Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
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The same concept holds for every CoV 'version' of a CoH AT. Corruptors don't do quite as much damage as Blasters
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Except Corruptors are the analogy of Defenders, rather than Blasters, and Corruptors do MORE damage than Defenders.
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Brutes are a little squishier than Tanks, etc.
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Except, again, Brutes are the analogy to Scrappers, not Tankers, and Brutes are more RESILIENT than Scrappers, while actually being able to outdamage them over the course of a mission if they keep a fast pace, too.
So those are really bad examples, to be honest.
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The same concept holds for every CoV 'version' of a CoH AT. Corruptors don't do quite as much damage as Blasters
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Except Corruptors are the analogy of Defenders, rather than Blasters, and Corruptors do MORE damage than Defenders.
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Brutes are a little squishier than Tanks, etc.
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Except, again, Brutes are the analogy to Scrappers, not Tankers, and Brutes are more RESILIENT than Scrappers, while actually being able to outdamage them over the course of a mission if they keep a fast pace, too.
So those are really bad examples, to be honest.
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What a curious view on the ATs you have.
Co-Founder of W.I.C.K.E.D., a top 5 VG on Justice (inactive)
Lily Stormcrow: 50 Storm/Dark Defender
Elizabeth Spectre: 50 Grav/Psi Dominator
Lady Viridian: 50 Rad/Rad Corruptor
�Yet call not this long life; but think that I am, by being dead, immortal; can ghosts die?�
- John Donne
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Do dominators suck?
Are they fun?
Why do people say they arent good?
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Answering your question with my own.
Personally I don't find MMs that much fun. Does that mean they suck? If not then why do people say they are so great?
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The same concept holds for every CoV 'version' of a CoH AT. Corruptors don't do quite as much damage as Blasters
[/ QUOTE ]
Except Corruptors are the analogy of Defenders, rather than Blasters, and Corruptors do MORE damage than Defenders.
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Brutes are a little squishier than Tanks, etc.
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Except, again, Brutes are the analogy to Scrappers, not Tankers, and Brutes are more RESILIENT than Scrappers, while actually being able to outdamage them over the course of a mission if they keep a fast pace, too.
So those are really bad examples, to be honest.
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What a curious view on the ATs you have.
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Also a correct one. Or did you not notice that Corruptors and Defenders both do damage and buff/debuff/heal (they're literally just mirror images of one another, with a couple powersets swapped out)? Maybe you didn't notice Scrappers and Brutes are both melee damage primary, self-defense secondary (with the same ratings mind you; no Tanker-level protection for Brutes), with a damage-enhancing inherent?
I think it's pretty obvious, honestly. But I've always been bright.
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Why do people say they arent good?
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Because they don't dish out lots of damage.
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Truthfully I feel that's the core of it. So much of the game is centered on the big hurt, and a class that doesn't bring it will generally be looked at as inferior.
Doms don't bring the big hurt, and they demand a playstyle with a premium on situation awareness, and fast accurate judgements about where to focus. It's the least straightforward CoV AT, so it's bound to get it's share of detractors who think it should be "more like" whatever they want it to be more like.
If we were made more efficient, either through better damage for the endurance we use, or less endurance for all the abilities we need to spam, some of the issues might be solved, however that wouldn't change the fact that Dominators have a very different playstyle than the others.
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For some people, especially people who say they used to be Controllers, are disappointed with the Hold Duration times, and I think they may have a good reason to be disappointed, thinking deeper into it.
Let's look at things this way: Our Duration modifier is 1.00, and Controllers' is 1.25, so right off the bat they have a 25% bonus to hold times.
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The same concept holds for every CoV 'version' of a CoH AT. Corruptors don't do quite as much damage as Blasters, Brutes are a little squishier than Tanks, etc.
Dominators are no different, yet there seems to be an endless stream of caterwauling regarding this specific AT.
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You're ignoring part of the problem. While I am comparing us to Controllers, that's really why you hear everyone saying "I feel like such a leech when I'm on a team because my hold suck..." 25% is a very big number, and the reason Corruptors don't complain about their damage is they're designed like Offenders were--weakening the opponent with their debuffs to approach Blaster-level damage while keeping the team safe, getting the benefits of both ATs. Corruptors also get Scourge, which further increases their damage. Some could argue Corruptors are BETTER than Blasters, and they are often considered the most well-designed AT.
Dominators, however, don't synergize so well with their secondaries. Our secondary is all about doing damage (and not very much at that). Two sets have Power Boost, so we get many bursts of time when we have increased hold times, but in the long run, our hold times are nothing special. We bring two things: Damage and Control. Corruptors bring slightly less Control, but they bring more ST damage, AoE damage, debuffs, buffs, heals, and arguably more Soft Control.
Brutes vs. Tanks is easier: they're designed to be a mix of Scrapper and Tank. Therefore, they are squishier than Tanks but do much more damage, but since they are more durable than Scrappers, they do less damage than they do most of the time.
So, while Doms may be designed as a team support AT, the level of team support we bring is near the same amount a MM or a Corruptor would bring--and they surpass our damage. Though, oftentimes, our holds do bring less lag than a MM would bring. Do you see why people compare us to Controllers? We have nothing meaningful BESIDES Control to bring to a team, so why is it weaker than a Controllers' 70% of the time? We should be be equal 70% of the time and better the other 30%, no questions asked, because the only team support we bring are Controls. We're designed like the Defender AT: they specialize in one area and dabble in damage a small bit. We, on the other hand, don't specialize too well at all.
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The same concept holds for every CoV 'version' of a CoH AT. Corruptors don't do quite as much damage as Blasters
[/ QUOTE ]
Except Corruptors are the analogy of Defenders, rather than Blasters, and Corruptors do MORE damage than Defenders.
[ QUOTE ]
Brutes are a little squishier than Tanks, etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except, again, Brutes are the analogy to Scrappers, not Tankers, and Brutes are more RESILIENT than Scrappers, while actually being able to outdamage them over the course of a mission if they keep a fast pace, too.
So those are really bad examples, to be honest.
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Actually you're both right.
If you go by shared powers then Defender / Corrupter and Scrapper / Brute are most similar. But don't forget what the boards were like back when CoV was first released. People were screaming how Brutes were or were not Tanks for one. Why? Because they were the closest thing to tank in CoV terms. Same goes for Corrupters who are the closest thing to a blaster in CoV.
If you think in terms of a role or function then Brute / Tanker and Corrupter / Blaster are similar. Want someone to take the alpha? Brute is the strongest. Want someone to dish out lots of damage to a mob? Corrupter is your guy.
Gradually people learned (or still are) that the way the game was played for over a year doesn't really fit so well in CoV. A MM can tank if you want (getting him to do it is another story). A Corrupter can be your Defender type too if you want (also getting him to do so is another story).
I think you're both right really. It's what caused some much friction when CoV came out. It still rubs people the wrong way today.
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The same concept holds for every CoV 'version' of a CoH AT. Corruptors don't do quite as much damage as Blasters
[/ QUOTE ]
Except Corruptors are the analogy of Defenders, rather than Blasters, and Corruptors do MORE damage than Defenders.
[ QUOTE ]
Brutes are a little squishier than Tanks, etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except, again, Brutes are the analogy to Scrappers, not Tankers, and Brutes are more RESILIENT than Scrappers, while actually being able to outdamage them over the course of a mission if they keep a fast pace, too.
So those are really bad examples, to be honest.
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What a curious view on the ATs you have.
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Also a correct one. Or did you not notice that Corruptors and Defenders both do damage and buff/debuff/heal (they're literally just mirror images of one another, with a couple powersets swapped out)? Maybe you didn't notice Scrappers and Brutes are both melee damage primary, self-defense secondary (with the same ratings mind you; no Tanker-level protection for Brutes), with a damage-enhancing inherent?
I think it's pretty obvious, honestly. But I've always been bright.
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Can't have your cake and eat it too. You assert that corruptors are CoVs defenders because they share mirror-imaged dmg/debuff power sets, but neglect to point out that brutes and tanks share mirror-imaged dmg/defense powersets when you suggest that brutes are the CoV scrappers.
The labels at the top of the powersets are irrelevant. What's pertinent are the roles the ATs are meant to fill. People use corruptors, primarily, to dish out damage at range. Their secondaries are useful and not to be ignored, but most people don't build corrs and put the primary ranged damage attacks on the backburner in favor of the secondary powers. You rarely hear corrs complaining that they make crappy defenders; rather, they complain that they don't do as much damage as blasters. People do complain that there isn't a truly effective Defender type AT for CoV, but that's another discussion. 
