Discussion: Announcing the City of Heroes Freedom VIP Head Start! September 13, 2011
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2011-09-09 24:19 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Mind you, we've been accumulating points for MONTHS now, behind the scenes. When beta opened up, i was able to get beam rifles, the hover board, a couple other little things and still had points left over.|
Originally Posted by bromley
One thing that bugs me is seeing people say that if VIPs just wait two months, then the 800 point "premium" power sets are free. But that is only true if you don't want ANYTHING else at all from the store. And I think it is safe to say that almost every costume piece or perk is going to cost points to buy. And that too will be said to be fine, because VIPs will have 400 points a month to play with, so given enough patience, everything will be free.
But it really seems like not much will be free. IMO. |
Obviously, if someone wants EVERYTHING NAO with no extra effort, then they're crap out of luck. Otherwise it's just opening the P-Store interface and clicking a couple buttons.
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Question is: Will it be before or after the official Freedom launch. In my opinion, low level characters don't do too well in mass combat like that. They don't have all that many powers, and the powers they do have aren't anywhere near their full potential due to lack of good enhancements, or enough slots to put them into in the first place. I have some personal experience with fighting in rikti and/or zombie invasion with lowbies. Even if they do scale to your level, it's *a lot* harder as a lowbie. On top of that, players that are new to the game might not have gotten hang of it properly yet.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
All the servers will be getting an invasion
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I can easily see the post-Freedom invasions degenerate into utter chaos with new player lowbies dying left and right and not contribute to much except lag. That in turn could give them a bad impression of the game too, if they die over and over before they even get somewhere.
So either hold invasions on all servers before launching officially, or hold off a bit until the new players get the hang of it (and gain some levels) so they won't get butchered, get sick of the game, quit and not look back.
I just hope they did not release this too early,I wonder if they are doing it now, counting on a LOT of players buying points, to give them a big boost for the quarter earnings statement.
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The 400 points comes with your subscribtion, so whatever you spend those 400 points on comes with your subscribtion. Before, there were things that came with the subscribtion (like Willpower and Dual Blades) and things that cost extra (like GR or the boosters). You couldn't choose what comes with the sub, you could only choose to spend money on the things that cost extra, or not. If you wanted to have everything you had to spend money in addition to the sub.|
Originally Posted by bromley
One thing that bugs me is seeing people say that if VIPs just wait two months, then the 800 point "premium" power sets are free. But that is only true if you don't want ANYTHING else at all from the store. And I think it is safe to say that almost every costume piece or perk is going to cost points to buy. And that too will be said to be fine, because VIPs will have 400 points a month to play with, so given enough patience, everything will be free.
But it really seems like not much will be free. IMO. |
Now there are just things that cost points. Some things come with the sub (like Time Manipulation and GR access), and you also get to choose 400/550 points of stuff every month that also comes with the sub. And then if you want *more* things and are willing to pay extra for them, you can do that too. If you want to have everything, you'll have to spend money in addition to the sub.
Character index
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Ugh, I'm going to have to wait for it to hit live, then work out just how many tokens I need and then ask if its possible to get them in one lump sum.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
I just wanted to point out that if you buy a subscription, you get all of your Reward Tokens up front...it's only the Paragon Points that are doled out once a month (on your "billing day", which is the same day each month even if you buy a multi-month sub).
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Yes, yes I do want Celestial that badly
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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*5 curtain calls for Richard III voice*|
Originally Posted by Kheldarn
I called it. It's going Live when I'm on vacation.
 You couldn't wait just 1 more lousy week, could you?  But that's fine. Because I have a revenge plot! EVERYONE! HELP ME GET REVENGE! LOG IN AND HAVE FUN! THAT should teach them a lesson! MWAHAHAHAhahaaaaaaa!  |
By Grabthar's hammer, by the sons of Warvan, you shall be avenged!
*gets his Mak'tar on*
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis  Yes. Just copy-paste the piggs file from beta installation to live installation. Delete the checksum and run the launcher to verify files. |
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Originally Posted by Issen
Can we get some verification that this will work from a Dev? I would want to make sure this is accurate. Because I'd rather not make any kind of adjustment, then find out I'd mucked something up.
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I understand several problems during the Beta sprang from the fact that the Beta server information on what each player had or had not purchased was not the same as the information from the live servers. This being the case, it seems to me that merely copying the piggs file from Beta will give one the same problems of mismatched/missing items.
Maybe some switch thrown or step in the above-described process will straighten things out automatically, but I would like a dev to verify this as well. Until then, I'm planning to sweat the full release-day patch download.
M. Bison: For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me...it was Tuesday.
-- Street Fighter (1994)
McClane: Hey, thanks for saving my daughter's life.
Farrell: What was I going to do?
McClane: That's what makes you "that guy."
-- Live Free or Die Hard (2007)
Totally impressed about issue 21 going to live so soon after the beta. Glad my 6 month subs went through already for my two accounts. Here's a question with i21 arriving for vip on tuesday that means level pacts cease to exist too?
My first purchase will be beam rifle but looking forward to spending points on enhancements, salvage, and recipe storage expansion.
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You will still get three new Issues per year without paying extra for them.|
Originally Posted by bromley
One thing that bugs me is seeing people say that if VIPs just wait two months, then the 800 point "premium" power sets are free. But that is only true if you don't want ANYTHING else at all from the store. And I think it is safe to say that almost every costume piece or perk is going to cost points to buy. And that too will be said to be fine, because VIPs will have 400 points a month to play with, so given enough patience, everything will be free.
But it really seems like not much will be free. IMO. |
You get 400 Points per month which will buy you the equivalent of 3 Boosters worth of extras. Did you get Boosters for free before? No. But you'll be getting the equivalent of them for free after FREEDOM.
You get one Server Transfer per month at no cost. Did you get that free before? No. That used to cost $10 per transfer.
You get a new Server to play on at no additional cost.
The catch is that the Devs are producing about 6 Boosters worth of extras per year. That's more content than ever before. However, you only get enough stipend to buy about 3 Boosters worth. You either prioritize or you pay up.
But, if you remain a VIP, you will be getting more under FREEDOM at no extra cost than every before: Solid, demonstrable FACT.
But, there are more goodies than ever to buy.
The only way to view that as "seems like not much will be free" is if you expect everything to be free, which is not a reasonable expectation from a for-profit business.
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There are 'concerns' about level pacting under FREEDOM which need a coding fix. During the VIP Head Start, level pacts can still be made. And after Head Start is over and the F2P players start play, those previously created level pacts will continue to exist. However, once F2P starts, no new level pacts can be made until they put in the coding fix. No time estimation of when that will be.
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Originally Posted by masterpiece
Totally impressed about issue 21 going to live so soon after the beta. Glad my 6 month subs went through already for my two accounts. Here's a question with i21 arriving for vip on tuesday that means level pacts cease to exist too?
My first purchase will be beam rifle but looking forward to spending points on enhancements, salvage, and recipe storage expansion. |
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I'm pretty sure the overall fear is that the free issues will contain less than previous issues, by far, due to the obvious "wait a second, we can put stuff in a cash shop now instead of having to provide a lot included with the mandatory subscription that we used to have" idea that NCSoft marketing will obviously have and the executives will like("more money, YAY!").|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
You will still get three new Issues per year without paying extra for them.
You get 400 Points per month which will buy you the equivalent of 3 Boosters worth of extras. Did you get Boosters for free before? No. But you'll be getting the equivalent of them for free after FREEDOM. |
Also I may have added a little wrong, but, the boosters are being split into smaller chunks in the new cash shop to where getting a whole booster will be a minimum of more than 400 points.
You'll barely get one booster worth for that 400 points.
They certainly would not be reducing the cost from $10 boosters down to less than $5 when people paid the $10 often and they can get away with making the total cost higher by selling each piece at a small price, that adds up to more.
And then, they will obviously be adding a LOT of stuff to the store as fast as they can.
Sure, you can save your point allowance, but good luck paying for even 10% of what you want from the store as they keep adding and adding and adding more points worth of stuff than you could ever save up enough points for.
The worries about "VIPs getting a raw deal" is the fact that almost every benefit to the subscription is absolutely temporary, aside from the $5 worth of points and one paragon reward token.
It really is paying $15 for essentially $5 worth of points because you can't keep ANYTHING else unless you continue subscribing forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever....
....with no lapse at all in your subscription.
Those who do not subscribe certainly miss out on specific subscription only things, but they end up with a far better deal, guaranteed, which only gets better with time.
That is why F2P has such appeal instead of a mandatory subscription. The price doesn't go up and up and up forever.
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It's not about "free"; it is about how much you get for what you "pay".
VIPs pay and they have to continue to pay so the end cost of what they have increases and increases and increases and increases and on and on and on....until they stop subscribing.
Premium members pay and whatever they buy is a finite price now and forever that they do not need to pay again.
Premium members obviously get the better deal, since the only thing VIPs get over them is the exclusives that require a $15(essentially $10 because of the $5 of points) monthly fee forever and ever and ever.
Premium membership and all the benefits they can get, except the VIP exclusives, is essentially $10 per month cheaper. It's $10 cheaper the first month, $20 cheaper the next, $30 cheaper the next, $40 cheaper the next, $50 cheaper the next....and they get to keep everything they can access and don't need the exclusives, often don't want them either.
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Considering that there was talk of eventually being able to pact whole teams when level pacting was in development it might be a while to get the code fix up and running. Now i've only used level pacting once myself, but if anyone has any soon to be created characters they really want to pact i'd seriously make sure to do it before the head start ends.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
There are 'concerns' about level pacting under FREEDOM which need a coding fix. During the VIP Head Start, level pacts can still be made. And after Head Start is over and the F2P players start play, those previously created level pacts will continue to exist. However, once F2P starts, no new level pacts can be made until they put in the coding fix. No time estimation of when that will be.
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Annnnd yet another place where this silliness starts. Here, you're assuming Paragon is going to bilk VIPs on content down the road. In fact, Paragon stated VIPs will continue to get exclusive treatment. I guaruntee we will have access, without paying, to all PRaetorian zones after First Ward, Premiums will have to pay. All new Incarnate Trials will be auto for us. And there are the Signature story arcs.
Before you go into (Again, as this has been brought up ALL over the forums) they have stated we will continue to get additional content (costume sets, power sets, etc.) This is a HYBRID system not Free-to-play and Zwill confirmed it in the "Freedom, Hardly" topic in the City of Heroes Life section. It was never designed for current subscribers to step down, but rather to entice the lower tiers to step up. And how do you do that, by continuing to give VIPs "stuff" that is very appealing for free while insisting Premiums pay for it with cold hard cash. In the long run it will be more cost effective to sub.
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You seem to be leaving out a few things that VIPs will have exclusively, that certainly add to the value of their subscription, like the ability to add 12 more slots to a server. Premium and Free players will never be able to have more than 36, while VIPs can get 48, not to mention an entire extra server at their disposal, should they chose to use it. That is certainly something worth the 10 bucks a month to those that have a full roster on a server right now.|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
I'm pretty sure the overall fear is that the free issues will contain less than previous issues, by far, due to the obvious "wait a second, we can put stuff in a cash shop now instead of having to provide a lot included with the mandatory subscription that we used to have" idea that NCSoft marketing will obviously have and the executives will like("more money, YAY!").
Also I may have added a little wrong, but, the boosters are being split into smaller chunks in the new cash shop to where getting a whole booster will be a minimum of more than 400 points. You'll barely get one booster worth for that 400 points. They certainly would not be reducing the cost from $10 boosters down to less than $5 when people paid the $10 often and they can get away with making the total cost higher by selling each piece at a small price, that adds up to more. And then, they will obviously be adding a LOT of stuff to the store as fast as they can. Sure, you can save your point allowance, but good luck paying for even 10% of what you want from the store as they keep adding and adding and adding more points worth of stuff than you could ever save up enough points for. The worries about "VIPs getting a raw deal" is the fact that almost every benefit to the subscription is absolutely temporary, aside from the $5 worth of points and one paragon reward token. It really is paying $15 for essentially $5 worth of points because you can't keep ANYTHING else unless you continue subscribing forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever.... ....with no lapse at all in your subscription. Those who do not subscribe certainly miss out on specific subscription only things, but they end up with a far better deal, guaranteed, which only gets better with time. That is why F2P has such appeal instead of a mandatory subscription. The price doesn't go up and up and up forever. Edit: It's not about "free"; it is about how much you get for what you "pay". VIPs pay and they have to continue to pay so the end cost of what they have increases and increases and increases and increases and on and on and on....until they stop subscribing. Premium members pay and whatever they buy is a finite price now and forever that they do not need to pay again. Premium members obviously get the better deal, since the only thing VIPs get over them is the exclusives that require a $15(essentially $10 because of the $5 of points) monthly fee forever and ever and ever. Premium membership and all the benefits they can get, except the VIP exclusives, is essentially $10 per month cheaper. It's $10 cheaper the first month, $20 cheaper the next, $30 cheaper the next, $40 cheaper the next, $50 cheaper the next....and they get to keep everything they can access and don't need the exclusives, often don't want them either. |
Premium players also do not have permanent, one-time purchase access to such things as the Invention system or the Market. They'll have to fork over money to buy monthly licenses. It might be cheaper, but it's certainly not more convenient, and part of the appeal of a subscription is the convenience of it. Convenience, or a lack thereof, has a cost.
You also have no idea what's coming down the road for the Free Issue content nor the Market. What seems like a good plan today or next month might change a year from now.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
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Beautiful this means I can level pact some more before its gone forever. Thanks for reply!
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
There are 'concerns' about level pacting under FREEDOM which need a coding fix. During the VIP Head Start, level pacts can still be made. And after Head Start is over and the F2P players start play, those previously created level pacts will continue to exist. However, once F2P starts, no new level pacts can be made until they put in the coding fix. No time estimation of when that will be.
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You are adding wrong because I'm talking 'in years' (we never had 3 Boosters come out in a month). I'm saying you get about 3 Boosters worth a year 'for free' with your Paragon Point stipend. And you're equating the cost of a Booster with only one month stipend.|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
Also I may have added a little wrong, but, the boosters are being split into smaller chunks in the new cash shop to where getting a whole booster will be a minimum of more than 400 points.
You'll barely get one booster worth for that 400 points. |
In the course of *a year*, you'll get 12 x 400 = 4,800 PP, which is more than enough to buy three Boosters worth of stuff. That's 3 Boosters for free.
VIPs get more under FREEDOM than before.
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I LOVE this game! I plan to be a subscriber until the day I die. No complaints from me. Can't wait until Tuesday. HURRY HURRY HURRY HURRY
Z, the purchaseable costume slots are account-wide??? HAPPYHAPPY,JOYJOY HAPPYHAPPY,JOYJOY
Wolfesbane, congratulations on your anniversary, and I'm so jealous. (I would love to go back to Japan some day.
Captiosus, I think you're only looking at the monitary value and not the intrinsic value. You're handling it similar to what a friend of mine does everytime we go to a fast-food place. He will look at the combos, and then price out all the items one by one to see if it really is a value - and he has told us flat-out at least once "I want to me sure I'm not getting ripped off."
I think that we'll have new people come aboard, and will eventually take a look at what VIPs get vs. Premium/Free and decide that it is well worth the value. Mind you, there will be some who will look at things and say "I don't think it's worth it," and stay at Premium, and I would not have a problem with them, but I'm sure that even a few of them will come around.
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If I am not mistaken, that is the same account wide badge that was given at the end of May during the first Praetorian invasion event. Looks like this is a "second chance" for folks who didn't have active subscriptions at the time.
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Originally Posted by Coin
Am I reading this right? The "Defender of Primal Earth" badge can only be gotten in a 2 hour window??
I bloody hope that's a global badge and not a character one! |
- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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Knowing the new costume slots are global, I could potentially see myself purchasing them - though I rarely (actively) use more than a few of the five costume slots my toons already have.
I am okay with most everything in i21 other than the enhancement boosts. I know that ultimately the boost they provide is very minimal, I just don't like the idea of something that enhances a toon's power available for purchase.
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This... I would like the answer, and I must have missed it.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
What time exactly is Exalted server going live? I would like to be sure to reserve names ASAP.
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And, for the same reason.
Cheers! And YAY!
Even if you completely ignore all one-time purchase things that VIP already gets that premium doesn't, and will in the future- and the things that premium CAN'T purchase, like Incarnate- VIP still has an edge up from the free monthly server transfer. Fifteen a month + 400 free points is the equivalent of 1600 points- the cost of a single one-time transfer, which VIPs get monthly for free. That may not be as big a deal for some as others, but on a purely cost-based level, a premium player would have to pay more to get as close as possible to VIP as they can, and can never get some of the stuff.
End result: Even WITHOUT continual new free content for VIP, it'd still be a better equivalent value.
Hmm, my billing date is the 14th, if I remember right. That's my 87th paid month. I can't quite figure out if this is really lucky for me that I21 launches just before that, or really unlucky. If I understand it right, it means that I'll get 550 more points out of it since I'll get the first tick as a Tier 8-9. Had the launch been after the 14th, I'd just have gotten the 400 VIP points I already get for September, right?
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
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Just to pick a nit, currently subscribers don't get Praetoria or anything from Going Rogue (including Incarnate stuff) unless they've bought the expansion. After Freedom launches every VIP subscriber will get all this content. Granted most current subscribers are likely to have GR, but those who don't or new players won't even be able to buy Going Rogue, but will have to buy all its parts separately (if they want it all), at a higher total cost (at current prices $40 for the powersets, $15 for the alignment system, $15 to create a Praetorian, ...). So although from the point of view of someone who already has GR this might not be worth much, for someone just starting to play the game it will be significant.|
Originally Posted by Captiosus
Currently subscribers get all of the character slots, all of Praetoria, ans incarnate items. We're not gaining thwse things, we're retaining them. But we're now being asked to pay the same amount for things as non-subscribers.
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As for the issue itself, Freedom was designed deliberately to offer long time subscribers the option of dropping to Premium without losing much, while stiff providing value and exclusive content for VIP's. The more someone has invested in the game, the less VIP will offer over Premium. This gives veteran players the choice of continuing the subscription if they feel it's worth it, or dropping to Premium if they don't, as well as alternating between them.
If you feel that the subscription isn't worth the price, you have the choice of going Premium. If you don't want to go Premium then obviously the subscription has enough value for you. I can understand the wish to get more than you already get (it's only natural), but arguing that you're not getting enough value is only affirming that the devs have done a good job providing a smooth downgrade path for the subscription.
Each person will place different values on what we are getting. I personally have never used a server transfer and it is doubtful I will any time soon. So they will stack up. And I have never used a free character slot or costume token from my Vet Rewards. So they obviously are not high value items in my opinion. But they are still nice perks to have around if I ever decide I need them. But for other people, they are highly valuable commodities and they would be happy to take them off of my hands if it was possible.
What it comes down to is you need to decide how much things are worth to you. Don't say that VIPs "continually get the shorter end of the stick when it comes to overall value", because that is making the same kind of value judgements for others that you protest when they are made about you and character slots. If you look at Lost Ninja's list of things VIPs get and decide "I don't care about that, that, or that, and I have those things from Tier rewards." then maybe you should let your subscription lapse. That is your choice, based on what you value. Personally, while I guarantee you are not getting more from vet rewards than I am, I still think the value I am receiving for the cost of VIP is worth paying.
But it really seems like not much will be free. IMO.
And they have said that not all new costume pieces, powersets, etc. will cost money. We will still be getting 2 or 3 free issues a year, the same way we always have. We will just be getting other stuff in the store too.
Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
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