I have one question regarding the whole group has to be out of the LoS.
If a tank uses taunt to pull, does the team really need to be behind cover, as the mobs that get aggroed with taunt only go after the tank, I use this tactic all the time to pull a few off a mob before charging in, the team stands around some start blasting but since the mobs were taunted they continue to follow to me. The important part though is that I have to break the LoS. I find it makes it easier then getting 7 people to listen long enough without charing.
If the whole group isn't out of LOS, then the un-aggroed foes (Taunt only hits five) will stop in place, bust out their ranged attacks, and go after anyone they see. Also, Stealth breaks the moment anyone in the group attacks, so even if someone's using a Stealth power, it's shot the minute Taunt is triggered.
This results in the spawn scattered all over the pull-path, rather than neatly packed together for AOEy goodness.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
Some other useful things to know about pulling.
As crazy as it may sound, but mobs do have facing awareness. Quite literally, mobs with their backs turned to you, allow you to get much closer before detection, than when they see you.
What does this have with pulling?
Dont shoot a wanderer when a LT or Boss is staring at him. Honest.
Additionally, its not the attack that sets off the alarm. What happens is that it appears that an "alarm" is generated, at roughly time of impact. LTs have a bigger call than minions, and bosses have the biggest. So when you attack a minion that is close to another minion he will give an alarm, which the other minion may pick up. The alarm pickup distance depends upon facing. If the guy that gives the alarm sends out his distress call, the people that are facing him are more likely to pick it up from further away than the ones who arent.
Short story, pull the guys who wander far away from other minions.
(Interestingly enough, zombies seem to have a reduced distance as it is very easy to yank (or you can pull one zombie away from another when they are much closer together than normal minions)).
Seems obvious, but honestly, it took me a while to figure that out -- I didnt think that kind of detail was in the game.
I dont know the honest to god mechanics of it, I just know it seems to work like that.
Yeah, I forgot that.
With Stealth, you can sneak up behind a foe and /em batsmash him to your heart's content. He won't notice. If you're in front, though, he'll see you and attack.
Regarding 'the call', that's why I suggested attacking a wandering Minion if you're trying to single-pull, but if you want the whole group, dopeslap the Boss instead.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
Sorry about that. My intention was only to add detail to your point, I should have been more specific.
okay but say no one is close to the mob stealthed ( didn't know that though, that is a nice handy tip)
and when I taunt I only manage to say get the 5 mobs. Even without the rest of the team hidden, and blasting to the hearts content, those 5 ar ecoming right for around the corner correct?
That would depend on how long the Taunt Duration is and whether or not the amount of damage being done out-aggroes the taunt. Granted, that takes quite a bit of damage.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
Don't forget toggle debuff's particualry the ones that reduce Accuracy are wonderful for pulling groups as long as you rember to high-tail it arround a corner and make sure your pals don't interrupt till the foes crunch in unless theyre a sturdy AT using taunt or voke and also continue the 'yank aound the corner technique. Dangerous for the squishy doing it but not too bad if covered by heals or buffed or excellent agro tranferance round the corner in question. I find Darkest Night to be the very safest followed by Rad's RI and then the rest... I've sometimes seen snowstorm make them freak out too much and run to other mobs though... plus it mayhap slows em too much for your own good. Still it will at least bring one whole mob to your hidden possition. Breaking LOS is essential. and though not everyone must be behind something, they absolutely must not disturb anything till the mobs are where you want them, since I'm pretty sure even brawl will move the agro to you off the toggler, at least for the mob in question. Still preferable they get behind stuff too.
Little matches DN for this method though for pure safety. In one single toggle your cutting the To-hit chance and the damage by 20ish % to full -25% depending on AT. Be wary though. Even with the best of intentions any togglebot can and may go running the wrong way. Particualry Telleporting ones or sniper class ones. It's a mostly reliable technique though.
Take care,
Heather (AKA rogue Demonhunter and Avid toggle puller, artiste... well its handy in the low levels and solo anyway. 
)
It went without saying but attacks with less rooting work well 
I may be wrong about this, but it's been my experience that the amount of damage had an impact on the alarm. My snipe will sometimes get a whole group, even when I hit a guy that's a fair distance away from his friends, while I've been able to use Charged Bolt get a guy that was nearly hugging something else.
But to be fair... I used to be really good at pulling, but I haven't had opportunity to exercise that skill lately. So, I could be completely wrong about the damage thing.
No, Darrien, you're right. A minion that is hit with a lower-damage power will not set off an alarm. It will only pull him, but if you snipe the same minion and kill him, you can very likely pull the entire group. Now, lieutenants I believe will pull the entire mob (like bosses do), but that one I'm not entirely sure about. In a large group with a boss, the lieutenant might only bring a few buddies...
Anyone know for sure about that one?
@CrimsonOriole
Leo, in my experience, the harder you hit the more likely you are to end up with a big pull rather than an individual. And, as already noted, lts and bosses are more likely to bring their friends than minions.
However it is not a black & white issue. Hitting a minion with a low or no damage attack (Siphon Power) is better for pulling a single enemy but it is not absolutely fool proof. Proximity, facing, etc all play a role. But as CB said, Infrigidate and its ilk are the best bets for single-pulls.
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I was just wondering if trying to pull a Lieutenant--in the midst of a loose grouping--would pull 3 or 4 minions or if it would end up pulling the entire group. I had never actually tested strategies for pulling in-game, I just typically went with predatory instinct (i.e. attacking the weak-links and stragglers). This guide is very likely to come in handy 
@CrimsonOriole
Don't forget the third reason for pulling, Circuit Boy:
To gather a spread-out spawn into a small packet for easy dispersal of AoE powers.
Otherwise, great guide
Much needed guide, CB!
Another reason to pull -- ranged attacks.
Suppose you're at the entrance to a long hallway filled with Nemesis soldiers. These have excellent perception and very potent long range and area-effect powers. They're among the most dangerous foes in the game.
Now you can charge them or blast them and accept the rain of death they'll slam you with, or you can pull.
With your team safely around the corner, you make them come to you, into melee range. Nemesis soldiers are relatively weaker in hand-to-hand combat. This is called, "breaking their line of fire." Very important.
Or have the Illusion controller use Sup Invis, and drop Phantom Army just as PA get in range to aggro the Nems.
What??
I'm just sayin'!!
Pulling a lieutenant will nearly always give the desired result. As long as the desired result is several foes with direct orders to kill YOU.
Let's emphisize by far and away the most important think in this guide. BREAK LINE OF SIGHT. The whole point of the pull is to move a badguy from where he's at to where you are. (thus the term "pull"). Just starting the battle with a long range attack does not equal pulling. You can pull with melee, just run up hit something and run back to the group and hide. You'll get the whole spawn, but that might be the intention... the point is to not fight them where they spawn at.
So... once again... IF you don't break line of sight... They will just attack you from where they are (or maybe walk a few steps to get in range). So hit them and then Go Hide!
That said, there's lots of handy techniques... some powers can be used from out of line of sight to begin with. The best of these, IMO is teleport foe... It has a huge range, and you can do an enormous amount of tricks with geometry. (Like against the psychic clockwork king... i like to port his minions up onto the nearby warwall ledge and kill t hem so I get him 1 on 1).
Also, most attacks agro at the end of the animation, not at the beginning. One very effective technique is to target a badguy, stand behind a box... queue up an attack (be in range so you get the "target blocked messege", then jump. The attack will activate in the air as soon as you get clear of the box, but you'll come down and land behind the box out of line of sight and the badguy will be agro'd. He can't hit you because he doesn't have line of sight, so it's impossible for him to attack you where he's at. (which would frequently alert his friends agro'ing the whole group).
If there's no way to use a box and jump... you can frequently achieve the same effect by straifing left to right very quickly back and forth using a corner that was "blocking your target" instead of a box... often you'll not be rooted in your attack until after you're back out of line-of-sight. This definatly works well with taunt, but other ranged powers work well too.
Also... adding to this topic there's some other advantages to pulling.
1. Breaking up the alpha attacks. One of the most overlooked is that usually the most dangerous moment of the fight is the very beginning. All targets start with thier biggest attack... and if they all have agro and range on you at the same time, you get hit with the biggest possible attack you can all at the same moment... this makes it impossible to heal or regen back the damage between attacks. However, if you pull... they won't all arrive at the same moment. This breaks up the alpha attacks into smaller parts that can be healed inbetween, or mitigated in other ways.
2. Grouping the badguys. Sometimes spawns are spread out too much. An I deal situation for AoE attacks, debuffs, and controls is to have all of the badguys in a very tight grouping so none of them is out of range. By pulling a spawn around a corner, they all come up to that corner and stop, basicly right on top of each other. This is very adventageous to those members of the team that use AoE type powers and generally it is very bad for the badguys.
Some people call this last technique herding, and a lot of people don't like herding because it takes "too long." Often they're right... you don't need to pull every fight... but if you're fighting things that are well above your level it definatly can be the difference between a team wipe and a successful mission.
Usually what happens in my experience is that people just charge in through missions until they finish or wipe... if they wipe, then it's time to pull (unless everyone quits). Personally, if everyone quits, I usally stay even if I'm by completely alone in an 8 man mission... because I know if I'm patient and careful, I can pull well enough to do those spawns solo. That's how effective pulling can be if done right.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
[ QUOTE ]
Interestingly enough, zombies seem to have a reduced distance as it is very easy to yank (or you can pull one zombie away from another when they are much closer together than normal minions).
[/ QUOTE ]
More specifically, if you take out the Mortificators (the surgeon looking guys, I think thats their name) and/or other lts in the spawn, the perception range of the "normal" shambling zombies drops to almost nothing. A scrapper can just about run up, hit one, and run away and the rest of the spawn won't follow. The fact that the Mortificators also run faster then the zombies allows for a specific tactic against them.
If you are facing a tough group of Vahz (Positron, say), and your team just can't handle the whole spawn, have the team wait a very long distance away. One person takes a shot, ideally ranged, against the Mortificator. The whole spawn comes running in most cases, the puller runs away. Keep the Mortificator selected, and watch him come after you. Right to where the rest of the team is waiting to beat him down.
The rest of the zombies trundling along behind the Mortificator stop and stand around waiting for new orders, whereupon you can separate them easily.
Another, more general pulling trick; stand next to something you can jump behind and leap sideways towards the cover, firing off a ranged attack in midair. Typically you land as the shot finishes animating and shoots *through* the wall. This prevents any return fire (which tends to alert the rest of the spawn) and just gets the target running to you in many cases. In fact I've sometimes tried this and the pull was *so* good the critter just stood there, alerted but not knowing where to chase you. Sometimes showing yourself will get them to come after you, but it may get them to shoot you instead which can alert the spawn.
Different spawns and different missions seem to have different pulling rules, though. Castle has said critter AI has something like 50 adjustable parameters, and I've definitely seen some mob types and missions where its almost impossible to separate spawns, and they will chase you huge distances. Always be prepared for the whole spawn to come, no matter how good you are at pulling.
Pulling appears to be a fast-vanishing art. In groups I've been in lately, someone says they're going to pull, and then they do something that's... not pulling. I intend to cover a few things about pulling.
WHY PULL?
There are a couple reasons to pull. The first is to attempt to split a few foes from their spawn. The second is to move one spawn away from another spawn that might (or, worse, will) aggro if your group is too close.
WHEN TO PULL
This is probably the most important question about pulling: when should a group pull versus when should a group charge in?
If a spawn is by itself without the danger of aggroing any other spawns nearby, there is no need to pull. Charging directly into the spawn is the better option in those situations.
A group should pull when a spawn is too close to another spawn and that charging into combat would lead to aggroing both spawns.
To this end, it helps immensely to know how spawns typically lay on the mission's map your group is on. Certain rooms, particularly the Tech Lab's "Room of Death", are known for having several tightly-packed spawns within aggro range of one another.
HOW TO PULL
This depends on what you're trying to do. If you're trying to split a single foe or a few foes from their spawn, you'll use different tactics than if you're just trying to reposition a whole spawn.
If you're trying to split a single foe or a few foes from their spawn, use the following tactics:<ul type="square">
1) Target a Minion, not a Lieutenant or a Boss. If there's a wanderer, target him or her.
2) Turn on Sprint.
3) Use a low-damage single-target attack, preferably one that moves slowly through the air and/or that slows your foes' movement. Infrigidate, out of the Cold Domination Corruptor set, is ideal for this purpose. Do not use a Stun, Immobilize, or Hold power.
4) Break Line-of-Sight somehow. Go around a corner, duck behind a dumpster, whatever. Just break the Line-of-Sight between you and your target.
5) Wait for your target to come into view again.
6) Attack.[/list]If you're on a group and you're trying to reposition one spawn away from another, use the following tactics:
<ul type="square">1) All group members except the puller MUST BE out of Line-of-Sight, even if they're Stealthed or Invisible.
2) Target any foe in the spawn. Bosses are preferred because they'll usually pull the rest of the spawn with them, which is your goal.
3) Use any single-target attack that is not a Stun, Immobilize, or Hold power. Lower damage is preferred for lower aggro, though not necessary.
4) Break Line-of-Sight. This is very important: All group members should remain out of Line-of-Sight until the spawn fully arrives.[/list]I hope this helps.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel