Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My opinion?
Better performance outside of Domination.
More damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Been done, didnt change anything. Need more? Do you significanly contribute to teams if you use red inspirations, but dont when you dont use them? Its the same thing as a damage boost for the AT. My answer is, I dont see a 5% or 10% damage boost doing anything for us in teams, and making soloing a little easier, which is more than easy enough for me already.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but I'm crazy. I want Blaster base damage for melee and range, not a piddly little 5% boost. If Dominators can (in theory, not factoring in debuffs and buffs and such) outdamage Corruptors, then PuGs can say - 'we need more damage, let's grab a Dominator'. THAT would make an impact on the teaming situation. Would it be a big one? I dunno.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
More HP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Makes you better on a team how, exactly? I have an accolade that gives me a 10% boost. Its made no difference. I have seen posts from others with a 15% or more boost, makes no difference (per their post). Unless we have a boost to allow us to take the alpha, I dont see this changing any complaints at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I rather agree with this, I just put it up because it's something other people frequently ask for. Personally, I don't see increased HP doing much either, unless as you said it's a very big boost.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Controller mez duration.
[/ QUOTE ]
We already have much better durations and mags than a corruptor, but still have claims that corrutors have ENOUGH control and so are better than doms. Well, same arguement here. Doms have more than enough control. Adding a little more will make the AOE holds a little better when unslotted, and the rest will be unnoticable (IMO).
[/ QUOTE ]
That one was mostly for PvP - especially since Power Boost (did I mention Controllers seem to get better numbers out of Power Boost, too?) works off base mez duration and two of the five Dominator secondaries get it. I think it'd give a Dominator a better chance of killing a mezzed foe before the mez wears off, and let them stack through mez protection outside of Domination easier.
[ QUOTE ]
I do think the AOE holds recharge is too long, as its up for one or two times/mission, and should be up more than that (IMO), considering that if you slot it three recharge, the duration would be pitiful.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not quite so pronounced with Power Boost, but yeah. Mainly I rely on Terrify for AoE control on teams as Total Domination and Mass Confusion are rarely up when I need them.
The problem is how to change the times on AoE controls without (further) overpowering Controllers.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Better numbers from the Leadership pool.
[/ QUOTE ]
Give us the best numbers, and still assault, tactics and manuvers are pitiful. This is like the same control as controllers, its more an irritation from trying to see why the devs did it, than really getting anything out of it.
[/ QUOTE ]
A +19% damage boost is pitiful? Have you ever been on a team where everyone is running Assault? It's quite noticable. Plus, a lot of the LRSF strategies now seem to rely on Vengance, so better numbers with that certainly couldn't hurt.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Better PPPs. I think it's already too late on this one, but it still needs to be said. Specifically, I'd like to see Dominators get access to the broadly useful Controller APP powers like Hibernate, Earth's Embrace, and Indomitable Will, as well as see Build Up in one or more of the pool. As is, they get very few utility powers in the 40+ game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agree with this for the most part. I like water spout, and I like the armor I have, but its not as good as some possible power combos (IW would have been nice, heals, etc). Still, I have liked the Mako PPP more than I thought I would.
[/ QUOTE ]
My Corruptor is quite fond of Power Sink, and I think it'll be even better with Power Boost on my Dominator. But still.
[ QUOTE ]
The problem is how to change the times on AoE controls without (further) overpowering Controllers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Based on how they individually tweaked the Toggle Dropping capabilities of some powers that mulitiple ATs have, like Total Focus, I don't think we should assume that our Control Primaries can't be chanced without the same change affecting Controllers.
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do think the AOE holds recharge is too long, as its up for one or two times/mission, and should be up more than that (IMO), considering that if you slot it three recharge, the duration would be pitiful.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not quite so pronounced with Power Boost, but yeah. Mainly I rely on Terrify for AoE control on teams as Total Domination and Mass Confusion are rarely up when I need them.
The problem is how to change the times on AoE controls without (further) overpowering Controllers.
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought this was worth talking about in particular.
This is an important point. Controllers are all ready SO good at team support that making THEIR area controls better would be boarderline retarded; they don't need buffs of any variety. In fact, they probably need to be weakened.
But Dominators share the same skills, so how can we improve Dominators without overpowering Controllers further? The answer is simple: skills of the same name need not function the same way for different ARchetypes that share them. Ice Armor Tankers and Icy Assault Dominators both have Chilling Embrace. The Ice Armor version has -Speed, -Recharge, -Damage. The Dominator version has only -Speed, -Recharge, and it's -Speed and -Recharge are if memory serves stronger than the Tanker version. Same skill, different effects and different levels of power within those effects.
I see no reason why this could not be adopted here, with Dominator area controls being changed while leaving Controller area controls the same. Controllers have both control AND buff/debuff/heal powers to defend theri teams, while Dominators have ONLY control. I don't think it would necessarily be a sin, as such, if our area control powers were up more OFTEN than they currently are. Powers like Terrify, Mass Hypnosis, and so forth are totally fine how they are. Powers like Total Domination, Mass Confusion, and so forth could probably have their recharges reduced for Dominators without it being ridiculously overpowered. Short native durations, miss rates, and target caps will still keep them in line, particularly given the Dominator has no debuffs or buffs to back them up with.
[ QUOTE ]
A +19% damage boost is pitiful? Have you ever been on a team where everyone is running Assault? It's quite noticable. Plus, a lot of the LRSF strategies now seem to rely on Vengance, so better numbers with that certainly couldn't hurt.
[/ QUOTE ]
My defender has it, but I know they changed its effect since the last I checked, is it 19%? I think the smallest red inspiration is 25% isnt it?
It sure doesnt seem noticable when solo on my defender, but then, I think it used to ~10% or so, and I may still be thinking of that. Now, its always been true that a 6 + member team with all the leadership powers rocked, with its defense boosted high and extra damage and then vengance on top. However, most of the time, the one person with the leadership pool is on his own, and so the boosts were pretty low (in PUGs). Of course, some VG/SGs require people to take leadership, which means their teams are strongly boosted as these powers are additive.
I will say, for any toon, vengance rocks. I could see taking leadership pool powers with the idea of making yourself team useful, but aid other and assault will only bring what any toon with them would bring.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whether or not a dom can "out-control" a corruptor is irrelevant because a corruptor can provide enough control.
Consider brutes. A granite brute can tank the entire last mission of the RSF. Personally, while I consider that to be clearly "out-controlling" a dominator, all that matters is that it's enough control. So... are brutes overpowered as well?
[/ QUOTE ]
A granite brute can tank WITH THE SUPPORT OF MANY CORRUPTORS. I think this is a vitally important point. I think a LRSF with 1 corruptor would fail even if it had all the remaining members were granite brutes. First, in granite form brutes dont do great damage (DPS is low actually). Second, they still cant solo tank an AV, much less 5 AVs. I know this because granite TANKS cant do it, so its clear the brute is weaker. However, with corruptor support, they can tank it and so can other brutes (just not as well).
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course it requires support to tank 7 AV's with a brute. It's a team sport though. I'm not sure which tankers you've seen that can't tank an AV, but I can tank Statesman and Back Alley Brawler with no buffs or heals indefinitely. If Citadel is on me I'll need an occasional heal. If those three plus Positron are on me, I have to make sure I have buffs.
I'm not guestimating, this is a fact. So, WITHOUT THE SUPPORT OF MANY CORRUPTORS - unless you consider Speedboost, ID and some therm shields as an inconceivable investment - I can permanently take half of the mobs out of the battle. Add in demonic, nukes/shivans etc and the rest is pretty easy. Who cares about my DPS when 7 AV's are beating on me instead of my team?
Even so, I think you missed my point and I'll take the blame for that because I think I could have made it better.
I was trying to demonstrate that the only capabilities that matter are the ones that are needed for success. If there's two bosses, and the team can handle one at a time but not two, a dom is not the best possible choice simply because it could hold both. I was also poking fun at the trend where the pro-dom opinion seems to have shifted from "we're fine, learn to play, if you'd rather have a corruptor than me you're a noob" to "corruptors are overpowered, nerf triangles" without ever stopping at "dominators have some problems that need to be adressed"
If you try to discuss the subject reasonably people take it as either a personal attack or an opportunity to proclaim how great they are because they can solo some arbitrary obscure situation that occurs at most in .01% of typical gameplay.
