Discussion: Full Powerset Proliferation Revealed
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2008-03-28 11:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Lighthouse, Ex, Castle, well..anyone really with a red name.
What if testing proves a set port didnt work en masse like ice brutes in CoV beta. They obviously made it through your internal testing and QA but in practice it was found they didnt work.
If something is found NOT to work, what is the plan?
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We still have a bit more time in Alpha with Issue 12. Then we have weeks of closed beta followed by more weeks of open beta. There is always time to remove or alter things, as per the plan.
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
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Well today I feel like the last kid left and I am gettin no love from the Devs.
[/ QUOTE ]/pats on shoulder.......Ill pick ya buddy...... we have a whole dungeon full of last picked kids.
I think we have been going about this the wrong way with the devs. We have to quit yelling and complaining and result to good old fashioned villainous bribery.
Im talking donuts, tacos, beer, dancing monkeys.......know what Im saying? I am sending them hand picked turnips tonight! 
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You make a valid point, we are also the villains and we get all the hot chicks.
There has to be some bartering power in that, I mean Ghost Widow got flowing hair AND fingers that move... 
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Oh sure, give heroes Thermal heals and Empathy heals - Thermal buffs and Cold Domination buffs. And villains get.... /storm... twice over.
*throws hands up* I give up. Obviously the devs want everyone to play blueside.
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No one I know wanted thermal. Everyone of them wanted a real secondary to be added that didn't just act as a grab bag of other sets already available. Dark, Cold, Traps, would it have killed them to add a controller secondary that someone may have wanted?
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As a reminder of the scope of Powerset Proliferation, it was to port existing powersets, not to create new ones. While some people consider the Blaster Psi secondary to be a new one, it's not - it's pretty much Dom Psi moved over (with balance tweaking).
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OMG! 
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Last time I checked Twilight Grasp/Transfusion heal the same.
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Actually no... Transfusion is targeted and the Area is based off the enemy location. Twilight Grasp is targeted, but the Area is based off of the users location, not the enemy's.
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srsly how can you do that ? The dom psy assualt?
So if I look at it - dart,blast,scream,lance all would be primary blast sets - that means
Mind Probe, subdue, OMG drain psyche, and shockwave - missing 4 so I am betting they get a build up - you would probably move scramble thoughts and or will dom to secondary - so most likely an aim power on the primary too? -- oh man...scary...if on the money.
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Just please wait and try it out in Beta. I've been running around in our playtests as a Psi blaster and well, it's ok. Thanks for keeping things on an even keel.
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
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Lighthouse, Ex, Castle, well..anyone really with a red name.
What if testing proves a set port didnt work en masse like ice brutes in CoV beta. They obviously made it through your internal testing and QA but in practice it was found they didnt work.
If something is found NOT to work, what is the plan?
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We still have a bit more time in Alpha with Issue 12. Then we have weeks of closed beta followed by more weeks of open beta. There is always time to remove or alter things, as per the plan.
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Thank you Lighthouse, that should quell SOME of the concerns knowing that things will still require as Liquid is begging for, testing before doom calling.
@PlasmaStream
"Big Bada Boom(tm)!"
1295 Badges
http://GuardianForce.Guildportal.com - Virtue
Niska: Are you Familiar with the works of Shan Yu?
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well at least it's obivous that you guys hate the villains now.
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The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
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Last time I checked Twilight Grasp/Transfusion heal the same.
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Actually no... Transfusion is targeted and the Area is based off the enemy location. Twilight Grasp is targeted, but the Area is based off of the users location, not the enemy's.
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Also, in that brief window which we've all seen, if Transfusion goes off after targeted enemy is taken down, nobody gets healed. Twilight Grasp goes off after targeted enemy goes down, still get healed.
Well, I was honestly expecting Energy Melee for scrappers - man, they need it - but still, it seems like a good start to me.
And I'm sure the devs will find a way to balance any PvP issues, if any even exist; either through another patch/issue, or through massive nerf-batting.
Optimism, guys. Seriously, try to be happy about getting new stuff, even if it isn't exactly what you wanted. The devs work hard, you know.
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Last time I checked Twilight Grasp/Transfusion heal the same.
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Actually no... Transfusion is targeted and the Area is based off the enemy location. Twilight Grasp is targeted, but the Area is based off of the users location, not the enemy's.
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But the Heal is the same AMOUNT i should have said, not behaviorally, at least I believe so.
Twilight grasp does work when mobs fall, transfusion doesnt....which still makes no sense. Wonder if BAB/Castle could look into that one as a minor issue.
@PlasmaStream
"Big Bada Boom(tm)!"
1295 Badges
http://GuardianForce.Guildportal.com - Virtue
Niska: Are you Familiar with the works of Shan Yu?
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But the Heal % is the same, at least I believe so.
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TG is actually a teeeny bit higher. Not enough to crow much over, though.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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AFAICT, not all villains are calling doom. Just a certain group - the ones that always cry doom. So really, is it to be taken seriously, or is it just another round of Chicken Little?
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Not everyone who sees issues with the change is calling doom. Not all critisism is doomsaying, and the fact that we're getting something (some if it quite nice) doesn't mean we shouldn't point out reasons that other things are disappointing.
Franky, certain poster's response to critisim regarding the changes is disgusting. It gives rabid new face to 'fanboi'. Are some detractors going overboard? Yes. So are some of those going on about how we should bow and scrape at how wonderful the devs are.
The reality is that, especially in PvP, heroes are very dominant. One of the most consistent villain ATs for PvP is the Corruptor, and part of (not all of) the reason for that is the strength of the Thermal and Cold powersets, which were previously unique to Villains.
Now those powerful powersets have been graciously provided to heroes, who already arguably had the PvP edge. So new, powerful tools which the side with the edge never previously had are now theirs. Villains, in comparison, got very little, if anything of PvP value - certainly nothing I'd spec on par with Cold Domination with Defender AT mods and Power Boost. And certainly nothing that compares to Blasters getting Psi Blast. (I suspect that giving Psi Blast to Corr's instead of Electric Blast would have been vastly more popular.)
Is it the last of powerset crossovers. We've been told no. IMO That's no reason to just zip it and not tell the devs what we think of these options at this time. We aren't being "gifted" with this - there's no gift horse to look at the teeth on. This is content of a sort that the devs are providing to try and keep us happy. If they didn't succeed, it behooves us to let them know.
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See, I am fine with people going "I am dissapointed that we are not getting (Insert set here)". That's completly subjective, and not everyone is going to be excited about the same thing. (Some people don't care for Axe and Mace Brutes. I myself can't wait to get my hands on 'em). What I have a problem with are the people complaining that this is going to completly destroy PVP, is a total slap in the face to villains, completly unbalanced, how they are going to quit becuase the dev's have spit in their face, yada yada yada... Without ANYTHING other then RAMPANT SPECULATION AND GUESSWORK at how the "new" sets will handle, be tweaked, ect.
We have NO HARD FACTS. At *ALL*. We don't even know what powers will and wont be in the sets. (And we know they are not just gonna do straight ports for every set, as some of them HAVE to be adjusted to work with their AT. Like Stalkers) And yet some people are acting like the Dev's just shoved a shiv between their ribs, [censored] their sister, killed their pets, then ripped the tags off of their matress. It's stupid.
Waaa, boo, hiss, etc. The Doom Train is right on time, and there's no more room in the Whining Car.
The developers said they were going to begin by porting over the power sets that required the least redesign: basically, the straight-across ports with no new artwork. Only one new power (!) had to be created for Mental Manipulation, and a few powers had to be copied and pasted in (such as Hide for Stalkers).
And what did we get? Ice and Cold, Thermal and Fire, Earth, Psychic Blast, Storm, Electric Stalkers, melee weapon Brutes with Super Reflexes, and ... well, without exception, we got the powersets that required no new artwork. Even Electric for Corruptors and Dominators had 90% of the work already done, what with Electric Brutes and Mu Guardians.
In other words, all those pie-in-the-sky dreams of Illusion Dominators, Electric Tankers, Earth Assault Dominators, and any other combination that required heavy modification, well, those were just pipe dreams. Maybe later but not this time. This time we got exactly what we were promised.
And another thing. Am I the only one who sees a logical disconnect here?
A: Waah, heroes beat villains in PVP because Empathy is better than Thermal. And it's not fair, boo, Storm is so much better in PVP because Hurricane is totally cheap, devs hate villains.
B: Waah, heroes will beat villains in PVP because now they have Thermal. And it's not fair, boo, all we got was Storm, that's totally cheap, devs hate villains.
Cognitive dissonance? Maybe. Or maybe some people just like feeling like perpetual victims. I swear, to hear the forums tell it, the game has more "slaps in the face" to villains than a Fatty Arbuckle movie. It'll be pies next.
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THIS ISSUE HAS NOT BALANCED THE SIDES. IN FACT, I WOULD SAY THE HEROES NOW ARE MORE OPed THAN VILLS. Prove me wrong.
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Prove your right.
Until the issue goes up on test, we have NO CLUE what changes, adjustements, and other things are going to be done to the sets. So until then, nobody has any way to prove how good OR bad the sets will be on the AT's they are being added to.
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Proof I'm right. NP!
Psy/ Blasters with boost range, and buildup, and power boost.