Likewise, with Brutes, people primarily use brutes to go in and absorb damage, take punishment, and hold aggro. Sounds like the role Tanks typically fill.
And even if people view corruptors as being more closely aligned with defenders than blasters, that makes my point even more: Corruptor's defender-like abilities are pathetic in potency when compared to a Defender's primaries.
Co-Founder of W.I.C.K.E.D., a top 5 VG on Justice (inactive)
Lily Stormcrow: 50 Storm/Dark Defender
Elizabeth Spectre: 50 Grav/Psi Dominator
Lady Viridian: 50 Rad/Rad Corruptor
�Yet call not this long life; but think that I am, by being dead, immortal; can ghosts die?�
- John Donne
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Can't have your cake and eat it too. You assert that corruptors are CoVs defenders because they share mirror-imaged dmg/debuff power sets, but neglect to point out that brutes and tanks share mirror-imaged dmg/defense powersets when you suggest that brutes are the CoV scrappers.
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I'm comparing TYPES of sets over SPECIFIC sets where applicable. Scrappers, Tankers, and Brutes all have melee damage TYPE sets and self-defense TYPE sets, so I give the set ordering precedence, particularly in light of the shared focus of Scrappers and Brutes inherents, the shared level of defense-powers, and the shared overall damage capability -- such a judgment call is required because there are examples of powersets that only Brutes and Scrappers share and only Tankers and Scrappers share. Corruptors and Defenders are the only two who both have a blast and buff set, so ordering is irrelevent with regards to them; there's just no one else in the running.
Simple, really.
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I think you're both right really. It's what caused some much friction when CoV came out. It still rubs people the wrong way today.
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Well, it's party because CoH built ATs that almost identically mirrored traditional RPG roles. It was an easy transition for people coming into CoH.
CoV, however, mixed and matched the roles, coming up with more rounded, less specialized ATs. This caused a bit of consternation, and still does as you point out.
Co-Founder of W.I.C.K.E.D., a top 5 VG on Justice (inactive)
Lily Stormcrow: 50 Storm/Dark Defender
Elizabeth Spectre: 50 Grav/Psi Dominator
Lady Viridian: 50 Rad/Rad Corruptor
�Yet call not this long life; but think that I am, by being dead, immortal; can ghosts die?�
- John Donne
My dom totally rocks. I always team with a same lvl mm. Her pets do all the damage and I keep them from running off by keeping the enemies where they are. Also they each do increased damage because we both have assault and tactics. They are really powerful in groups, but I can solo groups of 6-10 whites/yellows with lieutenants if I have my fly trap and carrion creepers out. I hit them with my seeds of confusion, then roots, carrion creepers, drain psyche, and psionic shock wave. My fly trap goes to town and carrion creepers does more damage then I would have thought, plus it takes aggro and can't be killed. I strangler whoever didn't get hit by seeds and if they all did then I'm free to take out the boss with my snipe. If I get my spirit tree down and my drain psyche hits all I have to worry about is getting held or slept. If I have domination I don't even have to break a sweat. People underestimate the value of spirit tree, but in conjuntion with increased defence due to maneuvers or hover it works really well. Happy Hunting!
I do well in PvP with my dom, however doms get the gimp tag because as a previous poster stated we dont do eye dropping damage. I have to emphisise hopping around and spaming holds and blasts until I either drop a toggle or opponent makes a mistake. I have to do this because if i engage in a "fair" fight and stand like a noob infront of any other archtype except defenders im gonna get dropped. So playing a dom in PvP isnt as easy as playing a blaster/scrap/tank/troll/brute, because i dont just run in and pwn peeps. Being a set without buffs, not having that kind of explosive power is why most people stick the gimp tag on it. I was hoping for self and team buffs in the patrons to work with the powerboost. Is it hard work gaining non-team reputation with a dom...yes. Is it worth the headache of 30 levels of grinding to finally drop domination on that pesky enemy and watch him err get arrested...yes!
I am PL in RL.
Freedom- Magnet Man, Hott Sauce, Stand-Up Comic
Actually I really like the brute/tanker comparison because it has exactly the same problem as the controller/dom comparison. On paper the brute looks like a joke, it has fewer hit points, lower defense and lower base damage. But it also has fury. Because of thier inherent power they are far from a joke, and actually play much more like scrappers than tanks.
Doms have the same issue in that they are kinda of like controllers but have domination. With domination we aren't like any other AT, there is no real comparison so most people ignore domination and compare us to controllers, that's essentially ignoring SMASH and comparing brutes to tanks.
Domination is an incredible power and can be up alot, easily 2 or 3 times in even a short mission if you push it, and more in longer missions. Having marginally less control than controllers 3/4s of the time is a small trade off for having vastly better control the other quarter of the time. At least to me, if it bothers you that much play another class.
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Why do people say they arent good?
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Because they don't dish out lots of damage.
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Truthfully I feel that's the core of it. So much of the game is centered on the big hurt, and a class that doesn't bring it will generally be looked at as inferior.
Doms don't bring the big hurt, and they demand a playstyle with a premium on situation awareness, and fast accurate judgements about where to focus. It's the least straightforward CoV AT, so it's bound to get it's share of detractors who think it should be "more like" whatever they want it to be more like.
If we were made more efficient, either through better damage for the endurance we use, or less endurance for all the abilities we need to spam, some of the issues might be solved, however that wouldn't change the fact that Dominators have a very different playstyle than the others.
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For some people, especially people who say they used to be Controllers, are disappointed with the Hold Duration times, and I think they may have a good reason to be disappointed, thinking deeper into it.
Let's look at things this way: Our Duration modifier is 1.00, and Controllers' is 1.25, so right off the bat they have a 25% bonus to hold times.
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The same concept holds for every CoV 'version' of a CoH AT. Corruptors don't do quite as much damage as Blasters, Brutes are a little squishier than Tanks, etc.
Dominators are no different, yet there seems to be an endless stream of caterwauling regarding this specific AT.
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Let me put this in a different way to tell you why Dominators having less Control power is an unfair reduction. I know what you're saying: we gave up Team Safety for damage (aka Team Speed). The problem is, we gave up too much team safety to get the level of damage we have.
Here's a hypothetical example: A Mind/FF Controller is considered one of the safest of the support-type Controllers. They use Controls to keep the team safe and if those fail, their bubbles will reduce the incoming damage significantly. Do they bring more damage than a Dominator? Heck no. Do they bring more team safety? Infinitely more. Their holds last longer AND their buffs mitigate what damage comes in so much it isn't funny. They even give themselves mez protection.
"But that just proves my point even more." you might be saying.
Sure, but let's take a look at a Mind/Kin--a more offensive Controller build. Here's what a hypothetical fight opener would look like: the Controller casts Mass Hypnosis to get the mobs dozing, then they run in and cast Fulcrum Shift and Siphon Power. Then they step back, target the mob furthest in the back, hit Mass Confuse or Total Domination, and then let loose with Terrify. Half the minions' HP is now gone, they're cowering in terror, and they will only attack themselves. Will a Dominator bring that much damage to the same fight? Unsure. Fulcrum Shift on top of a double-power Terrify does a ton of damage all at once. It's debatable if a Dominator could reach that level of damage--but the Controller just boosted the damage of everyone else within the AoE of Fulcrum Shift as well, thereby increasing team speed even further. A single AoE from anyone else buffed like that might be able to finish off all the minions at once.
But would a Dominator bring more team safety to compensate? Definitely not. The Controllers' mezzes last longer thanks to their control modifier, the mobs won't hit as often because the Controller's Terrify had a ToHit debuff attached that's working when the mobs do get a chance to attack (their DEBUFF modifier is 25% higher than ours, too!) and when the mobs attack, they do so with reduced damage thanks to Fulcrum Shift.
Did we sacrifice Team Safety to increase Fight Speed? Well, in this case we sacrificed but got nothing in return. The fact that we have no debuffs to stack on top of our Control should have been quite enough sacrifice for the level of damage we got in return, but our controls, the only source of team safety we bring, got reduced as well. Do you see my point?
EDIT: Do note that I'm not saying "Doms suck" in any way, shape, or form. I'm just stating that we got unfairly shafted and could do with some improvements.
So where are the devs on this.
States in beta said he would be keeping a close eye on Dom's after all the Dom's are too weak calls.
Then they said in I7 they were still looking and here we are a month later and nothing said.
So where are the devs in all this, it seems like they really dont care much. Its like dom's dont have enough players to be worth spending time on.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Actually I really like the brute/tanker comparison because it has exactly the same problem as the controller/dom comparison. On paper the brute looks like a joke, it has fewer hit points, lower defense and lower base damage. But it also has fury. Because of thier inherent power they are far from a joke, and actually play much more like scrappers than tanks.
Doms have the same issue in that they are kinda of like controllers but have domination. With domination we aren't like any other AT, there is no real comparison so most people ignore domination and compare us to controllers, that's essentially ignoring SMASH and comparing brutes to tanks.
Domination is an incredible power and can be up alot, easily 2 or 3 times in even a short mission if you push it, and more in longer missions. Having marginally less control than controllers 3/4s of the time is a small trade off for having vastly better control the other quarter of the time. At least to me, if it bothers you that much play another class.
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I also like the Fury / Domination comparison. Rarely do Brutes talk about how they have issues and leave out Fury. It just goes without saying that Fury is what makes them and it's worth pretty much any price. Yet most Dom complaints try to downplay Domination's contribution or significance. There are times when I cannot rely on Fury or I'm hampered by it's nature just like there are times when Domination or the lack of it holds me back. I see a lot of similar things with the two but Fury gets a lot of leeway.
Fury is much much much much better than domination.
A sliding domination scale like a slower to build, slower to depreciate fury was one of the suggestion I made early.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
fury isnt really that great in PvP. Well let me revise that, Its great if someone stands there and lets you get your attack chain off cleanly every time. So therefore its not great in PvP.
I am PL in RL.
Freedom- Magnet Man, Hott Sauce, Stand-Up Comic
CoH was never designed to be a PvP game, as noted by the drastic differences in powers in PvP and PvE settings. What most are more focused on is the PvE game.
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fury isnt really that great in PvP. Well let me revise that, Its great if someone stands there and lets you get your attack chain off cleanly every time. So therefore its not great in PvP.
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It also isn't great if you don't get a good share of aggro. No problem if you solo or team with maybe a Corrupter or Dom or Stalker, but if you team with a MM (which are popular) it's just a pain. The pets move you around and make the enemy mobs flip out and forget you. At least with a Corrupter or Dom or Stalker they will let you take the aggro and probably collect a good number of hits. With MMs you spend all your time just chasing it seems like.
And that doesn't even cover how everyone else likes to pause between fights to buff and what not which totally hoses Fury. A team of Brutes is usually good because they understand what it takes to keep Fury going but otherwise Fury gets pretty hard to keep going after you just add a single teammate.
I posted a thread on the sudgestions board on how to change the triangles so that we're not useless 3/4 of an AV fight.
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Yea, pretty much what he said. It seems Dominators were designed and then had their damage/hold times/mag nerfed around the inherent Domination power. It almost looks like AE attacks were nerfed when designing the AT to prevent them from becoming overpowered when in Domination mode.
But, a Dominator's endurance is a serious issue. The damage to endurance to time to kill a mob ratio is very poor.
There is more...all problems can be attributed to the clunky inherent power "Domination".
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lets just change domination to a sscale like fury
and it slowly raises mag levels to 2x 
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i keep hearing that all doms are gimp and suck and stuff. Why do people say they arent good?
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Who are you listening too, exactly? Forum trolls? If that's the case, then you are very foolish.
Both of my doms (plant/nrg and mind/psi) are very sought after on teams, and I've been very successful and had a lot of fun with them.
That said, I wouldn't mind a tweak to our AoE holds - the triple whammy of acc penalty, low base duration and ridiculous recharge time totally gut those powers and make them broken, imo.
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against the only single targets that truly NEED to be dominated (Archvillains), our control ability is reduced incredibly.
That's really the biggest legitimate PvE complaint for Dominators: Archvillain fights. It's where we should shine the MOST, yet it's where we shine the LEAST.
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I have begun to notice a pattern when I'm fighting AV's with purple triangles on my dom. When my teammates are in trouble - either the AV holds them or severely injures them - the triangles drop, and my holds kick in. Happened with Ghost Widow (I wrote a thread that got locked "Dom saves team from AV film at 11" - thanks trolls), and it's been happening more recently.
The other day I duo'd with a brute friend of mine and the scaled-down-to-elite boss (forgot his name ATM) had triangles. I spammed my holds, and ranged attacks, while he roughed him up. The triangles were up most of the fight, and right when he nuked my friend (who dropped into the red with his health), the triangles dropped and my holds kicked in. This has happened a few times to me. Almost as if the triangles drop when the AV gets an upper hand in the fight. Happened when I fought positron and lord recluse, too. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but it has happened a few times to me already...
Also, as a side note, when 2 dominators pop domination and spam their holds, they can quickly lock down an AV through the triangles and keep them locked down for most of the fight. A dom teammie and I - both boosted with domination - locked down Swan and Lilithu for virtually the entire fight.
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You're ignoring part of the problem. While I am comparing us to Controllers, that's really why you hear everyone saying "I feel like such a leech when I'm on a team because my hold suck..." 25% is a very big number, and the reason Corruptors don't complain about their damage is they're designed like Offenders were--weakening the opponent with their debuffs to approach Blaster-level damage while keeping the team safe, getting the benefits of both ATs. Corruptors also get Scourge, which further increases their damage. Some could argue Corruptors are BETTER than Blasters, and they are often considered the most well-designed AT.
Dominators, however, don't synergize so well with their secondaries. Our secondary is all about doing damage (and not very much at that). Two sets have Power Boost, so we get many bursts of time when we have increased hold times, but in the long run, our hold times are nothing special. We bring two things: Damage and Control. Corruptors bring slightly less Control, but they bring more ST damage, AoE damage, debuffs, buffs, heals, and arguably more Soft Control.
Brutes vs. Tanks is easier: they're designed to be a mix of Scrapper and Tank. Therefore, they are squishier than Tanks but do much more damage, but since they are more durable than Scrappers, they do less damage than they do most of the time.
So, while Doms may be designed as a team support AT, the level of team support we bring is near the same amount a MM or a Corruptor would bring--and they surpass our damage. Though, oftentimes, our holds do bring less lag than a MM would bring. Do you see why people compare us to Controllers? We have nothing meaningful BESIDES Control to bring to a team, so why is it weaker than a Controllers' 70% of the time? We should be be equal 70% of the time and better the other 30%, no questions asked, because the only team support we bring are Controls. We're designed like the Defender AT: they specialize in one area and dabble in damage a small bit. We, on the other hand, don't specialize too well at all.
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I want to say that you are dead on. That right there is a huge problem with our archetype. We have no distinct advantage.
The Domination inherent is the problem. It needs to be nerfed I think. It was dreamed to be something fun and exciting...but became a ball and chain for the dominator. There is probably simply too many variables involved when trying to buff/nerf a dom and then factor in the domination inherent...
We most likely end up staying nerfed because the balance for domination is probably worked in with it being on whenever it is done recharging....which is not how our AT works all the time...
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Why do people say they arent good?
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Because they don't dish out lots of damage.
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Truthfully I feel that's the core of it. So much of the game is centered on the big hurt, and a class that doesn't bring it will generally be looked at as inferior.
Doms don't bring the big hurt, and they demand a playstyle with a premium on situation awareness, and fast accurate judgements about where to focus. It's the least straightforward CoV AT, so it's bound to get it's share of detractors who think it should be "more like" whatever they want it to be more like.
If we were made more efficient, either through better damage for the endurance we use, or less endurance for all the abilities we need to spam, some of the issues might be solved, however that wouldn't change the fact that Dominators have a very different playstyle than the others.
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For some people, especially people who say they used to be Controllers, are disappointed with the Hold Duration times, and I think they may have a good reason to be disappointed, thinking deeper into it.
Let's look at things this way: Our Duration modifier is 1.00, and Controllers' is 1.25, so right off the bat they have a 25% bonus to hold times.
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The same concept holds for every CoV 'version' of a CoH AT. Corruptors don't do quite as much damage as Blasters, Brutes are a little squishier than Tanks, etc.
Dominators are no different, yet there seems to be an endless stream of caterwauling regarding this specific AT.
Co-Founder of W.I.C.K.E.D., a top 5 VG on Justice (inactive)
Lily Stormcrow: 50 Storm/Dark Defender
Elizabeth Spectre: 50 Grav/Psi Dominator
Lady Viridian: 50 Rad/Rad Corruptor
�Yet call not this long life; but think that I am, by being dead, immortal; can ghosts die?�
- John Donne