As someone who enjoys playing a dominator very much but has trouble dealing with the fact that it is just simply not very good, I'm tired of reading post after post from people who refuse to admit something is wrong with this AT when you put it on a team.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't think of a single situation in the game where a dominator is a better choice for a teammate than a corruptor (except for stalker heavy teams), but for months trying to get that point out on these forums got me hate-mail.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hard to believe you got any mail at all about this (prob just people posting that disagreed with you), but I consider this hyperbole.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wish it were.
Someone named Red_Tape sent me this (cut and pasted right out of my mailbox):
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry you don't know how to play in a team setting. Sorry you've had a bad run of bad daminators and masterminds. I'm not sorry that you're a pompus [censored]. /ignored.
[/ QUOTE ]
well, I guess he won't notice that I've pointed this out then. 
[ QUOTE ]
Other than AVs, a dom can completely 100% mitigate any damage at all from anything else in the game (bosses take ~7 seconds instead of 1 second).
[/ QUOTE ]
What if RSF's last mish were 8 EB's? Triangles aren't the problem with dominators. I wholeheartedly agree that the triangle mechanism is foolish but to pretend that if they went away or were modified in some sort of way to benefit control functions that suddenly dominators would be fine is naive at best.
[ QUOTE ]
I dont know if I can say a dom is a BETTER choice, but most of the time they are as good as choice. Powers such as ice slick, seeds of confusion, mostly remove the need for healing (no incoming damage) and are better than debuffing, unless there are multiple corruptors on the team. Corruptors stack better than other ATs, which is why they are so good in the LRSF.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think we just disagree on this point. My opinon is that debuffs and (some) buffs are better because they simply allow things to be killed faster. One of the major issues I see with dominators is similar to what controllers used to complain about long, long ago - the control isn't needed on a good team. It affects dominators more now than controllers because of the fact that controllers could also (de)buff. A control primary/damage secondary simply has no value in CoV where every other AT has a damge primary and some means of damage mitigation. The closest thing to a glass cannon in CoV is a stalker and I've said a number of times the single best PvE use I've come across for a dom is a stalker heavy team - both for the control and for the crit boost.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Corruptors are not overpowered. They have a role and they fulfill it. As do Brutes.
Dominators are underpowered. I wish they were not. But they are.
The RSF isn't an unfair encounter, it's simply a magnifying glass to show what the ATs are capable of.
I'm not trying to troll, I sincerely would like to see something changed - mostly the click-nature of the inherent - to make what is clearly a team-oriented AT useful in that scenario. But the reality is that currently, on a good 8-man team, a dominator adds exactly nothing. The fact that people are seeing this same problem in RSF is no surprise to me. The AT needs a boost. Badly.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, first, I can solo a large 8 man spawn with my AOE hold up on my dom (power boosted AOE hold, most dead before start cycling ST hold and laying down the slick).
[/ QUOTE ]
All that tells me is that Power Boost is handy and possibly belongs in every secondary if the aim is to solo 8 man spawns. It's in no way a testament to the overall team-effectiveness of dominators as an AT.
[ QUOTE ]
Its the multiple AVs, with their triangles, that really make a dom less useful, combined with the stacking of corruptors that make it better to just keep adding corruptors.
[/ QUOTE ]
I honestly think if the RSF were EBs a corruputor, brute, or MM would still be a better choice. Stalkers - I agree that there are some effectiveness issues in this type of encounter but I don't think the vast majority of people would get onboard the "stalkers are underpowered" bus. It's simply not the best situation for them, but as I've said before, I've seen the damage a stalker is capable of pumping out vs an AV (buffed of course) and it actually surprised me.
You make a good point about (de)buff stacking possibly being a bit unfair, but remember that hard control stacks too - and so do dominator debuffs. Personally I'd hate to see (de)buffing nerfed because it would take away from something that I really like about this game compared to other MMO's which is a reliance on a healer.
I probably ought to say - I personally think some doms add more to an encounter like RSF than they do to a typical 8-man mission because of their debuffs - specifically Ice/Psi/Thorns. I'd be interested to know how people who've heavily slotted the secondary effects of their attacks have fared.
I think the current debate about dom effectiveness (it seemed to have died down for a few months or so) is in large part due to the huge increase in triangles I7 has brought. Personally I think it's the pushing the debate in the wrong direction.
[ QUOTE ]
On an 8 man team, I easily carry my share and often more.
[/ QUOTE ]
In my experience, past the mid 20's or so the control becomes either redundant or....
[ QUOTE ]
Versus 8 AVs, I can easily see why I wouldnt carry my share. Even versus 1 AV, I dont consider myself to carry the share of the load I'm used to carrying.
[/ QUOTE ]
...insufficient
[ QUOTE ]
Its a problem caused by the decision to reduce the effectiveness of AOE holds and holds versus AVs (and players in PVP).
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally I think it's less an issue of holds and more an issue of soft control. I think if in a PvE environment soft control wasn't negated as much as it is now against AV's, things could be a bit brighter. I know personally on my grav my playstyle relied much more on wormhole than my AoE hold.
[ QUOTE ]
I heard that doms needed more damage when I first started playing one. They added melee damage, and no change at all in the complaints. They reduced domination cycle time, so it can be up more, still no reduction in complaints. Unless they change Doms to high damage and make us the COV version of blasters, I dont see damage boosts making us better team mates, nor does adding health (another running suggestion).
[/ QUOTE ]
IMO the problem is that the devs took an existing primary and secondary and combined them and tried to create an AT out of it. I love the idea of a melee-range control-type with blast-type damage. I do not think existing controller primary powersets and existing blaster primary powersets should have been the basis for creating it though.
[ QUOTE ]
Whatever the solution is, it has to address the lack of allowed controls vs AVs and in PVP.
[/ QUOTE ]
I will agree with you on the controls, with the caveat that soft controls to me seem to be the bigger issue than holds. I don't personally think I ought to be able to permanently hold an AV, but as a dominator I should be able to mitigate far more damage from it than I can currently do.
PvP... I'm really not that disappointed in how my dom functions in either solo or team PvP. Actually team PvP I think it's pretty solid. I didn't much care for the change to toggle dropping though. I do think status protection should not be linked to domination.
Ack, someone killed me in SC while I was afk at the base typing up that last post. I see your plan....... 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: just to add, yeah, i got hatemail in my inbox. blew my mind. I'm generally to the point but I don't try to troll. Suprised the hell out of me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, as someone often accused as a "prodomite", I have never PM'd anyone about a post. If I disagree I post why, but thats really as much so everyone seeing it can get the dissenting opinion, rather then for the sake of arguing.
I have gotten PMs from people who strongly disagreed with me, but even then, it was still trying to convince me of something, wasnt hate mail.
Sheesh. Sorry to hear that. 
[/ QUOTE ]
I turned off my mail a long time ago. There are many people in the forums that forget this is just a game and people have a right to express opinions that may different from their own. I've seen some people equate an attempt to improve a few game powers with promoting slavery and terrorism. Get a grip people.
[/ QUOTE ]
LMAo.. nice one
[ QUOTE ]
adding significant damage to the team.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well that's the problem! You've got to stop damaging your team!!!! 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and those who think they are useless against AV's when their triangles are up? Our secondaries are there for a reason you know - and they don't do such abysmal damage that it isn't worth hurling everything you've got at them. So what if the base modifier is slightly lower than other members of the team - with a nicely mixed team you should be doing very high damage anyway between all the buffs/debuffs that may well be flying around. Plus your pet(s) (if you have one) will happily pummel away at AV's too of course, adding significant damage to the team.
[/ QUOTE ]
OMG I hate this argument, whenever it comes up, so much I could spit...just did so I feel better.
I don't understand this mindset...THE GAME MECHANICS THAT NUKE CONTROL ARE STUPID! YOU SHOULDN'T JUST ACCEPT IT UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO JUST QUIT THE GAME AL TOGETHER.
No way we should just be happy to sit back and plink at the AV/Hero...no way. Not when every other AT gets to use their entire AT's abilites. No way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok enough beating around the bush, how do you really feel about it?
[ QUOTE ]
Ack, someone killed me in SC while I was afk at the base typing up that last post. I see your plan.......
[/ QUOTE ] Ah hah, the conspiracy worked!
ok. read that whole thing. you sum up your opinion of the problem very well. i would like to comment here tho:
[ QUOTE ]
What if RSF's last mish were 8 EB's? Triangles aren't the problem with dominators.
[/ QUOTE ]
on the surface i'd say you have a point, but then i thought "well, i bet a team of 8 doms could probably actually deal with 8 +4 EB's without the triangles..." and the hypothesis fell apart for me. i've been in situations were i've ended up being the one to solo the +4 EB without triangles (my duo partner DC'd) and won without dying.
Your Insanity May Vary...Triangles arent the problem...the jump from mag -4 to mag -49(at least) might be tho...
Triangles ARE part of the problem.
Psyphon lvl 50 Mind/Psy/Psy Dom Freedom
'Healer' dependency is like filling a car with airbags instead of having a seatbelt. -- Lady Sadako
[ QUOTE ]
Triangles ARE part of the problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
On the contrary, triangles are the simplest band instrument there is. 
A guide to the deranged, degraded inhabitants of the forums.
well triangles are just a representation of the jump from -4 to -49
If AV"s had a 12 or 16 mag .. and that was it. they would be hard to hold, but doable when multiple holders stacked. This SHOULD be fine...
[ QUOTE ]
If you try to discuss the subject reasonably people take it as either a personal attack or an opportunity to proclaim how great they are because they can solo some arbitrary obscure situation that occurs at most in .01% of typical gameplay.
As someone who enjoys playing a dominator very much but has trouble dealing with the fact that it is just simply not very good, I'm tired of reading post after post from people who refuse to admit something is wrong with this AT when you put it on a team.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you completely. The forum is much, much better than it was a few months ago, though, so there is some hope in that regard. Whether there is hope for doms will be up to the devs. And I say that as someone who loves my doms -- I just wish I could team with them without feeling like the weakest link.
[ QUOTE ]
I just wish I could team with them without feeling like the weakest link.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then post your build & tactics and ask for help. Given your extreme comments about controls and relative performance, it seems that you're having a harder time than most dominators. This suggests to me that either you're not playing effectively or you have unrealistic expectations. By asking for advice, rather than complaining about problems, you might actually be able to succeed at your stated goal. Even better, if it works, the turnaround will be much faster than waiting for the devs to change the game.
By the way, the same goes for everyone else who complains endlessly about dominators without asking for advice.
[ QUOTE ]
If you try to discuss the subject reasonably people take it as either a personal attack or an opportunity to proclaim how great they are because they can solo some arbitrary obscure situation that occurs at most in .01% of typical gameplay.
[/ QUOTE ]
Presumably, that was in response to my Ballista comment.
The *point* of that comment was to get you to clarify what you meant by "underpowered", to which I have not seen a response.
[ QUOTE ]
As someone who enjoys playing a dominator very much but has trouble dealing with the fact that it is just simply not very good, I'm tired of reading post after post from people who refuse to admit something is wrong with this AT when you put it on a team.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am sure there is an equal, if not greater, number of people who are "tired of reading post after post from people who refuse to admit that there are no serious problems with this AT when you put it on a team."
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just wish I could team with them without feeling like the weakest link.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really like my Dom. I got a lvl33 Gravity/Energy build and he is great fun. But as stated I do feel like the teams Ive been on could just as well do fine without me (its great 2b wanted or needed). I mean I go to hold bam corrupter just held boss. I got in to use my melee powers which are really good. Bam someone sniped baddie,lol.
Dom's are not as bad as people have said but they dont have clear rolls and sometimes they or I feel like a weak corrupter.
Anyone else feel this way.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just wish I could team with them without feeling like the weakest link.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then post your build & tactics and ask for help. Given your extreme comments about controls and relative performance, it seems that you're having a harder time than most dominators. This suggests to me that either you're not playing effectively or you have unrealistic expectations. By asking for advice, rather than complaining about problems, you might actually be able to succeed at your stated goal. Even better, if it works, the turnaround will be much faster than waiting for the devs to change the game.
By the way, the same goes for everyone else who complains endlessly about dominators without asking for advice.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I have posted my build for both of the doms I am currently playing (Fire/Ice and Plant/Psi) and I got many helpful comments. My doms solo just fine (altho slowly) and they do OK on small teams. The problems that doms have with large teams are not anything that can be cured by build advice, however. Just look around you at all the people who are saying the same thing I'm saying. And that's on the dom forum -- in the game at large you will find very few people who think doms measure up on large teams.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you try to discuss the subject reasonably people take it as either a personal attack or an opportunity to proclaim how great they are because they can solo some arbitrary obscure situation that occurs at most in .01% of typical gameplay.
[/ QUOTE ]
Presumably, that was in response to my Ballista comment.
The *point* of that comment was to get you to clarify what you meant by "underpowered", to which I have not seen a response.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't referencing your particular comment as it seemed no different than at least 30 other ones that were rampant a few months ago. However feel free to feel included. you've essentially made my point.
FWIW I've posted numerous times what I feel are the basic flaws with this AT when in a team environment. I generally put quite a bit of time into them too, so I'm not going to reiterate them for you, since when you point out how well you can solo X in resonse to my team-effectiveness comment, you cleary are only paying attention to your half of the conversation anyway.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As someone who enjoys playing a dominator very much but has trouble dealing with the fact that it is just simply not very good, I'm tired of reading post after post from people who refuse to admit something is wrong with this AT when you put it on a team.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am sure there is an equal, if not greater, number of people who are "tired of reading post after post from people who refuse to admit that there are no serious problems with this AT when you put it on a team."
[/ QUOTE ]
While you might be right, not only does my personal observation lead me to concluse that that person would be incorrect; Waiting patiently for that person to disprove it with something other than an opinon hasn't worked either.
It's interesting that in that entire post, those were the two comments you felt compelled to respond to.
You're still going on about your large team issues as if it is undeniable proof that the AT is broken 515A - a great many of us don't have problems on large teams at all.
Admittedly larger teams are harder for Dom's at low level, but things do get much better with SO's and they just get better from there as your control durations continue to grow, you get more and more control tools, and more slots in your key powers. Unfortunatley that is the nature of the way controls work in the game - there is little that can be done about it unless the Dev's completely revamp control mechanics, which I doubt they would do as it would surely qualify as one of those 'major power changes' that they said there would be no more of after the greatd defence nerf and ED.
If they were to change them then what they could possibly do to improve the situation is to increase the base durations of all controls and then change control duration enhancements to use one of the lower percentage schedules. That way controls would start off stronger but wouldn't improve as much with enhancement - the idea being they would end up approximately where they are now after taking into account typical SO enhancement. I doubt it would have a particularly massive effect though and probably wouldn't be worth the time and effort to go in and change all the control powers (which would have to be done across all AT's of course) and QA all the changes.
Many corruptor debuffs are not enhanceable for their primary effect and so come out of the box at pretty much full effectiveness (I'm thinking particularly about damage and resistance debuffs like enervating field, tar patch etc.) - this makes them relatively more effective at lower levels. In the later game once a Dom has matured, those base power relative differences mostly disappear.
IMO part of the problem is that how much a Dominator contributes to a team is very subjective and varies not by power choice but also from player to player. Different players have different playing styles and that factors into it. But for my Fire/Fire Dom both in small 3-4 person teams and in large 6-8 person team I have yet to see someone complain about how I don't do my "fair share". In fact I get told that thought Doms were "gimped" until they saw my Fire/Fire in action.
I am able to do a decent amount of controlling with Char, Cinders, and FireFlash. Bonfire has saved teams more times than I can count when we needed to retreat. And even though I "gimped" myself by being a range dominator, I do do a decent amount of damage and get more than my fair share of kills in a game. I've also developed a reputation of being a pretty good puller even with Corruptors on the team (don't get me into that subject about Corruptors who refuse to pull) with a Combination of Smoke and Fire Blast.
Now from my experience and from what other players from PUGS have said about my Fire/Fire Dom they would say I do contribute to both large and small teams. But I do understand there are people out there who's experience with Dominators are not the same as mine due to a variety of reasons such as Power Selection and Playstyle.
PS: And I know someone will bring this up about what about when you team and there is an AVs/Purple Triangles and I will agree that there is a problem with Dominators in those situations. But that doesn't take away the fact that I do contribute my fair share on the way there to the mission.
