Discussion: Full Powerset Proliferation Revealed
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2008-03-28 11:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
THIS ISSUE HAS NOT BALANCED THE SIDES. IN FACT, I WOULD SAY THE HEROES NOW ARE MORE OPed THAN VILLS. Prove me wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Prove your right.
Until the issue goes up on test, we have NO CLUE what changes, adjustements, and other things are going to be done to the sets. So until then, nobody has any way to prove how good OR bad the sets will be on the AT's they are being added to.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll go this one further. Prove that a Dev somewhere claimed this Issue would balance PVP or make Villains as powerful as Heroes in PVE. I'll wait.
I'll wait some more.
I'll keep waiting.
Given up yet?
Still looking?!?
I'm going to take a nap, I promise I'll have awoken by the time you find it.
<100 years later> Why didn't you wake me?
That's right, because any Dev post claiming that Issue 13 would balance the sides doesn't exist.
The balance has been off for a long time. Powerset proliferation cannot fix this, no matter which powersets you port over to the opposite side. The imbalance exists because of the way the Archetypes are designed, powers like most of the Blaster Manipulation sets that CANNOT be ported over and the APPs.
The Hero / Villain imbalance can only be fixed by adressing these issues. Powerset Proliferation was not intended to fix any of these issues. The whole point of Powerset Proliferation was to give players more options, not to bring about Heaven on Earth.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
[ QUOTE ]
Kinda disappointed.
Is it really that hard to spread the powersets around? What about Thermal Rad for defenders? And storm for MMs? Don't get me wrong I love this game - and any improvement is improvement...
But guys a few more powers? Pretty pleeeease
[/ QUOTE ]
They are coming. But remember, theres alot of other content in I12, and only so much time and resources. We'll see more "shared" sets, but it's gonna take some time.
[ QUOTE ]
Kinda disappointed.
Is it really that hard to spread the powersets around? What about Thermal Rad for defenders? And storm for MMs? Don't get me wrong I love this game - and any improvement is improvement...
But guys a few more powers? Pretty pleeeease
[/ QUOTE ]
Hit the dev digest for a post from BackAlleyBrawler that says, they ain't done yet.
Why are heroes not allowed to have Electric/Electric, either for scrappers or tanks? Its the only set I'm currently interested in that I am forced to go villain side to play, which means I cant use my 2 man supergroup to play.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was just thinking...
Did it occur to anyone else that the reason Blasters are getting Psi Blast/Psi Manip is because villains are getting it as well.
*Looks at Fortunas/Night Widows*
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point, lol.
[/ QUOTE ]Yah this is why my hopes are still very high on some balance. Cant say though until I get one to lev 50 and run her through her paces. 
They just sound so cool though! They are hands down one of my favorite villain glads.
I better not see any Male Night Widows running around........ 
[/ QUOTE ]
Male Character + Widow Outfit Tailored for a Woman + Widow Buttcape = Hawt 
heroes get all the good stuff from vill side, villains seem a little short changed
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kinda disappointed.
Is it really that hard to spread the powersets around? What about Thermal Rad for defenders? And storm for MMs? Don't get me wrong I love this game - and any improvement is improvement...
But guys a few more powers? Pretty pleeeease
[/ QUOTE ]
They are coming. But remember, theres alot of other content in I12,
[/ QUOTE ]Yah get in line behind base love you!
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
I am at work and the page is blocked by our servers. Can someone copy/paste the powersets for me please? Pretty Please? I'll die for you in PvP if you do!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was just thinking...
Did it occur to anyone else that the reason Blasters are getting Psi Blast/Psi Manip is because villains are getting it as well.
*Looks at Fortunas/Night Widows*
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point, lol.
[/ QUOTE ]Yah this is why my hopes are still very high on some balance. Cant say though until I get one to lev 50 and run her through her paces.
They just sound so cool though! They are hands down one of my favorite villain glads.
I better not see any Male Night Widows running around........
[/ QUOTE ]
Male Character + Widow Outfit Tailored for a Woman + Widow Buttcape = Hawt
[/ QUOTE ]/throwsup in mouth. 
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
[ QUOTE ]
I was just thinking...
Did it occur to anyone else that the reason Blasters are getting Psi Blast/Psi Manip is because villains are getting it as well.
*Looks at Fortunas/Night Widows*
[/ QUOTE ]
The Psi Blasters isnt the issue its the fact that heroes are getting our best heal on the red side as a heal set on the blue side and we dont even get a controller version of Empathy. This is my saddest day playing this game. Defenders are even getting our cold buffs set as a primary so it will be superior to the corruptor set and that doesnt include the Power Build Up they get from the epic powers that will make the ice defense more powerful than power build up fort's defense.
When I was young I was never last to be picked on a sports team and I always felt bad for the kid who got picked last or had to sit out because of the uneven amount. Well today I feel like the last kid left and I am gettin no love from the Devs.
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh sure, give heroes Thermal heals and Empathy heals - Thermal buffs and Cold Domination buffs. And villains get.... /storm... twice over.
*throws hands up* I give up. Obviously the devs want everyone to play blueside.
[/ QUOTE ]
No one I know wanted thermal. Everyone of them wanted a real secondary to be added that didn't just act as a grab bag of other sets already available. Dark, Cold, Traps, would it have killed them to add a controller secondary that someone may have wanted?
[/ QUOTE ]
As a reminder of the scope of Powerset Proliferation, it was to port existing powersets, not to create new ones. While some people consider the Blaster Psi secondary to be a new one, it's not - it's pretty much Dom Psi moved over (with balance tweaking).
EDIT: and it's not as crazy as some are making it out to be. Please wait to see it in beta before you go off the deep end, thanks!
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh sure, give heroes Thermal heals and Empathy heals - Thermal buffs and Cold Domination buffs. And villains get.... /storm... twice over.
*throws hands up* I give up. Obviously the devs want everyone to play blueside.
[/ QUOTE ]
No one I know wanted thermal. Everyone of them wanted a real secondary to be added that didn't just act as a grab bag of other sets already available. Dark, Cold, Traps, would it have killed them to add a controller secondary that someone may have wanted?
[/ QUOTE ]
As a reminder of the scope of Powerset Proliferation, it was to port existing powersets, not to create new ones. While some people consider the Blaster Psi secondary to be a new one, it's not - it's pretty much Dom Psi moved over (with balance tweaking).
[/ QUOTE ]
please don't tell me you gave blasters psychic shockwave....
I should point out that on further inspection, I'm not really mad or whining...
It's just that I've been running this insane-o-tron for the past three months trying to get the devs crazy enough to make Illusion dominators and Kineticist masterminds...
I guess I'm just dissapointed that it hasn't worked... And a little worried about who has actually been hit by the insane-o-tron if it missed... >_>
All that is planned fails. All that is born dies.
All that is built crumbles. This will always be true.
But memories remain, And that is beautiful.
[ QUOTE ]
Well today I feel like the last kid left and I am gettin no love from the Devs.
[/ QUOTE ]/pats on shoulder.......Ill pick ya buddy...... we have a whole dungeon full of last picked kids.
I think we have been going about this the wrong way with the devs. We have to quit yelling and complaining and result to good old fashioned villainous bribery.
Im talking donuts, tacos, beer, dancing monkeys.......know what Im saying? I am sending them hand picked turnips tonight!
View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com
Lighthouse, Ex, Castle, well..anyone really with a red name.
What if testing proves a set port didnt work en masse like ice brutes in CoV beta. They obviously made it through your internal testing and QA but in practice it was found they didnt work.
If something is found NOT to work, what is the plan?
@PlasmaStream
"Big Bada Boom(tm)!"
1295 Badges
http://GuardianForce.Guildportal.com - Virtue
Niska: Are you Familiar with the works of Shan Yu?
I'm still having trouble seeing where villains got screwed here. There wasn't a whole lot else brutes, stalkers, and dominators COULD get, since they have most of the logical picks anyway, tons of people have been wanting Elec/Storm corruptors, and you have to be careful what you give to masterminds.
My main critique would be that the devs wimped out and gave some sort of Electric set to dominators instead of cobbling together a proper Stone Assault set. There's enough powers that could be cherry picked already, it wouldn't have been THAT hard. That, and I'm disappointed that scrappers didn't get Ninjitsu. That was the one thing I was holding out for.
I suspect 90% of all the sturm and drang over powerset proliferation is coming from the vocal minority that is the PvP crowd.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I seem to have forgotten about Defenders. They now get access to Cold Domination and Ice Blast allowing them to put Ice and Glacial shields on their allies, as well as throw Ice Bolts and Freeze Rays. I always said it would be a cold day in Paragon City when Defenders would get access to Cold-based powers, and I guess my prediction came true!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh great, I really didn't want this in. Back before the game first launched, my main was designed to be a Storm/Ice Defender but, alas, I wasn't able to get it at launch. Instead I settled on a Storm/Elec to fit more closely thematically. Now, I have close to four years of playing the toon and can only now make the character originally wanted to. Of course, I wouldn't delete that toon, either renaming or changing the name of this new hero, if I end up rolling them out. I do like the idea of power proliferation but its just that this one combination/addition is practically frustrating for me.
Snowsquall - 32 Storm/Ice Defender
SnowSquall II - 50 Storm/Elec Defender [retired]
Frozen Justice - 50 Ice/Energy Tanker
Obsidian Beetle - 50 Dark/Dark Scrapper
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was just thinking...
Did it occur to anyone else that the reason Blasters are getting Psi Blast/Psi Manip is because villains are getting it as well.
*Looks at Fortunas/Night Widows*
[/ QUOTE ]
The Psi Blasters isnt the issue its the fact that heroes are getting our best heal on the red side as a heal set on the blue side and we dont even get a controller version of Empathy. This is my saddest day playing this game. Defenders are even getting our cold buffs set as a primary so it will be superior to the corruptor set and that doesnt include the Power Build Up they get from the epic powers that will make the ice defense more powerful than power build up fort's defense.
When I was young I was never last to be picked on a sports team and I always felt bad for the kid who got picked last or had to sit out because of the uneven amount. Well today I feel like the last kid left and I am gettin no love from the Devs.
[/ QUOTE ]
To be honest Thermal isn't the best "heal" on City of Villains. That'd be either Twilight Grasp or Transfusion (I'm leaning more towards Twilight Grasp). It was just considered the "Empathy" set of CoV because it represented how a villain should heal.
I have a level 50 Fire/Thermal Corrupter and I can say she's more suited for keeping her team alive by killing everything in sight quickly rather than "healing". And while I don't agree that it should have been ported over (Poison should've gone to the controllers instead) what's done is done really.
With Issue 12, the villains are getting a pair of Epic ATs in ADDITION to the sets mentioned. So while I feel the villains got slightly short-changed in this rounds PP (and there's going to be more of them so be patient) we ARE getting a whole new AT to play with along with new sets.
And frankly that's fine with me because I just looked at the list and said "Awesome nothing I /really/ want to play (mind you Storm control IS very beastly) so I can focus on the VEATs"
srsly how can you do that ? The dom psy assualt?
So if I look at it - dart,blast,scream,lance all would be primary blast sets - that means
Mind Probe, subdue, OMG drain psyche, and shockwave - missing 4 so I am betting they get a build up - you would probably move scramble thoughts and or will dom to secondary - so most likely an aim power on the primary too? -- oh man...scary...if on the money.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I must say, it is just as frustrating to us PVPers (and I lead a HUGE group or PVE and PVP players, so I understand both sides here) to listen you the non-PVP players insist it isn't as bad as we thought and to calm down. For all the immature whining and complaining done in these forums, over the past couple years, it has been significantly balanced between PVE and PVP players alike, so I would first suggest to hold those stones, not throw them.
Second, it IS as bad as we are making it out on the PVP side of the fence, especially for villains. And let me see if I can explain it so you don't jump all over me for just making an opinion and not-backing it up. Corruptors are not easy to take down, but manageable. MMs on the other hand, are almost impossible to kill in the hand of a good player and in a great player...forget about it. Adding /Storm in the MM sets completely kills VvV action, period. Three /Storm MMs on a vill team = 0 kills for either side in an entire match. Stalkers are not viable anymore for burst damage and vills can't spike other vills without stalker damage due to the heavy buffs we have. So, this will result in nothing but storm teams running against storm teams and zero kills. Sounds like fun huh? This is the end of the villain ladder on test and massive amounts of farming live, which in turn gives us the next problem.
As you all know, the villain market is VERY tight and VERY expensive comparatively. It is already almost impossible to get the sets you need, especially purple sets. Herein lies the major problem for villain PVErs...and yes, this does affect you more than you think. Get ready for the market to get even MORE constrictive when all these recipes being dumped on the market from endless amounts of farming goes away on all servers. Now, of course you will still have your day by day farmers, PVErs grinding for prestige, etc dumping stuff on the market, but it's not gonna be even close to what you see now. So, this means, goodbye ultra rares in numbers, goodbye rares, increase those LotG prices, those Miracle prices, etc.
For PVE, I find the villain powers to be just fine, lots of good choices there. But giving blue side access to our two BEST powersets and putting them in the hands of players with access to the APPs and unresistable debuffs, etc. is overkill and 100% puts an end to any thought of villains being able to match heroes in zones, raids, or arena. The zones will be dead and many groups will leave the game. Whether you like them or not, PVPers do contribute to your PVE success and enjoyment subtly and somewhat behind the scenes. I think you would at least be compassionate enough about how we feel that the piece of the game a lot of us enjoy the most is getting shafted and even more imbalanced.
gg PVP, PVE here we come, it's all we got left...
-Neo
[/ QUOTE ]
While I find your post interesting, I'm not sure I can agree that this will kill the entire market villainside. Of course I'm one of those people that will gladly grab a good set if I can get it and make do if I can't have it. I dunno...maybe this makes me an adult or something...probably not though, since I play computer games so much.
In any case, I'm awash with ideas for both new villain and hero toons. I just hope those extra server slots are forthcoming. REALLY need those...
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, this issue has me rolling three Villain Alts and Issue 11 did the same. Much more than the two Hero Alts that I plan for Issue 12.
That being said, I do hope that the Devs have some plans to help the sad state of the Red Side Market.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
[ QUOTE ]
AFAICT, not all villains are calling doom. Just a certain group - the ones that always cry doom. So really, is it to be taken seriously, or is it just another round of Chicken Little?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not everyone who sees issues with the change is calling doom. Not all critisism is doomsaying, and the fact that we're getting something (some of it quite nice) doesn't mean we shouldn't point out reasons that other things are disappointing.
Franky, certain poster's response to critisim regarding the changes is disgusting. It gives rabid new face to 'fanboi'. Are some detractors going overboard? Yes. So are some of those going on about how we should bow and scrape at how wonderful the devs are.
The reality is that, especially in PvP, heroes are very dominant. One of the most consistent villain ATs for PvP is the Corruptor, and part of (not all of) the reason for that is the strength of the Thermal and Cold powersets, which were previously unique to Villains.
Now those powerful powersets have been graciously provided to heroes, who already arguably had the PvP edge. So new, powerful tools which the side with the edge never previously had are now theirs. Villains, in comparison, got very little, if anything of PvP value - certainly nothing I'd spec on par with Cold Domination with Defender AT mods and Power Boost. And certainly nothing that compares to Blasters getting Psi Blast. (I suspect that giving Psi Blast to Corr's instead of Electric Blast would have been vastly more popular.)
Is it the last of powerset crossovers? We've been told no. IMO That's no reason to just zip it and not tell the devs what we think of these options at this time. We aren't being "gifted" with this - there's no gift horse to look at the teeth on. This is content of a sort that the devs are providing to try and keep us happy. If they didn't succeed, it behooves us to let them know.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Just one question.
Is the Corruptor version of Electric Blasts going to be colored red to match the theme of villain electricity?
Last time I checked Twilight Grasp/Transfusion heal the same.
@PlasmaStream
"Big Bada Boom(tm)!"
1295 Badges
http://GuardianForce.Guildportal.com - Virtue
Niska: Are you Familiar with the works of Shan Yu?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunate about the death of villan pvp though.
[/ QUOTE ]
lol villains
lol pvp
Anyway, let's see, checklist for awesomeness... Elec/Storm on Corr's? Check. Cold/Ice on Def's? COLD/ICE ON DEFENDERS? HOORAY (artificial substitute for) LIFE!!!
*Ahem.* What were we talking about again?
Oh, right.
lol villains
lol pvp
Edit: Actually, it's not all good news, I suppose. What I really want, deep in my heart, is an Ice Sword Scrapper. Costume piece, power set, I don't care, I just want it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Although I'm not too fond of the non-DB or non-BS weapon set, THAT would be cool.
EDIT: rotfl, just noticed the unintentional joke I just made.
get it. ice sword, cool.
its funny damnit!
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!