Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
[ QUOTE ]
Whether or not a dom can "out-control" a corruptor is irrelevant because a corruptor can provide enough control.
Consider brutes. A granite brute can tank the entire last mission of the RSF. Personally, while I consider that to be clearly "out-controlling" a dominator, all that matters is that it's enough control. So... are brutes overpowered as well?
[/ QUOTE ]
A granite brute can tank WITH THE SUPPORT OF MANY CORRUPTORS. I think this is a vitally important point. I think a LRSF with 1 corruptor would fail even if it had all the remaining members were granite brutes. First, in granite form brutes dont do great damage (DPS is low actually). Second, they still cant solo tank an AV, much less 5 AVs. I know this because granite TANKS cant do it, so its clear the brute is weaker. However, with corruptor support, they can tank it and so can other brutes (just not as well).
[ QUOTE ]
I can't think of a single situation in the game where a dominator is a better choice for a teammate than a corruptor (except for stalker heavy teams), but for months trying to get that point out on these forums got me hate-mail.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hard to believe you got any mail at all about this (prob just people posting that disagreed with you), but I consider this hyperbole. Other than AVs, a dom can completely 100% mitigate any damage at all from anything else in the game (bosses take ~7 seconds instead of 1 second). I dont know if I can say a dom is a BETTER choice, but most of the time they are as good as choice. Powers such as ice slick, seeds of confusion, mostly remove the need for healing (no incoming damage) and are better than debuffing, unless there are multiple corruptors on the team. Corruptors stack better than other ATs, which is why they are so good in the LRSF.
[ QUOTE ]
Corruptors are not overpowered. They have a role and they fulfill it. As do Brutes.
Dominators are underpowered. I wish they were not. But they are.
The RSF isn't an unfair encounter, it's simply a magnifying glass to show what the ATs are capable of.
I'm not trying to troll, I sincerely would like to see something changed - mostly the click-nature of the inherent - to make what is clearly a team-oriented AT useful in that scenario. But the reality is that currently, on a good 8-man team, a dominator adds exactly nothing. The fact that people are seeing this same problem in RSF is no surprise to me. The AT needs a boost. Badly.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, first, I can solo a large 8 man spawn with my AOE hold up on my dom (power boosted AOE hold, most dead before start cycling ST hold and laying down the slick). Its the multiple AVs, with their triangles, that really make a dom less useful, combined with the stacking of corruptors that make it better to just keep adding corruptors.
On an 8 man team, I easily carry my share and often more. Versus 8 AVs, I can easily see why I wouldnt carry my share. Even versus 1 AV, I dont consider myself to carry the share of the load I'm used to carrying. Its a problem caused by the decision to reduce the effectiveness of AOE holds and holds versus AVs (and players in PVP).
I heard that doms needed more damage when I first started playing one. They added melee damage, and no change at all in the complaints. They reduced domination cycle time, so it can be up more, still no reduction in complaints. Unless they change Doms to high damage and make us the COV version of blasters, I dont see damage boosts making us better team mates, nor does adding health (another running suggestion).
Whatever the solution is, it has to address the lack of allowed controls vs AVs and in PVP.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whether or not a dom can "out-control" a corruptor is irrelevant because a corruptor can provide enough control.
Consider brutes. A granite brute can tank the entire last mission of the RSF. Personally, while I consider that to be clearly "out-controlling" a dominator, all that matters is that it's enough control. So... are brutes overpowered as well?
[/ QUOTE ]
A granite brute can tank WITH THE SUPPORT OF MANY CORRUPTORS. I think this is a vitally important point. I think a LRSF with 1 corruptor would fail even if it had all the remaining members were granite brutes. First, in granite form brutes dont do great damage (DPS is low actually). Second, they still cant solo tank an AV, much less 5 AVs. I know this because granite TANKS cant do it, so its clear the brute is weaker. However, with corruptor support, they can tank it and so can other brutes (just not as well).
[ QUOTE ]
I can't think of a single situation in the game where a dominator is a better choice for a teammate than a corruptor (except for stalker heavy teams), but for months trying to get that point out on these forums got me hate-mail.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hard to believe you got any mail at all about this (prob just people posting that disagreed with you), but I consider this hyperbole. Other than AVs, a dom can completely 100% mitigate any damage at all from anything else in the game (bosses take ~7 seconds instead of 1 second). I dont know if I can say a dom is a BETTER choice, but most of the time they are as good as choice. Powers such as ice slick, seeds of confusion, mostly remove the need for healing (no incoming damage) and are better than debuffing, unless there are multiple corruptors on the team. Corruptors stack better than other ATs, which is why they are so good in the LRSF.
[ QUOTE ]
Corruptors are not overpowered. They have a role and they fulfill it. As do Brutes.
Dominators are underpowered. I wish they were not. But they are.
The RSF isn't an unfair encounter, it's simply a magnifying glass to show what the ATs are capable of.
I'm not trying to troll, I sincerely would like to see something changed - mostly the click-nature of the inherent - to make what is clearly a team-oriented AT useful in that scenario. But the reality is that currently, on a good 8-man team, a dominator adds exactly nothing. The fact that people are seeing this same problem in RSF is no surprise to me. The AT needs a boost. Badly.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, first, I can solo a large 8 man spawn with my AOE hold up on my dom (power boosted AOE hold, most dead before start cycling ST hold and laying down the slick). Its the multiple AVs, with their triangles, that really make a dom less useful, combined with the stacking of corruptors that make it better to just keep adding corruptors.
On an 8 man team, I easily carry my share and often more. Versus 8 AVs, I can easily see why I wouldnt carry my share. Even versus 1 AV, I dont consider myself to carry the share of the load I'm used to carrying. Its a problem caused by the decision to reduce the effectiveness of AOE holds and holds versus AVs (and players in PVP).
I heard that doms needed more damage when I first started playing one. They added melee damage, and no change at all in the complaints. They reduced domination cycle time, so it can be up more, still no reduction in complaints. Unless they change Doms to high damage and make us the COV version of blasters, I dont see damage boosts making us better team mates, nor does adding health (another running suggestion).
Whatever the solution is, it has to address the lack of allowed controls vs AVs and in PVP.
[/ QUOTE ]
I totally agree with ya dude. Doms Carry there weight and then some. We are not Av killers,thats why you make teams. But we
do Damage to mobs in our on "special way", be it Aoe holds, confuses, sleeps or Debuffs.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With my mind/psi, I can take out a red-conned Ballista, solo, without using a single inspiration.
IMO, that does not suggest "underpowered".
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait a freaking minute.
How the hell are you soloing red Ballistas w/ Mind/Psy and not using ANY inspirations.
[/ QUOTE ]
A lot of patience? 
[ QUOTE ]
What level are you doing this at?
[/ QUOTE ]
40, but I'm pretty sure it could be done earlier.
L29, probably (though with even _more_ patience).
[ QUOTE ]
Are you using temp powers/pets (i.e. Shivans).
[/ QUOTE ]
No. Geez. That'd be _real_ easy.
[Note to self: My level 19 dom has Shivans... why doesn't my level 40?]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry dude but I very much doubt your claim. I can solo Ballistas as well, but I sure as hell cant without using inspirations. I AT LEAST need to bring some Blues along.
[/ QUOTE ]
The strategy:
Spam dominate *and* confuse (safety net; odds of him breaking both are next to none*).
Hit drain psyche when it comes up.
Hit domination when it comes up.
Other than that, simply keep an eye on your endurance bar and toss attacks whenever you have endurance for them.
The way I have dominate and confuse slotted, I can spam them indefinitely (no hasten, no recharges in confuse) while actually gaining (minimal) endurance.
Drain psyche flatlines his regen for 30 seconds, plus gives me back enough endurance to attack.
Domination is, well, domination.
Overall, it's enough to overcome the regen on a +1 Ballista.
<Shrug>
If I were trying it at a lower level, I'd probably want drain psyche slotted for endurance, and recharges in mind probe and subdue - to make up for the missing shockwave during domination/drain psyche periods.
What I *didn't* do is rush.
I knew I had all the time in the world. 
Edit: Oops - forgot to add the * note regarding the safety net.
* He broke loose from dominate once, and started wandering around. Freaked me out.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
[ QUOTE ]
Ballistas don't get the purple traingles. Soloing them isn't that big a deal. Only factor is endurance.
[/ QUOTE ]
agreed. Domination and Power Boosted Power Sink FTW
[ QUOTE ]
My opinion?
Better performance outside of Domination.
More damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Been done, didnt change anything. Need more? Do you significanly contribute to teams if you use red inspirations, but dont when you dont use them? Its the same thing as a damage boost for the AT. My answer is, I dont see a 5% or 10% damage boost doing anything for us in teams, and making soloing a little easier, which is more than easy enough for me already.
[ QUOTE ]
More HP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Makes you better on a team how, exactly? I have an accolade that gives me a 10% boost. Its made no difference. I have seen posts from others with a 15% or more boost, makes no difference (per their post). Unless we have a boost to allow us to take the alpha, I dont see this changing any complaints at all.
[ QUOTE ]
Controller mez duration.
[/ QUOTE ]
We already have much better durations and mags than a corruptor, but still have claims that corrutors have ENOUGH control and so are better than doms. Well, same arguement here. Doms have more than enough control. Adding a little more will make the AOE holds a little better when unslotted, and the rest will be unnoticable (IMO).
I do think the AOE holds recharge is too long, as its up for one or two times/mission, and should be up more than that (IMO), considering that if you slot it three recharge, the duration would be pitiful.
[ QUOTE ]
Better numbers from the Leadership pool.
[/ QUOTE ]
Give us the best numbers, and still assault, tactics and manuvers are pitiful. This is like the same control as controllers, its more an irritation from trying to see why the devs did it, than really getting anything out of it.
[ QUOTE ]
Better PPPs. I think it's already too late on this one, but it still needs to be said. Specifically, I'd like to see Dominators get access to the broadly useful Controller APP powers like Hibernate, Earth's Embrace, and Indomitable Will, as well as see Build Up in one or more of the pool. As is, they get very few utility powers in the 40+ game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agree with this for the most part. I like water spout, and I like the armor I have, but its not as good as some possible power combos (IW would have been nice, heals, etc). Still, I have liked the Mako PPP more than I thought I would.
[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. Defenders can do the same thing Corruptors can, as they have the same stacking of buffs and debuffs. In fact, they can do it better, because they get better numbers from their powers than Corruptors do, and with 8 people buffing and debuffing base damage becomes largely immaterial. Do you think Defenders are overpowered? Do they make it worthless to play any other hero AT?
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, all defender teams are almost sick in what they can do, but it rarely happens. More often, defenders are so totally outshined by controllers no one considers them overpowered.
Plus, defenders dont get some of the better corruptor attack primaries (I have been underwelmed with the damage from my dark/dark corruptor).
However, the fact is, if there was a TF similar to the LRSF, defenders and controllers would be the required class, at least 4 or 5 of these would be considered required. Its really not the corruptors adding damage that make them required on the LRSF, its their debuffing/buffing/healing.
[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: just to add, yeah, i got hatemail in my inbox. blew my mind. I'm generally to the point but I don't try to troll. Suprised the hell out of me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, as someone often accused as a "prodomite", I have never PM'd anyone about a post. If I disagree I post why, but thats really as much so everyone seeing it can get the dissenting opinion, rather then for the sake of arguing.
I have gotten PMs from people who strongly disagreed with me, but even then, it was still trying to convince me of something, wasnt hate mail.
Sheesh. Sorry to hear that. 
[ QUOTE ]
It seems that for the most part, in CoV any control a dom brings to a team is either redundant or it's not enough. Controllers don't have this issue because of containment.
[/ QUOTE ]
Controllers dont have this issue because they bring basically the same functional support as a defender, plus as good damage as anyone else with containment. Remember, their damage is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH lower than a doms against an AV, because they do their double damage attacks 33% of the time AT MOST. Comparing a fire/fire dom to any troller, and the the damage WITH containment is similar, and WITHOUT containment isnt even close.
Ifs its only a case of damage, I would take a dom (fire or otherwise) over a troller every time if the hold is only going to work 33% of the time.
In reality, the controller damage is icing on the cake, the buff/debuff from their secondary is why they are never a bad choice for a team mate.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: just to add, yeah, i got hatemail in my inbox. blew my mind. I'm generally to the point but I don't try to troll. Suprised the hell out of me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, as someone often accused as a "prodomite", I have never PM'd anyone about a post. If I disagree I post why, but thats really as much so everyone seeing it can get the dissenting opinion, rather then for the sake of arguing.
I have gotten PMs from people who strongly disagreed with me, but even then, it was still trying to convince me of something, wasnt hate mail.
Sheesh. Sorry to hear that.
[/ QUOTE ]
I turned off my mail a long time ago. There are many people in the forums that forget this is just a game and people have a right to express opinions that may different from their own. I've seen some people equate an attempt to improve a few game powers with promoting slavery and terrorism. Get a grip people.
[ QUOTE ]
In reality, the controller damage is icing on the cake, the buff/debuff from their secondary is why they are never a bad choice for a team mate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Controler controls are quite valuable, more so than doms. But this leads back to Doms (at least grav) having excessivly low combination of damage and control. In spite of that for me, the need to fix the broken powers in grav is formost. But still an increase in either damage or control would greatly help.
Doms in general dont need much to raise them up to the level of other ATs. And Grav doms only need a few faulty powers fixed in addition to that.
[ QUOTE ]
[Quote]My opinion?
Better performance outside of Domination.
More damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Been done, didnt change anything. Need more? Do you significanly contribute to teams if you use red inspirations, but dont when you dont use them? Its the same thing as a damage boost for the AT. My answer is, I dont see a 5% or 10% damage boost doing anything for us in teams, and making soloing a little easier, which is more than easy enough for me already.
[ QUOTE ]
More HP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Makes you better on a team how, exactly? I have an accolade that gives me a 10% boost. Its made no difference. I have seen posts from others with a 15% or more boost, makes no difference (per their post). Unless we have a boost to allow us to take the alpha, I dont see this changing any complaints at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
I do think additional damage makes a difference. It makes a difference to me for sure, and I am not sure how much more justificiation I need than that, let alone remark on how this would help in PvP.
More HP, well, I would be less of a liability to my team if I wasn't so easy to drop for high damage dealers in PvE and PvP.
The Mez protection that is coming is going to be nice, except for the fact that you are still so light in health that you can be easily killed by the things you need protected from the most. AVs, EBs, and PvP toons can still 2 and 3 shot you dispite your mez protection....and you are expected to go into melee with them...there is where your additional damage and health would definitely make a difference.
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seems that for the most part, in CoV any control a dom brings to a team is either redundant or it's not enough. Controllers don't have this issue because of containment.
[/ QUOTE ]
Controllers dont have this issue because they bring basically the same functional support as a defender, plus as good damage as anyone else with containment. Remember, their damage is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH lower than a doms against an AV, because they do their double damage attacks 33% of the time AT MOST. Comparing a fire/fire dom to any troller, and the the damage WITH containment is similar, and WITHOUT containment isnt even close.
Ifs its only a case of damage, I would take a dom (fire or otherwise) over a troller every time if the hold is only going to work 33% of the time.
In reality, the controller damage is icing on the cake, the buff/debuff from their secondary is why they are never a bad choice for a team mate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Anglican.. that 33% double damage thing is wrong. At least it's wrong for any controller who isn't illusion or Mind.
AV triangle's don't effect immobilizes. So, they can still get 'containment'
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
More HP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Makes you better on a team how, exactly?
[/ QUOTE ]
That depends on how much more HP you get. 5x and people will take notice, you would be a damage absorbing machine.
Otherwise we had this discussion before I7 came out. Buff this an insignificant amount, buff that an insignificant amount. The problem is, and was even then, that small buffs are not going to change people's perceptions. At least it is not going to change the beliefs of someone who is adamantly seeing only what they wish to see.
Princess Grace - MA/Inv scrapper
Solana - Mind/Energy dominator
Lyonette - Kat/SR scrapper
I really think the devs need to bite the bullet and have dominators get corrupter level damage (without scourge) so that there will be more dominators in the game and quiet all the detractors. Its not a real big deal, blasters and tankers both have pretty high secondary AT modifiers, why not us?
Or...
Scale our damage similar to our hold duration modifiers over time. As our control options become more limited in higher levels our damage should increase (i.e. against AV's and EB's with purple triangles).
I agree with pretty much everything you're saying. It's no longer a question of damage, hp, or mez, the base issue with Dominators (as an AT rather than individual powersets) is the series of nerfs controls have consistently gotten over the course of several issues.
AV encounteres aside, my Dominators do not "suck like people say they do." However, I've never felt any toons were as completely ineffective as I feel my Dominators are when my teams face a hero or archvillain. I can put my ST hold on auto and go around cleaning my apartment and be as effective as if I'm at the keyboard the way these AV encounters work now. That's overstating the case, but not by much.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seems that for the most part, in CoV any control a dom brings to a team is either redundant or it's not enough. Controllers don't have this issue because of containment.
[/ QUOTE ]
Controllers dont have this issue because they bring basically the same functional support as a defender, plus as good damage as anyone else with containment. Remember, their damage is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH lower than a doms against an AV, because they do their double damage attacks 33% of the time AT MOST. Comparing a fire/fire dom to any troller, and the the damage WITH containment is similar, and WITHOUT containment isnt even close.
Ifs its only a case of damage, I would take a dom (fire or otherwise) over a troller every time if the hold is only going to work 33% of the time.
In reality, the controller damage is icing on the cake, the buff/debuff from their secondary is why they are never a bad choice for a team mate.
[/ QUOTE ]
Anglican.. that 33% double damage thing is wrong. At least it's wrong for any controller who isn't illusion or Mind.
AV triangle's don't effect immobilizes. So, they can still get 'containment'
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, my bad. My troller is too low to fight AVs (well, he could fight Vahz, but they arent common at that level), didnt think about the immobs (plus, as illusion, he doesnt even get immobs).
I have to say, though, my tank never thought of controllers as doing good damage in AV fights. It was always "a defender plus control too". This may have been a hold over from pre-containment days, as I was getting close to 50 by the time containment came in.
[ QUOTE ]
I really think the devs need to bite the bullet and have dominators get corrupter level damage (without scourge) so that there will be more dominators in the game and quiet all the detractors. Its not a real big deal, blasters and tankers both have pretty high secondary AT modifiers, why not us?
[/ QUOTE ]
I came to this conclusion a long time ago. It might not help all that much, but it definately is NOT going to adversely affect our game balance. We will still be far from overpowering.
Most of this game rests on a precarious system of balances. The balance relationships between controllers & defenders and scrappers & tanks are finely honed and delicately balanced. It isn't necessarily fair right now, but it is very difficult to improve one side or the other without scrapping the whole thing. Dominators are somewhat free of these constraints. We are moderate mez and moderate damage in a game of extreme damage, buff bots, and buff receptacles. We are somewhat outside of the whole balance equation in CoV. We can get tweaked a lot (up or down) without really affecting the overall balance of the game. Heck if it wasn't for potentially psychic shockwave, we could probably get controller mez and blaster damage and NOT really overpower the other ATs.
But then we've had this discussion before. Heck we had all of these discussions in this thread before.
Princess Grace - MA/Inv scrapper
Solana - Mind/Energy dominator
Lyonette - Kat/SR scrapper
[ QUOTE ]
Anglican.. that 33% double damage thing is wrong. At least it's wrong for any controller who isn't illusion or Mind.
AV triangle's don't effect immobilizes. So, they can still get 'containment'
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed - it's the main reason single target immob's are so much more useful to controllers than they are to dom's. The vast majority of AV's can be immob'd in one shot and can be kept perma-immob'd (therefore allowing containment).
However, I don't agree with the stipulation that containment allows all controllers to do as much damage as everyone else either. Try telling that to an earth or ice controller. Gravity and Illusion only have single target attacks that benefit significantly from it, and Fire really only gets any meaningful benefit from Hot Feet. Mind is the only primary that really gets a large all round benefit from containment which I think is fair considering it doesn't get a pet, and it has limited aoe containment set-up.
Of course things change somewhat when the APP's become available, but it's really only the Fire APP that really cranks out the big damage with containment - the other APPs don't really turn controllers into damage monsters, it's certain secondaries that do that (but those sets turn any AT into a damage monster if you have them in a team).
Oh and those who think they are useless against AV's when their triangles are up? Our secondaries are there for a reason you know - and they don't do such abysmal damage that it isn't worth hurling everything you've got at them. So what if the base modifier is slightly lower than other members of the team - with a nicely mixed team you should be doing very high damage anyway between all the buffs/debuffs that may well be flying around. Plus your pet(s) (if you have one) will happily pummel away at AV's too of course, adding significant damage to the team.
[ QUOTE ]
I do think additional damage makes a difference. It makes a difference to me for sure, and I am not sure how much more justificiation I need than that, let alone remark on how this would help in PvP.
More HP, well, I would be less of a liability to my team if I wasn't so easy to drop for high damage dealers in PvE and PvP.
The Mez protection that is coming is going to be nice, except for the fact that you are still so light in health that you can be easily killed by the things you need protected from the most. AVs, EBs, and PvP toons can still 2 and 3 shot you dispite your mez protection....and you are expected to go into melee with them...there is where your additional damage and health would definitely make a difference.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think there are two sets of complaints, that are somewhat different in how they can be fixed.
1. Soloing, or in small parties (2-3 members), damage would make doms better, mez protection make them better, more health make them better. Only, my experience has been that I dont NEED my dom to be better in that situation. Both of my doms do fine soloing (even at relentless except for AVs), including EBs (though lord recluse is on the slate for my main and lost on the first try). Same with small teams, both my doms do well (ice/nrg and fire/fire). More damage, more health, etc all make him even better, but dont see a NEED here (though others may). This is more "any boost is nice" IMO.
2. Large teams/AVs/PVP. Really, mainly versus AVs (and PVP), controls are nuked which makes doms less usefull than they should be. However, here is where a slight damage or health increase really wouldnt help. Unless doms end up the highest damage AT, other ATs still bring what is needed (brutes/MMs for alpha, corruptors for debuffs/healing/buffs). As you have enough damage to do fine with brutes, corruptors, and MMs, it doesnt make doms any better for an AV team than any other AT. Look at stalkers and how they arent good for the LRSF. Stalkers (nrg anyway, got doubts about my nin/nin stalker) do great damage, but they are considered with doms on the "pity" spots on the LRSF teams.
To compare to COH, while you need tanks/scrappers and defenders/controllers for AVs, blasters are NOT considered required. This is because you will have enough damage given most PUG compositions, and a squishy dies too fast vs an AV. In a lot of ways, this is the same reason stalkers have been less than desirable for AV teams.
So, if you see #1 as not a big issue, but see #2 as a large issue (mainly due to LRSF), then the fix involves letting doms be effective when the devs have decided controls are too storng (AV and PVP fights). This is why I dont see more damage or more health as doing much for us, because to me, the main issue is when I go against the top mobs in the game, my powers stop working.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and those who think they are useless against AV's when their triangles are up? Our secondaries are there for a reason you know - and they don't do such abysmal damage that it isn't worth hurling everything you've got at them. So what if the base modifier is slightly lower than other members of the team - with a nicely mixed team you should be doing very high damage anyway between all the buffs/debuffs that may well be flying around. Plus your pet(s) (if you have one) will happily pummel away at AV's too of course, adding significant damage to the team.
[/ QUOTE ]
OMG I hate this argument, whenever it comes up, so much I could spit...just did so I feel better.
I don't understand this mindset...THE GAME MECHANICS THAT NUKE CONTROL ARE STUPID! YOU SHOULDN'T JUST ACCEPT IT UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO JUST QUIT THE GAME AL TOGETHER.
No way we should just be happy to sit back and plink at the AV/Hero...no way. Not when every other AT gets to use their entire AT's abilites. No way.
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and those who think they are useless against AV's when their triangles are up? Our secondaries are there for a reason you know - and they don't do such abysmal damage that it isn't worth hurling everything you've got at them. So what if the base modifier is slightly lower than other members of the team - with a nicely mixed team you should be doing very high damage anyway between all the buffs/debuffs that may well be flying around. Plus your pet(s) (if you have one) will happily pummel away at AV's too of course, adding significant damage to the team.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I can add some damage. But I don't add anything else. Sure, I can theoretically achieve 100% damage mitigation 33% of the time, but the debuffers & healers on my team are already achieving 100% mitigation 100% of the time, so my entire primary is pointless 100% of the time. Even when triangles go down, I'm not needed.
Since I'm not adding anything the team needs (and they have me along because they like *me* not because my toon is needed), I feel much more productive playing a toon that adds more damage than my Dominator -- which is any other toon at my disposal that happens to not be another of my Dominators.
All I'm saying is that until AVs are fixed to make my Dominators useful, until I add more than just the lowest amount of damage any AT in CoV adds (even under Domination I add less than a scouring Cor, a furious Brute, or a hidden Stalker), until I'm something other than a disadvantage to a team, I'll be playing something else whenever I know there will be an AV encounter.
For the vast, sweeping majority of the game, my Dominators are effective support/assault toons. For a very small minority of extremely important encounters, they're utterly ineffective. This needs to change.
I can see where your point of view comes from, but I still think that more damage and hp will both help our performance was well as image in the community.
You can add all the great bonuses to Domination that you want, but with our low health there are situations, like PvP, in which we will always have an unfairly difficult time getting it built up.
There is a balance between health/protection and damage. If you are going to have high healt and protection, then you can afford to have low damage. High damage can afford you low health/protection...but for dominators, especially considering the Game Mechanics surrounding control sets, you get both low ends. Both!
So since the devs don't seem inclined to realize that their game mechanics are sloppy and unimaginative answers to keeping mezing from being overpowed, then I would like to have my other forms of balanced increased. More hp and more damage. Especially melee...we should be absolute terrors in melee considering everything we have going against us in that situation.
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
[ QUOTE ]
For the vast, sweeping majority of the game, my Dominators are effective support/assault toons. For a very small minority of extremely important encounters, they're utterly ineffective. This needs to change.
[/ QUOTE ]
I totally agree with this, which is why I think adding a small amount of damage (assuming we wont start out damaging damage primaries), or a little health (assuming we wont leap frog melee only toons like stalkers) wont get us to where we should be.
Our powers should work, in all situations. Maybe they lose a little effectiveness (same as raw damage is less against an AV due to their high health amounts), but they should be as usefull as other ATs powers. Between BFs and triangles, dominators are simply left as poor damage blasters. Unless doms are given blaster level damage, they will always be a drag on an AV team, compared to other ATs.
To me, this means the answer or the fix for doms involves changing BF/AV triangles, or how holds interact with those.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand this mindset...THE GAME MECHANICS THAT NUKE CONTROL ARE STUPID! YOU SHOULDN'T JUST ACCEPT IT UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO JUST QUIT THE GAME AL TOGETHER.
[/ QUOTE ]
Um.. First of all that makes no sense whatsoever - why would I quit the game if I enjoy playing it, even with its faults?
Secondly I don't think I said anywhere that the triangles are not an issue. What I was trying to say is that I hate it when people say "OMG I'M 100% USELESS AGAINST AV'S!!11!ONE!!!ELEVEN!!" as it is blatently untrue IMHO. It is simply meaningless Hyperbole.
By all means suggest improvements to the current system, but I doubt we will ever be allowed to perma-hold AV's. I like the suggestion I've seen recently of AV's having suppression similar to players in PvP.
Ballistas don't get the purple traingles. Soloing them isn't that big a deal. Only factor is endurance.