Forced teaming makes me sad
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2011-11-04 07:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I can understand the reasons for doing things the way they are, but understanding won't make me any happier. I'm never going to cheer once-for-the-badge content. There are just some of us who don't consider playing with a large group of strangers fun. Some of us have issues that make teaming a pain. Forex, I have motion sickness issues that make the standard 'scream through the map as fast as possible' team playstyle an adventure in nausea. So for me, forced team content is something to be endured, not enjoyed.
"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."
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Huh even on beta, you can still enter the special zone on pocket d, without a team. |
Originally Posted by Agent White
Yeah I hate how they've gated hunting Winter Lords in Paragon and the Rogue Isles and the Ski Chalet and Father Time behind the LFG with those huge team sizes. Must be terrible to not get to play in any kind of Winter event because of being forced to team for it.
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So no issue for the ski chalet or for some of the special missions like solo the "eb" lady winter mission. Don't confuse it with the other event.......
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It was sarcasm. Those events are completely accessible to solo and small team players and no one is forcing anyone to team up for them, so while there is *one* experience for the Winter 2011 event that will be gated behind the LFG queue, the rest is free for anyone with just as many unique experiences and even more practical rewards. |
Originally Posted by darksilver_NA
Huh even on beta, you can still enter the special zone on pocket d, without a team.
So no issue for the ski chalet or for some of the special missions like solo the "eb" lady winter mission. Don't confuse it with the other event....... |
People are treating it as if its the end of everything and this one event being gated is going to ruin the Winter event. It will not. If you have to miss out on the event because you can't or don't want to do it, then you have several other viable options for an entertaining experience during the Winter event.
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No, they really aren't.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
People are treating it as if its the end of everything
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Originally Posted by Agent White
If you have to miss out on the event because you can't or don't want to do it, then you have several other viable options for an entertaining experience during the Winter event.
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Myself, I wasn't here last year so I don't know. However I dislike the trend.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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I will never understand how "massive multiplayer online role playing game" somehow translates into you are forced to team to get anything done to some people. To me it simply means the world is a living thing with more than one person playing in it at the same time. Nowhere in the term MMORPG do I see anything about teaming AT ALL.
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Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
Welcome to City of Heroes. City of Heroes is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game. As such, most of the newer content is designed for multiple teams. And I, for one, say it's about time. If you do not like teaming, perhaps a MMOG is not best suited for you.
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Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Yet, team-heavy people get to do all of that content as well. It's not like you get to choose to either do the open world, content that allows soloing and small groups OR the specific large group mission, but instead you have one group that can do all the content, and another that does not get access to a big chunk of it.
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Originally Posted by Agent White
Yeah I hate how they've gated hunting Winter Lords in Paragon and the Rogue Isles and the Ski Chalet and Father Time behind the LFG with those huge team sizes. Must be terrible to not get to play in any kind of Winter event because of being forced to team for it.
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subject to change
*sits and waits*
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Stopped right there. The problem in a nutshell is once again the limitations of the team up teleporter and LFG system.|
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
The problem with changing the team up teleporter to 8 is that the event will start every time with 8.
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They need to FIX THAT and other issues before shoehorning more content into it.
Let's get a more functional pug multi team tool before trying to shoehorn in more pug multi team content.
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I'd argue its because they don't want to stand around with their thumbs up their behinds for an unknown amount of time, with no further way to enter any instances, and no way to know how many are in the queue and no way to know that ACTUAL REALISTIC start times of those event.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I actually think it's that most people don't use it Sam. I've talked to people who want to join in on a trial but they never use the LFG to do it. Some it seems out of fear of PuGing, some because they know they can just go to certain zones to find one forming.
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In short form they'd rather not waste their valuable playtime with a useless tool.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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you could solo the old praetorians when they spawned as archvillians? Actually prior to the introduction of the av to eb conversion based on your difficulty settings, the entire blueside endgame was forced teaming. almost every contact handed out story arcs with avs sprinkled liberally with them, and even my static team of 2 rl friends and i often had a slog getting through them. soloing them pre ios would have been close to impossible for many builds(unless you hami raided before hami-os were reduced, but non-leeching hami raids were even larger team events.)
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
They would.
I'm also calling shenanigans on 'It's an MMO!, zomfg you HAVE to team!' If that were true, it should have been true seven years ago. This game has never been impossible solo, even when Blind Jack was at the helm. You go trying to change that seven years on, yeah, you BET people are going to get annoyed. |
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And that was BAD. And so they changed it.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
you could solo the old praetorians when they spawned as archvillians? Actually prior to the introduction of the av to eb conversion based on your difficulty settings, the entire blueside endgame was forced teaming. almost every contact handed out story arcs with avs sprinkled liberally with them, and even my static team of 2 rl friends and i often had a slog getting through them. soloing them pre ios would have been close to impossible for many builds(unless you hami raided before hami-os were reduced, but non-leeching hami raids were even larger team events.)
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Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Indeed, the entire ability to downgrade AVs to EBs was sold as a response to this aspect of "forced teaming" that appeared much earlier in what was then new CoV content. Circa I6, AVs in regular CoH story arcs appeared primarily in the 40+ game. AVs in CoV's standard arcs start appearing in the 30s, and Statesman presented the ability to turn them into EBs as a response to the frequent forum complaints about how that acted as a progress block to people that couldn't or didn't want to find a team.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
As I think about it more, a 12-person minimum is an odd number, are we sure they're actually going to run with this? I can see an 8-man, and 16-man minimum. Still, you could always form the league in advance and have the leader start it up just like how most incarnate trials are formed - you don't *have* to wait in the LFG queue for an eternity (although the LFG tool does seem to be working a bit better lately).
My guess is that the minimum-required players are an unfortunate side-effect of the LFG queue. Also look at why they're moving it to the LFG tool. Are they doing it to make it more accessible to the greatest number of people? Are they using it as a balancing tool that couldn't be implemented in the old system? (i.e. no Incarnate powers)
Unrelated side note: As for 4th Edition D&D, I wasn't a big fan of it. It homogenized all of the professions, and lost most of the D&D flavor. What's left is a passable roleplaying system, but there are non-Wizard roleplaying games that do a much better job. If you want something that still feels like D&D, look at Pathfinder instead.
You can team, or play solo. However, all content might not be soloable. Cry about it as much as you like - but its still not "forced" teaming.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
It's certainly off topic, but I agree about 4th ed D&D. It feels like D&D console edition.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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In an amusing twist, I had a radio mission send me to the beam in Peregrine at lunch today. Was what occurred within real or fake? |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
It does. Well sort of. I think it's weird to object to the beam in the context it has been given, but I understand objecting to that context itself.
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(Note that I found it humorously fitting that I was facing the new CoT.)
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No one has said that you must team to get everything done. The vast majority of the content in City of Heroes is completely soloable. However, there is some content that does and should require teams to do, and I find it completely unfathomable how someone could complain about that, since... you know... City of Heroes is a massively multiplayer online game.|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
I will never understand how "massive multiplayer online role playing game" somehow translates into you are forced to team to get anything done to some people. To me it simply means the world is a living thing with more than one person playing in it at the same time. Nowhere in the term MMORPG do I see anything about teaming AT ALL.
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No one has to do everything in the game. If you don't want to team, then don't run the content that requires teams! No, you're not being biased against, because as I stated above, the vast majority of the game's content is soloable. Why should those that do want to team be punished by those who feel that they should be able to solo everything?
Personally, I spend half my time soloing, and half my time in large teams. I don't like small teams. Yet you didn't hear me complain about the Halloween trial, which was limited to teams of four.
@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too
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More like eat the sandwich your mother made you or go hungry. She will not make you a special sandwich with the crusts cut off just because you are picky.
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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Wrong. They are asking for the game to cater to them AS WELL AS to those who like large team group content, for example.
It's not "You have a sandwich. I want a sandwich. Ima take your sandwich", it's 'You have a sandwich, I want a sandwich. Let's BOTH have a sandwich!" We have scaling tech. Use it. Eco |
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I'm going to quote you again... read YOUR OWN WORDS... and then see if you can figure out why I have issue with them... here's a hint... it's not because I dislike teaming or even content that requires teams.|
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
No one has said that you must team to get everything done. The vast majority of the content in City of Heroes is completely soloable. However, there is some content that does and should require teams to do, and I find it completely unfathomable how someone could complain about that, since... you know... City of Heroes is a massively multiplayer online game.
No one has to do everything in the game. If you don't want to team, then don't run the content that requires teams! No, you're not being biased against, because as I stated above, the vast majority of the game's content is soloable. Why should those that do want to team be punished by those who feel that they should be able to solo everything? Personally, I spend half my time soloing, and half my time in large teams. I don't like small teams. Yet you didn't hear me complain about the Halloween trial, which was limited to teams of four. |
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Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord Welcome to City of Heroes. City of Heroes is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game. As such, most of the newer content is designed for multiple teams. And I, for one, say it's about time. If you do not like teaming, perhaps a MMOG is not best suited for you. |
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Originally Posted by Seek_Trouble
More like eat the sandwich your mother made you or go hungry. She will not make you a special sandwich with the crusts cut off just because you are picky.
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Well, the game isn't your mother doing things out of love. It's more like a business doing things for money...
So it's like if you ordered a hamburger with no pickles and the kid at the counter said "No, you can't have that just because you're picky" so people took their money elsewhere.
Oh, wait, that already happened and the game had to go F2P.
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When people don't like something, they call what they do criticism. When people don't like the criticism, they call it 'crying'.|
Originally Posted by ItsJustJake
You can team, or play solo. However, all content might not be soloable. Cry about it as much as you like - but its still not "forced" teaming.
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All content might not be soloable - That's absolutely fine. You are missing the point of the complaint. Which is not that the content needs to be completable solo, but that it needs to not have minimum start requirements (or if that's for some strange reason not allowed, minumums that are much lower).
After all, we already have content with a minimum start requirement of 1 which isn't soloable.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Can you explain how reducing the minumim start requirements for content but leaving everything else as it is would punish you or your preferred playstyle?|
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
Why should those that do want to team be punished by those who feel that they should be able to solo everything?
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Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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She sounds like a terrible mother. What if I have an allergy to whatever she decides I'm to have in my sandwich?|
Originally Posted by Seek_Trouble
More like eat the sandwich your mother made you or go hungry. She will not make you a special sandwich with the crusts cut off just because you are picky.
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Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Maybe he really likes to team with people who doesn't want to be there?
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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Can you explain how reducing the minumim start requirements for content but leaving everything else as it is would punish you or your preferred playstyle?
Eco |
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
... And all that about role-playing just by logging in? Not quite. I'm sure the role-players over on Union or Virtue would have a few things to say about your definition.
I'm also calling shenanigans on 'It's an MMO!, zomfg you HAVE to team!'
If that were true, it should have been true seven years ago. This game has never been impossible solo, even when Blind Jack was at the helm. You go trying to change that seven years on, yeah, you BET people are going to get annoyed.