since day one of CoH to make one of my favorite characters up. I thought for sure we'd get them over Dark. Name one mainstream comic tank with dark powers? Where are our Captain Marvels and Thors ? Man I'm just really disapointed by that. Hard to get excited about the others now.

Well I hope someone that really wanted Dark Armor is happy at least .

Classic Dungeon Crawl Arc ID: 2232-"A satirical look at your average dungeon"
Down the Rabbit Hole Arc IDs: 24346 24397-"Rescue a little girl from an insidious dream invader."

 

Posted

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Heroes
Illusion Control

Empathy

Archery

Broadsword

Katana

Ice Melee
Ice Armor

Devices
---------------------------------------
Villains

Energy Aura

Ninjutsu

Ninja Blade

Electric Armor

Electric Melee

Traps

Poison



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Fixed

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Thanks for catching those, Big Soto

Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager

If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.

 

Posted

Any Red name wanna come out and let us know if Elec/Elec tank is going to be added?

 

Posted

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omg...no electric tank. I'm pretty much deflated! I've been waiting on electric tanks since day one of CoH to make one of my favorite characters up. I thought for sure we'd get them over Dark. Name one mainstream comic tank with dark powers? Where are our Captain Marvels and Thors ? Man I'm just really disapointed by that. Hard to get excited about the others now.

Well I hope someone that really wanted Dark Armor is happy at least .

[/ QUOTE ]Honestly though, I think they are coming in follow on power proliferation issues, they just will require some graphic rework. Blue lightning?

Just a guess based on nothing but a dead bug in a small box.

View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com

 

Posted

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heroes get all the good stuff from vill side, villains seem a little short changed

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Could this be because Villains have the better powersets? After proliferation, Heroes have five sets that Villains don't have access to aside from the Blaster Secondaries.

Illusion Control

Empathy

Archery

Broadsword

Katana

After proliferation, Villains have seven sets that Heroes don't have access to aside from the Mastermind Primaries.

Energy Aura

Ninjutsu

Ninja Blade

Electric Armor

Electric Melee

Traps

Poison

While I think Katana is better than Axe or War Mace for Brutes because of the faster animation times, it doesn't fit as well conceptually.

Illusion control would be great for Dominators, but I'm willing to wait on it. The sets we're receiving in Issue 12 gives me hope that Dominators will be getting two completely new Powersets in Issue 13, Electric Control and Earthen Assault.

Is Archery better than Electric Blast? Animation times are about the same, Electric has End Drain, Archery has +Acc, Electric is Energy damage, Archery is Lethal. I think it comes down to taste.

I think the only really good Hero sets that Villains don't have access to are Illusion Control and Empathy. As a pure "buff" set, Empathy is inappropriate for Corrupters, but could be useful for Masterminds. Empathy for Masterminds would need to be tweaked because of Bodyguard. As near as I can tell, Abosrb Pain on a minion + Bodyguard = endless damage loop.

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Nice perspective, Lightfoot.

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Im pretty sure most of the villains are upset about these things.

A. SR instead of Regen for Brutes.
B. Elec Blast instead of Psi Blast for Corrupters
C. Anything/Anything other than Elec/Elec for Stalkers
D. Earth/Elec instead of Ill/Dark for Dominators


Well, that and Heroes getting pretty much the most potent PvP sets in the game. Heres a challenge for you Lighthouse. Go roll up a 3v3 team of Heroes vs Villians in Arena. Really figure out what is happening in PvP when you bring Psi Blast, and Powerboosted Cold Debuffs and Powerboosted Thermal Debuffs vs Villains.

 

Posted

yeah i would have personally liked elec/elec for the tanker set although... you can't have everything.

Of course i'm thrilled that we get psi manip for blasters, ice for defs and something other than sonic for MMS


Thanks devs

 

Posted

Just to add my voice to the 'initial reaction' wave for the devs to read...

Put me down on the 'absolutely thrilled' side! I am *extremely* happy with the ported sets, for the most part! I can't wait to roll myself up a Psi/Psi blaster to go with my current plans to play with a Fire/Cold blaster (obviously the latter being nothing new) and LOVE the fact that I'm going to *finally* get to create the 'evil' version of my very first main (I couldn't have asked for a more perfect 'evil reflection' to my elec/elec blaster than an elec/storm corrupter -- short of you guys actually making elec manip available to corrupters, which absolutely does not make sense what with the latter not being a buff set), and I'm very much looking forward to playing around with an SR brute, something I've wanted to do for quite some time. Heck, I'm even curious about trying out a dark tank. Several of the other ports certainly interest me, but just going after all this new stuff you guys have added to my plate is going to take more time than I actually have!

Thank you very much devs! This is wonderful news, I'm thrilled at the new sets on both sides of the moral compass, and just wanted to shoot you guys a huge thumbs up amid what looks to be an awfully distressing amount of 'this sucks' posting going on!

M.A. Arcs
Intended for high level play: The Primus Trilogy (Arc #s 10931, 283821, 283825), "Freakshow U" (Arc #189073), Purification (Arc #352381, Dev's Choice! )
Intended for low level play: "Learning the Ropes" (Arc #100304), "Cracking Skulls" (Arc #115935), "The Lazarus Project" (Arc #124906)

 

Posted

Why should we be surprised these are the same people that thought Wolf Spiders and Blood Widows was a good idea.. Look We just need to accept that if it's not gonna make the Blaster AT more powerful.. it's NOT making it into the game.

defiance fix: "Blasters have a hard time dealing with mez's when they solo.." Reality is That Defenders and corrupters
have the same trouble but multiplied because they don't kill as fast. Fix of course goes to the blasters. BTW they are SUPPOSED to be boned beyond belief. (kind of the whole purpose of a hold/sleep)So as not to be confused with someone who thought that idea was kool in the slightest.

"Brutes live and die by there fury bar" BS. I've played a ton of brutes. against EVERY Mob type out there. The truth is if I couldn't beat them without fury I couldn't beat them at all. Use a couple of inspirations and fake it. In pvp.. don't take a melee toon thats the golden rule. In Zone pvp, the blasters/Corrupters will kill you WELL beyond melee range (As is right don't get me wrong) and in Arena they'll just bring a toon designed to exploit your power sets weakness. Only fix I see for that problem is that brute/tanks should get a dmg reduction bonus for how far the enemy was from you at time of attack. to make it to where they MUST come closer to get all there dmg. kinda unfair but thats the only fix I could think of. doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Now Fury is EVERY bit like the blasters defiance, and it doesn't work right either (with many builds Vs. many of the mob types by the time your bar fills up your 3/4 dead and have a half empty inspiration tray, and the mob group is dead or your thinking of looking for a way out of the fight.((if the group is dead the next mob is so FAR away you fury bar is gone before you start the next fight))).. was kind of a bad idea to make brutes ("Brutes AREN"T tanks!!" Remember that?) inherent AT power dependent on tanking . not that I have a better idea for it just kinda funny.

Since NC soft has acquired the sole rights to this game. it's been one blunder after another. And yes I'm mainly a Vil. player but it's clear that Vils are a secondary consideration.

The right thing to do, is Give Vil's ranged Psionic dmg as well. the Corrupter Primary should be Psychic Blast. Electric blast is decent but too slow. give corrs both Elec. Blast for the story. psy. Blast for common/good sense. (if anyone says "doms have psionic assault" they should be slapped it's no where near effective enough to provide counter fire against a blasters/defenders Psychic blast set.Not saying psi assault isn't any good, just saying you don't want to try to use it against a blaster shooting at you in a zone.)

the dev's don't like to consider pvp when they do these things. but thats a cop out, yes a COP OUT. pvp is a fact of the game. one that was put in at creation(of city of vils.). One that sold MANY copies of the game for them. A reason many people pay there monthly subscriptions. If Vils are never to have a honest chance tell us now, I'll still play but damn it I'll NOT get my hope up about the future. I'll Stealth through Shiv runs at 4am avoiding the cookie cutter blaster that has 90% of his powerful attack combos at 25.

Far as doms go. Earth control/Electric Assault seriously? ROTFLMAO @ the devs.. just keep it quit trying to do us favors. it's less dangerous that way. Earth is underpowered with Critical Control. (100% dmg with a mez on the target) Doms only get 75% dmg boost every so offten till perma dom. Unless you keep build up in the secondary. But then that would be some what out of character for the AT. (except for fire assaults fiery embrace)

oh well I'm done dealing with the devs and the community i'm just gonna play my toons sit back and laugh..

 

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It's still counter-intuitive though, it's not going to build fury as fast as a resist set.

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Incorrect. It doesn't matter if the attacker hits the brute or not for Fury generation, merely that he attacked the brute.

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That's good to know.

"Steady as a mountain, attack like fire, still as a wood, swift as the wind.
In heaven and earth I alone am to be revered."
- Motto on the war banner of Takeda Shingen (1521-1573)

 

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I must say, it is just as frustrating to us PVPers (and I lead a HUGE group or PVE and PVP players, so I understand both sides here) to listen you the non-PVP players insist it isn't as bad as we thought and to calm down. For all the immature whining and complaining done in these forums, over the past couple years, it has been significantly balanced between PVE and PVP players alike, so I would first suggest to hold those stones, not throw them.

Second, it IS as bad as we are making it out on the PVP side of the fence, especially for villains. And let me see if I can explain it so you don't jump all over me for just making an opinion and not-backing it up. Corruptors are not easy to take down, but manageable. MMs on the other hand, are almost impossible to kill in the hand of a good player and in a great player...forget about it. Adding /Storm in the MM sets completely kills VvV action, period. Three /Storm MMs on a vill team = 0 kills for either side in an entire match. Stalkers are not viable anymore for burst damage and vills can't spike other vills without stalker damage due to the heavy buffs we have. So, this will result in nothing but storm teams running against storm teams and zero kills. Sounds like fun huh? This is the end of the villain ladder on test and massive amounts of farming live, which in turn gives us the next problem.

As you all know, the villain market is VERY tight and VERY expensive comparatively. It is already almost impossible to get the sets you need, especially purple sets. Herein lies the major problem for villain PVErs...and yes, this does affect you more than you think. Get ready for the market to get even MORE constrictive when all these recipes being dumped on the market from endless amounts of farming goes away on all servers. Now, of course you will still have your day by day farmers, PVErs grinding for prestige, etc dumping stuff on the market, but it's not gonna be even close to what you see now. So, this means, goodbye ultra rares in numbers, goodbye rares, increase those LotG prices, those Miracle prices, etc.

For PVE, I find the villain powers to be just fine, lots of good choices there. But giving blue side access to our two BEST powersets and putting them in the hands of players with access to the APPs and unresistable debuffs, etc. is overkill and 100% puts an end to any thought of villains being able to match heroes in zones, raids, or arena. The zones will be dead and many groups will leave the game. Whether you like them or not, PVPers do contribute to your PVE success and enjoyment subtly and somewhat behind the scenes. I think you would at least be compassionate enough about how we feel that the piece of the game a lot of us enjoy the most is getting shafted and even more imbalanced.

gg PVP, PVE here we come, it's all we got left...

-Neo

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tl;dr

I am with holding my "dev-hate" (if any) after I can test these new powersets and get some concrete foundation of just how sucky or over-powered they may be. To whine now with ultimatium, etc is premature and ignorant.

However, fully discussing the options for each powerset sounds like a good idea.

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You tl;dr 4 paragraphs? That is plain laziness bud, especially after I have given you the "shortened" explanation PVE players have been asking for. And if you're directing the "To whine now with ultimatium" comment at me, I suggest you take back the tl:dr, read what I wrote and tell me where I whined about anything or how I was being ignorant? It is very self-explanatory, but to those that don't PVP I thought I could give you some insight from someone who comes from both sides of the fence...

-Neo

[/ QUOTE ]tl;dr

 

Posted

did I miss something...

Dominator

New Primary - Earth Control

New Secondary - Electricity Manipulation


Shouldn't that be Electrical Assault? If not you could make a Mez/Mez Dom.

 

Posted

My only real objection is Electricity primary/secondary without a matching Elec set, so you can make an Elec/Elec character. IMO that is where Elec shines because you can keep bosses drained of END indefinitely. With just one set it isn't near as powerful.

Would have also been nice to give an AT besides Corr/MMs (probably Doms) a set with a heal in it.

----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.

 

Posted

<QR>

I'd already decided that there wasn't anything they could port over to make hero v villain pvp remotely close to balanced - as others have posted in the thread, it's about AT modifiers and resistability and not the powers in general. So "oh well, pvp".

I was surprised that Scrappers got Fire just because of Firey Embrace - I didn't think they'd get the ability to self-buff for +225% damage with their high base and ability to critical. The higher animation times aren't quite such a problem for Scrappers who have several sets that already have animation times which are the same or longer...it's just damage, damage, and more damage. Oh and yes, I do plan on making one.

SR Brutes? Better in PvE than /EA, at the cost of the endurance management. A toss-up for me, but at least there aren't the gaping holes in the positional defense.

Elec/Elec Stalkers? Uh...yeah. Stalkers needed another resistance set, especially one without a self-heal. Electric Melee has one thing going for it - Lightning Rod. Which may still be there, but I'm guessing was removed for AS. I was hoping for Stone Armor, just for the giggles of Granite Armor and Placate.

Defenders getting Cold Domination and Ice Blast mean that I'm likely to delete an Ice/Rad Corruptor and I'm assuredly going to be creating my Dark/Cold Corruptor as a Cold/Dark - the personality of the character didn't fit for villains anyway, but that was the only way I could have Cold Domination.

Storm never really interested me, and I got fed up early with Electric Blast and not being able to get a real single target attack chain. I can only imagine the havoc I could play on a team with either ninja/storm or bots/storm MMs though. I'd probably have to congratulate everyone who kicked me for being a good team leader.

Essentially, the only thing I'm looking forward to villainside now is the VEATs, but I do plan on abandoning and/or deleting several high-level (level 40-50) villains for better-performing hero builds.

The positives I can see coming from this for villains? Well, /Traps and Fire Blast haven't been ported (yet); some people were wanting to make their Mu characters and now can; and if /Elec on Stalkers behaves anything like /Dark, you get to look like a gremlin all the time just by toggling on your armors and Hide!

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