Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
Would also like to thank Posi for posting. It means a lot (to me anyway) to know someone is looking.
I now have an accolade that gives 10% health (high pain). I have the PPP armor. I can say neither of these seem to really do much for the dom AT (both will help in PVP, but nothing major). I can say mez protection/resistance will certainly help with solo survival.
However, on a team, doms dont contribute as much as they should. Some ideas I had this weekend (so they may suck):
1) Can AOE hold recharge times be reduced some? Having glacier up for each spawn (not perma) would make doms better for a team. I may be wrong (havent been playing my defender) but seems like fearsome stare is up a lot more than glacier. Seems like the recharge is based on level 50 trollers with 3 recharges in the AOE hold and hasten, with the fear that with 3 hold durations (unrealistic slotting, as acc is required for it to work well) would make it perma or close to it. As it stands, I havent even taken and dont plan to take the AOE hold on my fire/fire dom, as its rarely up when needed and I dont have powerboost on that toon.
2) Can significant side effects be added to holds? The idea is, these effect do nothing when they are held, but make throwing a hold a good idea when they cant overcome a high mag (like AV with triangles going or players under BFs/unyielding, etc). Note the word significant, because as the hold isnt working, this would be the main use of the hold power against AVs and for PVP. I am thinking -acc, -damage (maybe even -regen?) or some thing like that. Note that this would mean nothing in a fight where the hold worked, as they would be held and couldnt attack.
Some points:
1. Controller damage is real good in PVE, and awesome in PVP (when they get a hold, they do have the same BF issue). Most people upset with doms are partially so due to having played a controller, and expecting MORE damage, but getting LESS in actual game play.
2. People dont value control, they value keeping the team going. The difference is that fearsome stare isnt as strong control as glacier, but if it allows the team to wipe the spawn and keep going, then fearsome stare is as good as glacier, only with a lower recharge time. Now, ice slick/seeds of confusion is as good as fearstare, but an AOE sleep isnt as good (flashfreeze). And note that I am saying "as good as", meaning the corruptor brings much more (healing, debuffs, etc) while this is all the dominator brings (and the corrutor can do more damage as well, if thats what is needed instead of control/debuff).
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We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active), and are currently data-mining PvP to see what effect our last set of tweaks to the AT have had.
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I was just thinking this the other day that when in dom mode you should have mez protection. The devs have read my mind.
A fundamental flaw was made when the Dominator class was even implmented, and that was the actual game mechanics stressing their control over their damage. The AT should have been Assault/Control, not Control/Assault, and the Assault pool should be doing Corruptor Level base damage.
The Corruptor STILL has the vital team roll of Buff/Debuff, and with Scourge and buffs, would probably still be the top damage class, but the dominator would fill it's role as stated a lot better.
Such changes will never occur now, so the next best thing needs to occur. Raise the Assault Pool Damage, cut the Domination Damage buff.
Heck, I'd settle for 60-75% of Dominations damage buff being applied the class constantly, and then Domination being stripped of all damage buffs completely, and becoming a pure "control" enhancer.
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States plays a plant/psi Dom (I think), I don't know what level he is yet.
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Heh. I just deleted my level 26 plant/psi dominator. Granted, she was just getting to the point of starting to be more fun, with the Carrion Creepers. And yes, Seeds of Confusion is absolutely amazing.
But the damage that you do when you're not using domination is so horrble, particularly with /psi...the character just wasn't that fun for me overall. Being underpowered 90% of the time and then a goddess for 10% of the time just isn't for me. Even if you tweak those numbers so I'm a goddess a little bit more often, the drudgery of the rest of the time isn't fun. Maybe it gets better in the higher levels, but getting to 26 was like pulling teeth. Having your entire secondary be next to useless wore on me.
But then, I've always disliked defenders too, and they suffer from the same effects of having a completely toned down secondary. But at least some of the defender primaries can debuff enemy resistance to help compensate a bit. Dominators don't get that.
I liked the _idea_ of dominators a lot. The idea of a character that could both control and dish out damage is a good one. But as you level and see how poorly the damage scales, I find it a little lacking.
