Do dominators suck like people say they do?


Aleshanee_NA

 

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If side swithing was allowed a dom would never see a team again.

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If side switching was allowed, several ATs would never see a Team again not just Doms.

Why take a Tanker when a Brute can do just as good of a job takning and do good damage on top of that.

Why take a one hit Stalker when you can have a Scrapper that can work multiple targets and tank too instead?

Looking for Heals/Buffs, why take Corruptor when you can have a Defender?

Want Damage, why take a Corruptor when you can have a Blaster or a MM.

If we are going to pick and choose, looks like a couple ATs will be looking for teams or maybe all the Tankers, Corruptors, Dominators, and Stalkers can all team up and be on their own team


 

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Why take a Tanker when a Brute can do just as good of a job takning and do good damage on top of that.

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Hah! Tankers Tank far better then Brutes. The Only way you would think that a Brute would be a better replacement for a Tank is if you think Scrappers can tank.

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Why take a one hit Stalker when you can have a Scrapper that can work multiple targets and tank too instead?

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Ah I see you do... that explains everything.


 

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Why take a Tanker when a Brute can do just as good of a job takning and do good damage on top of that.

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Hah! Tankers Tank far better then Brutes. The Only way you would think that a Brute would be a better replacement for a Tank is if you think Scrappers can tank.

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Why take a one hit Stalker when you can have a Scrapper that can work multiple targets and tank too instead?

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Ah I see you do... that explains everything.

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People like playign the fury bar-otherwise it woudl be the BRUTEs that woudl be put out of business. They cant tank anywhere close to tanker levels. They have lower defenses/resists, lower caps and less HP. Their shields are scrapper level, with a few more HP. Scraps to far more everytime, average damage too. Nope-tanks role as the damage taker is secure, as is scraps role as damage dealer.

I dont think scraps would come close to putting a sniper class like stakers out of business. They are such opposite playstyles. One is hide, sneak, run. the other is wade in an deal carnage. Far more brutish. Are brutes putting stalkers out of business???


 

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For all the Dominator fans... all I can say is you can make up a Dominator from Ice/* blaster and solo AND team better with less control (and more damage)
-- that should be the end of the lesson

and if you want more control and more damage, try Mind/Kinetics or Gravity/Kinetics

May I ask?
If I can make and Ice/Dark Corruptor perform better as a dominator is the dominator broken?

As far as roles go-- why were Burn Tanks put away for doing more damage more reliably than blasters. Why did Dark Defenders lose they're pets?

Why should another AT take your role (control and damage) and perform it better (minus the Voltron action that is Domination)

I think Domination should be given to the Blasters and Containment passed to Dominators...until they come up with a workable fix, I'll keep playing my Mind Kinetics


People sometimes tell me I'm both pessimistic and paranoid but I think that's just because all you optimists are out to get me.

 

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I've been on plenty of crossover teams in the Pocket D missions to know that Brutes can Tank just as well as a Tanker and when needed so can Scrappers.


 

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1, doms and controllers are close on this, controllers start better Containment is powerful at low levels, then dominators get better, and post pets controllers are better again.


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I guess there are some things that we'll all never agree on.

I have a level 39 grav/ff controller and a level 28 plant/psy dom. I can personally attest that the creeper my dominator got at 26 is worlds more effective than the single singularity my controller got at 32. And the creeper is that Doms' sub pet.

But this is what I was trying to say before; You can't paint with this broad of a brush and hope to be even remotely accurate in your assessment. Every AT down to their individual builds are so different from each other. To say that one whole AT is better than another is going to always be essentially wrong.

Everything.Is.Just.Too.Different.

Now, if you wanted to talk about inferior builds, that is a different story. While I'd never agree that one whole AT is insufficient, there are some builds that make Stan Lee cry.


 

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Illusion/Kinetics, Illusion/Rad Fire/Rad and Fire/Kinetics

these are the heroes of AoE control and damage on the Controller side

Cand Mind/Fire Fire/Fire or any other dominator set match them for damage or control? (and don't get started on Epics,please)


People sometimes tell me I'm both pessimistic and paranoid but I think that's just because all you optimists are out to get me.

 

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Illusion/Kinetics, Illusion/Rad Fire/Rad and Fire/Kinetics

these are the heroes of AoE control and damage on the Controller side

Cand Mind/Fire Fire/Fire or any other dominator set match them for damage or control? (and don't get started on Epics,please)

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A Fire/Fire post pets is about equal to Illusion/Rad, and Fire/Rad. You throw in the Epics/Patron Pools than I'll give it to the controllers because Dominators really got shafted on the PPP.

An Illusion/Kin & Fire/Kin is far better off than a Fire/Fire Dom because everyone knows that those combos are way overpower compared to not only to Dominators but to almost every other AT in both COV & COH especially in later levels when you add in Epic Pools. The only thing that comes close will be a Thugs/Dark MM.


 

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Controller: Control/Support
Dominator: Control/Assault

When a Dominator's assault is as valuable to a team as a Controller's support, we'll talk

Don't hold your breath, guys.


 

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Controller: Control/Support
Dominator: Control/Assault

When a Dominator's assault is as valuable to a team as a Controller's support, we'll talk

Don't hold your breath, guys.

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That's a fair assessment. But I've been on teams that needed more assault, needed more support, had too much assault and had too much support! So the question is, when is one unequivocally superior? It's situational. You may think that extra assault sucks, until that day you get on that pick up team at 2am PST (when you server is empty) and you have two controllers and four defenders.

As said before, each rocks in some respect and each sucks. It's just a question of the specifics - who, what, when, where, why - just like anything else in life. The scenario above is one that I've been in, and I would have to say without hesitation that a dominator would have been welcome over my redundant forcefields. Tony Danza killed more than that group. Some damage would have been welcome.

Edit: Assult? assassult? assasuklt??


 

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I've been on plenty of crossover teams in the Pocket D missions to know that Brutes can Tank just as well as a Tanker and when needed so can Scrappers.

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Wow... go over to the Tanker forums and say that Scrappers are just as good at tanking as a Tank. I saw somebody get chewed out BIG TIME by every tank and their brother.

Really the difference in "tanking" abilities between a brute and a scrapper..... 5% more health on the brute. So if a brute can "tank" so can a scrapper. Hehe...

Actually I take that back, I saw a scrapper get chewed out by tanks because he called himself a MINI-Tank.


 

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As said before, each rocks in some respect and each sucks.

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Some SPECIFIC types of support might be undesirable in given situations (like Force Fields in a support heavy team, as you mention). Support is such a VAST field, however, that you're going to have a hard time finding a team that can't benefit from SOME type of support or another.

Remember, support goes beyond simply protecting your friends. Offensive debuffing/offensive buffing is part and parcel of it. Sure your Force Field supporter might not have been the best choice, but a Kinetics or Radiation user would have still added plenty to the team, as they'd be enhancing EVERYONE's damage, while the Dominator would still just be adding his own damage.

If it were Dominator secondaries vs Force Field, I'd agree, each has it's place. But since it's Dominator secondaries vs Force Field/Kinetics/Radiation/Empathy/Sonic/etc, I think you'd have a hard time really pointing to a situation where SOME Controller secondary wouldn't be helping the team more than the Dominator secondary, and a few of them (Sonics, Kinetics, and Radiation at the very least), would ALWAYS be a better choice, as those three enhance the entire team's damage substantially.

That doesn't even get into the fact that if you wanted more assault, you'd be looking at things like Stalkers and Blasters, not Dominators.


 

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Really the difference in "tanking" abilities between a brute and a scrapper..... 5% more health on the brute.

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I was under the impression that while Brutes PERSONAL defenses were Scrapper-level, their defense CAPS were Tanker level. In a team situations, where buffs can come into play, that intimates to me that Brutes actually can tank better than Scrappers in the right situations, as they can have higher overall defenses.

Unless I'm just remembering horribly wrong.


 

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That's a fair assessment. But I've been on teams that needed more assault, needed more support, had too much assault and had too much support! So the question is, when is one unequivocally superior?

[/ QUOTE ] That's really not the question. Sorry if I was unclear. The question I was raising wasn't "is damage more important than support?" so much as "can a Dominator's damage be as valuable to a decent team as a Controller's support?"

I have been in small CoH teams that say "nah, we don't need a Defender, we have 2 Controllers" but I strongly suspect hell will freeze over before you hear "nah, we don't need to add a Corruptor, we have 2 Dominators"
The secondary value just isn't there.

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You may think that extra assault sucks, until that day you get on that pick up team at 2am PST (when you server is empty) and you have two controllers and four defenders.

[/ QUOTE ] Err...with anything resembling strong builds, that team should have been some serious ownage
I'm not joking. Everyone at their defensive caps and enough buffs/debuffs to make their damage quite strong. One of the strongest CoH team setups is the all-defender team. Stacking does crazy things.


For there to really be equality between Dominators and other AT's, if a Dominator has equal-value controls to a Controller, then a Dominator needs equal-value Assault to the Controller's Support. A Dominator's damage potential has to be respectable--not primary-strength, but still of quite significant value.

To be perfectly honest, I doubt the developers will bite that bullet.

Which is crazy, when you think about it...they gave a significant damage boost to a class that doesn't have damage in its primary or secondary, but a class that is designed to partially rely on doing damage isn't getting any?


 

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[snip]Unless I'm just remembering horribly wrong.

[/ QUOTE ] You are not remembering horribly wrong. With enough support, a Brute can match a Tanker in everything but HP...and depending on where the caps are, HP might be possible too, I honestly don't know.

The difference, as you already know, is that a Brute requires a pretty significant amount of support to get there.


 

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Yeah, but when villains and heroes team up to fight the ritki in their home world/dimension you know that the best teams will be Defender/Brute teams.
The brutes will hit the resist cap and have massive damage buffs . . . oh boy.


 

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Controller: Control/Support
Dominator: Control/Assault

When a Dominator's assault is as valuable to a team as a Controller's support, we'll talk

Don't hold your breath, guys.

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My new Sig, thanks dude!


People sometimes tell me I'm both pessimistic and paranoid but I think that's just because all you optimists are out to get me.

 

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Are they fun?

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they are from my perspective.

as to the rest...meh

Your Insanity May Vary...i just got paid and finally got another gamecard

/em singsong ...six guns slingin, spurs hittin the floor...


 

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I agree Malrathad, but you can't pick specifics in a game of generalization, which is the game here that I'm objecting to. And this is exactly the point I've been trying to make. Sometimes forcefields suck. Sometimes energy blast sucks. And even sometimes the more helpful support sets like kinetics can suck. Our world (even this virtual one we play in) is varied enough that everything has its Waterloo. Every street in Paragon and the Isles has the opportunity to make your abilities an Etzel, even if only temporarily. So if you generalize that all things for X are absolutely one way or the other, then at some point you're going to find yourself to be wrong.

Frankly, speaking as a grav/ff who is leveling up a plant/psy, I can't tell you how excited I am about the extra damage! But then again with that scenario I am probably one of the most likely people to disagree to the thought that doms are weaker than controllers. All this damage plus seeds of confusion that's a perma control (something my aoe hold on my grav controller isn't) that not only controls but forces them to kick the tar out of each other? Plus Carpet of Doom!?! Sold! Screw bubbles, none of them will get a shot off!

Keep in mind that it isn't that I don't see your point of view. Yes, support roles are generally more needed and favorable than "yet more" damage. Heck there's whole AT's out there who do nothing but damage, and do it far better than a dominator ever will. All I'm saying is that this generalization isn't always the case. A good dom, like a good anything, will figure out what it takes to be effective and pursue that course. And that approach will inevitably un-gimp any power set. It isn't as easy to figure out what that takes with a Dom as opposed to other ATs. But that doesn't mean it's broken, it just means it's difficult.


