Colette_NA

Yes, this occasion justifies my breaking my promise to myself and returning to these boards, after many years.

I will miss City of Heroes, for all its flaws. The game survived even when the juggernaut WoW opened a few months after. It remains the only MMO I have ever played, with the exception of the other two superhero games, which only served to send me back here.

Most of all, I will miss the community, of course.

To the developers, best luck in your future endeavors. Thank you for your hard work.

"Sister Colette Valiant"
Virtue Server

There's an old actors' rule: to understand a character, ask "what does he want?"

A "hero" wants order, decency, a stable and egalitarian status quo. Some use force within limits to get it. Superman, Captain America and yup, the Batman.

"Vigilantes" want the same things, but do not adhere to these limits. These extremists will resort to foul means to accomplish their noble goal. The Punisher, V, Rorschach.

"Rogues" want something selfish and petty and will use ignoble means to achieve it. They can be lovable and charming, or thuggish and dull. Catwoman, Deadpool. They'll work for the villain if he pays well.

Villains...?" Oh, what true villains want is horrifying! What does Phipps want? What does Peter Themari want? What does Recluse want? The answers make normal people gasp and shudder! Joker, Dr. Doom, Darkseid.

That holds true in real life too. Of course we have evil supervillains in real life and I think we can all guess who makes the short list. What they wanted -- words cannot contain the horror.

So to make a memorable villain, a villain you can "respect," find the worst possible answer to the question, "what do you want?" Their answer will lead them to personify a particular kind of evil.

As examples, I created my own "Holy Inquisitor," a vigilante mind-controller who personifies religious bigotry. I also have my own version of the Joker, an axe/dark brute named "Mister Hide" who personifies misogyny. Even most villains want to kill this guy the instant he walks into a room.

The more you think about true villains, the worse they get.

Good going, Castle!

Lemme just chime in to say it's terrific to see Castle seriously addressing PvP issues. Keep the dialogue going!

Excellent.

Between Soldiers of Arachnos, Powerset Diversification and additional slots this update's second only to the day CoV went live.

I'm very pleased with the additions, and I'm eager of course to see more.

However...

"Psychic Blast Blasters... will shake up the PvP game for sure, and the developers will be keeping a VERY close eye on this powerset to make sure that it is not overpowered in the hands of Blasters."

Ahem! Yes, right. We wouldn't want those blasters to have an unfair advantage in PvP.
:: Hugs Intimidate, the only thing between me and constant death by Aim/Buildup. ::

I'm delighted with the Hollows changes. Good work, I'm sure.

But I personally think Dark Astoria, Boomtown and Perez Park are in more dire need. I hope War Witch will put those on her "to-do" list.

The Broadsword/Super Reflexes scrapper (BS/SR) has been available since the debut of City of Heroes and has seen many changes. Yet I’ve found no specific guide for this increasingly popular variety of scrapper. I hope my own effort will serve the new scrapper well.

The hard numbers for both powersets are readily available. This guide is intended for those like me who prefer to play rather than crunch numbers.

The BS/SR suffers from the following disadvantages.

1. Vulnerability to accuracy buffs such as Aim or Devouring Earth crystals.
2. Extremely rapid use of Endurance, especially in the early levels.
3. A lack of self heals and holds.

However, the BS/SR enjoys some amazing advantages.

1. The best possible defenses in the game (Katana/SR and Ninja Blade/SR stalkers meet but do not exceed these defenses.)
2. Potent attacks capable of eliminating most soft targets in seconds.
3. One of the best mez defenses in the game.

BS/SR presents a heavy burden for Endurance, but broadsword’s Parry offers amazing synergy. BS/SR is therefore challenging, entertaining and effective.

Powerset overview.

Broadsword.

Hack: A low recharge, high damage hit from your sword. Not bad, but the recharge makes this attack less attractive than Slash, in my opinion.

Slash: An above-average filler attack with a fast recharge rate. You’re unlikely to go to pool powers for fast recharge strikes because these attacks make your weapon vanish and forces you to draw it again. Regrettable. Slash helps fill this need.

Slice: A cone attack with adequate damage but a higher end cost and recharge rate. Inefficient on a soloist.

Buildup: A standard damage and accuracy buff. Very good to have, though I’d advise taking it later in your career.

Parry: for you, this is the gem of the Broadsword set. For best results, slot it with one accuracy, two damage, three defense. This’s a little counterintuitive. Parry can fit into your attack chain as a filler attack with this damage, and the defensive bonus stacks with itself. Paired with Slash and Brawl it offers an adequate early-level damage chain.

Confront: For most melee sets, these taunt powers are almost universally useless. Broadsword’s no exception.

Whirling Sword: Like Slice, this attack is inefficient for the soloist but the team scrapper may find use for it. If your team’s having trouble hitting targets, try slotting this with accuracies, a recharge and defense debuffs. This’s a creative alternative to taking Tactics.

Disembowel: one of your two heavy hitters. Slow to recharge but it packs a whallop.

Headsplitter: has become almost legendary in its ability to pump out damage. Like Disembowel it takes a while to recharge.

Super Reflexes.

Unlike Broadsword, where you’re free to pick and choose your attacks, you really need to take all of the SR set. Why is this?

Resistance, armor that lets you take punishment is linear. More just means more. Defense, the ability to nimbly dodge incoming attacks, is on a curve. A little defense is like having none at all. But a great deal of defense makes an enormous difference, and those last few points or defense have a disproportionately large value, a case of increasing returns, not decreasing.

I’d rather not go into the math. Seek Arcanaville’s Guide to Defense, with plenty of numbers for those of you who enjoy it.

So not only do you want all the SR powers, you’ll want pool powers too, like Weave, Combat Jumping or Maneuvers. More on those later.

The powers.

Focused Fighting (FF): A superb toggle. Put some reduced endurance on it first, then some defense on it later.

Focused Senses: With FF, this toggle completes your initial defense package. You’ll immediately see the difference. As one scrapper put it, “you either look fabulous or you’re dead.” Slot this early and heavily and let Parry take up the slack.

Agile: first of the SR passives. I advise taking them… later.

Practiced Brawler: a gem of a mez defense. It’s a click power that can always be ready for you with two recharges. It stacks(!) with three. While you don’t have the range of defenses of the new Willpower toggle Indomitable Will, you still have one of the two best possible mez defenses in the game.

Dodge: Second passive. Take it later.

Quickness: A must for the slower-recharging Broadsword set. This power makes a noticable difference.

Lucky: Third passive. These passives also offer a progressive resistance buff as you take damage. Meaning the more you’re hit, the harder it will be to finish you off. One of these passives won’t make that much difference but all three together definitely will. You might take Lucky immediately to help fill the AoE hole you’ve been laboring under for twenty eight levels.

Evasion: Third toggle, and you’ll breathe a sigh of relief when you get it. Up until now AoEs have been your downfall. No longer.

Elude: A “godmode” power that zaps your Defenses and Endurance recovery through the roof, with a “crash” three minutes later. Some like to use this as often as possible (“Perma-lude”) while others prefer it as a panic button.

The Pools

As mentioned, you’ll want those powers that give you still more defense.

Concealment: Stealth is an acceptable toggle, though some unique inventions functionally replace it. The rest are not really useful to you.

Fighting: Weave is a wonderful tool for you, but sadly it forces you to take the less useful Boxing or Kick attacks first. If only they’d assign the “brawl” animations instead!

Fitness: A must, especially on such an End-intensive build.

Flight: Not bad. Range is a manner of defense after all, though you belong in the middle of the fight. And Hover may be slotted for defense. You’re also less vulnerable to Grounding powers such as Web Grenade.

Leadership: I love Maneuvers and Tactics. They do cost a lot of Endurance but they make both you and your entire team hit better. Many teammates with stacking Maneuvers can make your team practically unkillable!

Leaping: Combat Jumping stacking with Hurdle can offer a cheap pseudo travel power. It can also be slotted for defense. Acrobatics is redundant for you and a waste of precious End.

Medicine: Aid Self’s a fine choice as you have no self-heal power. Also the interrupt is less an issue because you’re so hard to hit.

Presence: I found Provoke useful in Player vs. Environment (PvE) because I often found myself acting in a tank’s place. Intimidate in turn proved very useful in the Player vs. Player (PvP) world. It stops the Aim/Buildup combos of the blasters and stalkers very nicely, and you don’t have any other holds.

Speed: Hasten does let you pump out Disembowel and Headsplitter more often… half the time, and is the mainstay of the “permalude” builds. A good option.

Teleport: This allows you to travel even when you’re caught in quicksand or caltrop fields. This is a perfectly acceptable option, though I prefer to pair it with hover.

The Ancillaries:

Body Mastery: is generally taken for End conservation and the accuracy buff. Focused Accuracy also enhances your perception.

Darkness Mastery: an interesting choice as the accuracy debuffs it offers synergise nicely with your defenses. These are slot-greedy though.

Weapon Mastery: an underestimated choice. Caltrops and Web Grenade are lovely tools.

Final notes:

BS/SR offers more excitement than other sets because SR is somewhat less reliable and endurance is an issue. But the damage you offer makes you a force on the battlefield. You’ll need to minimize your disadvantages and capitalize on your strengths. It truly blooms in the thirties and becomes nearly unhittable in the forties.

BS/SR solos well, but also works well in a team. My own build is a “team scrapper” designed to put the lie to the idea that scrappers work best alone. She acts as a tanker in a pinch, guards her more vulnerable colleagues, enhances them with leadership, scouts, rapidly eliminates priority targets such as sappers and keeps the big boss busy while the team mops up the escort. She’s the cavalry unit, ready to rescue a vulnerable comrade or charge a weakened opponent.

Without getting into the specifics of my build and slotting, I use Parry, Headsplitter, Slash and Disembowel as my attack chain. This gives me fine single-target damage, gives me room for all the SR powers plus pools and exemplars down comfortably.

Glad you liked the guide, Medic_Brietz.

We meet again, Bill. You're right, this guide is not comprehensive. It's for the new folks and I wanted to keep it short and easy to read. For most veteran players it's all old news.

'Sides, I leveled a Dark Defender to fifty and I never bothered explaining. Easier to just put Darkest Night on a new target once it recharged.

Large team management is one of the most engaging challenges in the game. Whether you’re with a Pick-up group (PUG) or a seasoned team, these simple words for basic plays make life easier for everyone.

Rally on me: sometimes the team gets separated and scattered. Your team’s most effective attacking as one. With this you ask the team to gather at your position.

Charge: the simplest tactic, your team simply rushes to the enemy at full speed and fights. There are times when this is the best available tactic.

Pull: the art of the pull demands an article in itself. Here's a good one. Say “pull” and everyone should know to get out of sight and wait in ambush for the charging enemy you’re about to provoke. ( 'Port Pull is a logical variation of the Pull, useful for eliminating priority targets via Teleport Foe.)

Either tactic may inadvertantly bring large numbers of the enemy charging at you, so the team must be ready to…

Run: believe it or not, there’s an art to getting out of Dodge City. There are two types of departure: the Fighting Withdrawal and the Rout. You don’t want the rout. That’s when everything’s gone horribly wrong and everyone’s running for their lives. In the fighting withdrawal a member of the team keeps the enemy occupied while his comrades disengage. The tanker is ideal for this. A tank surrogate will do.

(“Tank surrogates” serve in a tank’s place. These are most commonly brutes, scrappers or masterminds. “Squishies” using Personal Force Fields or Desolid can also serve.)

Herd: in herding, the tank or surrogate gathers the enemy group's full attention while the team holds their fire until the tanker’s order. This tactic can be adapted to force-fielders, sonics and desolids.

This tactic is very useful, but it’s also boring and repetitive. The tanker grandstands while placing very heavy constraints upon the team. The Devs themselves have expressed their disapproval of this tactic when used to excess, but there’s no denying its effectiveness.

Doorjam: in a constrained area like sewers or caves, the tank (or tank surrogate) prevents movement through a door (Caltrops and Burn Patches will do) while ranged units blaze away. "This is Sparta!"

My Target: you have identified a dangerous enemy that’s best taken down first. These are commonly sappers, sorcerers, Rikti Mentalists and Void Hunters. It’s best to identify these before engaging. If one turns up unexpectedly in a fight, call out the target’s name. The best qualified person will then rush to eliminate this danger.

Scouting: an invisible teammate will seek out the next group of enemies, identify priority targets and potential dangers. This is a very effective tactic that prevents unpleasant surprises. The less stealthy members must know not to stay at the player’s heels and give away their position. Patience!

Bottom Up vs. Nuke the Boss: when the enemy force consists of a boss and a large number of minions, those minions can often do the most damage. They’re also relatively fragile. Sometimes it’s most effective to eliminate them before tackling the big boss. And sometimes the boss is fragile enough that your best bet’s to slam him first with everything you have. Knowing which approach to use comes only with experience but it’s best if everyone’s on the same plan.

Death From Above: it happens too often… you’re all fighting and some enemy that you didn’t notice pounces on you from above. That’s why you seize the high ground first, so you can rain death from above upon them while the floor protects you.

Much needed guide, CB!

Another reason to pull -- ranged attacks.

Suppose you're at the entrance to a long hallway filled with Nemesis soldiers. These have excellent perception and very potent long range and area-effect powers. They're among the most dangerous foes in the game.

Now you can charge them or blast them and accept the rain of death they'll slam you with, or you can pull.

With your team safely around the corner, you make them come to you, into melee range. Nemesis soldiers are relatively weaker in hand-to-hand combat. This is called, "breaking their line of fire." Very important.

"So, it looks like everyone wants every AT to resist everything, and everyone to do 1 damage per hit so we have these long, epic, "fair" battles. But THEIR favorite AT is the exception; they get to do more damage." -- EmperorSteele

Now Steele, let's not put words in people's mouths, eh?

I don't presume to speak for everyone here. For my part, I want an environment where no particular powersets have such a disproportionate advantage that they and only they are seen in the PvP zones because they've pretty much run everyone else out.

I'm sick to death of fighting Ill/Rad controllers, Rad/Psi defenders, Spines/Regen scrappers, Ice/NRG blasters, NRG/Regen stalkers, Ice/NRG tankers and Fire/Rad corrs. I'd like some variety.

And looking at that list, Energy Melee and Radiation Emission appear most frequently, meaning either the other powersets need to be brought up to their level or they need to be reduced, or some combination of the two.

Honestly, I see some simple, easy changes would make PvP fun again. Not perfect, but fun.

For shame? I'm done here.

"Please consider this thread locked and thank you all." -- Colette, April 15th, 2007. (Page 11.)

"...just because you aren't skilled enough to beat or avoid [certain powersets] doesn't make them overpowered." WowZa

Some people simply cannot debate without resorting to the ad hominem fallacy.

Power-gaming, game-breaking, unsportsmanlike players all gravitating to the same powersets make them overpowered. The facts are past dispute. My personal skills are not relevant to the question.

Whoa... necrothread! Thought someone locked this ages ago.

I posted this back in February, folks. The devs let me know they were paying attention. I'm obviously still here, mission accomplished, the end.

For my part, with IOs and the passing of eight months I've given up on CoH PvP entirely. You all have worthwhile things to say but I'm not sure why you're saying 'em here. Feel free, I guess.

I eagerly await the Marvel game as it will hopefully not mirror the inherent weaknesses of CoH. This is their chance to start fresh, with years of experience behind them. That's another way to execute "iterative game design."

Hey E.G.,

"I remember a certain poster wondering why the EvilGeko gave up on there ever being PvP balance!"

That was before Inventions, my scaly friend.

...oh wait! I do.

Buff: War Mace, Ice Melee, Dominators, Martial Arts, Claws, PPPs.
Nerf: Energy Melee, Rad Emission, Teleport Foe, Assassin Strike, Fear, Focused Accuracy.

That's a start.

Some months ago I started similar threads, hoping the Devs would give PvP some much-needed fine-tuning and rebalancing. In fact I went out on a limb to ensure they were listening.

Sadly, they gave us the Invention system. Inventions are mind-bogglingly complex; set bonuses don't seem to follow any coherent system. But from what I've seen, IOs made the balance problems worse.

An example. Before IOs Blasters, or more correctly "blappers", were too powerful while Dominators lagged behind. So everyone who wanted to enjoy PvP made Fire/EM blappers and nobody built Dominators.

With IOs came the Impervious Skin and Aegis status resistance enhancements, which grant substantial mez defense to both ATs. Both now have one of their main weaknesses covered but blasters come out well ahead of the deal, because the dominators' main strength has been effectively "nerfed". As Sean Connery once said, "our situation has not improved."

These imbalances in turn affect the quality of the PvP players. We sporting types who enjoy fair competition find ourselves outnumbered by unsporting, exploitative players who love cheap victories. Such players actively seek to drive everyone away from PvP to feed their egos, but leave immediately if ever faced with serious resistance.

Given the Devs' inability or unwillingness to balance PvP over the past two years, and with IOs aggrevating the problems and making them more complex, I've given up in despair and returned halfheartedly to the PvE game. I'm reduced to hoping MUO will serve as a CoH Mark II.

...which is sad 'cause Civil War made me want nothing to do with Marvel or their characters ever, ever again.

Wish I had something more positive to offer.

Bwaaahh!!!

:: Runs anound in circles screaming! ::

ThankyouShiathankyouthankyouEEEEEEEE!!!