My fire/dark corruptor is far more fun than any of the dominators I've tried. Good control, excellent damage. Would've been nice to have the reverse, a character with excellent control and good damage. My plant/psi felt like Excellent control and truly terrible damage. I've heard that /psi gets a little better once Subdue is available, and _way_ better once the level 32 power is available. But the pain of the rest of the powerset made it not worth the struggle any more. A very minor tweak to melee damage and an increased emphasis on domination wasn't what the set needed, in my opinion.
Wow...gotta love how a red-name post brings out all the loonies who are suddenly experts on the AT.
Ah well...At least we are getting some attention apparently. I would like to say though that however this mez resistance ends up manifesting, please, please, please, do not tie it in with domination. Posi said it in his post with the Jekyl and Hyde comment. We have too much wrapped up in domination as it its. In fact...get rid of the damage bonus while you are at it and give us AT damage modifiers of 80 range and 85 melee.
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So true. Just take Gravity. 2 powers that are attacks when Dominators get an attack secondary? Lack of thinking there.
[/ QUOTE ]QFT
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I can't blame people for bashing on Posi when the first Red name post outside of "I'm locking this thread" is 4 words.
But now people actually do get the dev take on Dominators and DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM hits.
For the 2007 awards I nominate the Dominator forum for the Best Drama in a Forum award 
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Most of them are right though, Positron while I respect him a lot isnt the "Word of God" he made a post and everyone here is obviously giving him a bit of a reality check.
Maybe he already knows these things and the 'tweaks' they plan address them and you're all jumping the gun? Perhaps. Maybe not -- if he doesnt, and hes now reading this thread, he should know now. Perhaps, however unlikely he'll actually address some of the responses.
You really need to play a grav dom in a melee team. After either hearing the ongoing complaints or realizing that you cant use such a large number of your powers, you would change grav.
And of course being on a large teams moving fast fighting lots of mobs... will remind you how squishy you are.
You may find that grav dom is not quite so fun in this situation.
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Thanks for posting for real Posi
Seems like you say what the "pro-Dom" people say. Some tweaks are needed but people blow some problems way out of proportion.
[/ QUOTE ] Who's asking for anything "out of proportion"? All I'm asking for is a reduction in propel activation time, make DS a toggle or single target and FGS improve the animation so you can tell whats shifted easily, and get rid of wormhole's knockback (better yet make it pile um up in a tight group). Sure longer holds and/or better damage would be nice, but it's the flawed powers and how poorly even the supposedly good powers work with my team that is the real problem.
I generally prefer to team. But everyone on my teams realizes how little grav doms bring. I even played along side a plant dom for quite a while. In 20s his seeds of confusion was quite useful, what did I have to offer to help out as much? Crushing Field? Doesn't stop attacks. Grav Dist Field? Only up once every 3 or 4 fights and duration is short. Wormhole? My melee team hates wormhole. Oh how about Dimension Shift. All teams I've been on that have seen it hate it. Yes plant dom was ok if only for seeds. Let me trade worthless DS for Seeds and I'll be happy. Let me trade virtually unused wormhole for "Spore Burst" and I'll be happy. Make propel useful for a dom (that has a whole set of damage secondaries) by decreasing it's activation time or swap it out with a useful control....
There may be a few people here who have turned these grav weaknesses into a positive for them. But maybe grav is one of the reasons why the statistics for doms are lacking when compared to others. Maybe if they really put in a few dom tweaks then the AT and even Grav will not have ongoing complaints.
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We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active),
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SUCH good news. I hate it when I pop Domination and then get held for a very long time. 
Resistance would be nice.
And Yay for you playing on Justice. 
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
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First off, I appreciate that a red name has responded and is paying attention to our points of view, whether they agree or not. Getting response at all helps us feel like we're not completely being hung out to dry.
Next, I like the idea of any mez protection..I'll take it whether under domination or not....I think it's a cool tie in.
However, I do agree that the Jeckyll side of us is the side that is lacking much more than the Hyde.
I know that the game is predominatly PvE players and I certainily think that doms need a bit of work in PvE, however, I was wondering if Posi or States have brought there dominators into PvP and how they have fared.
All the mez protection in the world won't do much to stop you from getting 2/3 hit blapped. As soon as the dominator begins to have that 'glow' (if not before), he is target #1.
I have seen in many arena matches now (I'm sure it can be datamined, as well) how dominators 'add' to a team....
Generally, they 'add' killcounts for the opposing team.
I haven't lost all hope yet, and I enjoy the playstyle of my dominator...however, specifically with PvP and Heroes (of the purple triangle nature), I don't feel like I can add as much to a team as any of the other AT's. I have heard it many times and cannot disagree...why have a dom on the team when you can have another corruptor or brute?
There has to be a reason for people to want us. If our holds aren't effective against the AV types and our damage isn't worth using (melee against an AV = dead dom), then why not have a corruptor or MM who can debuff and add more damage to the mix?
Anyway, again, thanks for at least checking things out. I hope that we can get to a place where Doms have a place.
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Positron, I'm happy to hear that you and States you're enjoying your Dominators. Like States, I enjoyed mine when he was still in his 30s.
If you are planning AT changes based on a toon you have only played to the high 30s then you are going to miss the real point of all the complaints about the AT - That all of the problems people have pointed are immensely exacerbated after lvl 40. It's nice that you like your Dom now. Please stop by and tell us how much you like him after you complete your first patron arc.
I've played for a long time, seen 6 out of 7 issues hit the servers, leveled two 50s, talked my SG through ED panic, but playing a lvl 40 Dominator did something that no other bump or crisis in this game has achieved... A week after I7 dropped I was so disappointed I was ready to quit. For the first time in 20 months of play I felt cheated and wanted my money back.
What Doms need is not better Domination. That's just going to make them more binary then they already are.
- If Dominators are expected to go into melee they need shields and status protection that is available at all times.
- They need hard controls that are recharged and ready to go in every fight, not every second or third.
- They need control over their pet(s) so they can be used strategically and safely.
- They need a hit point boost. No Dominator should ever have fewer HP then their own pet.
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Dominators give up a bit of control for some good direct damage attacks that Controllers would give their left mouse button for.
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I personally have two level 50 Controlers, a mind/emp and an ill/rad, so I know what it's like to have both pure control with a little less damage to softer control and much greater damage. It's on of my favorite archetypes to play.
I've tried a couple of doms myself, and I have to say, I don't agree with the above quote at all. Not only can controllers generate more consistant and higher damage than a dominator, most of them can do so in a much safer environment. All of the controller secondaries have ways to reduce the incoming damage, heal themselves or both, while doms are in a race to try and lock down and/or defeat their foes before they are defeated.
I'd wager than a fire/kin controller or an ill/rad [or several other combos] of even level can blow through missions faster and in more relative safety than most Doms out there. Sure there are a few exception on both sides, but I'd say the damage + safety factor which will bring on less debt and more "fun" is in the Controller's favor. [to me, "fun" is defeating the bad guys and not dying much, which lets me level faster and not have to work off debt]
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We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active)
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What mezz resistance?
It's nice to see more than just Dominator players refuting that statement. Thanks.
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
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So where are the devs on this.
States in beta said he would be keeping a close eye on Dom's after all the Dom's are too weak calls.
Then they said in I7 they were still looking and here we are a month later and nothing said.
So where are the devs in all this, it seems like they really dont care much. Its like dom's dont have enough players to be worth spending time on.
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States plays a plant/psi Dom (I think), I don't know what level he is yet. Around the end of April, I started a Fire/Energy Dominator on Justice. I'm level 37 now.
Fun? You bet, and I've played all the AT's in both games at pretty much every level. Dominators are definitely my cup of tea.
States and I -still- keep a close eye on Dominators. Datamining supports SOME of the claims made on these boards, but refutes others. Personal experience with the AT also lends credibility to some of the complaints, while showing others are simply blown out of porportion.
I read a bunch of the posts in this thread, not all of them though (yet). A lot of users hit the nail on the head when stating that you can't think of Dominator as "CoV's Controller". We went through a lot of effort to make sure that the ATs played and felt different between the two games. Dominators give up a bit of control for some good direct damage attacks that Controllers would give their left mouse button for.
Then of course there is the Domination ability, which is the real Jekyl and Hyde of the AT. A mild-manner Dominator with a full Domination bar can, at his or her discretion, become an unstoppable machine of destruction and control. While it never lasts "long enough" (even I am disappointed at hearing the sound effect of it wearing off), I've had missions where I have gotten Domination off four times from mission-entry to having Mission Complete appear on the screen. Good times indeed.
We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active), and are currently data-mining PvP to see what effect our last set of tweaks to the AT have had.
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I just respecced my 22 Plant / Fire dominator into a leaner, meaner build, and I really love it now. (I was not liking it so much before the respec.) I've found I'm much more efficient even with a "gimp" power like an AOE sleep (which I've found very useful solo but not-so-much in groups). With Domination I can destroy an Elite Boss (I punked out Sea Witch and only used END inspirations and 1 break free to get through her little cloud of doom).
Adding a mez resist to a Dominator with Domination running would be a HUGE help and might be the tweak that's needed.
(For those who are curious, I dumped all of my immoblize powers and squeezed Stamina into the build. I might re-add the single target immobilize later, but we'll see. So far I've been using Seeds of Confusion as my bread and butter.)
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We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active), and are currently data-mining PvP to see what effect our last set of tweaks to the AT have had.
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Hey, I can't complain about that change, but what are you doing to address the poor early-game performance of Dominators?
Is poor Dominator early-game performance a complaint you consider to be "credible" or "blown out of proportion"?
Personally, I see it as very credible. And given that poor early-game performance was reason enough for you to radically revamp controllers (eliminating pet armies and adding containment), it seems to me that Dominators deserve no less attention to their early game problems (although it will likely take less radical solutions).
I've heard a number of quality solutions proposed to the problem of early-game performance problems for Dominators, including:
<ul type="square">[*]Put Dominators (ranged and melee) on the Tanker (melee) scalar until level 20, then downgrade them towards their original (ranged and melee) scalars from 20-25. So they START at Tanker levels of damage output and slowly work their way down to Dominator levels by level 25 or so.[*]Rearranging the assault sets so the heavy-hitting short-range/melee powers all show up by within the first 6 powers in the set and the later powers are the more ranged powers instead of the more damaging ones - frontloads damage to the early game where we need it, but still gives us something (range) to look forward to in the sets[*]Having some or all of the +75% damage from Domination tied to the size of the Domination bar instead of the clicking of the Domination button (more helpful early game because the +DMG buff is a bigger deal in early levels before SOs)[*]Increasing the Dominator ranged damage multiplier to be the same as Corruptors[*]Raising the Dominator melee damage multiplier significantly, to 0.9 or so[*]Changing the DoTs in the Dominator primaries to instant damage[*]Making control the Dominator Secondary and Assualt the Dominator Primary[*]Some combination of the above items[/list]
Not that I care HOW you solve it, so much as THAT you solve it.
Still, glad to see you are paying attention to Dominators. Thanks for the update.
Hah, "what mez resistance?" I was thinking the same thing 
Also I hope that this is mez resistance that gets built bigger and bigger while the domination bar is filling and becomes mez protection when domination is active?
If not I am tending to agree that this is just serving to make us more dependent on Domination.
However, to all those that think doms are gimp, I can't buy that. I was talking with some vg mates and conveying how some people on the forums equate doms with gimped, and they flat out couldn't believe anyone would think that. They think doms are very powerful and I play mostly a grav/energy dom with them I can't recall for sure with even con minions, but I know I can 2 shot +1 minions with tf and bc without domination running.
As much as I love domination the way it is I can see the value of giving our domination mode damage boost for a substantial damage boost regardless of wether in domination mode or not.
Lots of good suggestions here that would help those who seem to have problems playing doms have an easier time. And I tend to agree that whatever changes are brought should not only be tied to domination mode.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
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I'm glad the developers are watching and giving some thought to changes before they jump in. I have some thoughts I hope you'll consider along with those, though...
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Dominators give up a bit of control for some good direct damage attacks that Controllers would give their left mouse button for.
[/ QUOTE ] This is extremely misleading. I'm not saying it was intentional deception, but it's apples to oranges. Let's compare apples to apples.
First, the good news. Dominators didn't give up that much control over Controllers. Sure, Doms are a bit weaker without Domination, but then they're significantly more with it. That kind of balances itself out, especially since the Dominator has the option of using that boost when it's most beneficial to him.
So where is our basket of apples? We're really talking about secondaries. Those attacks you mentioned, that thing the Controllers should be drooling over, that's our secondary. There are a couple decent attacks, but as a whole it really doesn't seem to be the kind of damage a sane Controller would be giving up a Support secondary for, you know?
There's our apples to apples. In a strict primary-secondary comparison, Dominators are a Controller who gave up Support for Assault. So, is Assault really as valuable as Support?
Edit: In other words, does Assault pull its weight in a team? All other secondaries really seem to, including Support for a Controller...Assault for a Dominator, though, is a marginal benefit to the team.
Well...it gets a little messy here. If a Dominator and Controller both start a fight by using a control power (and who wouldn't, with a Control primary?), the Controller has the benefit of Containment for the entire battle, while the Dominator quite obviously does not. I don't have a problem with that, mind you, but whenever you're thinking of a Controller's damage, it needs to be doubled in practice--quite the boost there!
I'm suspicious of the notion that a Dominator who isn't in Domination mode really comes out ahead in terms of the number of hits they need to kill an average foe. Every single hit after the first doing double damage really tends to make a difference...and if a damage-secondary AT isn't clearly doing better than a support-secondary AT, well, that's just not right.
By all rights, two things should be happening:
Dominators should be outdamaging Controllers by a very clear margin.
Assault should be as valuable, in the end, as Support.
I've yet to have a fight go by where I thought to myself "where would my team have been without my damage"...while not a fight goes by that a Controller's Support isn't welcomed. There's a lack of parity, and that's really where it shows.
It's true, Dominators aren't the Controllers of CoV. We're supposed to be giving up support and gaining damage. In practice, though, it doesn't seem like the latter is happening. It seems like we bought a Porsche only to find a VW engine in it--Assault looks sweet in the driveway but only "meh" when we hit the road
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In a head on fight controller vs dominator a controller will always win. But look at the key words. Head on. But unfortunately that is never the case. Break frees will always exist. So you can count the controllers double damage non existant.
Once the Dominator activates a full charge domination it takes like 2 break frees to get out of it.. so over all the dominator once again wins out over control.
Dominators can also blow through melee's mez protections. A controller will never really get that chance before those ATs eat them alive.
So in all... dominators do out damage controllers and when it comes down to it... their holds are better. They are better solo but not as good for support. If they get more damage then they shouldn't have as good of a domination as they have now.
And as far as a porch with a VW engine goes... it's still a porch and VW engine or not it can ride with the best of them. Unless obcourse you have a gimp build. I mean a porch that is only for show and has no real power under it.
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States plays a plant/psi Dom (I think), I don't know what level he is yet. Around the end of April, I started a Fire/Energy Dominator on Justice. I'm level 37 now.
Fun? You bet, and I've played all the AT's in both games at pretty much every level. Dominators are definitely my cup of tea.
States and I -still- keep a close eye on Dominators. Datamining supports SOME of the claims made on these boards, but refutes others. Personal experience with the AT also lends credibility to some of the complaints, while showing others are simply blown out of porportion.
I read a bunch of the posts in this thread, not all of them though (yet). A lot of users hit the nail on the head when stating that you can't think of Dominator as "CoV's Controller". We went through a lot of effort to make sure that the ATs played and felt different between the two games. Dominators give up a bit of control for some good direct damage attacks that Controllers would give their left mouse button for.
Then of course there is the Domination ability, which is the real Jekyl and Hyde of the AT. A mild-manner Dominator with a full Domination bar can, at his or her discretion, become an unstoppable machine of destruction and control. While it never lasts "long enough" (even I am disappointed at hearing the sound effect of it wearing off), I've had missions where I have gotten Domination off four times from mission-entry to having Mission Complete appear on the screen. Good times indeed.
We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active), and are currently data-mining PvP to see what effect our last set of tweaks to the AT have had.
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Posi, thanks for replying to this thread. My "main" villain is a GravEnergy Dominator, currently at level 26. The first 20 levels of that were extremely tough, and although it's better now, it's still not easy to play and level a Dom -- especially not when compared to the other ATs.
I have only 2 requests to help "fix" Doms:
<ul type="square">[*]Reduce Endurance Costs[*]Reduce Animation/Recharge Times[/list]I hate that I have to train Stamina and Hasten in order to play my Dom: I thought we were trying to do away with "must have" powers?
I'd appreciate additional damage output, but I understand that this probably isn't possible/practical, without upsetting AT balance, or turning Doms into "Blasters with Holds" (and of course we can't have that now, can we? ). So if you're going to keep our damage output at current levels, at least speed us up a little, and reduce our "overhead".
Thanks for your time and attention!
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It's nice to see more than just Dominator players refuting that statement. Thanks.
[/ QUOTE ]Agreed. Heh.
Man, I -laughed- when I read that Statement. I played up my lllusion/Radiation controller around Issue 1's release, I sure as Hell remember soloing bosses like they were cake.
When I eventually rolled my Gravity/FF controller... Oh yes. Seriously, my low level controllers most certainly out-damage my low level dominator. That line was a bunch of BS.
Folding@Home
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I've heard a number of quality solutions proposed to the problem of early-game performance problems for Dominators, including:
[*]Messing with the AT modifiers so they START at, say 0.8 and slowly work their way down to 0.65 by level 25 or so
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Um... we already have higher damage scales than that.
We drop to .65 at 25, but start at .93 (ranged).
Damage Scalars
[ QUOTE ][*]Having some or all of the +100% damage from Domination tied to the size of the Domination bar instead of the clicking of the Domination button (more helpful early game because the +DMG buff is a bigger deal in early levels before SOs)
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AFAIK, that's 75% (37.5% after SO's), not 100%.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
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I'd *much* rather have Support for a secondary than Assault. I think Doms would give their left mouse button for Dark Miasma or Thermal Radiation as a secondary long, long before a Controller would ever ask for any Assault set instead. I have several Controllers, and though the 1-31 levels are slow, post pets turned my Controller into a solo'er.
Instead of comparing the two, let's compare Doms with Brutes. This isn't so weird since Tanks and Controllers share the same role(though with different methods). These are the ATs that keep mobs from attacking the team.
On a big team, a Tanker should be able to draw and keep about half the aggro of the spawn. A Controller should be able to hold/sleep/mez half the spawn. A Tanker can do decent damage. A Controller can do about the same(depending on which pets they have). A Tanker has the best health and damage protection in the game. A Controller has low health and little protection, but can heal, debuff mobs, and buff teammates, making their team shine.
On a big team, a Brute should be able to draw and keep about half the aggro of the spawn. A Dom should be able to hold/sleep/mez half the spawn. A Brute can do very impressive damage. A Dom, not so much. A Brute has the best villainside health and damage protection. A Dom, the worst.
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I'd *much* rather have Support for a secondary than Assault. I think Doms would give their left mouse button for Dark Miasma or Thermal Radiation as a secondary long, long before a Controller would ever ask for any Assault set instead. I have several Controllers, and though the 1-31 levels are slow, post pets turned my Controller into a solo'er.
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As someone with several controllers, and several more doms, I can't do anything but completely disagree with you, at least in my case. I'd despise it if my Dom was saddled with a support secondary. The best day my controller ever had was the one where she had Fire Sword as a temp power.
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We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active), and are currently data-mining PvP to see what effect our last set of tweaks to the AT have had.
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Actually, I'd prefer to have some good mez protection when NOT in Domination mode, and have it go away in Domination mode.
The real issue is the lackluster abilities outside of Domination, which is most of the time. I think that's what turns most players off the archetype. It's easy to give up on dominators by the late teens when you're doing mediocre damage most of the time with high endurance costs. Beefing up Domination won't make the archetype any more attractive, since Domination is already very nifty.