Forced teaming makes me sad
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2011-11-04 07:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I'm all for team based content providing the quicker path to rewards.
I do however believe there should be solo and smaller scale team content that provide a VIABLE (for example shards are NOT a solo viable method for advancing incarnate progression) alternative to the large scale teaming that might be slower but still provide a method for those who prefer solo and smaller scale content to engage in progression at a REASONABLE pace.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
Quote:
Wanna' bet?
|
Originally Posted by Seek_Trouble
More like eat the sandwich your mother made you or go hungry. She will not make you a special sandwich with the crusts cut off just because you are picky.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
And by "Team or else!" you mean team or else do the other 99% of the game that does not require teaming!|
Originally Posted by Bright
It does if you're trying to use the "MM" part of MMO to justify a "Team or else!" point of view.
|
I would bet if there were a single holiday mission that required a written out bio for your character the world would also not end.
Quote:
And yet, the view that "if you don't want to do the team content, you don't belong in this game." was presented.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
And by "Team or else!" you mean team or else do the other 99% of the game that does not require teaming!
I would bet if there were a single holiday mission that required a written out bio for your character the world would also not end. |
Unsurprisingly, people protest this.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
Join a team, run it once, and then feel relieved of it until next year.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
Quote:
That might be a good comparison if I gave my mom a paycheck. At a restaurant, I do expect the crusts cut off if I ask.
|
Originally Posted by Seek_Trouble
More like eat the sandwich your mother made you or go hungry. She will not make you a special sandwich with the crusts cut off just because you are picky.
|
All this team vs no team is an foolish tangent that has nothing to do with the main point.
Which is that minimum can reasonably be lowered to 8 on LFG the Holiday content without hurting anything, AND that they CAN keep the old way of starting the even without hurting anything.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
I'd go further to argue that the minimum start requirements for everything can be totally done away with without hurting anything.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
All this team vs no team is an foolish tangent that has nothing to do with the main point.
Which is that minimum can reasonably be lowered to 8 on LFG the Holiday content without hurting anything, AND that they CAN keep the old way of starting the even without hurting anything. |
It's not like everyone who likes teaming up for TFs or trials or anything else is suddenly going to abandon teaming, is it?
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
Quote:
Odd, but I didn't say anything even suggesting this. In fact, I said it was a good thing for the game to have some content requiring teams. |
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
I can understand what your saying Doc but the devs cant base every single thing they add to the game on how it will affect a small percentage that can only be on line from 2AM till 5AM on the lowest populated server.
If they did absolutely everything would be designed to only be soloed.. Like it or not the game is designed around players teaming. |
Then again, it seems to be the theme of this thread. No matter what someone actually says, you're either a soloist or a teamer, and no one can support both.
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
Quote:
I think you'll find the 'soloists' in this particular thread are fully in support of teaming. I'm one of the hated 'soloists', and yet I'm not advocating nerfing AVs or any other content change to anything apart from ditching the minimum start reqs, which as far as I can see do nothing to change team-centric playets plYstyle (they already lile teaming) but either exclude soloists or forve them to change their preferred way of playingbin order to see content. The phrase 'forced teaming' is a hot one, but what purpose does a minimum start requirement serve other than to literally enforce a team to form in order to start it?|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
Odd, but I didn't say anything even suggesting this. In fact, I said it was a good thing for the game to have some content requiring teams.
Then again, it seems to be the theme of this thread. No matter what someone actually says, you're either a soloist or a teamer, and no one can support both. |
People who say 'you're not forced to team if you dont want to; just dont play the content' miss the point. The point at which I am forced to team comes after I've made the decision to see the content. At that point, I am strippedcof choice aboit how I can enter. Which shouldn't happen.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
Quote:
They're afraid that without the carrot/stick to pull everyone else in, they won't be able to get a large group to do it.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
I'd go further to argue that the minimum start requirements for everything can be totally done away with without hurting anything.
It's not like everyone who likes teaming up for TFs or trials or anything else is suddenly going to abandon teaming, is it? |
Inconvenience the many to appease the few.
Quote:
Here's the thing, though: People are already paranoid about starting tasks without the absolute maximum number of people you can shove in them. For instance:|
Originally Posted by rsclark
They're afraid that without the carrot/stick to pull everyone else in, they won't be able to get a large group to do it.
|
You can start a DFB with as few as four people. I've run it with four and it was very easy. Yet time and again, I see people broadcast "DFB lf4m!" for half an hour, after having sat in Help for a while and know that this DFB team already has four members. They have enough people to start, but they're willing to waste another half hour looking for the remaining four.
I'm not sure people need much coercion to look for max size teams when said people are inclined to look for teams to begin with.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
See, this always confuses me, and it's a perspective I've seen players toss out as well. It seems self-defeating. I mean, really...if I'm putting together a group, I would rather have people that wanted to be involved and part of the group. Especially when you consider that a very small portion of your group, or even a single player, can massively screw things up for the entire League in some of these situations, why on Earth would I want people who didn't want to be involved in the first place?
|
Originally Posted by rsclark
They're afraid that without the carrot/stick to pull everyone else in, they won't be able to get a large group to do it.
|
Quote:
I've run DFB with 4 people as well. It can be more difficult to complete it with just 4 people. And seeing as how in another thread there's talk of "If I cant be 100% sure I can complete it on every go, I won't do it" what makes you think lower level content is any different?|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Here's the thing, though: People are already paranoid about starting tasks without the absolute maximum number of people you can shove in them. For instance:
You can start a DFB with as few as four people. I've run it with four and it was very easy. Yet time and again, I see people broadcast "DFB lf4m!" for half an hour, after having sat in Help for a while and know that this DFB team already has four members. They have enough people to start, but they're willing to waste another half hour looking for the remaining four. I'm not sure people need much coercion to look for max size teams when said people are inclined to look for teams to begin with. |
4 members = chance to fail it.
8 members = 100% success!
And that's why you see people making sure they have full teams.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I've done a DfB with three people successfully. The fourth quit when he saw there were only 4 people on the team. Wasn't easy but we did it.
Quote:
How is it even possible to fail DfB? Especially given that the bosses get neutered with only four people anyway. I'm just...trying to fathom how that works. Were you, like, four Peacebringers, or something?
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I've run DFB with 4 people as well. It can be more difficult to complete it with just 4 people. And seeing as how in another thread there's talk of "If I cant be 100% sure I can complete it on every go, I won't do it" what makes you think lower level content is any different?
|
Quote:
Same. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I've done a DfB with three people successfully. The fourth quit when he saw there were only 4 people on the team. Wasn't easy but we did it.
|
I was on Exalted Tuesday afternoon and decided to run through a quick DfB with Tamlin (lvl 12 DOed Archery/Ice blaster). We started with five... One left as soon as he saw the rest of the group. (We had no melee types. I guess that scared him.
) Another quit the team immediately after we got the Vahz badge. The remaining three of us... two blasters and a corruptor... went on to complete the trial. It took us awhile to kill the hydra heads and the Lost were a bit of a pain in the butt, but it still went pretty well considering.
So, yeah. There's no way you have to have six or eight people to get through that thing. People are just being silly if they insist otherwise.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
Waits for the post from someone who did the DfB trial solo...
Quote:
I haven't seen that, but a couple of weeks ago I was making a lot of new alts and was frequently queuing for DFB solo. After a few minutes the dialog would come up with the count. On Exalted typically everyone accepted and away we went. But on Freedom if there were only four to six players two or three of them would decline and the trial would fail to start.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You can start a DFB with as few as four people. I've run it with four and it was very easy. Yet time and again, I see people broadcast "DFB lf4m!" for half an hour, after having sat in Help for a while and know that this DFB team already has four members. They have enough people to start, but they're willing to waste another half hour looking for the remaining four.
|
One of the times the trial did launch with just four players two of them ditched us in the middle of the Lost tunnels. Me and the other guy toughed it out to the end, eventually beating the Hydras between the two of us.
I just don't get it. This trial is trivial with four. The only "hard" part is the very end, and that's only hard before you realize that you just can't stand there frozen in one spot.
Quote:
I've soloed the Hydra while the rest of the team was lying around begging for wakies. *sigh*|
Originally Posted by Indiramourning
Waits for the post from someone who did the DfB trial solo...
|
I could juuust about keep up with its regen rate, too. It didn't heal, but I wasn't hurting it either.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
Quote:
Although I haven't worried about it myself, what I keep hearing from others when a DFB has started with few people is not concern about failure but the fact that the rewards are less. If you don't have a large enough team to spawn AVs you don't get many SOs.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Here's the thing, though: People are already paranoid about starting tasks without the absolute maximum number of people you can shove in them. For instance:
You can start a DFB with as few as four people. I've run it with four and it was very easy. Yet time and again, I see people broadcast "DFB lf4m!" for half an hour, after having sat in Help for a while and know that this DFB team already has four members. They have enough people to start, but they're willing to waste another half hour looking for the remaining four. I'm not sure people need much coercion to look for max size teams when said people are inclined to look for teams to begin with. |
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
Quote:
That would make for a pretty entertaining video, I suspect. |
Originally Posted by Indiramourning
Waits for the post from someone who did the DfB trial solo...
|
"And then, all the zombies barfed on me... All of them... It sucked."
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
Quote:
That's really all this is. Heroes teaming up for a task that is of a magnitude that requires it. This is nothing new to CoH. Since their inception, Task Forces (not including MA arcs, Ouroboros Flashbacks, and SSAs, none of which are actually Task Forces) have always required a team in order to start them. |
Originally Posted by GibsonMcCoy
That's why Spiderman can team up with The Avengers for a few issues, yet still go back to being Spidey. Because teaming does not always mean fun.
|
Yep, you can find a group willing to help you start a TF and ask them to leave the team after it starts so you can solo it, but that hasn't changed either. If you can find 11 people to help you start the trial and leave, and you are up to the challenge, go for it. If someone does though, please don't whine that it's too hard to solo. That's already a known fact. It's intentional. It's the way it's designed to work.
- Garielle
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
|
Quote:
I'll go ahead and repeat my stance on this; I'm not whining that anything is too difficult to solo. I'm whining that there are things that have minimum start requirements. As you've pointed out, we can attempt to solo a TF already by getting padders to start and then having all but one quit the TF. The minimums are stupid. They should do aweay with them completely and add some sort of popup or text warning to the effect of 'WARNING - THE RECOMMENDED TEAM SIZE NEEDED TO COMPLETE THIS IS X - TEAMS UNDER THIS SIZE ARE NOT GUARANTEED TO BE ABLE TO COMPLETE IT' to head off any 'waah you let me start but its too hard!' complaints.|
Originally Posted by Garielle
That's really all this is. Heroes teaming up for a task that is of a magnitude that requires it. This is nothing new to CoH. Since their inception, Task Forces (not including MA arcs, Ouroboros Flashbacks, and SSAs, none of which are actually Task Forces) have always required a team in order to start them.
Yep, you can find a group willing to help you start a TF and ask them to leave the team after it starts so you can solo it, but that hasn't changed either. If you can find 11 people to help you start the trial and leave, and you are up to the challenge, go for it. If someone does though, please don't whine that it's too hard to solo. That's already a known fact. It's intentional. It's the way it's designed to work. |
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
Although I agree with content being made solo-able, I do see an advantage of having content gated behind a minimum team method.
Those that struggle due to shyness etc can indeed benefit from teaming regularly and overtime breed extra confidence within the game.
Those that are new to the game can get a better understanding by teaming with experienced players, experienced players that usually they wouldn't get to team with as most vets have there own circle of friends and only come out of circle for brief gasps of air.
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt