Pilcrow

The Faithful Fans of Fallout - a rad based SG focused on death services - has opened a chapter on Virtue. We are part of the RO network, a reasonably active coalition of SGs (primarily on Freedom and Virtue) headed by various forum-ites.

Members will find themselves with access to the RO-network, which includes:

<ul type="square">[*]Pinball Wizards - Kinetics Defenders and Controllers[*]TRICK - Trick Arrow Defenders and Controllers[*]DWEF - Electic Defenders and Blasters[*]FFoF - Rad Defenders and Controllers[*]Fortissimo - Sonic Controllers, Defenders &amp; Blasters[*]PEMS - Heal-focused Defenders[*]Apostles of RO - Hodgepodge of other ATs who like to team with the above[/list]
As you might imagine, the teams tend to be high-performing, even when they have to recruit some PuG players to round out the roster.

The SG is RP-light, but RP-supportive, the build requirements are simple, and the players are just plain fun.

So, if you've got a RAD on Virtue with a respec ready, or want to roll a new one, please consider joining us. Our full guidelines can be found in here, in our brand new little corner of the Repeat Offenders website.

Or, simply join the "Repeat Offenders" global channel (or send a global tell to @pilcrow) and we'll bring you aboard.

You will be missed, Cuppa.

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Are counting soloability by speed, or the ability to beat any challenge the game throws at you?

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An optimal combination of the two, with no interest in maximizing "beat any challenge" beyond the ability to defeat an EB, since a soloer need never encounter one unless he wants to with the new slider rules, and no interest in maximizing speed at the expense of being able to play the game for content (you cna make a BEAUTY of a zone hunter, but that grows tiresome for most).

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I was reading a guide from a couple months back that mind/kin is great for early levels, but slows down in solo-ability as the game goes on...just wondering if anyone can verify if mind/kin slows down XP-wise, post-32.

"Although it gets no pet at 32 like other control sets, it's actually faster than most controllers (illusion the obvious exception) for soloing pre-32 thanks to a moderate damage single-target attack (levitate) and a lower damage, but huge cone attack (terrify). After 32 you will probably be the slowest soloing primary in the entire game - just so you know" quoted from Breville

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Well, that's true in a sense. Mind's ST direct damage plateaus out pretty quickly, and they don't get a pet to help ameliorate that.

But, if you use Mass Confusion judiciously, yet often, it solos quite respectably. Getting Fireball from the Fire EPP can be helpful here to tag some damage on everyone confused so you get some credit for each kill as they eat one another alive. Terrify helps for that as well. Also wise for a soloing mind is "stealthing" to mission objectives (something Mind can do with Mass Hypnosis and Confuses without having to actually get stealth), and levelling fast by getting mission bonuses quickly instead of creating big heaps of dead bodies.

Illusion or Fire are going to outperform Mind, unquestionably. But I still think Mind has Ice, Earth, and Grav beat for effective soloing. YMMV.

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remember for every person you add, that's just another portion of your xp that you're losing, stick to smaller groups and you will level extremely fast.

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Every person you add to a team also adds an XP bonus, and MOBs to the mission spawns. If your team with the additional player can kill the incerased number of MOBs per spawn quickly enough, those two chunks of extra XP (XP bonus on all XP and more MOBS of XP per spawn) will outweigh the amount of XP absorbed by the new player.

I've found my XP comes quickest on large, well-formed teams for exactly this reason.

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But I don't get what benefit a "Jekyll and Hyde" AT delivers to a team?

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I think that, for this purpose, a Dominator is meant to use Domination as a bail-out measure, and live with 80% control duration as payment for the ability to have that bail-out measure. Rather than using it constantly through the mission.

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So "Hyde" is meant to be a team-bail out. If so, Domination needs to restore the HP bar to 100% as well, or Domination needs to remain up at previous values when the Dom dies. Because, current state, "Hyde" rarely bales a team out of trouble. Once the team is already in trouble, Domination makes a great way for the Dom to sacrifice himself to save the remainder of the team (if they listen when he says run- but they usually don't).

And if Hyde is meant to be beneficial only in bail-out situations, Jekyll needs to be a bit better.

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My issues with Doms are the slow start for the first 20-30 levels and the weak team contribution for a class whose PRIMARY is support. And, as much as I like the change, it doesn't seem to fix that at all.

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I agree with this, but you mentioned in another post, I believe, that you could play your Dominator "effectively" on a team with Domination up or without it. Do you feel that doms can contribute their fair share on a team if played properly, or did I misunderstand what you were saying?

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I can play a Dominator effectively on a team. Whether Domination is up or not, I sucessfully fulfill my team role of ranged crowd control with damage. There's no question that those two things I do contribute to the team's success. But I do so in "Jekyll" mode. My "Hyde" mode doesn't help me contribute to a team better for reasond discussed above.

So, let's look at the secondary question. Can my Dom contribute his fair share to a team?

Well, I think that Controls and Debuffs are both team support sets. And, by the logic of the game, if my PRIMARY is team support, I should provde MORE team support than someone whose SECONDARY is support. And I just don't feel that's true. I can contribute significnantly more to my team's success as a Corruptor than a Dominator. (Though the differntial is MUCH stronger in the early game than the late game.)

And that doesn't strike me as a "fair share" given that my PRIMARY is support and the Corruptor's SECONDARY is support.

I'm sounding more negative on Doms than I feel here, but I guess sometimes the facts just plain sound bad. I think Doms are behind in their ability to provide team support and their capabilities in the early game.

And, as "fun" as I see this change being, I don't see that it addresses that issue.

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Honestly, I think the Mr. Hyde part is, in a team situation, primarily there to make an encounter you probably could have handled turn a little easier for a while. Domination does help, but it's not something that, in normal play, the team needs from the Dom.

If you have a role in that team, then you're probably meeting it as Dr. Jekyll--that, or the team is in for a world of disappointment when your glow fades.

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That's my experience, too. If I am fulfilling a team role, it's as Dr. Jekyll.

So making Mr. Hyde more powerful - as cool and fun as it is in concept - how does that really help?

If the devs want to say "Domination isn't really meant to help Dominators with team-role much - it's for PVP, soloing, and just plain fun", I'll be right there cheering.

But then buffing Domination again isn't really a solution to the "problems" Dominators are having. I already find it great in PVP, when soloing, and I find it fun (not that the mez protection won't make my PVP experience much better, mind you).

My issues with Doms are the slow start for the first 20-30 levels and the weak team contribution for a class whose PRIMARY is support. And, as much as I like the change, it doesn't seem to fix that at all.

Maybe I should be on Quason's "gift horse" thread.

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Do you guys think if the new "improved" Domination gives Dom more defense/hp and accuracy would be too powerful?

I do agree with Pilcrow somewhat. When my Domination is on in a big team, I can still do the same job. I hold longer but I can equally spend more time to hold when I am not in Domination.

If Domination gives Dom better defense/accuracy, Doms can really go nuts and provide a lot more damage for the team (especially if we cannot hold through Purple Triangles). The only trouble is it may make Dom too powerful in PvP? We shall see....

Did they say mez protection is the only new thing added?

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I'd like to see it recharge you HP bar as well as your END bar. As for DEF and ACC, I think +DMG, +HP, +END, +MAG, +DUR is likely enough.

I wouldn't even mind not getting the +HP if death didn't kill both Domination and your Domination bar. It would be a nice synergy with Corruptors if they could rez &amp; heal you and then you turn into a tazmanian devil of destruction. There's a one-two punch to reverse a combat gone bad. But you can't do the 1-2 punch because if your Dom dies, kiss your Domination bar bye bye.

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Not true, AVs used to have no protection at all. Statesman, in a post that has since scrolled but that I had captured in Controllers: The Vision Thing, shows Statesman asking people not to accuse him of nerfing controllers again (first nerf being the PA/imp changes from minions to pets) just because the AV protection went live because he works a few issues ahead...admitting it was an overreaction...and then promising a fix. That was 7/15/04.