Excellent contribution, Majik. I don't have experience with controllers, but it makes sense that like an MM, a pet-heavy controller (Illusion, Fire) would find Team Teleport useful.

Enthusiastically yes... in theory.

As it currently exists, neglected, unbalanced, with foregone conclusions, absolutely no.

Mentalmaiden, nobody has "called out" the devs or "asked for special privilege." I've made that clear as the summer sun. Please stop trying to cause trouble.

Castle is now posting on the PvP threads. I am delighted with this whether I've contributed to it or no. I've obviously reactivated my account. Please consider this thread locked and thank you all.

"DON'T CALL OUT DEVS. ITS A DAMN RULE. "

Please mind your language, Kitan.

I'm not "calling out" anyone. I want to know if the Devs will answer what I consider a sound and pertinent question. I will admit their silence is shaking my confidence in them.

Interestingly this thread was just moved out of PvP General and into the Developers' Corner. So at least -somebody- has seen it. Strange, though. What're they doing?

Well, the devs never answered, satisfying me that they no longer really care about the PvP game or in catering to their customers. They’ve moved on to creating an elaborate “loot” system without fixing obvious bugs in their arenas and sundry balance issues. We can only hope they’ll learn and improve with their Marvel game. I’ll come back to give that a try.

I suppose what remains is to briefly discuss what the team did right and wrong.

The greatest thing the devs accomplished is to design a game that teaches teamwork. A tanker, blaster, defender or controller can only progress very slowly alone. Together they are a force to be reckoned with, each fulfilling a vital role in keeping the others alive. Even the scrapper, good at working alone, can have an exciting role in the team. On the villain side they were less successful. Stalkers and dominators combine in exciting ways, corruptors combine with everyone. But the Mastermind adds so much clutter that many teams refuse to work with them, forcing brutes to “tank.” Still, the archetype system and the resulting teamwork is the crown jewel of their game design success. This design made CoH a valuable experience.

In the PvP game, teamwork is also essential due to the power of the stalker. Even a scrapper cannot do well against a pair of stalkers, and individual controllers or defenders are as victims walking alone in a horror movie. Only together can they hope to survive this horrific threat. I for one enjoyed fighting these villains and only wish the other villain classes offered such a challenge.

The devs designed an immersive, elaborate city (and island chain) with an interesting storyline.

As to what they failed to do, it falls under two categories: immersion and game design.

The game reminds its players that it –is- a game all too often, and violates rules both of the superhero genre and of reality. We are asked to believe that we’re heroes arresting criminals, and we’re allowed to do so with – battleaxes!? Surely many powersets are more appropriate to villains than to heroes.

The PvE game depends entirely too much upon taking advantage of the AI’s stupidities. One may stand in plain view of an enemy for as long as you please and they don’t “see” you until someone enters their pre-programmed radius or attacks. One of their own can run past –on fire!- and they will not notice. Fine for Vahzilok zombies but not for the hyper-elite Malta. Patrols were a step in the right direction.

Tankers as a class are immersion-breaking. The Gauntlet power added to them works for me, but this “taunting” mechanism is a relic from older, cruder MMOs. Neither Captain Marvel nor The Thing send out mind-control rays that make people attack them. Indeed the "taunters" are... Spider-Man and Robin?!

“Conning” is a relic. Does it make sense that past a certain level the enemies simply ignore you? They should always either attack or flee.

Many, many powers are broken and little used: Maneuvers, Group Flight, scrapper and pool taunts, Jump Kick, the redraw factor in pool melee attacks, War Mace, the entire Dominator AT. Other powers outclass their competing options: Energy Melee, Regeneration, Radiation Emission. The devs have fixed some problems such as Super Reflexes and Fire Manipulation but their progress has been glacially slow.

Sadly, the heroes outperform the villains in PvP. Brute “rage” is broken. Dominators are defenseless. Corruptors lack the power of the APP. Masterminds spend two minutes resummoning for three seconds in combat.

..which brings me back to the problem I brought up at the start of this thread, the developers’ failure to engage in “Iterative Game Design.” They have not adapted the game rapidly and decisively in response to game performance and player feedback.

And now it seems they cannot be bothered even to respond to the question. I’d give this “invention system” a chance if they’d replied. You win the wager, Kitten.

It’s been fun.

"You know that there is no anti blaster build?" -- Psy_crow

I have one. I gave my scrapper Intimidate. Ninety percent of the blappers crumble if you take their precious Aim-Buildup-superspeed-Total-Focus-gank away from them.