Anyone that has ever fought a rad/psy before will know what powerbuildup will dom does (immediately drops toggles and ignores ur bf). So, powerboost (perma-able on a blaster) and boost range and buildup on will dom, and then all the other psy powers. So, ok sure, its strong. How will villains counter. We all get the psy mastery shield in our epics! oh wait, no we don't that's heroes. Oh yea, and we couldn't respec into it if we even wanted to, because hey, we can't respec patrons.
So, what is the vill side resistance to a psy/ blaster? thermal shields do nothing, sonic shields do nothing. Defense has always done nothing to a blaster with 1 fort. (ask any /sr or /nin stalker how well defense does against heroes) The only toons that have any type of resistance to /psy is /dark, and /wp. um, yay, that's a joke.
But we vills have psy damage, yea, in our doms. LOL!. the squishiest of squishies. Vs, your defenders and now blasters. Very "even and balanced" right?
resistance sets for a stalker is a joke saying one mastermind pet will keep you out of hide for an entire match. LOL! Electric melee for stalkers, I'm guessing is a joke. High animation times for lower damage than EM/. great.
Brutes getting more lethal/smash is NOT going to make them better at pvp. and also, if /EA brutes are a joke, then what makes /SR any better? besides the fact that you have no heal or +hp at all?
ice/cold corr vs ice/cold defender. Let's see, Defender wins because his slows and debuffs are UNRESISTED, they get Power Boost or hibernate or TK. Vills get yay webnades, which does compliment ice/cold. However, in the long run scourge and webnades does NOT win against unresisted debuffing, power boost or hibernate, and better endurance usage in a high endurance set.
So, villains get storm now. Hero storm vs Vill storm. Stormies are massively heavy on endurance. Heroes can buff endurance with SB + RA + AB. Vills get SB. Heroes also can counter storm with their boost range blaster. Vills get to counter the -range with NOTHING, oh yea, I gotta kiss someone to get in range for a heal. Great.
ele/ blast is a joke as kin/elec is way stronger defender side than v-side so, uhm lol?
So, did I miss any evidence? How in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM can you call this balanced. This has given the heroes the upper hand (again) and the few advantages villains once had are slowly disappearing as well. AGAIN PROVE ME WRONG!
Lighthouse did you forget about your "balance vision" or did you just stop caring? just wondering.. oh yea and gg.
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Lighthouse did you forget about your "balance vision" or did you just stop caring? just wondering.. oh yea and gg.
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Lighthouse isn't responsible for game content. Poor guy.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
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THIS ISSUE HAS NOT BALANCED THE SIDES. IN FACT, I WOULD SAY THE HEROES NOW ARE MORE OPed THAN VILLS. Prove me wrong.
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Prove your right.
Until the issue goes up on test, we have NO CLUE what changes, adjustements, and other things are going to be done to the sets. So until then, nobody has any way to prove how good OR bad the sets will be on the AT's they are being added to.
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Proof I'm right. NP!
Psy/ Blasters with boost range, and buildup, and power boost.
Anyone that has ever fought a rad/psy before will know what powerbuildup will dom does (immediately drops toggles and ignores ur bf). So, powerboost (perma-able on a blaster) and boost range and buildup on will dom, and then all the other psy powers. So, ok sure, its strong. How will villains counter. We all get the psy mastery shield in our epics! oh wait, no we don't that's heroes. Oh yea, and we couldn't respec into it if we even wanted to, because hey, we can't respec patrons.
So, what is the vill side resistance to a psy/ blaster? thermal shields do nothing, sonic shields do nothing. Defense has always done nothing to a blaster with 1 fort. (ask any /sr or /nin stalker how well defense does against heroes) The only toons that have any type of resistance to /psy is /dark, and /wp. um, yay, that's a joke.
But we vills have psy damage, yea, in our doms. LOL!. the squishiest of squishies. Vs, your defenders and now blasters. Very "even and balanced" right?
resistance sets for a stalker is a joke saying one mastermind pet will keep you out of hide for an entire match. LOL! Electric melee for stalkers, I'm guessing is a joke. High animation times for lower damage than EM/. great.
Brutes getting more lethal/smash is NOT going to make them better at pvp. and also, if /EA brutes are a joke, then what makes /SR any better? besides the fact that you have no heal or +hp at all?
ice/cold corr vs ice/cold defender. Let's see, Defender wins because his slows and debuffs are UNRESISTED, they get Power Boost or hibernate or TK. Vills get yay webnades, which does compliment ice/cold. However, in the long run scourge and webnades does NOT win against unresisted debuffing, power boost or hibernate, and better endurance usage in a high endurance set.
So, villains get storm now. Hero storm vs Vill storm. Stormies are massively heavy on endurance. Heroes can buff endurance with SB + RA + AB. Vills get SB. Heroes also can counter storm with their boost range blaster. Vills get to counter the -range with NOTHING, oh yea, I gotta kiss someone to get in range for a heal. Great.
ele/ blast is a joke as kin/elec is way stronger defender side than v-side so, uhm lol?
So, did I miss any evidence? How in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM can you call this balanced. This has given the heroes the upper hand (again) and the few advantages villains once had are slowly disappearing as well. AGAIN PROVE ME WRONG!
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Except WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ADJUSTMENTS/BALANCE CHANGES WILL BE MADE TO THE SET. We don't know if certain powers will be removed/changed. Hell, we don't even know if certain villain powers will be *GIVEN* a way to resist Psi just to help balance things out. Everything right now is PURE SPECULATION, and NOT hard fact.
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heroes get all the good stuff from vill side, villains seem a little short changed
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Could this be because Villains have the better powersets? After proliferation, Heroes have five sets that Villains don't have access to aside from the Blaster Secondaries.
Illusion Control
Empathy
Archery
Broadsword
Katana
After proliferation, Villains have seven sets that Heroes don't have access to aside from the Mastermind Primaries.
Energy Aura
Ninjutsu
Ninja Blade
Electric Armor
Electric Melee
Traps
Poison
While I think Katana is better than Axe or War Mace for Brutes because of the faster animation times, it doesn't fit as well conceptually.
Illusion control would be great for Dominators, but I'm willing to wait on it. The sets we're receiving in Issue 12 gives me hope that Dominators will be getting two completely new Powersets in Issue 13, Electric Control and Earthen Assault.
Is Archery better than Electric Blast? Animation times are about the same, Electric has End Drain, Archery has +Acc, Electric is Energy damage, Archery is Lethal. I think it comes down to taste.
I think the only really good Hero sets that Villains don't have access to are Illusion Control and Empathy. As a pure "buff" set, Empathy is inappropriate for Corrupters, but could be useful for Masterminds. Empathy for Masterminds would need to be tweaked because of Bodyguard. As near as I can tell, Abosrb Pain on a minion + Bodyguard = endless damage loop.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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Last time I checked Twilight Grasp/Transfusion heal the same.
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Actually no... Transfusion is targeted and the Area is based off the enemy location. Twilight Grasp is targeted, but the Area is based off of the users location, not the enemy's.
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But the Heal is the same AMOUNT i should have said, not behaviorally, at least I believe so.
Twilight grasp does work when mobs fall, transfusion doesnt....which still makes no sense. Wonder if BAB/Castle could look into that one as a minor issue.
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Twilight Grasp works like that purposely. It's not a bug. It represents the draining of the life force, which is why even the last dying breath can grant a heal.
Transfusion requires a target that is still moving around and kicking. It is a part of Kinetics after all. Kinetics depends on motion. Dark does not.
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Lighthouse, Ex, Castle, well..anyone really with a red name.
What if testing proves a set port didnt work en masse like ice brutes in CoV beta. They obviously made it through your internal testing and QA but in practice it was found they didnt work.
If something is found NOT to work, what is the plan?
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We still have a bit more time in Alpha with Issue 12. Then we have weeks of closed beta followed by more weeks of open beta. There is always time to remove or alter things, as per the plan.
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Thanks for saying that. Make me feel slightly better.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I am underwhelmed by both offerings, mostly because I wanted to see some improvements to melee. Zero interest in Dark Tanks or Electric Stalkers. I saw a lot of threads about Ice Stalkers and I think that community was clear on what it wanted and it wasn't Electric and there is no Fury oriented reason for that...
Overall congrats to Brutes, Blasters and Defenders. Maybe Dominators because Earth Control + Damage is fairly awesome even if electric isn't that exciting. Feel a little bad for Master Minds, nothing new in primaries and a secondary that Corrupters got too and will use better. Add them to my list next to Stalkers ( as usual )and Tanks who got defecated upon.
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Don't forget this stupid <censored> idiocy of Fire/Fire for scrappers. WHERE THE HELL IS ELEC/ELEC?!
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Don't forget this stupid <censored> idiocy of Fire/Fire for scrappers. WHERE THE HELL IS ELEC/ELEC?!
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The Stalker sneaked in and stole it from the vault when nobody was looking.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Hmmmmm.. Spines/Fire scrapper? Name.. Mr. Hot and Bananna. Ax brute.. yummy.
Bummer I was hoping for dark miasma for controllers and dark blast for dominators. But I look forward to fire scrappers!!
@rewster
"Look out! It's the monk of funk!" - @Hermetic
"With, Keil you just can't fail. >.>" - @Wrax
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The *ONLY* reason I see brutes getting SR is to fight 40+ Longbow, with their Sonic Grenades. It's still counter-intuitive though, it's not going to build fury as fast as a resist set.
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Incorrect. It doesn't matter if the attacker hits the brute or not for Fury generation, merely that he attacked the brute.