The triangles were the fix, to the state of perma "impossible to hold" that was in existence from 7/15/04 until the triangles went live. Before 7/15/04, AVs simply had a few more mag than Bosses.

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I could SWEAR I remember a redname specifically saying fairly recently that the triangles did nothing but add a visual cue to what was already happening...

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When the triangles were added, they were actually an improvement over the status quo - which was that AVs were pretty well immune to control 24/7.

But before they were immune to control 24/7, they were vulnerable to it 24/7.

Neither situation (essentially immune to control, essentially trivialized by control) was acceptable. But the triangle thing is just plain silly. The devs know it, too, or we'd all have little triangles in PVP. Why they haven't gone back and given AVs suppression and breakfrees and removed the triangles is beyond me.

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What Dominators need is an always on damage increase. Having an entire secondary devoted to damage, but which in fact does insignificant damage, is a waste. If we pay for this by losing our damage bonus in Domination, thats fine by me.

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QFT

If one could do Domination-level damage consistantly and just not have it increase when Domination was popped, it would be a glorious change indeed.

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The problem is if you lock down a group of MOBs, you are going to do damage to them at almost ZERO risk. If you did Domination-style damage all the time, Dominators would be too good.

While I think the complaints about Dominators being too dependent on Domination are valid, I'm beginning to believe this is the same as complaining that broccoli tastes like broccoli. Dominators were designed to be a jekyll and hyde type of AT (thanks to Positron for the analogy). People are either going to love it or hate it.

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My concern with the whole "Jekyll and Hyde" thing is this.

Essentially, this means the team carries you while you build Domination, and then you can repay the favor by carrying the team when you click Domination. OK, sounds like it makes sense on paper.

Only, you don't really have the power to carry the team through anything with Domination that they can't carry themselves through already.

<ul type="square">[*]AV encounters: Control nuetered when triangle up. When down, you don't need Domination to punch through.[*]Elite Bosses/Bosses: You don't need Domination to defeat these guys. You can control them without Domination, and your team must have sufficient damage to defeat them or you wouldn't have Domination built up.[*]Combat gone wrong: Domination doesn't jab your HPs back up, so go ahead and hit Domination, then die and have it go away[/list]
No question, when Domination clicked, you are THE MAN. Even moreso after these changes. But, given the limitations on Domination, what good does being THE MAN have for the team?

That's an honest question, not a rhetorical one. I must be missing something.

I see the beauty of it in PVP. I enjoy the FEELING it gives me in PVE. I know how to play my Dom effecitvely on a team to the benefit of everyone (whether Dom is down or up).

But I don't get what benefit a "Jekyll and Hyde" AT delivers to a team?

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Well, that's the problem -- even three doms on a team cannot lockdown an AV with triangles.

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You -are- aware that triangles don't make an AV harder to lock down, right? They only represent how much resistance the AV already has/has left.

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This is not true. Triangles down? Boss level Mag protection.
Triangles up? appears to be 50-99 mag protection.

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...but they're not -doing- anything except showing what already is and what already was on the old av/ebs before they were added. The only thing the triangles going in changed was letting you see that the mob had a high protection and lets you see if you're close to breaking through it.

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Not true, AVs used to have no protection at all. Statesman, in a post that has since scrolled but that I had captured in Controllers: The Vision Thing, shows Statesman asking people not to accuse him of nerfing controllers again (first nerf being the PA/imp changes from minions to pets) just because the AV protection went live because he works a few issues ahead...admitting it was an overreaction...and then promising a fix. That was 7/15/04.

The triangles were the fix, to the state of perma "impossible to hold" that was in existence from 7/15/04 until the triangles went live. Before 7/15/04, AVs simply had a few more mag than Bosses.

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Protection vs. Knockback, Knock Up, Repel, Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, Confuse and Fear. Pretty much the whole suite.

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Cataloguing, this means that two out of six Hero Archetypes will have some form of major status protection available archetype-wide, namely Tankers and Scrappers, and three out of five Villains will, namely Brutes, Stalkers and Dominators.

