Do dominators suck like people say they do?
By
Aleshanee_NA,
Posted on: 2006-07-05 13:59 in Dominators
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Why couldn't there have been an option for mez protection like controllers get, or a buff of some sort. Those are things that would really help round out alot of dominators.
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Yup. Corruptor can hold us easily 'cause we almost have no protection against controls. How ironic? Besides breakfrees, I don't think any Doms set offer any defense/mez defense. When we are on the receiving end, it's the worst nightmare. So much for being Dominator... our "minds" are just as easy to be dominated.
Corruptors have hold too. Our defense is so bad that almost anything can hit us. And Corruptors do good damage too.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
My simple answer, take it how you may.
All of the other AT's are better at what they do than doms are at what they do. Hard to follow? Let me try to explain.
Corrs have crap loads of damage potential from all of their primary powers, and tons of buffs/debuffs/control in their secondary powers. the primary and secondary are perfectly complimentary to each other, and each is good on it's own.
Brutes are REALLY good at smashing things to bits. Their secondary either gives them more damage, or more protection, or more control. Usually, all three, or at least 2/3. All that revolves around helping them SMASH more.
Stalkers are REALLY good at boss killing and melee combat. Stalkers exist to kill bosses. Their secondary is completely built around them getting off a powerful single killing blow, and then instantly getting out of combat to let the other ATs do their thing. When they do get into a brawl, they can hold their own pretty well.
Masterminds are powerful, very powerful. On top of the insane damage the pets can do, and the great advantage of having 6 NPC meat shields to keep you safe, they can have awesome control, awesome utility, and great teamability. What's better to take an alpha than a single henchmen that can be easily summoned? The MM secondaries are all about control, team support and supporting your pets. These things they do very, very well.
Dominators get enough control to barely keep them safe, and a piddly, almost insignificant amount of damage output. Unless you're in Domination mode. 90 seconds out of every 5 minutes if you can somehow manage to keep your domination bar up all of the time, which is impossible since you can't aggro too much without dying, fight too much without running out of end, and at a nonstop, constant pace like that, the average newspaper mission would take less than 10 minutes to complete, leaving you possibly being in Domination twice per mish if you REALLY try. *ignore the run-on sentence!*
I love my dominator. However, I feel that with my Dominator I NEED to team, or I'm just wasting my time because I am NOT having fun. Freezing an enemy and then slowly chipping away at his health is NOT fun. Assasin Striking a +2 boss is fun. Uppercutting a lowly punk straight into the air for 4x his HP with Knockout Blow is fun. Sending a massive army of soldiers into battle and commanding their actions as they all simultaneously unload with Full Auto onto a group of enemys is fun. Fearing a massive spawn, Laying down a Tar Patch and blowing them to kingdom come with some massive firey AoE goodness is fun.
Laying down an Ice Slick on an 8 man spawn is fun. AoE freezing a big spawn of enemys is fun. But where does it get a dom. A dom can't kill several enemies before they break free and kick your butt. An Ice Slick only lasts so long. ST holds can only keep 3 enemy's held if you work for it. The whole Dominator AT is balanced around Domination, which is fine. But either they should make Domination come up more often, either through faster building, less recharge time, or both. They should also make it so Domination doesn't diminish over time.
Everyone always say's theres something wrong with Dominators. That isn't exactly true. Since Dominators are completely balanced around Domination, then that means there's a problem with Domination. Domination needs to be WAY more active, WAY more often. That is all the fixing Doms need. If we don't get that, then give us a base damage increase in our Secondary and Primary.
Being powerful into the late 30's is >>>NOT<<< balanced. Does any other AT have to put in possibly 50-70 hours of pure grinding just to start feeling like they are powerful? No. Corrs, especially Fire/Dark Corrs are absolute death machines by level 10, and only get exponetionally better as they level up. Basically any brute combo is extraordinarilly powerful right out of the box. By level 18 MMs get all 3 minions and 2 LTs. The boss is just icing on the cake. Once stalkers get AS they become 10x more useful.
"OMGZ, at l3v3l 38 y0u get ur pet and then you get S00p3r st0ng!"
Spare me. Level 38 is TOO freaking long. I have fun on my Dominator, I like my dominator, but he's on the backburner because any of my other toons are just plain MORE fun to play, with less frustration.
So, gimp. Possibly not. Domination needs to be changed for the better. So my point: Corrs, Brutes, Masterminds and Stalkers are better at Blasting and de/buffing, smashing, overwhelming, and assasinating than Doms are at control/damage.
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Why couldn't there have been an option for mez protection like controllers get, or a buff of some sort. Those are things that would really help round out alot of dominators.
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Devs still should have released Patrons for CoH and APPs and PPPs for CoV in I7. We should have gotten a Heal, Shield, Endurance Recov, Rain, Mez, or Extra Attack in our APPs, something that goes with our damn set.
That crap is one of the reasons why I am having problems leveling my 40. I wanted Frozen Armor so bad, Hoarfrost. . .Ice Storm. . .Frozen Fists. . .Icicles. . .whatever. I don't really have any reason to play em except to get to 50. And if they will be introducin some APPs soon I do not want to get to 50 without em. Plus i developed alt-itis because of having to wait for I7.
guys controllers pay a huge price for their mez protection. Mainly they miss out on some of the gems in the other epics (mainly powerboost, fireball/fireblast, hibernate). Everyset besides mellee based has no mez resist. Those corruptors that can easily hold you can also easily be held (unless bub or sonic) and if they are bubles or sonic they are losing offense and defense the sets contain (like heal and debuff toggles). We must all realize that we are biased towards our own wants and that their is 2 ways of looking at a situation. The grass is always greener.... The glass is half full... Dominators lack damage... Seeds of confusion is to powerful...
just to edit those pets in out patrons are not "usual" pets. For one they dont die when you die, and a corruptors fortuna was hitting my dark defender for 183 points of damage with mind blast! That is with 1 damage slot in fortuna and shadowfall 3 slotted damage resist! What I am trying to say is that we jump all over the patrons before we actually see them. I would suggest taking the set with powers you have not seen before.
I am PL in RL.
Freedom- Magnet Man, Hott Sauce, Stand-Up Comic
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guys controllers pay a huge price for their mez protection. Mainly they miss out on some of the gems in the other epics
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I'm sure Dominators would be just as willing to pay the same price if they were OFFERED THE CHANCE.
That's the basis of the complaint: Dominators are never offered the same chance Controllers are. Hell, no Villain ARchetype is offered the same choices Hero Archetypes are. The closest we come to sacrifice is whether we want Web Grenade for -jump for [censored] sake.
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The grass is always greener....
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As someone who has played both Dominators and Controllers, this isn't a case of grass is greener. Controllers really are just plain better off with regards to their epic pools, if only BECAUSE they get a wider variety of what you call gems to pick from.
Not all controller's pay that big a price for mez protection. My grav/kinetic has it and does quite well. I think there should have at least been the option for dominators.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
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The other AT's don't need their inherents to function ....
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I'd like to see you say that with a straight face to brute, stalker, and tanker players.
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My problem is not that I couldn't kill the bosses. I understand that it would have been of marginal difficulty for any two AT's to tackle two bosses at once. My problem is that I contributed nothing.
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First, I'm confident that "nothing" is an exaggeration. Second, I still don't see any point in complaining about how well a character contributes to a nigh-impossible fight. Game balance is tough enough without worrying about pathological cases. Sorry, but I'm not going to take that kind of argument seriously. If you want to talk about troubles with normal encounters, or even if you want to argue that the "pathological" cases come up all too often, that's cool, but I'm not going to worry about how well a dominator contributes to scenario that's already broken for other reasons.
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You're obviously not listening to thing I'm saying, and you've apparently convinced yourself you're talking to someone who doesn't have a single clue how the overall game works or how any AT functions. Based on your replies I'm left with little choice but to form the same opinion of you, so let's just agree to disagree and end this debate here.
The bottom line is that Dom's still need help. No one can agree on what that might be or to what degree its necessary, but at least most of us seem to have accepted that there is am underlying problem.
To the original poster, if he's even still paying attention to this thread, my advice remains the same: If you want to know what all the fuss about Dominators is, you'll save yourself a lot of grief (or maybe directly create some) by just rolling one for yourself.
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The bottom line is that Dom's still need help. No one can agree on what that might be or to what degree its necessary, but at least most of us seem to have accepted that there is am underlying problem.
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OK. . Lets see, we need to give Doms shields. . .mez protection. . .a brute's 100% fury bar damage with a pre I5 damage enhancement assault build. . . more hit points. . . .well we basically just want a Dom to be a Brute but with Holds and an array of ranged attacks. Yeah. . .that would fix them. Oh yeah. We all also want the 1st tier attack changed to an Extreme damage fast recharge attack with a minimal activation time just to be sure everyone can play em.
P.S. Magnitude 10 holds would be great btw.
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The bottom line is that Dom's still need help. No one can agree on what that might be or to what degree its necessary, but at least most of us seem to have accepted that there is am underlying problem.
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OK. . Lets see, we need to give Doms shields. . .mez protection. . .a brute's 100% fury bar damage with a pre I5 damage enhancement assault build. . . more hit points. . . .well we basically just want a Dom to be a Brute but with Holds and an array of ranged attacks. Yeah. . .that would fix them. Oh yeah. We all also want the 1st tier attack changed to an Extreme damage fast recharge attack with a minimal activation time just to be sure everyone can play em.
P.S. Magnitude 10 holds would be great btw.
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This is pretty childish by btw.
There are different ideas on this forum and while I don't agree with all of them, a healthy discussion is great and I believe that's what the dev wants to see.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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The bottom line is that Dom's still need help. No one can agree on what that might be or to what degree its necessary, but at least most of us seem to have accepted that there is am underlying problem.
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OK. . Lets see, we need to give Doms shields. . .mez protection. . .a brute's 100% fury bar damage with a pre I5 damage enhancement assault build. . . more hit points. . . .well we basically just want a Dom to be a Brute but with Holds and an array of ranged attacks. Yeah. . .that would fix them. Oh yeah. We all also want the 1st tier attack changed to an Extreme damage fast recharge attack with a minimal activation time just to be sure everyone can play em.
P.S. Magnitude 10 holds would be great btw.
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I have read some of your other posts...and you seem to refuse to accept for some reason or another that Doms need a little help and do have a couple issues. I also agree with the guy above me that it was a childish remark on your part.
Just be adult and give some constructive criticism
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You're obviously not listening to thing I'm saying, and you've apparently convinced yourself you're talking to someone who doesn't have a single clue how the overall game works or how any AT functions.
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No, I'm simply trying to tell you that you picked a poor example, because it doesn't reflect normal play. (Or at least I hope not; next time, consider kicking the MM and resetting the mission.) That's why I asked for more typical examples. That way, we can better understand why you're having trouble and maybe even offer you advice if it's a build or playstyle issue.
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Just be adult and give some constructive criticism
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Man where the heck did you come from. Have you ever even posted anything positive or negative here.
The childish thing is to try to change or dream of changing things so that they conform to your own personal view of something should be. Especially when you did not have a hand in creating it.
There is plenty of pissing and moaning about what should be done to the AT that has something wrong with it because YOU cannot Dominate.
There are plenty of things we can change with the AT to make it easier for YOU.
High Hit Points. High Damage Tier instead of Medium. Higher BI. Access to High and Superior damage powers before Tier 7. Lets change Domination to Fury.
Sound like we also have many people saying "I don't know what Dominators need, but they need something" How about you as a Dominator. . .try figuring out W.T.H. you need to do personally.
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Just be adult and give some constructive criticism
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Man where the heck did you come from. Have you ever even posted anything positive or negative here.
The childish thing is to try to change or dream of changing things so that they conform to your own personal view of something should be. Especially when you did not have a hand in creating it.
There is plenty of pissing and moaning about what should be done to the AT that has something wrong with it because YOU cannot Dominate.
There are plenty of things we can change with the AT to make it easier for YOU.
High Hit Points. High Damage Tier instead of Medium. Higher BI. Access to High and Superior damage powers before Tier 7. Lets change Domination to Fury.
Sound like we also have many people saying "I don't know what Dominators need, but they need something" How about you as a Dominator. . .try figuring out W.T.H. you need to do personally.
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People are voicing their concerns and you're shutting them down with nothing but exagerated sarcasm as if asking for changes to the AT is this big deal to you...you take it so damn personally.
Looks at the topic title. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
NO!
People can suck at playing Dominators . . .but I generally dominate on teams.
My fire/energy does not suck and is very fun to play. Some say that fire doesn't get good until you have the pets slotted. Imho that is not true. After you get fire imps, no av/hero/eb relentless missions become very very easy though I expect them to get harder in the 40s.
The jury is still out on my grav/energy.
Those that say that doms are not good are usually grav doms 
Or they just picked immobs or start fights with immobs 
Or they like one-shotting +1 minions 
Or they like buffing/debuffing their teammates 
(j/k)
I'm not saying they are perfect. IIRC a dev said that they ae looking at doms and will only buff them slightly. On difficulty in fixing doms is that they vary so much; at leat fire and grav do. FMX, adding more damage might be the easiest way to fix but would make fire overpowered. If they up control too much we could get city of statues again which I'm sure the devs don't want. What I would like but I don't see happening is for doms to get something like AA/HF, at least grav.
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Do dominators suck like people say they do?
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Yes. I suck on a phenomenal scale. And if you disagree I'll hold/sleep/confuse you until my garden composts you at it's leisure.
From my experiences Doms don't suck. They just aren't obvious like some of the more favored classes. Because they take more than a day to become proficient at, they are regularly deemed crappy by the general populace of A.D.D. Avengers and re-roll queens that inhabit our fare fantasy world. This also explains why Doms become less frequent as you go up in level, yet for some reason are on everyones friends list, persistently in demand and are often highly skilled.
When you were a kid did you ever play console games with your friends? Remember that one game, character, or level that you or your friend just couldnt master, so one of you eventually threw down the controller in a fit of frustration and proclaimed This game/guy sucks!? Dominators are that game/guy. And like that guy/game Dominators really rock once you take the time to learn them.
In limited defense of the group of people who're most aggressive about either claiming the AT is broken or advocating the buffing the AT, I can only really think of one who's out-and-out claimed that the AT "sucks". Virtually everybody thinks the AT could benefit from some polish (which AT couldn't, after all?); the principal disagreement in the forums is over the magnitude of the problems and the nature of the solution. The divide between the people who think the AT needs a pretty fundamental overhaul, and the people who think the AT is basically okay but could use a nip here and a tuck there, does not appear any more surmountable today than it seemed six months ago, when I was a more regular poster here.
I'm in the "basically okay but could use a nip here and a tuck there" camp. I got my Ice/Ice to 40 and then moved on (I'll probably come back to her to earn her PPP at some point, but right now I'm levelling a Corruptor). While I occasionally wished for slightly longer holds or slightly higher damage, I always felt powerful, involved, and like I was contributing to my teams' (both small and large) success.
Good luck with your Dominator.
I don't think any AT sucks really. It's just that not every AT is for everyone. Players have different play styles and prefer certain ATs over another.
One player may love Doms and another may hate them due to different playstyles and what they are looking for in a game.
Some people play by the numbers for maximum efficiency and think that is the only important factor in an AT. Other play for the fun of roleplaying a concept and think that's what's important. I think most of us are somewhere in the middle.
I haven't found an AT yet that I didn't like. But I have found some that I prefer over others.
I've got multiple heroes and villains of all ATs. I like them all. As to which one I prefer playing depends upon the mood I'm in.
How could anyone compare Dom to Trollers? They are different, Controllers are way better due to their secondaries and epic pools plus the bloody containment that does triple damage in PvP! Imagine a /sonic or /FF with the mez bubble or /rad with AM+hasten plus IW or hibernate or earth's embrace from the epic as well as CJ/acro, and mind/ or illusion/ to boot.
Doms really should have gotten a mez protection and/or health boost/heal in the patron pool rather than more blasts and pets that the pri/sec already offers. The shield is the only power I bother taking on my Corr and Dom, perhaps soul storm later on.
The other story is that Corrs do way better throughout most of the levels past 20+ to 50, ice/dark/gw can have 4 holds, that should be enough to stack on a boss with hasten and recharges. A /kin can have fulcrum shift, siphon power and soul drain for huge damage boosting and fire/ would compliment that best.
Right now, in a decent team, I only see a Dom and Stalker useful for the big targets like bosses and EB's, get that hold in and have the Stalker AS then the Corr can scourge the rest. In Grandville, Corruptors seems to have the highest population and Brutes as a close second while Doms are extremely rare, then many of those MM and Stalkers I see are running solo.
Read my sig for my opinion on the PPPs, all the AT patrons. 
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How could anyone compare Dom to Trollers? They are different, Controllers are way better due to their secondaries and epic pools plus the bloody containment that does triple damage in PvP!
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You do realize that you just indignantly asked how anyone could ever compare a dom to a controller, and then proceeded to write a two paragraph comparison of them, right?
But to support your initial statement, yes. You cannot compare them because they are different. One is a truck, and one is a sedan. They are both cars. One will haul your firewood. One will not haul a family of five. And so on. I've got both a dom and a controller (the controller being my main) and I'd have to say that both are unique little snowflakes in their own right. They both rule in some respects, and they both utterly suck in others. And if they didn't both equally suck and rock, well, there wouldn't be much point in playing any AT but that flawless one, right? Just change the name to City of Controllers, or City of Blasters and be done with it.
To make comparisons between things that are so different is pointless. You can tell me a shovel is better than a spoon until I hand you a bowl of cornflakes, but then what is your assessment? Did it change?
ATs are different. Not better or worse. No one will ever rule the universe without the others standing right next to it.
But this game is about more then one situation. See the shovel and spoon is a good example.
If the game tosses out 50 pits to dig and 50 bowls of cereal to eat, then each one is going to be really useful 1/2 the time, and really sucky the other half of the time.
However many Dom's seem to feel that they are spoon to the Controllers shovel, and the game is about 98 pits out of 100 situations.
I understand. All I can say is that they're not at my breakfast table then. Perhaps, if they're seeing pits when others are seeing bowls so often, they should question whether digging/eating is the right line of work for them.
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I understand. All I can say is that they're not at my breakfast table then. Perhaps, if they're seeing pits when others are seeing bowls so often, they should question whether digging/eating is the right line of work for them.
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There are only a certain amount of things to do in the game.
1, solo for experiance
2, team for experiance
3, quest for badges
4, complete TF/SF/Trials
5, endgame content
1, doms and controllers are close on this, controllers start better Containment is powerful at low levels, then dominators get better, and post pets controllers are better again.
2, controllers clearly better
3, Depends on badge an situation, Ill call this tie
4, Controllers better, no contest
5, controllers better, no contest
seems like its more pits than bowls. If side swithing was allowed a dom would never see a team again.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
not really, if you play them right they dont. my plant thorn does missions on highest setting with ease. its all about the way you lot your powers. dont fallow other people's ways, just do the way you want and you cn be haapy with your dominator
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Why couldn't there have been an option for mez protection like controllers get, or a buff of some sort. Those are things that would really help round out alot of dominators.
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I really, really get the feeling they hate what Controllers have become, and are very paranoid about sending Dominators down the same route in any way.
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Except that dominators aren't, and can't be, what controllers are. No fulcrum shifts here, sir.
In any case, if they are leery about "armoring up" dominators, they could add at least mez _resistance_ to dominator PPP shields.
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler