Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
[ QUOTE ]
I made a dominator a while ago, he was fun and did pretty good. I know doms arent as good as trollers but i keep hearing that all doms are gimp and suck and stuff. Is this realy true? I always find a need for em. I dont plan on lvl'ing up a dom, i just came here to ask what the fuss is about. I ihave nothing against dominators because i always find them useful So i'm asking
Do dominators suck?
Are they fun?
Why do people say they arent good?
very curious, what do u guys think?
[/ QUOTE ]
Oftentimes, people say we suck in hopes that the devs will give us some love where we need it. They try to make a mountain out of a molehill because, to them, "you have to make a problem look 100x worse than it is to get the devs to fix it."
The bigger reason a lot of people say we suck is we could do with some generous tweaks and buffs here and there, because we are a _tad_ less powerful than everyone else--we are balanced around Domination, which makes us a bit underpowered some of the time and slightly overpowered the rest of the time. Not many people like that, including myself, but I still love Domination. I just think we need to be made so we're not as weak when it's down. And having it up more often, like a loooooot of people wanted and got, hasn't solved that problem.
EDIT: Another big part of the "gimp" calls is a lot of people state we have "two secondaries" because Controllers get a Hold modifier of 1.25 and ours is only 1.00 (same as Defenders'), and our ranged modifier is the same as Defenders' (.65). In a way, I agree it shouldn't be like that. Even if the difference IS only two or three seconds, people underestimate how much a difference two seconds really is--with my Terrify power, it's only two seconds shy of being perma against +3 mobs with Acc/Acc/Duration/Duration/Recharge/Recharge slotting. Additionally, at level 50, Controllers' base duration bonus amounts to 4.5 seconds for the Single Target Hold--a 9 second increase when enhancements are factored in. Yes, that's pretty huge.
[waits for Shubbie to come in, stating that Plant is the only half decent set and all the others are gimptastic]
If you dont build almost perfect yes they are going to suck.
Also some doms dont develop till the mid to late 30's.
Plant seems to do better than the others. They arent awful to the point of useless, but adding anything else almost always contribute more.
Look its long been my point if something else can do a better job, the one doing the lesser job is gimp.
If a necro/dark MM or ice/dark cor has as good control,better damage, and buff/debuff then yes dominators are gimp.
Dominators are not unplayable, but they dont do as good as job as a control corruptor, control MM, or controllers in Coh.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Yea, pretty much what he said. It seems Dominators were designed and then had their damage/hold times/mag nerfed around the inherent Domination power. It almost looks like AE attacks were nerfed when designing the AT to prevent them from becoming overpowered when in Domination mode.
But, a Dominator's endurance is a serious issue. The damage to endurance to time to kill a mob ratio is very poor.
There is more...all problems can be attributed to the clunky inherent power "Domination".
For my opinion on the matter, check the links in my sig.
Vids is exactly right on the subject. Doms do not suck, but are noticably weaker than most other ATs most of the time due to Domination being the pivot that our balance is based on. This leads to peaks and valleys, and occasional frustration(how many other ATs need to reset a mission if they die right before the boss fight?).
Additionaly, many doms on the boards feal that we are being ignored and therefore are trying to create enough of an uproar to get some atention.
As for are Dominators fun: Absoutly, but they can be difficult to adapt to and occasionaly frustrating.
[ QUOTE ]
Do dominators suck?
[/ QUOTE ]
No.
[ QUOTE ]
Are they fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.
[ QUOTE ]
Why do people say they arent good?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because they don't dish out lots of damage.
[ QUOTE ]
very cuious, what do u guys think?
[/ QUOTE ]
See my signature. 
Seriously, though, there are lots of threads where it feels like a bud-light commercial ("Doms suck!" "Doms rule!" "Doms suck!" "Doms rule!"). Just depends on what kind of toon you like to play, really.
I love my doms.
Co-Founder of W.I.C.K.E.D., a top 5 VG on Justice (inactive)
Lily Stormcrow: 50 Storm/Dark Defender
Elizabeth Spectre: 50 Grav/Psi Dominator
Lady Viridian: 50 Rad/Rad Corruptor
�Yet call not this long life; but think that I am, by being dead, immortal; can ghosts die?�
- John Donne
There's a big difference between a 1-31 dominator and a 32+ dominator.
With 3 fire imps in tow my dominator is a damage monster. Without the imps - decent damage and ehh control. Certainly nothing special.
From my experience the AT is: Slower to start, fussier about build choices, less forgiving about play mistakes. This is where the Devs should spend their effort (i'm ignoring PvP issues since i don't PvP).
It's all overcomable, but it's really easy to become frustrated and quit before you get there.
You enjoyed your Dom, OP. That's all that matters. Who cares what THEY say?
For me, Doms don't suck. For others, Doms do suck because they're not Controllers. For others, Doms do suck because they're not blasters.
Just be careful with your endurance until level 22, when you can get stamina and SO EndRedux enhancers.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why do people say they arent good?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because they don't dish out lots of damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Truthfully I feel that's the core of it. So much of the game is centered on the big hurt, and a class that doesn't bring it will generally be looked at as inferior.
Doms don't bring the big hurt, and they demand a playstyle with a premium on situation awareness, and fast accurate judgements about where to focus. It's the least straightforward CoV AT, so it's bound to get it's share of detractors who think it should be "more like" whatever they want it to be more like.
If we were made more efficient, either through better damage for the endurance we use, or less endurance for all the abilities we need to spam, some of the issues might be solved, however that wouldn't change the fact that Dominators have a very different playstyle than the others.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Dominators are excellent in every area of the game except Archvillain fights and PvP. In Archvillain fights, they underperform, and in PvP they underperform (in both cases for the same reason: the heavy negation their primary skillset suffers due to purple triangles and break frees/buffs). Otherwise they're just dandy.
Well, I guess I am still a new with lvl 24 Dom (Gravity at that).
My line is: Dominator only sucks if you allow him/her to be. This is soooooooooo true. You can be a GREAT Dominator or a super sucky one who doesn't understand how to aggro/control and WHEN to use AoE hold/attacks. I've seen some Doms start the fight with AoE dot damage and bang, half of their health is gone and they just try to run/die from running. Doms don't have that kind of defense/resistance to "start" the AoE damage. You just have to understand how the game works and how control works and then you'll do fine.
Dominator also tends to shine way better in group. When I team up with 1 or 2 MMs, I feel soooooo invincible. lol I focus 70% on controling while the pets do the damage. Those pets can be quite squishy if you can't babysit them. 
I don't heal (well, except Aid Other which IS very useful in tricky situations) but I help lifting monsters that are within melee range against tier 1 pets.
You just have to understand how the game works, then you'll be a great dominator. If you team up with a MM, HEAL the pet if you can. Stay back and watch what's going on and control accordingly.
Of course, Dom sucks if Damage is all you care about... choose Corruptor then.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Doms are fun, and well balanced IMO. However, AT creep has allowed */dark powersets (mainly on the power of fearsome stare and pet gaze) and Ice/* (freeze rays) to approximate decent control. Its not nearly as good control as doms, but its enough to get by (which is often all thats needed).
Combine this with lower damage, and the fact that we dont normally have AOEs that stack the way debuffs and buffs do, and we are less attractive to teams, especially ones for extreme challenges such as the Lord Recluse SF.
I think its the case that the Dom AT can solo well (or mine always could), and do decent on teams. However, they dont compare well to a controller due to the damage given to trollers to let them solo easier. So, doms dont look that good when compared to some ATs that somewhat compare to them. What no one mentions is maybe the other ATs are really the ones with the problems.
Still, I see two issues the devs should have already dealt with and havent. What do doms do when fighting EB/AVs with triangles (what do they bring to the team), and how do they compete in PVP with breakfrees so easy to obtain and use.
I have the 10% health accolade now, and it hasnt changed squat for me. If 10% boost to health doesnt really make the play change, then you have to wonder how the devs could make anyone happy. To me, it comes back to letting my powers work.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why do people say they arent good?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because they don't dish out lots of damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Truthfully I feel that's the core of it. So much of the game is centered on the big hurt, and a class that doesn't bring it will generally be looked at as inferior.
Doms don't bring the big hurt, and they demand a playstyle with a premium on situation awareness, and fast accurate judgements about where to focus. It's the least straightforward CoV AT, so it's bound to get it's share of detractors who think it should be "more like" whatever they want it to be more like.
If we were made more efficient, either through better damage for the endurance we use, or less endurance for all the abilities we need to spam, some of the issues might be solved, however that wouldn't change the fact that Dominators have a very different playstyle than the others.
[/ QUOTE ]
For some people, especially people who say they used to be Controllers, are disappointed with the Hold Duration times, and I think they may have a good reason to be disappointed, thinking deeper into it.
Let's look at things this way: Our Duration modifier is 1.00, and Controllers' is 1.25, so right off the bat they have a 25% bonus to hold times.
At level 1, our Hold lasts 12 seconds, theirs lasts 15. Both have recharges of about 8 seconds. That is usually enough to hold a boss for 4 seconds, while theirs lets them hold a boss for 7--one second of downtime.
Factor in that for every level you gain, your hold durations increase by 1%, and you'll discover that the main reason former Controllers are so disappointed is your durations at level 50 are the same as theirs were at level 25. That also means, that by level 26, your hold's base duration is finally as long as theirs were at level one. (Of course, if you slotted your hold PROPERLY, it should last twice as long thanks to SO enhancements).
That could very well be a contributing reason why our teens are so horrid AND why some people have so much trouble with Elite Bosses--our holds don't even last as long as a level one Controllers' just yet, and unless you have the money for DO enhancements, you'll barely be able to hold a boss without Domination, while a Controller of the same level and enhancements could hold one without much trouble at all.
The damage we do is only half the equation. Doms are "late bloomers" thanks to both the fact that we get our good attacks very late, and our control modifier affects us more greatly than some people choose to think. Sure, with Domination, all that goes away and then some, but that's the core of the problem.
EDIT: I'm wired, and I am just noticing a lot of gammar errors in my post. If I seem to edit it five times a minute, that's why.
Ice/dark Necro/dark necro/ta Dark/dark and other controllery MM's and corruptors arent going anywhere. They give up damage for that control, but they still do more damage than dominators.
Heck any MM can outdamage any pre pet dominator by a large margin and even post pet dominators by a moderate.
Necro/dark and Necro/ta have some really good control. And much of it soft like tar patch and glue which werent nerfed to heck in the controller nerf.
Dominators are in a bad place compared to the controllerMM's and cor's.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
I have a feeling Dominator is the hardest to balance of all.
Hold effect is the nastiest thing in this game. You cannot do ANYTHING when behing Held. That's as strong effect as you can get. How much balance do you need to allow Dominator to control in PvP? How fast do you allow Dom to build up their Domination?
PvP's problem has bigger issue due to Inspirations so I am not going to get into that.
But as for PvE, I only feel a bit inferior when fighting against Arc Villains but once I HOLD them, I feel so superb.. only if it's a few seconds of fame.
One thing they can probably do is to increase Domination gain when fighting against bosses. This way Doms can build up their Dom faster and thus dealing out more damage even though they fail to hold/control.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
No, they don't suck. However, I've found a few things are key. They're a lot harder to play as a first character, since you won't have the infamy for DOs or SOs off the bat. And Doms really need those upgrades.
Doms are fun, but a lot more fun in small groups than a) solo or b) big groups. Solo, low level doms just don't compare to the other ATs. At all. In big groups, prior to the 30s (and even after, to some degree), Doms just don't have the tools to do either job well. They offer limited to acceptable CC for large spawns and mediocre damage (and don't have the tools to survive significant aggro, as a general rule).
That said, in teams of about 2-5, Doms are a heck of a lot of fun and can make a huge contribution.
People say that they aren't good because they don't really excel at anything. They can control competently, but don't offer a significant amount of support (and if they're focusing on damage, they're controlling less as a general rule). They do moderate damage, but can't take a lot of aggro and don't have many tools beyond CC to mitigate it.
Overall, as much as I like Doms, when I'm forming a large team, I take them knowing that, as a general rule, a corruptor, MM, or Brute will bring more to the table. I still want them along, since they do have a role.
On the other hand, when I want a duo partner for my stalker or a third for a trio, I'll jump at the opportunity to invite a dom.
That's an old story though. Scrappers complained about how hard-done by they were on teams for ages. Then it was blasters that weren't needed. Controllers have gone through that stage. Nowadays, CoH teams are pretty balanced. CoV is still working on it, with stalkers and doms at the bottom of the heap at present.
[ QUOTE ]
Ice/dark Necro/dark necro/ta Dark/dark and other controllery MM's and corruptors arent going anywhere. They give up damage for that control, but they still do more damage than dominators.
Heck any MM can outdamage any pre pet dominator by a large margin and even post pet dominators by a moderate.
Necro/dark and Necro/ta have some really good control. And much of it soft like tar patch and glue which werent nerfed to heck in the controller nerf.
Dominators are in a bad place compared to the controllerMM's and cor's.
[/ QUOTE ]
their control is very questionable. The recharge and activation times for ice/dark are horrible in comparison to dominators.
[ QUOTE ]
Do dominators suck?
[/ QUOTE ]
Depends upon who you ask. Some people (like myself) don't think Doms suck and have been able to play a Dominator extremely successfully and do get a lot team invites.
[ QUOTE ]
Are they fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, this depends upon who you ask. Me I have lots of fun with my Dominator. I tried out a Brute, MM, and Corruptor when COV launched before I tried out a Dominator. Now my Dominator is my main and I have more fun with him than the other ATs.
As I like to say not all ATs are made for everyone and what I don't get is someone who spends all this time leveling a Toon and just gripe and complain about it all the way when there are 4 other ATs that might fit them better.
[ QUOTE ]
Why do people say they arent good?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because Dominators do have holes. With a combination of both Low Damage and Low HP and Holds that are about 80% of those are controllers, some people find that to be problem. Others of us have been able to overcoming those shortcomings and play a Dominator successful. The 1 MAJOR problem with Dominators IMO are AV fights with the Purple Triangles up. It is near impossible to hold an AV when the Triangles are up.
IMO several of these issues can be easily fixed. Either give us holds that Equal Controllers or Increase the Damage equal to or close to that of Corruptors. On the AV issue, IMO a Dominator should have a far greater chance of holding an AV when the purple triangles are up and all other ATs have zero. Maybe our accuracy is cut in half or the hold duration is cut in half when the AV has Purple Triangles ups. I'm totally against Permheld but I think Dominators needs a better than average chance of holding an AV.
I think just making some simple tweaks will resolve a majority of the issues with Dominators.
[ QUOTE ]
Ice/dark Necro/dark necro/ta Dark/dark and other controllery MM's and corruptors arent going anywhere. They give up damage for that control, but they still do more damage than dominators.
Heck any MM can outdamage any pre pet dominator by a large margin and even post pet dominators by a moderate.
Necro/dark and Necro/ta have some really good control. And much of it soft like tar patch and glue which werent nerfed to heck in the controller nerf.
Dominators are in a bad place compared to the controllerMM's and cor's.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is one of my complaints as well. I think /Dark set is too powerful. It basically gives them everything! AoE heal, great auto debuffs, defense buff from Shadow, Hold, Fear, Phase Shift AND another Pet. sigh....
I feel /Dark is very overpowering for MM. /Dark on Corruptor is alright.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Thanks for the replies. Thats kind of what i thought about them. Devs are good at ignoring every1 btw, even if there own missions are bugged....bastar.ds
[ QUOTE ]
I have a feeling Dominator is the hardest to balance of all.
Hold effect is the nastiest thing in this game. You cannot do ANYTHING when behing Held. That's as strong effect as you can get. How much balance do you need to allow Dominator to control in PvP? How fast do you allow Dom to build up their Domination?
PvP's problem has bigger issue due to Inspirations so I am not going to get into that.
But as for PvE, I only feel a bit inferior when fighting against Arc Villains but once I HOLD them, I feel so superb.. only if it's a few seconds of fame.
One thing they can probably do is to increase Domination gain when fighting against bosses. This way Doms can build up their Dom faster and thus dealing out more damage even though they fail to hold/control.
[/ QUOTE ]
Jib thats a really excellent point. Holds are the absolute ultimate debuff.
[ QUOTE ]
Do dominators suck?
Are they fun?
Why do people say they arent good?
[/ QUOTE ]
People often think of us as "evil Controllers" even after CoV has been out for so long. We are meant to truly dominate single targets and help with a mob. In that respect we are a true force of destruction (PvP and certain AV's not withstanding.)
Controllers are supposed to control then battlefield with a combination of the mezz attacks and buff/debuffing capabilities. We are supposed to take a smaller portion and eliminate the threat from that area/critter.
As for fun, I leveled my Stalker to 40, my Brute to 20 then my Corr to 34 before I ever got aroung to trying a Dom (I even tried a couple of MM's -- not my cup of tea personally.) My Dom will be the first to hit 50 by a long shot. He is by far the most fun character I have, CoH included.
We could use some more help from the devs to bring us up in power but overall, I can solo very effectively because I can plan ever encounter and travel at my own pace. On teams, if the team lets me take the point and lead, I have a blast. Dealing with teammates that don't plan and rush headlong into danger isn't easy for my playstyle.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a feeling Dominator is the hardest to balance of all.
Hold effect is the nastiest thing in this game. You cannot do ANYTHING when behing Held. That's as strong effect as you can get. How much balance do you need to allow Dominator to control in PvP? How fast do you allow Dom to build up their Domination?
PvP's problem has bigger issue due to Inspirations so I am not going to get into that.
But as for PvE, I only feel a bit inferior when fighting against Arc Villains but once I HOLD them, I feel so superb.. only if it's a few seconds of fame.
One thing they can probably do is to increase Domination gain when fighting against bosses. This way Doms can build up their Dom faster and thus dealing out more damage even though they fail to hold/control.
[/ QUOTE ]
Jib thats a really excellent point. Holds are the absolute ultimate debuff.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is precisely why they are so easy to counter.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ice/dark Necro/dark necro/ta Dark/dark and other controllery MM's and corruptors arent going anywhere. They give up damage for that control, but they still do more damage than dominators.
Heck any MM can outdamage any pre pet dominator by a large margin and even post pet dominators by a moderate.
Necro/dark and Necro/ta have some really good control. And much of it soft like tar patch and glue which werent nerfed to heck in the controller nerf.
Dominators are in a bad place compared to the controllerMM's and cor's.
[/ QUOTE ]
their control is very questionable. The recharge and activation times for ice/dark are horrible in comparison to dominators.
[/ QUOTE ]
I tend to agree with this. Sure my Ice/Dark Corr can control a mob and take them out, but I can still out control a mob with my Dom everytime (Of course Doms aren't controllers so get off this train.)
I made a dominator a while ago, he was fun and did pretty good. I know doms arent as good as trollers but i keep hearing that all doms are gimp and suck and stuff. Is this realy true? I always find a need for em. I dont plan on lvl'ing up a dom, i just came here to ask what the fuss is about. I ihave nothing against dominators because i always find them useful So i'm asking
Do dominators suck?
Are they fun?
Why do people say they arent good?
very curious, what do u guys think?