Hmm...

Any chance of putting something like this into Defiance to even up the numbers?

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If we need to even up the numbers, the place to put Squishie Mez Resistance on the CoH side is Defenders.

An almost dead Blaster breaking mez isn't going to be able to pull a team's fanny out of the fire, and while Controllers could pull the team's fanny out - so can Defenders. And they need the boost more. And it will work quite well thematically with Vengeance to have ever increasing mez resistance as your team gets more and more pummelled (not that it wouldn't work thematically for Defiance).

Looks like Kineticists have just become the Dominator's best friends.

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I've heard a number of quality solutions proposed to the problem of early-game performance problems for Dominators, including:
[*]Messing with the AT modifiers so they START at, say 0.8 and slowly work their way down to 0.65 by level 25 or so

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Um... we already have higher damage scales than that.
We drop to .65 at 25, but start at .93 (ranged).

Damage Scalars

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I'm aware of that, so let me be more precise in my wording.

Have the Damage Scalar for a Dominator at Range and at Melee be the same as for a Tanker at melee for the first 20 levels, then, between levels 20 and 25, have the scalar shift from the melee Tanker's level 20 value (87% of Blaster BI at that point vs. the 65% [ranged] or 75% [melee] it is currently by level 20 for Doms) to the current scalars Dominators use from levels 25-50.

But that's a real mouthful.

The gist is simply to put Dominators on the Tanker melee scalar until level 20, then downgrade them towards their original scalars from 20-25. And I should have said that instead of implying it via reference to 0.8.

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[ QUOTE ][*]Having some or all of the +100% damage from Domination tied to the size of the Domination bar instead of the clicking of the Domination button (more helpful early game because the +DMG buff is a bigger deal in early levels before SOs)

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AFAIK, that's 75% (37.5% after SO's), not 100%.

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I expect you're right about the 75%. I think I swapped the duraiton increase and the damage increase in my mind.

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We've got a nice tweak to the Domination ability coming down the pipe (it will crank up your Mez resistance while it is active), and are currently data-mining PvP to see what effect our last set of tweaks to the AT have had.

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Hey, I can't complain about that change, but what are you doing to address the poor early-game performance of Dominators?

Is poor Dominator early-game performance a complaint you consider to be "credible" or "blown out of proportion"?

Personally, I see it as very credible. And given that poor early-game performance was reason enough for you to radically revamp controllers (eliminating pet armies and adding containment), it seems to me that Dominators deserve no less attention to their early game problems (although it will likely take less radical solutions).

I've heard a number of quality solutions proposed to the problem of early-game performance problems for Dominators, including:

<ul type="square">[*]Put Dominators (ranged and melee) on the Tanker (melee) scalar until level 20, then downgrade them towards their original (ranged and melee) scalars from 20-25. So they START at Tanker levels of damage output and slowly work their way down to Dominator levels by level 25 or so.[*]Rearranging the assault sets so the heavy-hitting short-range/melee powers all show up by within the first 6 powers in the set and the later powers are the more ranged powers instead of the more damaging ones - frontloads damage to the early game where we need it, but still gives us something (range) to look forward to in the sets[*]Having some or all of the +75% damage from Domination tied to the size of the Domination bar instead of the clicking of the Domination button (more helpful early game because the +DMG buff is a bigger deal in early levels before SOs)[*]Increasing the Dominator ranged damage multiplier to be the same as Corruptors[*]Raising the Dominator melee damage multiplier significantly, to 0.9 or so[*]Changing the DoTs in the Dominator primaries to instant damage[*]Making control the Dominator Secondary and Assualt the Dominator Primary[*]Some combination of the above items[/list]
Not that I care HOW you solve it, so much as THAT you solve it.

Still, glad to see you are paying attention to Dominators. Thanks for the update.

FWIW, here's my take on ED. Opinion worked happily into facts in this one folks, you want just the facts, look at the previous posts.

Enhancement Diversification does the following things for the game:

<ul type="square">[*]#1) It kept players from getting as close to their caps as they used to, so buffs would be more wanted[*]#2) It significantly nerfed all "One Trick Pony" Powers like many armor powers, Stamina, Hasten that people were getting instead of using similar enhancements in their powers[*]#3) It created a smaller range of performance between a casual build and the min/max build[*]#4) It decreased burst damage significantly, while leaving sustained DPS within about 10-15% of what it was before[*]#5) It prevented SOs from having such a significant effect in terms of MOB/PC balance[*]#6) It corrected some of the excesses caused by offering mixed-mode enhancers like HOs[/list]
So, the question of whether or not you think ED was positive is really a question about what you think about all these things. Did you think that SOs were too large an increase in power? Were min/maxxers really breaking the curve? Were HOs overpowered? Was burst damage a problem? Did people have too much defense? Etc.

Since I think some of those things needed to be done, and others were already working fine before ED, I’m ambivalent about ED.

One of the things that annoys me about ED is how it could have met some of these objectives SO MUCH better than it does.

For example:

#1) One of the best ways to keep enhancers from causing people to hit their caps is to have enhancer act as increases in the BASE value of the power instead of as buffs on the power. If enhancers worked as an increase to the BASE value of a power, buffs are always useful, and buffs are stronger too because they have more base to buff. You'd have to mess with the caps and the base buff values to balance it all out, which is more work, but also a much more effective way to accomplish that goal, if that was really an important goal to meet.

#2) Certainly SOME one-trick pony powers needed to be nerfed. Hasten and Stamina come screaming to mind. But was there really a problem with how fast you could make hover and fly go pre-ED? Was the massive 13% RES a Scrapper could squeeze out of resist physical damage post I5 a problem? I don't think so. This strikes me as a place where direct nerfs to the powers in question would have been a much better way to handle things than ED. Either that, or the delivery of ED and some countermanding buffs at the same time (like putting movement enhancers on schedule C or D, for example).

#3) This is the place I am most frustrated with ED. If this goal was really intended (and it was), then you need to not only beat down the bonus from the 5th and 6th enhancement, but also put BONUSES on the 1st enhancers. Give us a true sliding scale like one of the following and you will have both narrowed the min/max gap but also made ED decisions REAL decisions (instead of slot 3 and skate):

Instead of a sliding scale of 1x, 1x, 0.85x, 0.15x, 0.15x, 0.15x
Use a sliding scale of 1.25x, 1.0x, 0.75x, 0.5x, 0.25x, 0.125x

SOs still at 33.3% (net 6% power boost for Schedule A)
<ul type="square">[*] 1 SO = 41.6 (vs. 33.3 for ED)[*] 2 SO = 75 (vs. 66.6 for ED) [*] 3 SO = 100 (vs. 95 for ED) [*] 4 SO = 116.6 (vs. 100 for ED) [*] 5 SO = 125 (vs. 105 for ED) [*] 6 SO = 129.15 (vs. 110 for ED)[/list]or
SOs still at 30% (net 0% power boost for Schedule A)
<ul type="square">[*] 1 SO = 37.5 (vs. 33.3 for ED)[*] 2 SO = 67.5 (vs. 66.6 for ED)[*] 3 SO = 90 (vs. 95 for ED)[*] 4 SO = 105 (vs. 100 for ED)[*] 5 SO = 112.5 (vs. 105 for ED)[*] 6 SO = 116.25 (vs. 110 for ED)[/list]
#4) I think that taking an edge of burst damage was a good thing, and that ED did a pretty good job of this objective if viewed in microcosm (in macrocosm, it has a lot of side effects for this one thing it does well). I do think the END reduction was a bit chincy to really make this work though. Since the battles are longer, then it should have been a bit more than the amount lost due to stamina acting under ED.

#5) This is another objective met better on a more sliding scale that begins with a bonus. I'm among those who is mostly happier that the game is harder as a result of I5/ED. But I wish they would invest some of the time they spent on I5/ED on making more factions as tough as the TSOO and MALTA, and those guys are hard because they have such a variety of abilities in their LTs and Bosses, not because it's hard to overcome their HPs. I guess the recent AV changes show they don't find this avenue pursuable for some reason. *SIGH*

#6) Would be great, if they had actually introduced some new enhancers by now. Where are the 50% enhancers we were promised? How 'bout a reverse of the nerf on the dual aspect HOs, guys? Can you please implement some of the clever, interesting and fun ideas in the Consolidated Enhancement Ideas Thread? C'mon guys, you SAID we suffered ED so we could have this kind of thing, it's been 7 months. Time to deliver.

In short I give ED a B+ for Concept and a C- for execution.

But execution can be fixed! If the devs took on just #2 and #3, ED would be a TON better.

Thus ends my monthly rant on ED's shortcomings. Please check your listings for our next scheduled meltdown.

EDIT: Ran through a spell checker. I honestly am a much better Speller/Grammarian than my posts would indicate, but I'm a horrid typist.

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isn't it /respec ?

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AAARGH! Typo. And too late to edit!

Thanks for noticing and letting people know though.

Cryptic offered a weekend pass to the new players, but a lot has changed, so here's what you need to know, in as brief a space as possible...

<ul type="square">[*]You have a Freespec available on all your characters. You can unlock it by typing /respc from anywhere in the game.[*]Enhancement Diversification happened while you were gone. The essential rule is after you've gone past level 25 (and are getting Single Origin (SO) Enhancers) do not slot more than three of the same SO enhancement in the same power. So dump that 4th and 5th Damage or Damage resistance or whatever enhancer, and get something different instead (or take the slots out of the power entirely). Previous to SOs, 6 slotting is still worthwhile.[*]END costs were reduced at the same time so, if you want to spend one of those slots that you can't use for damage anymore for END REDUX, you can probably dump stamina. Or you can slot recharge enhancers and dump hasten. And if you're a melee character, you might want to spend those slots on getting tough and weave to make up for some of what happened in the next bullet.[*]There was also a *massive* defensive rollback/increase in XP for MOBs - So stop going after purples and reds and go after yellows and oranges instead. If you are on invincible, knock your difficulty down to, say, rugged for a while until you know better what con-levels your character can take on.[*] You can get the Prima Strategy Guide to the game for FREE, which will help you a lot as well. [*]PVP is pretty easy to engage in, just go to Siren's Call (you will be automatically set to level 30) (entrance in stell canyone IIRC) and go to the nearest hotspot on the map and you'll be PVPing before you know what hit you. It's best to try to join a team because the zone is full of stealthy, tough opponents who can 2 shot you if you aren't working at it (rogue class essentially). Just tell the team you're new and they'll tell you the tactics you need to do OK. Katana/Regen should do pretty well in the zone if you just keep moving.[/list]

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Tried a Mayhem mission.
Will avoid them in the future.
Why?
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TARGET JACK !
I spent more time cycleing thru civilians, lamp posts, cockroaches then fighting - meanwhile 20 MOBs are blowing me to hell.

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That kind of deserves a separate suggestions thread. It would be nice if "target_enemy_next" etc. worked as before and there was also a "target_object_next" just like there is a "target_friend_next".

Maybe ~ and shift ~ for targeting objects, and leave targeting allies for people to bind themselves.

&lt;----not villain enough. My highest is barely 30.

But I may lurk. Sounds very interesting!

A whole year of subsciption! That's enough to upgrade my video card!

Simple good fun

/signed

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It's the penguins, I tell you.

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Oh! The Penguinity!

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Where are these awards people keep talking about?

[/ QUOTE ] Hero Choice Award Winners

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Seems that the inability to sense a joke is contageous.

Soon, I, too, may be unable to detect sarcasm.

Oh, the humanity!

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Every AT thinks it is getting short shrift. 3/5 have to be wrong about that.

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I think the above means the Kheldians are right.

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/em slaps hand to chest

Ooooooooo. Ya got me

/em kippers onto back melodramatically, twitches legs, feigns death