Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
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I don't find [domination downtime] particularly long either, but by comparison, if we use your number that assume you've got it up every three fights you're still only running at maximum effectiveness 33% of the time. Not great.
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Where are you getting 33%? I said that I typically fight with domination up for two fights, down for three, not one out of three.
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For example, last night I took a team in to the mission where you rescue Wretch in the sewers. Team fell apart by the end leaving myself and a MM. I died on a spawn, so there went Domination. Next group had two bosses.
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It sounds like you were duoing a spawn for a team of four or more. It's not surprising that you had trouble with it, but why blame your AT? With a team actually appropriate for the spawn size, it should've been easy, with Seeds of Confusion helping out significantly. Did you have similar troubles before you tried to tackle two bosses without backup? Dominators are not boss-killers, but that's not a problem unless you mistakenly expect them to fill that role.
Seriously, what's the point in this complaint? That doms suck when you're fighting an oversized spawn with a crappy MM player as your only backup? Well, duh.
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Dominators are not boss-killers
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My Dominator is a Boss-Killer.... 
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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We just cant defend teams the way controllers can.
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That should come as no surprise, since controllers have two support powersets.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
Show-off!
More seriously, my dominator is pretty good against bosses when Domination is running, but I personally prefer blowing away the minions and lieutenants while tougher folks take out the bosses.
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I made a dominator a while ago, he was fun and did pretty good. I know doms arent as good as trollers but i keep hearing that all doms are gimp and suck and stuff. Is this realy true? I always find a need for em. I dont plan on lvl'ing up a dom, i just came here to ask what the fuss is about. I ihave nothing against dominators because i always find them useful So i'm asking
Do dominators suck?
Are they fun?
Why do people say they arent good?
very curious, what do u guys think?
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You pretty much got the gamut of opinions above this post and below your original one. Just keep in mind that they're all opinions. The closest to a consensus that we all can come to is that some change would be desirable. Heck, I even listed down my top five priorities for Dominator change in one thread. Trouble is we can't agree on what or how much. Add in the shared propaganda that there are only two factions of Dominator player (pro-dom and anti-dom) and well, we're sort of sitting here debating once again in a Dominator thread that has the word 'suck' in it. Really wish you'd come up with a different title. Ah well.
A guide to the deranged, degraded inhabitants of the forums.
That was what I was saying, I should have mentioned "recharge", yes longer recharge on dark's hold.
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The closest to a consensus that we all can come to is that some change would be desirable. Heck, I even listed down my top five priorities for Dominator change in one thread.
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Hm, what are my top five dominator wishes? In no particular order:
1. A little more health would be nice.
2. Another damage bump would be nice, maybe 80/70 or 75/75.
3. Rein in control powers in other ATs, especially in PVP.
4. Change AV status protection to a happier medium between fighting statues and stripping our active defenses. Heck, I wouldn't mind fighting statues; I'm used to it.
5. Ban the "dominators suck" forum trolls.
Heck, I'll break rules and reprint:
<ul type="square">Blaster-level health
Damage increase to flat 70% BI
Defeat leaves Domination untouched
Endurance reduction in secondary
Endurance reduction in primary[/list]Looks like our first two priorities match. Imagine that. 
A guide to the deranged, degraded inhabitants of the forums.
Ooh, I was going to mention the "defeat leaves domination untouched" thing myself, but I forgot. Hm, not sure which wishlist item I'd drop to make room, though.
Then again, if defeat didn't empty the bar, it wouldn't be much different from a normal click power for me. It's rare that I can't refill the bar in time, especially in PVP. If they made that change, they might as well drop the bar entirely; the only thing it'd accomplish is emptying the bar when traveling between missions or playing with lousy PUGs.
Actually, I feel my Dominator only shines when fighting against bosses that I can hold.
I am sure all the other ATs can handle minions but if I can hold the boss even just for a few seconds, I feel my Dom has done his job. I need Domination on to do that...
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Dominators are not boss-killers
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My Dominator is a Boss-Killer....
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Bosses are my Dominator's specialty: I eat them for lunch.
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The closest to a consensus that we all can come to is that some change would be desirable. Heck, I even listed down my top five priorities for Dominator change in one thread.
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Hm, what are my top five dominator wishes? In no particular order:
1. A little more health would be nice.
2. Another damage bump would be nice, maybe 80/70 or 75/75.
3. Rein in control powers in other ATs, especially in PVP.
4. Change AV status protection to a happier medium between fighting statues and stripping our active defenses. Heck, I wouldn't mind fighting statues; I'm used to it.
5. Ban the "dominators suck" forum trolls.
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Add in fixing at least one of the triple whammies our AoE holds suffer from - hefty accuracy penalty, short base duration, ridiculously long recharge.
That, and #5 on your list, would be wonderful.
I think the main problem or the main feeling of inferiority comes from when we cannot hold the foe successfully. What else can we do to stand out more? Damage-wise, we are doing so-so damage without Domination which takes time to build. Defense-wise, we are like on the bottom of the list. Debuff/buff-wise, we are one of the worst.
So, when we cannot hold/control, how can this AT shows its secondary nature power on the team?
I feel Dom needs health/defense boost at least. We have powers that require us to be in melee range but we don't have the survivability for it. When fighting elite bosses, I don't even dare to get close to him unless he is held.
What about our secondary defense? It's absolutely NIGHTMARE when I solo and I get held/stunned by a boss. I am done without Breakfrees. Other melee ATs have resistance/protection against secondary effects to make sure they can stay in melee but not Doms. We have almost no defense against secondary effects and primary effects (damage). This is a huge problem when we cannot control.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
"Blaster-level health
Damage increase to flat 70% BI
Defeat leaves Domination untouched
Endurance reduction in secondary
Endurance reduction in primary"
I'd push the BI to 75%, but otherwards, I'm all for this. It addresses most of the weaker points and makes a more viable toon.
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Heroes - Mr. BoJangles, Boom-stick, GalacticCelt, Hap Hazard, Judas Cradle, Knotwork, Riddle of Flame, Archangel Lucius, Boomerang, Mrs. BoJangles
Villains - Mike Brady
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5. Ban the "dominators suck" forum trolls.
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One thing I've noticed in life is that people who have confidence in the truth and validity of their views do not generally feel the need to suppress the views of others.
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Add in fixing at least one of the triple whammies our AoE holds suffer from - hefty accuracy penalty, short base duration, ridiculously long recharge.
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Yep, that was another good candidate that I forgot about while editing. I think I'd be happiest with faster recharge, although longer duration is a close second for the AOE hold.
And to 515A: I don't mind you stating your opinion. Once. Politely.
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It seems kind of off to factor in the inherents that way.
Scourge only kicks in 12.5% of the time, on average.
How often is a brute at max fury?
A stalker gets one critical every how many hits?
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Which is exactly my point. The other AT's don't need their inherents to function, regardless of how often or not they kick in or how good they are. They're just icing on the cake.
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I don't find [domination downtime] particularly long either, but by comparison, if we use your number that assume you've got it up every three fights you're still only running at maximum effectiveness 33% of the time. Not great.
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Where are you getting 33%? I said that I typically fight with domination up for two fights, down for three, not one out of three.
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My mistake. I misread your statement. So let's bump it up 7% to 40%, shall we? But using it contstantly like that is a gamble unless you know you're not going to have to deal with bosses. If you run into a situation like the one I listed and you don't have access to Domination, you're done.
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For example, last night I took a team in to the mission where you rescue Wretch in the sewers. Team fell apart by the end leaving myself and a MM. I died on a spawn, so there went Domination. Next group had two bosses.
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It sounds like you were duoing a spawn for a team of four or more. It's not surprising that you had trouble with it, but why blame your AT? With a team actually appropriate for the spawn size, it should've been easy, with Seeds of Confusion helping out significantly. Did you have similar troubles before you tried to tackle two bosses without backup? Dominators are not boss-killers, but that's not a problem unless you mistakenly expect them to fill that role.
Seriously, what's the point in this complaint? That doms suck when you're fighting an oversized spawn with a crappy MM player as your only backup? Well, duh.
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Aside from my usual one-lt.-per-spawn-without-SoC, no, I wasn't having any exceptional trouble until that point.
My problem is not that I couldn't kill the bosses. I understand that it would have been of marginal difficulty for any two AT's to tackle two bosses at once. My problem is that I contributed nothing. The damage I poured on the bosses before they glared at me and I spontaneously combusted was pitiful.
A Corruptor could have healed, buffed, or debuffed and probably still done more damage.
A Brute probably would have survived the encounter outright as long as he didn't have both bosses wailing on him simultaneously, and could have at least pounded a sizeable amount of damage into one of the bosses if not killed him outright before he had to retreat.
With as shoddily as this MM was built/conducting his pets/managing aggro my Stalker probably would have had to retreat, but not without doing mentionable damage beforehand. With a good MM he could have been in there the whole fight.
Another MM would have made it a breeze.
So why on earth would I want to have a Dominator as my partner in that situation if I was the MM? Other than cannon fodder, I certainly can't present one.
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It seems kind of off to factor in the inherents that way.
Scourge only kicks in 12.5% of the time, on average.
How often is a brute at max fury?
A stalker gets one critical every how many hits?
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Which is exactly my point. The other AT's don't need their inherents to function, regardless of how often or not they kick in or how good they are. They're just icing on the cake.
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I don't see dominators as being any different.
In fact, with regard to reliance on the inherent, I'd say stalkers and brutes "need" them far more.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
The main thing I'd like the developers to look at for Doms are the ppp's. I feel they really got the short end of the stick here 
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
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The main thing I'd like the developers to look at for Doms are the ppp's. I feel they really got the short end of the stick here
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I agree that if other ATs got the stuff they were lacking, Doms should have too.
A guide to the deranged, degraded inhabitants of the forums.
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The main thing I'd like the developers to look at for Doms are the ppp's. I feel they really got the short end of the stick here
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Even with Ball Lightning in the set, Scirroco's Patron Pool is still pretty good for Dominators. Mako's seems to have a lot of fans as well.
That's the only really, really MAJOR mistake they made with Dominator patron sets I think: giving us more area effect damage. And not even particularly GOOD area effect damage. I can't say I like the pets being in the sets either, but I can see why some people might want them; I can't see why anyone would want Ball Lightning or it's like. In fact, almost anything else would have been preferable to it, even another single target hold.
Why couldn't there have been an option for mez protection like controllers get, or a buff of some sort. Those are things that would really help round out alot of dominators.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
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Why couldn't there have been an option for mez protection like controllers get, or a buff of some sort. Those are things that would really help round out alot of dominators.
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I really, really get the feeling they hate what Controllers have become, and are very paranoid about sending Dominators down the same route in any way.
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The other AT's don't need their inherents to function ....
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I'd like to see you say that with a straight face to brute, stalker, and tanker players.
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My problem is not that I couldn't kill the bosses. I understand that it would have been of marginal difficulty for any two AT's to tackle two bosses at once. My problem is that I contributed nothing.
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First, I'm confident that "nothing" is an exaggeration. Second, I still don't see any point in complaining about how well a character contributes to a nigh-impossible fight. Game balance is tough enough without worrying about pathological cases. Sorry, but I'm not going to take that kind of argument seriously. If you want to talk about troubles with normal encounters, or even if you want to argue that the "pathological" cases come up all too often, that's cool, but I'm not going to worry about how well a dominator contributes to scenario that's already broken for other reasons.
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I made a dominator a while ago, he was fun and did pretty good. I know doms arent as good as trollers but i keep hearing that all doms are gimp and suck and stuff. Is this realy true? I always find a need for em. I dont plan on lvl'ing up a dom, i just came here to ask what the fuss is about. I ihave nothing against dominators because i always find them useful So i'm asking
Do dominators suck?
Are they fun?
Why do people say they arent good?
very curious, what do u guys think?
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Oftentimes, people say we suck in hopes that the devs will give us some love where we need it. They try to make a mountain out of a molehill because, to them, "you have to make a problem look 100x worse than it is to get the devs to fix it."
The bigger reason a lot of people say we suck is we could do with some generous tweaks and buffs here and there, because we are a _tad_ less powerful than everyone else--we are balanced around Domination, which makes us a bit underpowered some of the time and slightly overpowered the rest of the time. Not many people like that, including myself, but I still love Domination. I just think we need to be made so we're not as weak when it's down. And having it up more often, like a loooooot of people wanted and got, hasn't solved that problem.
EDIT: Another big part of the "gimp" calls is a lot of people state we have "two secondaries" because Controllers get a Hold modifier of 1.25 and ours is only 1.00 (same as Defenders'), and our ranged modifier is the same as Defenders' (.65). In a way, I agree it shouldn't be like that. Even if the difference IS only two or three seconds, people underestimate how much a difference two seconds really is--with my Terrify power, it's only two seconds shy of being perma against +3 mobs with Acc/Acc/Duration/Duration/Recharge/Recharge slotting. Additionally, at level 50, Controllers' base duration bonus amounts to 4.5 seconds for the Single Target Hold--a 9 second increase when enhancements are factored in. Yes, that's pretty huge.
[waits for Shubbie to come in, stating that Plant is the only half decent set and all the others are gimptastic]
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You pretty much hit it right on the money. My main gripe with doms is that you have nothing to fall back on when holds fail. Some enemies are hold resistant, we can not rely on domination always being up and we have sucktastic damage. If we had better range damage than corrupters and gimped holds I can see it working for us. Or if we had uber holds all the time and gimped damage I can see it working for us. We just cant defend teams the way controllers can.
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