Do dominators suck like people say they do?
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Ice/dark Necro/dark necro/ta Dark/dark and other controllery MM's and corruptors arent going anywhere. They give up damage for that control, but they still do more damage than dominators.
Heck any MM can outdamage any pre pet dominator by a large margin and even post pet dominators by a moderate.
Necro/dark and Necro/ta have some really good control. And much of it soft like tar patch and glue which werent nerfed to heck in the controller nerf.
Dominators are in a bad place compared to the controllerMM's and cor's.
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their control is very questionable. The recharge and activation times for ice/dark are horrible in comparison to dominators.
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They have 2 holds though. Which allows them to instahold a boss. 3 with patron powers.
Also they arent nearly as dependant on holds as dominators, also its more than enough control to take out a sapper.
Perfect control is a thing of the past, now its enough control to keep the PITA mobs off you long enough to kill the rest.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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I have a feeling Dominator is the hardest to balance of all.
Hold effect is the nastiest thing in this game. You cannot do ANYTHING when behing Held. That's as strong effect as you can get. How much balance do you need to allow Dominator to control in PvP? How fast do you allow Dom to build up their Domination?
PvP's problem has bigger issue due to Inspirations so I am not going to get into that.
But as for PvE, I only feel a bit inferior when fighting against Arc Villains but once I HOLD them, I feel so superb.. only if it's a few seconds of fame.
One thing they can probably do is to increase Domination gain when fighting against bosses. This way Doms can build up their Dom faster and thus dealing out more damage even though they fail to hold/control.
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Jib thats a really excellent point. Holds are the absolute ultimate debuff.
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Which is precisely why they are so easy to counter.
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And when we are countered, we feel so inferior. That's why Dominator is living on this LIFE or DEATH spectrum. When our Domination is on, we feel so invincible amd when it's not on, we feel so inferior.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Thanks for the replies. Thats kind of what i thought about them. Devs are good at ignoring every1 btw, even if there own missions are bugged....bastar.ds
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Now, now. The easiest way to get ignored is to call the devs names on a forum they regularly check.
And thanks to Positron's post, we know they read this forum.
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Do you think the dev checks this board a lot?? Just curious.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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We are meant to truly dominate single targets ...
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And yet against the only single targets that truly NEED to be dominated (Archvillains), our control ability is reduced incredibly.
That's really the biggest legitimate PvE complaint for Dominators: Archvillain fights. It's where we should shine the MOST, yet it's where we shine the LEAST. There are a few other minor matters (like the fact that a little more damage would probably be REASONABLE, and the fact that our endurance to damage ratio could probably be a bit kinder to us), but this one is just a slap in the face.
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Thanks for the replies. Thats kind of what i thought about them. Devs are good at ignoring every1 btw, even if there own missions are bugged....bastar.ds
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Now, now. The easiest way to get ignored is to call the devs names on a forum they regularly check.
And thanks to Positron's post, we know they read this forum.
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Do you think the dev checks this board a lot?? Just curious.
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I have no way of knowing. It's still not a good idea to bypass the language filter to insult them in broad daylight.
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We are meant to truly dominate single targets ...
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And yet against the only single targets that truly NEED to be dominated (Archvillains), our control ability is reduced incredibly.
That's really the biggest legitimate PvE complaint for Dominators: Archvillain fights. It's where we should shine the MOST, yet it's where we shine the LEAST. There are a few other minor matters (like the fact that a little more damage would probably be REASONABLE, and the fact that our endurance to damage ratio could probably be a bit kinder to us), but this one is just a slap in the face.
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Quite honestly, I don't really know how they can balance Archvillain fights for Dominators. Think about it, AV fight is supposed to be the super tough fight but what kind of tough fight is that when AV is behind HELD??? That's no challenge at all IMO. That's why the Hold effect is extremely powerful.
One thing they can do though is to increase Domination gain against AV so Doms can dish out much better damage when Domination is on. Afterall, Assault IS one of our specialities. Many seem to forget that our damage output when Domination is on is probably one of the BEST. I find myself out damaging my friend's MM when my Domination is on.
If we can't control, then deal as much damage as we can! With no control, we are like having NO DEFENSE at all. So the logical sense is to boost out damage as high as possible to compensate that weakness.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I have a feeling Dominator is the hardest to balance of all.
Hold effect is the nastiest thing in this game. You cannot do ANYTHING when behing Held. That's as strong effect as you can get. How much balance do you need to allow Dominator to control in PvP? How fast do you allow Dom to build up their Domination?
PvP's problem has bigger issue due to Inspirations so I am not going to get into that.
But as for PvE, I only feel a bit inferior when fighting against Arc Villains but once I HOLD them, I feel so superb.. only if it's a few seconds of fame.
One thing they can probably do is to increase Domination gain when fighting against bosses. This way Doms can build up their Dom faster and thus dealing out more damage even though they fail to hold/control.
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Jib thats a really excellent point. Holds are the absolute ultimate debuff.
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Which is precisely why they are so easy to counter.
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And when we are countered, we feel so inferior. That's why Dominator is living on this LIFE or DEATH spectrum. When our Domination is on, we feel so invincible amd when it's not on, we feel so inferior.
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which is why Ive been saying since beta. Domination is the key to the problem and if it comes down to it. Domination has to go.
Come on who hasnt watched Voltron and said, why doesnt he just bring the big attack out and stop wasting time. Thats really what dom's feel like why are the devs wasting our time and theirs with this.
Im not saying we should be domination strong all the time, but Id rather be in a balanced state most of the time, not in a constant flux of underpowered/overpowered.
If you arent in a pefect state of awareness, have a great build, and balancing when to and not use your powers, you are going to SUCK as a dom. To the few people who can do this great.
I for one would never trust another player to be that good. I assume they are going to mess it up. From talking to other players many of them feel the same way, its not worth taking a chance on inviting a dom to the team.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
About the only thing they could do is give us double damage vs EB's and AV's.
Im not sure that would help anything and might make it worse, but it would be worth testing at least.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Ice/dark Necro/dark necro/ta Dark/dark and other controllery MM's and corruptors arent going anywhere. They give up damage for that control, but they still do more damage than dominators.
Heck any MM can outdamage any pre pet dominator by a large margin and even post pet dominators by a moderate.
Necro/dark and Necro/ta have some really good control. And much of it soft like tar patch and glue which werent nerfed to heck in the controller nerf.
Dominators are in a bad place compared to the controllerMM's and cor's.
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their control is very questionable. The recharge and activation times for ice/dark are horrible in comparison to dominators.
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They have 2 holds though. Which allows them to instahold a boss. 3 with patron powers.
Also they arent nearly as dependant on holds as dominators, also its more than enough control to take out a sapper.
Perfect control is a thing of the past, now its enough control to keep the PITA mobs off you long enough to kill the rest.
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and how often do those 2 holds recharge? Have you ever seen the animation time for bitter freeze ray? Also the duration of time for which they actually are held makes our AOE holds look golden. How many bosses and or lt's can you hold within say 5 large battles? Im betting not many.
with my dominator I can hold up to 3 bosses simultaneously. I have 2 recharges in my single target hold plus hasten up most of the time. Glacier is also up about every 3rd battle for me (2 recharges, 2 hold, 2 acc).
Of course they aren't nearly as dependent on holds that domiantors are, thats our primary. Corrupters primary is damage.
Even if I was only able to hold LT's for a reasonable amount of time (in the early lvls like 1-12), I can still hold some pretty vicious LT's (such as trolls, COT ghosts etc).
/Dark is pretty nice control wise but comes no where close to any of the dominator/controller primaries. For all reasonable talk Ice has 1 major hold, and one situational. Both of which have poor recharge, no accuracy bonus, and decreased hold times.
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We are meant to truly dominate single targets ...
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And yet against the only single targets that truly NEED to be dominated (Archvillains), our control ability is reduced incredibly.
That's really the biggest legitimate PvE complaint for Dominators: Archvillain fights. It's where we should shine the MOST, yet it's where we shine the LEAST. There are a few other minor matters (like the fact that a little more damage would probably be REASONABLE, and the fact that our endurance to damage ratio could probably be a bit kinder to us), but this one is just a slap in the face.
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Im reasonablly happy I can hold down an av roughly 1/4 of the time. You can get a lot of damage in that 1/4 of the time the AV is not pounding on you. Especially since their regen nerf.
Well I see a lot has been said already, but. . .
No. They don't suck.
If you want to play the most efficient class possible, and that is all you care about, then you are a mor--I, I mean you shouldn't play a dominator.
However, a dominator offers an interesting, challenging playstyle that no other AT comes close to. Controllers are not better, they're completely different (and I do have a 50 controller in case you were wondering). A controller focuses on having an answer every single possible threat it might face. It's the "toolbox" AT. Dominator? They are extremely focused. Hold this, hold that, slash burn bang to build Domination.
So the fact is that Dominators do something no one else really does. Unfortunately they are VERY hard to balance. Buff damage? Yeah, you just buffed about 10 fast, cheap, efficient attacks that recharge fast enough to flow endlessly for any high level dominator. You may well have rendered blasters defunct. More Domination is dangerous too. Add a better attack? No. They have bad secondary attacks for a reason! A dominator with, say, Nova would be way out of line, and a lot of other stuff would be dangerous too. Better holds? Maybe, but then what happens to Domination? You going to increase the magnitude of Domination holds (yikes)? Or you going to make it so that Domination has little effect on the magnitude (meh)?
So, what do you do to dominators to make them better. . . in the specific circumstances where they need it? Heck if I know!
If someone had figured it out they would have done it! Give the Devs time, it's a tough problem. In the meantime, doms are perfectly playable. Being slightly inferior is not being "gimped". Quit exaggerating.
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Ice/dark Necro/dark necro/ta Dark/dark and other controllery MM's and corruptors arent going anywhere. They give up damage for that control, but they still do more damage than dominators.
Heck any MM can outdamage any pre pet dominator by a large margin and even post pet dominators by a moderate.
Necro/dark and Necro/ta have some really good control. And much of it soft like tar patch and glue which werent nerfed to heck in the controller nerf.
Dominators are in a bad place compared to the controllerMM's and cor's.
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their control is very questionable. The recharge and activation times for ice/dark are horrible in comparison to dominators.
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They have 2 holds though. Which allows them to instahold a boss. 3 with patron powers.
Also they arent nearly as dependant on holds as dominators, also its more than enough control to take out a sapper.
Perfect control is a thing of the past, now its enough control to keep the PITA mobs off you long enough to kill the rest.
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and how often do those 2 holds recharge? Have you ever seen the animation time for bitter freeze ray? Also the duration of time for which they actually are held makes our AOE holds look golden. How many bosses and or lt's can you hold within say 5 large battles? Im betting not many.
with my dominator I can hold up to 3 bosses simultaneously. I have 2 recharges in my single target hold plus hasten up most of the time. Glacier is also up about every 3rd battle for me (2 recharges, 2 hold, 2 acc).
Of course they aren't nearly as dependent on holds that domiantors are, thats our primary. Corrupters primary is damage.
Even if I was only able to hold LT's for a reasonable amount of time (in the early lvls like 1-12), I can still hold some pretty vicious LT's (such as trolls, COT ghosts etc).
/Dark is pretty nice control wise but comes no where close to any of the dominator/controller primaries. For all reasonable talk Ice has 1 major hold, and one situational. Both of which have poor recharge, no accuracy bonus, and decreased hold times.
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I also didn't factor domination into this equation at all. On a large team non news paper mission domination is up for 180 seconds per pop roughly about 3 times per mission for me. I can insta hold any boss any time I want to. Even controllers don't have that luxury.
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About the only thing they could do is give us double damage vs EB's and AV's.
Im not sure that would help anything and might make it worse, but it would be worth testing at least.
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Mmm, probably not doubling the damage but +2 on Domination bar would be nice. Each hit gives +2 on Domination bar? Somebody show me the math one day but I forgot now. hehe
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I for one would never trust another player to be that good. I assume they are going to mess it up. From talking to other players many of them feel the same way, its not worth taking a chance on inviting a dom to the team.
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You must not do a lot of PUGs then. I've been on teams with Brutes who take Stealth, Corruptors who won't heal or Debuff, MM who take 5+ minutes to set up all their pets and have to do it before every fight, and Stalkers who refuse to AS the Boss at the end of the mission. You never know what you get when you send that team invite out to someone you never played with before regardless of AT.
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Im reasonablly happy I can hold down an av roughly 1/4 of the time.
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To be entirely honest, I don't care what you're happy with. It's mathematically unfair to Dominators, and that's all there is to it; imbalances aren't justified by individuals not minding them, and this is a mathematically obvious imbalance.
But you have 2 stackable holds, which allows instahold on an boss, and soulstorm is the most incredible hold ive seen and one of the few shining patron powers.
So ice has 1 decent hold, 1 situational
Dark has 1 fairly good hold
Ghost widow has 1 very good hold.
Thats an amazing amount of control for a non controller, nondominator.
Now to Necro/TA
Has 1 decent hold
1 pretty good aoe hold(this hold is very good for MM's who can actually get away with the aftereffects)
1 great slow
1 aoe knockdown
1 pet with hold, immob, fear
Wow.... I mean wow..
Necro/dark is even better as fluffy joins liche in controller fun
1 decent hold
1 aoe fear
1 aoe slow
1 aoe disorient
2 controlling pets
I mean even more wow...
Now add into all of this some amazing damage.
Now Im not saying its dominator level, but its close enough to raise the question why put up with anemic dominator damage when you can have this PLUS lots of damage.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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But you have 2 stackable holds, which allows instahold on an boss, and soulstorm is the most incredible hold ive seen and one of the few shining patron powers.
So ice has 1 decent hold, 1 situational
Dark has 1 fairly good hold
Ghost widow has 1 very good hold.
Thats an amazing amount of control for a non controller, nondominator.
Now to Necro/TA
Has 1 decent hold
1 pretty good aoe hold(this hold is very good for MM's who can actually get away with the aftereffects)
1 great slow
1 aoe knockdown
1 pet with hold, immob, fear
Wow.... I mean wow..
Necro/dark is even better as fluffy joins liche in controller fun
1 decent hold
1 aoe fear
1 aoe slow
1 aoe disorient
2 controlling pets
I mean even more wow...
Now add into all of this some amazing damage.
Now Im not saying its dominator level, but its close enough to raise the question why put up with anemic dominator damage when you can have this PLUS lots of damage.
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take into consideration the duration of the holds and the recharge times. To even get to dominator level you need to expend a ton of slots. From what I understand Ghost Widow's hold is bugged b/c it seems to be unresistable (thats what I've heard).
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We are meant to truly dominate single targets ...
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And yet against the only single targets that truly NEED to be dominated (Archvillains), our control ability is reduced incredibly.
That's really the biggest legitimate PvE complaint for Dominators: Archvillain fights. It's where we should shine the MOST, yet it's where we shine the LEAST. There are a few other minor matters (like the fact that a little more damage would probably be REASONABLE, and the fact that our endurance to damage ratio could probably be a bit kinder to us), but this one is just a slap in the face.
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Quite honestly, I don't really know how they can balance Archvillain fights for Dominators.
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Look, here's the deal. Individual Archvillains aren't a challenge anyway. The sole and only possible issue when on a good team against an individual Archvillain is whether or not you can beat it's regeneration, and most teams can.
Beyond that, who cares? Corruptors are all ready capable of debuffing them to the point where they're not a threat, I see no reason why Dominators can't just lock them down. It's not like it's cheap to keep the thing locked down the whole fight WHILE doing damage, after all. More important, though, is the fact that being able to lock down individual Archvillains would come in handy against MULTIPLE Archvillains.
That said, my solution is to solve it like it was solved in PvP: mez supression. You hold the ARchvillain, and when that hold ends, he's free for a short period of time. He's still not locked down the ENTIRE fight, but he's locked down MORE of the fight, and more importantly, you can CONTROL the times he's locked down on. Look at Mako for instance: if you can lock him down at just the right time, he can't Elude, and that's huge benefit. But because of the triangles, you've no way of saying, "Now is when I want my brief mez lockdown." If we could control at will, and then have the mez protection come AFTER the lockdown, then we could lock down Mako/Positron/Brawler/etc and stop them from using their invincible power, and thus be very useful.
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Think about it, AV fight is supposed to be the super tough fight ...
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Except they're not. Individual Archvillains ARE NOT super tough fights. Any combination of Masterminds, Corruptors, and Brutes makes sure of that.
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To be entirely honest, I don't care what you're happy with. It's mathematically unfair to Dominators, and that's all there is to it; imbalances aren't justified by individuals not minding them, and this is a mathematically obvious imbalance.
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I think a simple fix would be to allow Dominators to be able to hold AVs when they have Triangles up. Maybe the duration of hold time when triangles are up is cut in half or to a quarter to prevent permahold.
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I for one would never trust another player to be that good. I assume they are going to mess it up. From talking to other players many of them feel the same way, its not worth taking a chance on inviting a dom to the team.
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You must not do a lot of PUGs then. I've been on teams with Brutes who take Stealth, Corruptors who won't heal or Debuff, MM who take 5+ minutes to set up all their pets and have to do it before every fight, and Stalkers who refuse to AS the Boss at the end of the mission. You never know what you get when you send that team invite out to someone you never played with before regardless of AT.
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Ive seen all of that.
anyone can be an idiot on a pug.
Not only does the dom have to not be an idiot, they have to be awesome.
An average MM or an Average brute does a pretty good job. Corruptors usually have to be a bit on their toes same with stalkers.
Dominators have to be downright great to be as good as the average MM.
Id rather take my chances with the MM's and brutes, since in all honestly the great majority of players are average.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
That or dom's get new secondary effects on all holds that are irrestible. Either -range, making dom's have a unique power effect villain side, letting dom's immbolize things and force av's to use melee attacks only.
This would be extremely helpful in many ways.
It might be considered overpowered, but it would greatly make dom's needed in all areas of game. Especially in pvp when no one can use a ranged attack on you.
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Dominators have to be downright great to be as good as the average MM.
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Then I must be spectacular since I contribute much more to a team then all the MM's I have teamed with who send their pets into three different mobs at once and then are surprised whn they die.
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But you have 2 stackable holds, which allows instahold on an boss, and soulstorm is the most incredible hold ive seen and one of the few shining patron powers.
So ice has 1 decent hold, 1 situational
Dark has 1 fairly good hold
Ghost widow has 1 very good hold.
Thats an amazing amount of control for a non controller, nondominator.
Now to Necro/TA
Has 1 decent hold
1 pretty good aoe hold(this hold is very good for MM's who can actually get away with the aftereffects)
1 great slow
1 aoe knockdown
1 pet with hold, immob, fear
Wow.... I mean wow..
Necro/dark is even better as fluffy joins liche in controller fun
1 decent hold
1 aoe fear
1 aoe slow
1 aoe disorient
2 controlling pets
I mean even more wow...
Now add into all of this some amazing damage.
Now Im not saying its dominator level, but its close enough to raise the question why put up with anemic dominator damage when you can have this PLUS lots of damage.
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You forgot the Boss Ghost from dead Lich's body... it has Necroplasmic Grasp. That's 3 Holds for ya...
oh... did I mention the number of debuffs Necro/Dark set has?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Not only does the dom have to not be an idiot, they have to be awesome.
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I would say they have to be capable. Granted you have less wiggle room than the other ATs but you don't have to be Mr. Uber Gamer to do a decent job as Dominator and to be contribute to the team.
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An average MM or an Average brute does a pretty good job.
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Brute I will give. IMO of all the AT's Brutes are the "Simplest" of the 5 Ats. MM is a whole other matter, I've been on far too many teams with a MM who loses control of their Pets and aggros a whole bunch of groups that causes the whole team to be wiped out.
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Corruptors usually have to be a bit on their toes same with stalkers.
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Just the same as a Dominator. You have to be on your toes.
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Dominators have to be downright great to be as good as the average MM.
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Matter of experience. The average MM I've seen too often loses control of their pets (this coming from a Fire/Fire Dom with Rapid Monkeys Of DOOM) and takes way to long to Buff up their pets and sometimes gets upset when you move on without them. I've asked some of these MM if they thought about creating a Bind for their pets and I get asked "what's a Bind?"...)
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Id rather take my chances with the MM's and brutes, since in all honestly the great majority of players are average.
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Brute I will give you but MM... I guess my experiece has been different than yours.
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Thanks for the replies. Thats kind of what i thought about them. Devs are good at ignoring every1 btw, even if there own missions are bugged....bastar.ds
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Now, now. The easiest way to get ignored is to call the devs names on a forum they regularly check.
And thanks to Positron's post, we know they read this forum.