[ QUOTE ]
I have an accolade that gives me a 10% boost. Its made no difference. I have seen posts from others with a 15% or more boost, makes no difference (per their post). Unless we have a boost to allow us to take the alpha, I dont see this changing any complaints at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
I now have a 20% HP boost (well on Test, anyway -- soon to be on Live) and still I do not see any real improvement in how my Dominator plays. While the extra HP is certainly nice, even a 20% boost has not had a noticable impact on my Dom's survivability. The often requested HP boost to the AT as a "fix" can pretty much be eliminated as a viable improvement IMO.
Kid Lazarus, 50 empath Defender
Freek, 50 mind/psi Dominator
Black Khopesh, 43 db/wp Scrapper
Circuit-Boy, 40 elec Brute
Graf von Eisenfaust, 38 db/wp Brute
Blue Banshee, 35 sonic Blaster
Blood Countess, 33 mind/storm Controller
Dr. Radon, 32 rad Corruptor
Phantom Pirate, 32 db/wp Stalker
[ QUOTE ]
By the way, the same goes for everyone else who complains endlessly about dominators without asking for advice.
[/ QUOTE ]
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 41
Archetype: Dominator
Primary: Gravity Control
Secondary: Psionic Assault
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Lift==> Acc(1)Acc(3)
01) --> Psionic Dart==> Acc(1)Acc(3)
02) --> Mind Probe==> Acc(2)Acc(5)Dmg(7)Dmg(9)Dmg(13)Rechg(15)
04) --> Gravity Distortion==> Acc(4)Acc(5)Hold(7)Hold(9)Hold(11)Rechg(15)
06) --> Hurdle==> Jump(6)
08) --> Assault==> EndRdx(8)EndRdx(13)
10) --> Teleport Foe==> Acc(10)Acc(11)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Teleport==> EndRdx(14)
16) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(16)EndRdx(17)TH_Buf(17)
18) --> Gravity Distortion Field==> Acc(18)Acc(19)Hold(19)Hold(23)Rechg(25)Rechg(29)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --> Drain Psyche==> Acc(22)Acc(23)Rechg(27)Rechg(37)Heal(37)Heal(37)
24) --> Stealth==> EndRdx(24)EndRdx(25)
26) --> Wormhole==> Acc(26)Acc(27)Rechg(34)Rechg(36)Rechg(36)DisDur(40)
28) --> Subdue==> Acc(28)Acc(29)Dmg(31)Dmg(31)Dmg(31)Rechg(36)
30) --> Grant Invisibility==> EndRdx(30)
32) --> Singularity==> Dmg(32)Dmg(33)Dmg(33)Hold(33)Hold(34)Hold(34)
35) --> Phase Shift==> EndRdx(35)
38) --> Psychic Shockwave==> Acc(38)Acc(39)Rechg(39)Rechg(39)Dmg(40)Dmg(40)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Domination==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------
Thinking about picking up crushing field, power sink, ball lightning and mu guardian if I ever decide to dust it off.
Tactics? Stand in between Singy and a corner, Wormhole into corner, MP/Subdue/PSW is my attack chain with Dart as a filler and Drain Psyche thrown in. I've considered dropping concealment to pick up hasten. Tough spawns I just teleport past and let singy grab agro as it follows. Tough spawns in a corner or at the end of a hall phase shift is handy, it's also handy as an oh bleep.
GDF used primarily to stack holds on bosses when Domination is down. GD used on LTs/Bosses to mitigate damage while running attack chain or to negate real tough LT's that WH missed and there's no way to use LoS to get them into the corner. PSW is up often enough with enough occasional disorients to act as a ghetto soft control when the WH disorient wears off. Lift to mitigate damage until I can cast multiple GD's if neccessary. Leadership to boost damage (anything helps on a dom) but primarily for tactics.
I just hate when anyone suggests that being able to use our secondary is a reasonable answer to the way AVs and PvP works right now.
To me this is somewhat of principle of the matter issue, which doesn't bode well for me since I tend to care more about the principle than a realistic solution.
To me the principle, in this little situation, is that the devs created this AT, knowing the issues they themselves have with the Control primaries, then balanced is as if the game mechanics that are acceptable for Controllers do not exist. Those game mechanics totally wreck the already unbalanced Dominator AT....add into it that the Devs are cryptic and glacially slow to do anyting about it and it infuriates me.
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility