Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
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Having a level 50 is not a sufficient condition to be an expert in the game, but I think it is a necessary condition -- and a fairly minimal one at that.
[/ QUOTE ] Having a level 50 is a necessary condition to comment meaningfully on issues that only affect level 50's. And only that.
Issues of basic logic can be commented on by someone who hasn't played the game at all.
Issues that pop up before level 33 can be commented on by someone who is level 33.
You are welcome to think otherwise, but be careful to not construe it as anything but your own preference.
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Unfortunately, the person who demanded that others post their builds and tactics so that he could tell them what they were doing wrong did not say that he was going to restrict his comments to pre-level-33, or to the build that he has personal experience with. If he had, then I would not have had a problem with it. I just think it's silly, though, for a person to put themselves forth as an expert on build and tactics when they have been playing the game since 2004 and their highest char is level 33. If I were such a person, I'd be asking for advice, not presuming to offer it.
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lol who was it that said Ice slick is the only good power from the ice primary? 
Anyway, I've been playing my earth/rad and can see why some are disenchanted with doms. Namely, my earth/rad has powers in both the primary and secondary that can save my team. That said, my doms (at least in the early game) do well solo and on teams with my grav/psi being the weakest. With both controller and dom the primary usually enables me to significantly contribute to a team. But when you add triangles then of course the troller comes out ahead. My earth/emp does very good (probably great when I get RA) on teams but can't solo while my doms do good solo (with fire becoming great once I get the imps) and good on teams (again w/ grav being the weakest at least fmx). Hopefully I'll get a chance to play one of my uber controllers (gave up trying to lvl a cor due to lag) to further compare.
Anyway I wouldn't mind more control or damage but I'm pretty sure we won't get much at least not enough to change the minds of many anti-doms.
Back to lvling.
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Thanks, KL. That's exactly right.
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Bradd, thanks for clarifying that, based on your highest toon being level 33, you do not presume to offer build or tactics advice.
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OK, so what's the proprer procedure for reporting on-going character assassination?
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Thanks, KL. That's exactly right.
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Bradd, thanks for clarifying that, based on your highest toon being level 33, you do not presume to offer build or tactics advice.
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OK, so what's the proprer procedure for reporting on-going character assassination?
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PMing Cricket.
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Thanks, KL. That's exactly right.
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Bradd, thanks for clarifying that, based on your highest toon being level 33, you do not presume to offer build or tactics advice.
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OK, so what's the proprer procedure for reporting on-going character assassination?
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Don't go there, people in glass houses ...
FWIW I don't believe you can comment on whether an AT is gimped or not until you've played one or played a lot with one up to about 46 or 47 and got well into the 45-50 content.
I don't play high level doms myself, my highest is only 18, but I do have 3 50 controllers (so I understand the primaries) and 2 of my most regular team mates with my 50 brute are doms (ice/ice and plant/thorns, and the ice/ice guy has 2 other doms in the 40s), in both small and large teams. What I hear is that they loved their doms up to 40, thought they sucked a bit 40-45 and a lot more after 45. The reason - lots of purple triangles, end drain and stuns in the high level missions. It's not fun to know that solo, one miss on the wrong malta minion and you're dead unless you have a BF or they miss you. At least the equivalent controller could have some mez protection with the right EPP.
My perception is that in most teams they pull their weight, until you come up against purple triangles, at which point any other AT is better unless you need the immobs to stop them running away.
Also 3 MMs or 3 corruptors in a team of 8 are great, 3 doms not good, you'd be better with any non stalker (and even that's debatable) instead of the 3rd one for normal play.
My preferred solution to make doms more useful in the purple triangle zone and PvP (it's been suggested before) is to have more of the holds etc have a lingering effect if they don't actually manage to hold the target. Like the slow that some of the ice holds have, maybe fire could have an ongoing smoke effect for -acc and/or -per for example.
Suspect Device 18 fire/fire dom Protector
Ms Blizzard 50 ice/storm cont Freedom
Psycho Clown 50 ill/kin cont Freedom
Pleasure Demon 50 Fire/FF cont Freedom
Lucifer's Lieutenant 50 SS/Fire Brute Protector
and many others including 4 more 50s, none PLd
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
[/ QUOTE ] FWIW I don't believe you can comment on whether an AT is gimped or not until you've played one or played a lot with one up to about 46 or 47 and got well into the 45-50 content.
I don't play high level doms myself, my highest is only 18
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Dom's don't play like controllers so....yeah level 18 dom...firing ballista in glass house....
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FWIW I don't believe you can comment on whether an AT is gimped or not until you've played one or played a lot with one up to about 46 or 47 and got well into the 45-50 content.
I don't play high level doms myself, my highest is only 18
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Dom's don't play like controllers so....yeah level 18 dom...firing ballista in glass house....
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errr... all I saw were "observations" and "his perception" being offered. Why take issue with that? Neither have anything to do with what you tried to quote. /shrug
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[/ QUOTE ] FWIW I don't believe you can comment on whether an AT is gimped or not until you've played one or played a lot with one up to about 46 or 47 and got well into the 45-50 content.
I don't play high level doms myself, my highest is only 18
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Dom's don't play like controllers so....yeah level 18 dom...firing ballista in glass house....
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My pet hate is people who don't read stuff before flaming, as I then indicated that I do play alongside them a lot, I probably have 200 hours plus of playing at level 50 (ignoring all the time I spent getting there) with doms in my team, often more than one so I think I am reasonably placed to comment.
Minotaur
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
I've always hated this, If you're not 50 you can't comment stupidity. There's plenty of l50's who play their char badly, and just got PLed by their SG, and there's plenty of VERY good players who haven't had the time to actually make it to 50, or conversely are maybe leveling slowly to actually enjoy the content.
Just because my Main char is only l33, does not mean that I have no idea how Mesmerize works, or no feel for wether or not drain psyche is a valid replacement for Stamina.
And certainly, since most of what Bradd has done has been MATH and Calculus.. I really don't see how not being l50 makes any difference what so ever.
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I've always hated this, If you're not 50 you can't comment stupidity. There's plenty of l50's who play their char badly, and just got PLed by their SG, and there's plenty of VERY good players who haven't had the time to actually make it to 50, or conversely are maybe leveling slowly to actually enjoy the content.
Just because my Main char is only l33, does not mean that I have no idea how Mesmerize works, or no feel for wether or not drain psyche is a valid replacement for Stamina.
And certainly, since most of what Bradd has done has been MATH and Calculus.. I really don't see how not being l50 makes any difference what so ever.
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/signed
Yeah, you've got to just love the "If you're not a level 50 then your opinions and experiences mean nothing" rubbish. More elitist wankery at its best. I agree with ShrikeX on one point--this thread needs to die already. It started out as a splendid discussion with strong insight and opinions, now it's degenerated into the usual verbal fracas, with lines and ideas drawn (good and bad and ubsurd) like guns on the battlefield, with madmen (and women) pulling the triggers like the good soldiers that we are.
So, do doms suck like people say they do? No. But then again, they do need love. What kind of love? That's even a better question, made more complicated by the natural human tendency for people never to completely gather a simple consensus (or something close to it), for people who haven't a clue how to say what they mean clearly, and by those who love a good old fashioned flame war. There are other complications, but there's not enough time to explain, and I don't rightfully care anymore (okay, that last part's a joke).
What do doms need? Less end intensive secondaries. A tad bit more damage in ranged attacks (how much...haven't a clue, and I'm not self-styled mathematician). And yes, as I posted it before (somewhere...I don't remember), 25-30% containment--all we have to defend ourselves with is our potent active defense...with minimal debuffs. Domination is fine, and quite fantastic now, with Posi's news of mez protection.
/rant over
I need a beer...off to the pub then. I'm on the other side of the world on holiday...and I missed the double XP weekend. 'shrug'
Psyphon lvl 50 Mind/Psy/Psy Dom Freedom
'Healer' dependency is like filling a car with airbags instead of having a seatbelt. -- Lady Sadako
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FWIW I don't believe you can comment on whether an AT is gimped or not until you've played one or played a lot with one up to about 46 or 47 and got well into the 45-50 content.
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another flavor of "STUF NOOB".
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Yeah, you've got to just love the "If you're not a level 50 then your opinions and experiences mean nothing" rubbish. More elitist wankery at its best. I agree with ShrikeX on one point--this thread needs to die already. It started out as a splendid discussion with strong insight and opinions, now it's degenerated into the usual verbal fracas, with lines and ideas drawn (good and bad and ubsurd) like guns on the battlefield, with madmen (and women) pulling the triggers like the good soldiers that we are.
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One thing that would help keep threads from degenerating into flames would be for people not to exaggerate/take out of context what others have said.
Another thing that would help would be for people not defend someone who agrees with them, no matter what errors that person has made, simply because they are in the same "camp."
That's good advice. You should take it.
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Thanks, KL. That's exactly right.
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Bradd, thanks for clarifying that, based on your highest toon being level 33, you do not presume to offer build or tactics advice.
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OK, so what's the proprer procedure for reporting on-going character assassination?
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PMing Cricket.
[/ QUOTE ]I can vouch for this being the correct course of action. The sooner you report people for TOS violations the sooner they are dealt with.
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Another thing that would help would be for people not defend someone who agrees with them, no matter what errors that person has made, simply because they are in the same "camp."
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Careful, your hypocrisy is starting to show. Given your long history of defending/ignoring/justifying anyone whose opinion is similar to yours, regardless of how egregious their errors or misbehaviors, while constantly complaining about similar behavior from people whose opinions run counter to your own, I'm not sure whether to find the above post funny, ironic or sad.
Kid Lazarus, 50 empath Defender
Freek, 50 mind/psi Dominator
Black Khopesh, 43 db/wp Scrapper
Circuit-Boy, 40 elec Brute
Graf von Eisenfaust, 38 db/wp Brute
Blue Banshee, 35 sonic Blaster
Blood Countess, 33 mind/storm Controller
Dr. Radon, 32 rad Corruptor
Phantom Pirate, 32 db/wp Stalker
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Another thing that would help would be for people not defend someone who agrees with them, no matter what errors that person has made, simply because they are in the same "camp."
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Careful, your hypocrisy is starting to show. Given your long history of defending/ignoring/justifying anyone whose opinion is similar to yours, regardless of how egregious their errors or misbehaviors, while constantly complaining about similar behavior from people whose opinions run counter to your own, I'm not sure whether to find the above post funny, ironic or sad.
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This accusation surprises me -- would you care to provide an example (actual quotes, please) of any case at all where I have "defended" or "justified" someone who is guilty of "egregious errors or misbehaviors"? Since you say I have a "long history" of doing this, surely you can come up with some examples? If not, you owe me an apology.
I plead guilty to sometimes "ignoring" things -- including all the flames that are directed my way, to which I do not respond in kind.
Yes dominators suck and so does everyone that has posted on this crappy 92 page flame war.
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This accusation surprises me -- would you care to provide an example (actual quotes, please) of any case at all where I have "defended" or "justified" someone who is guilty of "egregious errors or misbehaviors"? Since you say I have a "long history" of doing this, surely you can come up with some examples? If not, you owe me an apology.
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And here's your "shocked martyr" routine. You must have a patent on this.
I have no intention of wading through your countless posts to prove something; if you take that as justification that I am wrong, so be it. Every time someone comes into this forum and causes an uproar with their rude or inflammatory posts about the failings of this AT, you are inevitably the first to defend them on the grounds that only their message matters, not how they express it. You are also the first to complain about anyone who uses similar tactics in favor of Dominators. If you fail to see your own double standard, you are either clueless about your behavior or utterly disingenuous.
Kid Lazarus, 50 empath Defender
Freek, 50 mind/psi Dominator
Black Khopesh, 43 db/wp Scrapper
Circuit-Boy, 40 elec Brute
Graf von Eisenfaust, 38 db/wp Brute
Blue Banshee, 35 sonic Blaster
Blood Countess, 33 mind/storm Controller
Dr. Radon, 32 rad Corruptor
Phantom Pirate, 32 db/wp Stalker
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This accusation surprises me -- would you care to provide an example (actual quotes, please) of any case at all where I have "defended" or "justified" someone who is guilty of "egregious errors or misbehaviors"? Since you say I have a "long history" of doing this, surely you can come up with some examples? If not, you owe me an apology.
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And here's your "shocked martyr" routine. You must have a patent on this.
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Ah hah! I have been searching for what to call this little routine he does. "Shocked martyr" is very good. You get the bonus cookie for the day.
And no, I have absolutely nothing else to add.
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This accusation surprises me -- would you care to provide an example (actual quotes, please) of any case at all where I have "defended" or "justified" someone who is guilty of "egregious errors or misbehaviors"? Since you say I have a "long history" of doing this, surely you can come up with some examples? If not, you owe me an apology.
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And here's your "shocked martyr" routine. You must have a patent on this.
I have no intention of wading through your countless posts to prove something; if you take that as justification that I am wrong, so be it. Every time someone comes into this forum and causes an uproar with their rude or inflammatory posts about the failings of this AT, you are inevitably the first to defend them on the grounds that only their message matters, not how they express it. You are also the first to complain about anyone who uses similar tactics in favor of Dominators. If you fail to see your own double standard, you are either clueless about your behavior or utterly disingenuous.
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Yes, I do take that as justification that you are wrong. People who make true statements don't mind being asked to back them up.
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People who make true statements don't mind being asked to back them up.
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Please provide supporting evidence for this statement:
"Since doms have less damage than any other CoV AT, they live and die by whether a team needs a dom's control more than it needs what other ATs can provide."
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
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Yes, I do take that as justification that you are wrong. People who make true statements don't mind being asked to back them up.
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Even if I were inclined to spend my time wading through your posts to back up my statement, it would serve no purpose. You consistently demonstrate a refusal to admit when you are wrong and this very thread is proof of that. You blatantly twisted statements and motives from Bradd and, when proven that you were mistaken, you did what you always do -- shifted gears to avoid admitting you were in error. You're very fast at demanding apologies, yet I seemed to have missed your apology to Bradd.
You have long been the most disruptive poster on this forum; I have never seen another forum member, here or on any other message board, so consistently have conflicts with others. Any mature or rational person would, at some point, have a moment of self-reflection and wonder why. But, of course, you seem to feel it's always the other person causing the conflict while you stay in your long suffering victim mode.
Kid Lazarus, 50 empath Defender
Freek, 50 mind/psi Dominator
Black Khopesh, 43 db/wp Scrapper
Circuit-Boy, 40 elec Brute
Graf von Eisenfaust, 38 db/wp Brute
Blue Banshee, 35 sonic Blaster
Blood Countess, 33 mind/storm Controller
Dr. Radon, 32 rad Corruptor
Phantom Pirate, 32 db/wp Stalker
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People who make true statements don't mind being asked to back them up.
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Please provide supporting evidence for this statement:
"Since doms have less damage than any other CoV AT, they live and die by whether a team needs a dom's control more than it needs what other ATs can provide."
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I'd be happy to. Damage for doms is a secondary, whereas damage is a primary for every other CoV AT. Doms get their highest-damage powers very late -- witness Bitter Ice Blast, Blaze, and Psi Shockwave, none of which are available until level 38. There may be rare instances where a high-level dom that is specced for damage, such as, say, a level 45 Fire/Fire, can out-damage a corr that is specced purely for team support -- say a Dark/Rad that took all the /rad powers. A team leader isn't generally going to know the details of everyone's build, however, so the team leader has to go by the averages.
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Yes, I do take that as justification that you are wrong. People who make true statements don't mind being asked to back them up.
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Even if I were inclined to spend my time wading through your posts to back up my statement, it would serve no purpose. You consistently demonstrate a refusal to admit when you are wrong and this very thread is proof of that. You blatantly twisted statements and motives from Bradd and, when proven that you were mistaken, you did what you always do -- shifted gears to avoid admitting you were in error. You're very fast at demanding apologies, yet I seemed to have missed your apology to Bradd.
You have long been the most disruptive poster on this forum; I have never seen another forum member, here or on any other message board, so consistently have conflicts with others. Any mature or rational person would, at some point, have a moment of self-reflection and wonder why. But, of course, you seem to feel it's always the other person causing the conflict while you stay in your long suffering victim mode.
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I have asked you to provide some examples from my previous posts of what you are talking about. Since you won't do so, all I can say is that I have no idea of what you mean.
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People who make true statements don't mind being asked to back them up.
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"Since doms have less damage than any other CoV AT, they live and die by whether a team needs a dom's control more than it needs what other ATs can provide."
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Yes please back that statement up because quite honestly I think you're a total liar. I've never had a problem getting on teams. Maybe you just have bad luck or a bad reputation as a crappy dom. 
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This thread seriously needs to be locked. No one is saying anything new...
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I agree, Plant Dominators are gimp and anyone who plays one is a fool.