 

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You're right... that is a good one.


 

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Controller: Control/Support
Dominator: Control/Assault

When a Dominator's assault is as valuable to a team as a Controller's support, we'll talk

Don't hold your breath, guys.

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My new Sig, thanks dude!

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If I had sig space in mine, I would too. Great line, hopefully you don't mind me quoting it in the future.


 

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From my experiences Doms don't suck. They just aren't obvious like some of the more favored classes. Because they take more than a day to become proficient at, they are regularly deemed crappy by the general populace of A.D.D. Avengers and re-roll queens that inhabit our fare fantasy world. This also explains why Doms become less frequent as you go up in level, yet for some reason are on everyone’s friends list, persistently in demand and are often highly skilled.

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I'm really sick and tired of hearing the, "You just don't know how to play them," or the, "They take more skill to play," arguments, or any variation thereof. I really am. It's baseless justification that assumes the CoV community as a whole is inept at playing just this particular AT. There is not a single other AT in the game that has to be played to such an utter degree of perfection to be considered acceptably functional.

It's like an argument over Interpretist art. The artist decides without any base or justification that his work is the greatest work ever, and if you disagree then you "just don't get it".

Doms are not the least played AT because they're some big enigma. They're not the neglected emo kid that sits alone in the high school lunchroom because no one's taken the time to understand them.

Are they playable? Yes. Can they be effective? Yes. Are they the worst AT? It's arguable, but I think most people would answer yes. Do they need help? Yes, yes, and yes.

If you sit down and look at JUST a Dom, then they don't suck. If you line them up against any other support AT, they fail. They most certainly fail when compared to any damage-dealing AT, and if they don't do either thing well they most certainly do not become effective by doing two sub-par things at the same time. I would pick a Def, 'Troller, or Corr for any party any day for any mission or really any reason, before I would invite a Dom. Without a second thought.


 

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I agree completely. They don't suck. But they don't do what they're supposed to do as well as other ATs do what they are supposed to do.


 

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From my experiences Doms don't suck. They just aren't obvious like some of the more favored classes. Because they take more than a day to become proficient at, they are regularly deemed crappy by the general populace of A.D.D. Avengers and re-roll queens that inhabit our fare fantasy world. This also explains why Doms become less frequent as you go up in level, yet for some reason are on everyone’s friends list, persistently in demand and are often highly skilled.

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I'm really sick and tired of hearing the, "You just don't know how to play them," or the, "They take more skill to play," arguments, or any variation thereof. I really am. It's baseless justification that assumes the CoV community as a whole is inept at playing just this particular AT. There is not a single other AT in the game that has to be played to such an utter degree of perfection to be considered acceptably functional.

It's like an argument over Interpretist art. The artist decides without any base or justification that his work is the greatest work ever, and if you disagree then you "just don't get it".

Doms are not the least played AT because they're some big enigma. They're not the neglected emo kid that sits alone in the high school lunchroom because no one's taken the time to understand them.

Are they playable? Yes. Can they be effective? Yes. Are they the worst AT? It's arguable, but I think most people would answer yes. Do they need help? Yes, yes, and yes.

If you sit down and look at JUST a Dom, then they don't suck. If you line them up against any other support AT, they fail. They most certainly fail when compared to any damage-dealing AT, and if they don't do either thing well they most certainly do not become effective by doing two sub-par things at the same time. I would pick a Def, 'Troller, or Corr for any party any day for any mission or really any reason, before I would invite a Dom. Without a second thought.

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Well put and IMHO quite accurate. Maybe even a bit understated for Grav. IMHO.
Brief controls and low damage for most of a mission... is simply not as good as the alternative for most situations. Are there exceptions, sure, but too few and far between.