Discussion: Announcing the City of Heroes Freedom VIP Head Start! September 13, 2011

Yes, it's called ignorance. The OS/platform wars were boring and insipid back in the 90s (and before) when there was reason to argue about platforms (DOS, WIn9x, the separate NT line, OS/2, budding Linux - which really wasn't a contender at that point, BeOS, etc.)
Would that be the i3/i5/i7 processors they use that aren't up to snuff? The Radeon HD graphics? (Mac Mini has either the newer Intel integrated or HD 6* series, the iMac uses HD 6750/6770/6970, for instance.) The multiple gigabytes of RAM?

I'd call it a fairly safe bet some of the macs you can go and buy *right now* would blow the PCs some people use to play this game out of the water. I know they put my secondary system - which runs COH just fine, though not on "ultra shiny" settings - to shame.

(My other system: Athlon X2 5600 2 ghz dual core, 2 Gb RAM, nVidia GeForce 9500.
Current main system: Intel i7-860 quad core, 8 Gb RAM, Radeon HD 5770. Yeah, my *main* system, other than RAM, is roughly equal/just ahead of the iMacs. The higher end Mac Mini blows my other system out of the water.)

... and as the entry of Steam, for instance, into the Mac space should show, there's more interest in getting them on the Macs. Plus, as an aside, the 800lb gorilla's maker has pretty much *always* released any game it made on the PC with a native Mac client. More are going that way, too.

There's greater interest than there has been in releasing games for the Mac.
So, they need gobs of memory, a fast processor, decent graphics and an accurate display? Sort of like... what a gaming PC would ideally have?

Think it's time for you to reexamine your assumptions. Admittedly it wasn't very long ago that Macs were using PowerPC processors, having trouble keeping up with PC-side raw speed - and having what I understand to be a vastly-more-difficult-to-port-because-of programming environment because of how that processor dealt with data. That's no longer true.


... oh, just for the record, no, I don't own a Mac. (Well, VERY technically I do - a 1990-era Mac Classic - but it's not really relevant to the discussion.) You're having a PC guy point out how wrong your arguments are.

See my Guides and Tutorials

This is exactly the kind of logic that I was initially complaining about. It assumes that whatever examples are being used, in this case boosters, are the only thing to consider. Boosters never contained entire powersets, which are now costing money to play even for VIPs. Powersets that came with expansions previously, also came with new areas, missions, costumes, systems, and game time.

What was all of GR? 30? 40 bucks? How much will just the three new powersets cost?

I'm not saying that Freedom is bad, and I am still subscribed and all. But I'm dubious that the arguments seem to be so aggressive that they come across more as shouting down the dissidents and building straw men than anything else.

Still, I'm looking forward to Tuesday.

Ok, so you get 3 boosters for free when they add about 12 in a year now.


It doesn't matter if you get the equivalent amount of content compared to the old way of doing things, you're still paying beyond the subscription when the subscription should include everything except the temporary items, as long as you continue to subscribe, or it becomes worth less and less and less until unsubscribing is the obvious best choice.



Also, I did not mention other exclusives like the extra 12 character slots per server that VIPs get because many people will not use them. I know I don't have that many characters and even delete ones I don't play for too long. I barely even have 12 slots filled on one server and the only server that I play on.

When you get right down to it, the only difference between the subscription and premium is the exclusive content access that can't be bought, the incarnate system and other little things, and the monthly point allowance.
Essentially, you're paying forever just to access the incarnate system and get $5 back in points.

I'm just going with the most obvious and simple interpretation here.
I don't really care about things that are actually available to both, either for free or with a one time purchase, because they either aren't always used to the fullest or are always tied to a "forever fee" subscription that guarantees the price continues to go up and up and up until you buy the content directly and stop subscribing.




Honestly and truly, people do not like paying recurring fees forever. This is the reason for the prevalence of prepaid phone plans and people wanting to own homes rather than rent forever.
People want to get the best deal and not pay forever.

I'm probably pretty accurate given the probability of human greed and the objective of any company being "to make as much money as possible".

Sure, it has not come to pass yet but just watch it happen someday if you don't make it known that you won't be suckered into it.

You keep to your opinion man thats cool. I disagree greatly but i am a capitalist. The main thing is this..:............... Come Tuesday freedom launches an i get wings lol

Yes, yes I do.

It is a costume slot.

It should not be the same price as an entire playable powerset for ONE costume slot. That's TWO MONTH'S worth of VIP points for ONE costume slot.

I would not protest it being even 400 points, but let's get real here. 800 points is way too much.

It's one costume slot if you have one character. I have over 100 characters....that 800 point purchase? It's over 100 costume slots for me.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

All of the servers are located in Texas. Even the "EU" ones. (There are no EU ones anymore.)

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

All servers are now located over in the US (including the EU ones, which got moved from Germany a while ago)

Uhm....
That was new to me, many thx mate, i still thought EU was/is based in Germany.
Nice to know now Looking forward to see Freedom become live!
Cheers

Then dont buy one. Thats your choice the important thing is I am gonna get wings LOL

Okay Jim-bob, because that's your name now in my mind, let's do a quick cost breakdown for you.

For ~$144 VIP's get (Using 12-month lump-sum subscription)
12 * Signature story arcs (400 points each) = $60 value
12 * Server Transfers (1600 points each) = approximately $200 (Biggest bulk purchase takes 2 doses of points to get exactly enough to buy 12 server transfers.)
12 * Invention Access (160 points every 30 days, 1920 points for 12) = ~$25
12 * Auction House access (See above, same cost) = ~ $25
12 * AE access (400 points each, 30-days) = $60
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That right there KILLS your statement that VIP's are getting shafted. Let's continue, Mr. Mathematically Challenged.
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12 * 400-550 point stipend = $60 for non-tier-9, about $75 for tier-9
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And here things get a bit murky since it all depends on what you already had. Going Rogue as an entire expansion is added to all VIP's for FREE, so a $30 value based on Steam for the Complete Collection Edition. This includes multiple powersets valued at 800 points apiece, and if you owned the expansion PRIOR to Freedom you keep access to those sets. More than $30 in points worth of powersets alone.


Now, let's add this up...hmmm, forgot to take total available character slots into account, that's a TON more points for a Premium to pay since they only get a base of 2 characters GLOBAL. So ~$40 for a 12-slot total on ONE server, then $45 for 12 on any additional servers or another page of slots on home server...let's stick with just the first $40 for a comparison with the BASE number of VIP slots per server.

Yes, the result I get is that You Suck At Math.

To get JUST the items listed above, a premium player would be paying $470 a year, though character slots would not need to be renewed, so 'only' $430 the next year. The stipend is LEFT IN as a consideration as a case of 'various extra stuff the Premium player will buy at random.' as it will be for VIP's.

This does NOT take into account powersets that are Free to VIP but cost points to Premiums, like Time Manipulation will be, and that the devs have stated there will continue to be more of.
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Summary for those with ADD/TL;DR version:
VIP cost for a year assuming 12-month-brick: $144
VIP cost for a year assuming monthly: $180
Premium cost for one year of stuff included with VIP membership that CAN be purchased on the market: $470 or $430 the following year.

Incarnate content not factored as it cannot be purchased except with VIP subscription.

YOU LOSE! Good DAY sir!

Yes, it does matter when you say wrong things like VIPs are getting it worse when that's demonstrably untrue.

VIPs are getting more than before at no extra cost. FACT

Beyond that, there's even more content that a VIP can buy. FACT

Making VIPs pay for anything extra is somehow shafting VIPs even though they're already getting more than ever. OPINION

I disagree with your opinion.

You may not disagree with facts.

Do you still have access to those arcs if you drop to Premium after the year is up? If not, then you didn't actually 'buy' them. Also, you're assuming that they're actually going to a) be able to make a 1/month schedule and b) trying to make that schedule isn't going to make the quality so bad that we're all better off being AE babies.

Yeah. This is only worthwhile if you actually use server transfers. I've been here since beta and never needed a transfer. The value of this to me is zero.
The person you're insulting has been here for 51 months. Did you happen to notice that? How many tokens is that, hmm? That's Tier 6. That means only inventions access is relevant. For those of us who have been here longer, it's all moot.

Are you getting the point yet? The 'value' of all this is highly user dependant.
*snorfle* Logic challenged is so much worse than mathematically challenged.

Again, you can't count the value of GR, because you don't actually get to keep it if you drop to Premium.

See above.

You're only correct in a very limited way. That amount only applies if your hypothetical premium player is starting from scratch and uses all the services listed. (And actually, even there you're wrong, because buying $470 worth of points is more than enough to permanently unlock AH, Inventions and AE)

So the result I get is that you are unable to think logically or make simple calculations.

But at least you've figured out how to use UBB codes so you've got that going for you.

Have a nice day and next time think about glass houses and stones first.

You get 7 Entire megabits per second?!?

/jealous

From what I've gathered it's barely working and flaky, but that's still a form of working. They're working feverishly on it, but the GUI for the store was just recently revamped from the previous horrid mess it was, so, getting Macs to interface with it is now very last minute rush and one of the first things they'll work on after launch.

They can BUT with some trouble (see CoH Player Help forum/Mac Users Sub-Forum/ Important Things To Know About I21 Release Day Thread) for details. But yeah going by the beta (at this point) yes.

yeah, I noticed there was no Pinn love there either :-/

And I will state it here as clearly as I can. I am working with absolute data here.

It is an ABSOLUTE truth that a subscriber gets more from the game than a freebie player.
It is an ABSOLUTE truth that a subscriber will pay less maintaining an account than a free player will by buying items to (poorly) emulate a subscription.
It is an ABSOLUTE truth that there are things that cannot be gotten without subscribing.

All other assertions are subjective and flawed by their very nature. Anything that has a subjective component is worthless in a comparison of absolute values.

There are a number of factors that go into any calculation, I therefore eliminated any variables aside from raw money being spent by the subscriber and the corresponding value for the extra services that may or may not be used in Paragon Points that would have to be purchased by a premium account.

Chew on this as a point of data that I did not bother bringing up in the post you mocked so inadequately: Someone that has never played before and subscribes for a year after only a week of having fun starts out about $300 ahead of someone that doesn't subscribe and uses the market for licenses instead. That person will also get access to $60 worth of items in the market, close to half of their subscription cost for the year if they buy the 12-month brick, or exactly a third if they go month-by-month.

Subscribers start ahead, and they stay ahead until we get to the point of unreasonable amounts of money being spent by a 'free' player just for the convenience of never having to worry about a billing error causing a lapsed subscription and loss of access to certain aspects that subscribers get.

Red font make your points (if you have them) way too hard to read.

Here's something you still haven't addressed. You admit that valuing the services is subjective. Therefore a mathematical comparison of theoretical dollar values is meaningless. It follows that your ad hominem attacks are, in fact, baseless, illogical and petty.

Subscribers may start out ahead. However a subscriber that stops subscribing ends up substantially behind someone that never subscribed but has been spending the same amount of money a la carte, an 'absolute' fact that you blithely ignore.

No.

You are ignoring all those months that the subscriber had playing the game. That has value. The value of $15/month. Calculate that into the equation. You can't pretend that history does not exist and pretend both are starting from scratch. Only one is starting from scratch.

It should be obvious, but your store/account information is not stored in the pigg files on your computer.

Interesting, when did they move Pinn from VA? Granted, this is assuming that the 7 year old conversation of server locations was accurate back then...