Discussion: Full Powerset Proliferation Revealed
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2008-03-28 11:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Okay, I thought it would be fun to go through all the ATs and come up with a new concept character for each that uses at least one of these new powersets.
Blaster:
PsychFire Energy/Mental Manipulation The same accident that granted him blasts of energy heightened his sense and gave him some slight psychic abilities. (Concept might change when we find out more about that set).
Brute:
Plumbinator Mace/Super Reflexes After cleaning cat hair out of this old ladys tub drain for the 100th time, he decides to take his wrench and go on a rampage.
Controller:
Flora Maestro Plant/Sonic An opera singer who has found that certain notes can make plants do what he wants them to do.
Corrupter:
101100101 Electrical Blast/Radiation A robot designed to work on high radiation environments where humans cant. Unfortunately, it had a malfunction and went crazy.
Defender:
The Snowblower Cold/Ice Cursed by the Circle of Thorns as a small child, he has grown up afraid to touch another person for fear they might freeze to death. After training with the Midnight Squad, he discovered how to use his curse to protect those around him.
Dominator:
Asteroid Lass Earth/Fiery An alien princess who comes from a race that can control geothermal energy and use it to move the ground and throw fire.
Mastermind:
Tommy Terreli Thugs/Storm An old mobster who stole a weather controlling device and decided to make a name for himself.
Scrapper:
Hotfingers Fire/Willpower An inventor who created phosphorus gloves to use in battle.
Stalker:
The Human Eel Elec/Regen He was captured by Arachnos scientists who combined his DNA with that of an electric eel in order to create a new kind of powerful soldier. He managed to break free and now uses his powers to infiltrate Arachnos to take them down.
Tanker:
Black Brawler - Dark/Super Strength A mutant who discovered that he has super strength only when its dark. So he created a device that creates a dark armor around his body so he can use his strength powers in the daylight.
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Guess I'll post here since rednames don't seem to read the pvp boards (and I guess I can't blame them, especially today.)
First off, I completely understand pvpers basically don't matter to you. I'm not being sarcastic... we make up, to the best of what I can see, maybe 1000 subscriptions.
Out of ~150k, it's obvious that 1k is very very little.
If the pvp community was to all simultaneously cancel their account(s), NCsoft would barely feel it.
That being said, I'd like to say that (again, from what I see) we are OVERWHELMINGLY the most min/maxing of the entire CoX community, and one of the most vocal minorities at showing the devs potential imbalances in powers, sets, and ATs, especially at the higher levels, and end-game content. We study the game, on average, much more than just about any other minor subculture of gamers.
I'd like to think that in a way, most pvpers pull much more than their weight at making the entire game better.
That being said, would it have been too much to ask to actually run a few of these 'proliferation' choices by your playerbase?
With I12, you've singlehandedly widened the gap between hero and villain IMbalance by porting over 2 of the strongest villain sets AND adding a widely unresistible set to the already highest damaging hero AT.
Villains get storm, which is nice indeed, but in no way compensatory for the 3 game-breaking sets heroes just got.
Do you realize that there is NO HvV arena ladder?
Do you understand why?
Do you even openly recognize that the factions are in fact not balanced?
I understand that pve >>>> pvp, financially.
Still... I think you might be underestimating how much we bring to the game, and especially to pve.
I'm assuming these decisions are irreversible for now... so I'd avoid the pvp forums if I were you 
That being said, here's something I *would* recommend for I12.1:
- psi blast for corrs
- access to APPs for villains
- VEATs with CM (by Siren's plz), RAs, Fort, and AP.
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You know I've been reading these posts all day, yeah all of them its been a slow day at work, but I have to say this is perhaps one of the best posts regarding the issues I've seen.
But it might help to detail out some numbers, wondering if anyone could put together something comparing the numbers and the potential imbalances of a scrapper with fire shields + ice shields + CM + fort + forge + thaw vs anything villain side. I'm not even going to think about a tank because they are really now impossible.
I'm a casual PVP player, I've only recently gotten into it, but this has me seriously reconsidering ever taking my SS/NRG brute into a PVP zone again. Its a pretty low end build as it is, but stacked rage and fury with some reds and I can hit through almost anything now even fort, but I think any edge I had is now gone.
Great post though, I'm trying to hold off now for some testing before conclusions but it just seems off.
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Well, that and Heroes getting pretty much the most potent PvP sets in the game. Heres a challenge for you Lighthouse. Go roll up a 3v3 team of Heroes vs Villians in Arena. Really figure out what is happening in PvP when you bring Psi Blast, and Powerboosted Cold Debuffs and Powerboosted Thermal Debuffs vs Villains.
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Controller and defenders get the same buffs/debuff so teaming is easier for PvP and PvE. Do the same for Corruptors and Masterminds. Give masterminds thermal, sonic, cold, kinetics etc... and give corruptors poison, trick arrow, etc... Its even hard to do a PvP pentad team because trollers can get */Emp with powerboost and a defender get Emp/* with power build up, while Villains get */Thermal corruptor and */Force Field MM. Different AT's with the same powers. Who will win?
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I agree 100%. give Corruptors and Masterminds the same Buffs/Debuffs sets just like defenders and controllers get the same Buff/Debuff sets.
I'm just glad Defenders can use cold/ and my Brute can have an axe/ now <3333
No complaints. Good work, team ^^
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Heroes
Illusion Control
Empathy
Archery
Broadsword
Katana
Ice Melee
Ice Armor
Devices
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Villains
Energy Aura
Ninjutsu
Ninja Blade
Electric Armor
Electric Melee
Traps
Poison
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Fixed
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Small fix to your fix: The post you quoted the list from specifically noted that Blaster secondaries and Mastermind primaries were not included in the list, so Devices doesn't belong in there. (You could add those sets, I suppose, but it doesn't really make sense, since they don't have parallels on the opposing sides.)
Aside from that, Ice has been explained to be problematic for Brutes, but it could work for Stalkers. I suspect we'll see that eventually. I'm looking forward to seeing the Ice version of Assassin Strike--it should be cool.
The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.
Ok now for the rest. Kin for MM's are you mad! can you imagine a team of 8 mm's with anything/Kin? thats 7X8=56 !! (6pets and the MM) people affected by siphon power and fulcrum shift! now i know you are drooling over that thought but think of this with out what ever miracle the dev's think they'll find to balance that? all you guys would get ia a uber nerfed Kin and you would whine about that so. :P
ok Stalkers What did you guys want? BS? it would be NB with new weapon options, Fire,Ice,Stone,SS. Ok you got me there they would be no different then Electric melee, but THEY WOULD BE NO DIFFERENT THEN Electric melee! ok and the secondary well it matches the primary. Whats the beef there?
ok corrs again what did you want i read the boards not every last post but i didn't see a huge calling for anything out side of Emp for a secondary which i saw as many post against it .
Dommies ok well hell i think you are the only people who got what you asked for. Save you Dark Illusion people but hey just play a MM and use your imagination 
. as far as a match set which is the only logical complaint, but still invalid. what range earth attacks are there??? until they make a earth range attack for assault to burrow from not seeing this happen, I say this because once a earth assault gets made there will be whining of a lack of a earth blast set (you know who you are). so they would need to come out at the same time to keep you happy, which is nigh imposable but they do try.
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Devices (Cloak, Perception, ToHit) > Traps ( Hold, Debuff) - IMO
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I think you would find that you're in the minority with this one. Most people feel exactly the opposite.
I'd love to have Acid Mortar, FFG and Poison Trap on a Defender or Blaster. Devices. . . . Taser has an interesting animation.
My Characters
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Ok now for the rest. Kin for MM's are you mad! can you imagine a team of 8 mm's with anything/Kin? thats 7X8=56 !! (6pets and the MM) people affected by siphon power and fulcrum shift! now i know you are drooling over that thought but think of this with out what ever miracle the dev's think they'll find to balance that? all you guys would get ia a uber nerfed Kin and you would whine about that so. :P
ok Stalkers What did you guys want? BS? it would be NB with new weapon options, Fire,Ice,Stone,SS. Ok you got me there they would be no different then Electric melee, but THEY WOULD BE NO DIFFERENT THEN Electric melee! ok and the secondary well it matches the primary. Whats the beef there?
ok corrs again what did you want i read the boards not every last post but i didn't see a huge calling for anything out side of Emp for a secondary which i saw as many post against it .
Dommies ok well hell i think you are the only people who got what you asked for. Save you Dark Illusion people but hey just play a MM and use your imagination . as far as a match set which is the only logical complaint, but still invalid. what range earth attacks are there??? until they make a earth range attack for assault to burrow from not seeing this happen, I say this because once a earth assault gets made there will be whining of a lack of a earth blast set (you know who you are). so they would need to come out at the same time to keep you happy, which is nigh imposable but they do try.
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Honestly I was actually hoping for a set for MMs that combined grav and kin, maybe give MM's wormhole instead of Fulcrum shift and only the single target siphon power? Or maybe give MMs the singularity instead of fulcrum shift.
There are ways to put /kin on a MM without it being stupid overpowered. As much as I'd love to see it, even if just once, a 8 man MM team with all /kin would be... very broken, broken on the level that a fire/kin is already.
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Devices (Cloak, Perception, ToHit) > Traps ( Hold, Debuff) - IMO
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I think you would find that you're in the minority with this one. Most people feel exactly the opposite.
I'd love to have Acid Mortar, FFG and Poison Trap on a Defender or Blaster. Devices. . . . Taser has an interesting animation.
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This was the only other thing i was hoping for, was traps hero side.(other than elec or SS for scraps)
And lol@ taser's animation, you know my first devices blaster was tech origin, and i thought, wow a taser! And i picked it up, and went over to a mob thinking i was gonna taze the hell outa something, well i thought for 3 clicks in a row i just hit the inherited taser from tech...
Flux Tempest-Electric Melee/Willpower
Zaunte's Rage-Claws/Invulnerability
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... before you go off the deep end, thanks!
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Excuse me?
I'll say this as Discretely as I possibly Can:
You guys are looking like a bunch of Amateurs right now. There were plenty of other Sets way ahead on everyone's wishlists (both PVE and PvP communities) that could have been 'ported' instead that would have made more sense while also involving less Tweaking and bug-fixing.
There's been so many controversial Changes by this team over the years that I fully supported despite so much of the whining from FotM'ers and PL'ers on these boards... The G.D.N, E.D., Controller/Pet nerfs, even "Inventions"(loot). I supported all of those things b/c I knew ahead of time they would make this game more diverse and add more "character" to the metagame.
But this "Brainstorm" being announced today is just plain unprofessional in the choices that were made.
Dev response to this has been extremely underwhelming.
"Play it, you'll see!" seems to be the case here when you've already stated that, with a few exceptions made for stalkers and the porting of psi assault assumedly minus PSW + a new power, the powers are exactly identical to powers we already know with the difference of AT modifiers and access to different alternative powersets (especially epics, heroside). It does not take a super sleuth to determine what psi blast will do on a blaster. It doesn't even take one whit of thought to figure out what super reflexes will accomplish on a brute.
I'm actually happy that Storm made it redside. Corruptors are well-suited for it; it is a troublesome set in general to handle, but I think that will be no different than blueside. My big issue comes with the fact that MMs got it too. I'm a MM player, and have been since I first started, and storm is an incredibly powerful set in a MM's hands. I'm not happy about this because MMs are by and large the only redside AT that hasn't been gimped in some form or fashion. Don't think so? Look at the number of MM players redside, or the price of pet recipes. People don't organize red hami raids on my server anymore because the raids end up as 50% masterminds. MMs didn't need storm, especially when it's a notoriously hard to handle set in PvE. People will be running around with bots/storm blowing everyone and their mom around in PvE. When i12 launches, I will not be rolling a VEAT. Why? I do not want to be teamed with a thousand storm masterminds played by third graders. At least now they play dark miasma, which is pretty hard to mess up. You cannot datamine how idiots will play storm in beta, although I suppose you can datamine how little damage they take when played by an expert.
Brutes got the stick again. Unsurprising? I can't think of a single person who seriously wants to roll Super Reflexes on a brute. Considering EA is a functionally similar set, and most of the people selecting that sort of brawler concept probably already made invul or WP brutes, SR is kind of a worthless pick. Brutes want Ice, but the devs keep hammering on how fury generation is slowed by it, which I don't buy for a minute. No one who actually understands how fury generation works really thinks ice screws with fury. Considering I can max out my fury bar on a stunned LT hitting only brawl and energy punch, I think that excuse is REALLY tired. And right after claiming that Ice screws with fury, you give brutes a set without a taunt aura. After looking at what you guys gave to scrappers (the world!) I think it's time to stop messing with brute players and give them the sets they've been clamoring for - or at least come up with a decent reason why they shouldn't (eg. hibernate is broken).
I'm a paying customer, but if this is how the devs want to look at the game, I'm probably not going to be paying much longer. I already took a break from this game, but if the devs don't want to even look at PvP (or villains in general, especially brutes) at all, I'll give someone else my monthly fee.
On the plus side, at least they fixed Hollows. How many years has it been?
All i will say is....i guess im playin more heroes....powerboosted ouch ouch ouch therm,cold,emp's nasty nasty nasty....Ulti
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Well even though I knew what the sets were I have to say I'm still disappointed that Scrappers are not getting a punching set. After, what 4 years, of people practically begging for a pure punching set for scrappers the devs finally have a chance to correct this huge oversight in their original design, and they don't.
Even if I like some of the other stuff getting ported this whole thing is 'massive fail'.
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Which punching set in game would you have given them? Just out of curiousity.
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EM/ but blue!
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
I'd just like to say that I am VERY HAPPY wil at least 90% of the new sets. And the stuff I'm not happy about isn't on an AT I like.
I love that Tanks get Dark/Dark, that Scrappers get Fire/Fire. I love my dark/fire brute, and I look forward to having the option of making her on hero-side, as well as making my scranker firebird as a straight up scrapper, if I want to.
I love having plant as a controller set, and storm? I'm overjoyed about it being on two ATs that I like alot, v-side. Ice for Defenders? *bounces around*
While I'm unlikely to make a psi/mind blaster, I find it an interesting new set, and might look at it more fully, once its out and has stopped being fotm.
Seriously, I think both sides have gotten fleshed out a bit more, which is nice. And I'm more interested in V-side now, because my favorite power set is there, finally. And people need to stop complaining so much.
I'm sure that other things will be ported as soon as its possible, this is just the first run. I only think that it would have been nice to give MMs a second secondary, since they didn't get a primary.
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Well even though I knew what the sets were I have to say I'm still disappointed that Scrappers are not getting a punching set. After, what 4 years, of people practically begging for a pure punching set for scrappers the devs finally have a chance to correct this huge oversight in their original design, and they don't.
Even if I like some of the other stuff getting ported this whole thing is 'massive fail'.
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I was really hoping for super strength for the scrapper primary. I kept thinking we were going to get that and we got fiery melee. I'm not a fan of fiery melee but I guess we'll see how it goes.
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Why not illusions..come on...
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My guess? The heavily pet-based nature of the set doesn't play well with Domination. More of the control and damage in Illusion comes from pets than in any other set, and that part wouldn't benefit from Domination. On top of that, the pets' actions don't contribute to your Domination bar. Combined with the usual scaling of controls between Controllers and Dominators, an Illusion Domination set would offer relatively poor control combined with some lackluster extra damage.
In other words, it's because a Dom Illusion set would suck without some substantial reworking. We may see that reworked version at some point, but for now, we're getting the low-hanging fruit.
The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.
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That being said, here's something I *would* recommend for I12.1:
- psi blast for corrs
- access to APPs for villains
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Even leaving PvP out of the mix, I'd support these villainside (not my main faction btw, but I certainly play redside).
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- VEATs with CM (by Siren's plz), RAs, Fort, and AP.
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Interesting to see what VEATs bring to the table. I assume AP is adreneline boost? If not, not sure what it it is.
I try to stay away from having specific opinions on PvP buffs, but these powers separated from a 'healing' set would not be thematically inappropriate for villains. Perhaps they could make their way into a 'new' corruptor secondary for I-13 if they're not available to VEATs.
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There are ways to put /kin on a MM without it being stupid overpowered. As much as I'd love to see it, even if just once,
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No reason to drop Fulcrum Shift for a MM. a */kin MM would still lack the control a fire/kin has with aoe holds and immobs that make it so effective.
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a 8 man MM team with all /kin would be... very broken, broken on the level that a fire/kin is already.
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and having that on the same on the red side is bad how?
Poison Pill
How many sets on heroes can get power boosted buff and debuffs?
Heroes
Defender: Empathy, Dark Miasma, Force Field, Kinetics, Radiation, Sonic, Storm, Trick Arrow and Cold (Coming Soon) = 9
Controller: Empathy, Force Field, Kinetics, Radiation, Sonic, Storm, Trick Arrow and Thermals (Coming Soon) =8
Blasters: Energy Manipulation (If you count Vengeance) =1
Villains
Dominators: Energy Assault and Ice Assault (If you count Vengeance) =2
Heroes win = 18-2
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
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Devices (Cloak, Perception, ToHit) > Traps ( Hold, Debuff) - IMO
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I think you would find that you're in the minority with this one. Most people feel exactly the opposite.
I'd love to have Acid Mortar, FFG and Poison Trap on a Defender or Blaster. Devices. . . . Taser has an interesting animation.
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Wait. Devices is better than Traps because it contains two Power Pool options? Neat...
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Dev response to this has been extremely underwhelming.
"Play it, you'll see!"
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Well... wait and play it. Maybe it'll supprise you. Oh you have all your fancy reasons why it won't, but the fact is, you haven't played them yet, your making a guess, and you already have a biased leaning towards thinking the dev's hate red side. I have no intrested in debating the point, take your money and go if your not having fun. I'd recommend at least TRYING the stuff out first, but it's really up to you. When you go, can i have your stuff? Prolly going to need some extra fundage to cover the new alts that will be made. 
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
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Lighthouse, Ex, Castle, well..anyone really with a red name.
What if testing proves a set port didnt work en masse like ice brutes in CoV beta. They obviously made it through your internal testing and QA but in practice it was found they didnt work.
If something is found NOT to work, what is the plan?
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We still have a bit more time in Alpha with Issue 12. Then we have weeks of closed beta followed by more weeks of open beta. There is always time to remove or alter things, as per the plan.
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Let's see, Minions for Epics and now this crap. Do you Devs really dislike Villain side that much? Maybe we should be given a Redside specific representative there at NCSoft. The least ya'll could've done was bought us dinner, maybe even a kiss, before you....
Hey, maybe the Devs really work for Blizzard now and are trying to drive us there!
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Brutes got the stick again. Unsurprising? I can't think of a single person who seriously wants to roll Super Reflexes on a brute. Considering EA is a functionally similar set, and most of the people selecting that sort of brawler concept probably already made invul or WP brutes, SR is kind of a worthless pick. Brutes want Ice, but the devs keep hammering on how fury generation is slowed by it, which I don't buy for a minute. No one who actually understands how fury generation works really thinks ice screws with fury. Considering I can max out my fury bar on a stunned LT hitting only brawl and energy punch, I think that excuse is REALLY tired. And right after claiming that Ice screws with fury, you give brutes a set without a taunt aura. After looking at what you guys gave to scrappers (the world!) I think it's time to stop messing with brute players and give them the sets they've been clamoring for - or at least come up with a decent reason why they shouldn't (eg. hibernate is broken).
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Hi, my name is Matt, and I want to make an /SR Brute.
There you go, now you know one.
I much prefer Defense to Resistance. Since I don't have Tank Hit Points, I'd rather not take as many hits, thank you.
That being said, I wouldn't say no to Ice/Ice for Brutes. Even if it does tweak with Fury, I'd live with it for the concept.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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Heroes
Illusion Control
Empathy
Archery
Broadsword
Katana
Ice Melee
Ice Armor
Devices
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Villains
Energy Aura
Ninjutsu
Ninja Blade
Electric Armor
Electric Melee
Traps
Poison
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For the most part Katana = Ninja Blade, Devices is very similar to Traps, Energy Aura was introduced as a villianish counterpart to Ice Armor. Also they needed something to pair up with Energy Melee. Ninjutsu is almost like a Scrapper defense set with some devices powers thrown in.
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Katana = Ninja Blade
Ice Armor > Energy Aura
Devices (Cloak, Perception, ToHit) > Traps ( Hold, Debuff) - IMO
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build