Brillig

Legend
  • Posts

    873
  • Joined

  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by TonyV View Post
    Saying something like, "City of Heroes was profitable" does absolutely no good. Ample evidence from ... NCsoft's on Investor Relations reports does not discourage the troll from arguing otherwise.
    Show the proof from the reports.

    I'm sure you won't and will justify it as "not feeding the trolls."
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter View Post
    Only bad to you, because it's accurate.
    At least Starsman is attempting to present an argument.

    You've pretty much descended to GG's level of irrelevance.
  3. Quote:
    Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast View Post
    I don't know Mercedes Lackey and so HER word means just as much as the word of any other poster on here to me; regardless if she has sold 100,000 books.
    Actually, I believe her books have sold (all told) in the tens of millions. But you're right that it's irrelevant. Her actions have pretty clearly demonstrated that she isn't credible.
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Starsman View Post

    Paragon Studios was profitable.
    Not a fact.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
    Compared to the last reported quarter, the game grew a small percentage year over year.
    Cherry-picking. Yes, revenues were up 3% YoY in Q2. However, revenues were down 15% for the trailing 4 quarters, YoY.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
    There are plenty of examples of games with less playerbase that have run for longer lifespans.
    This is an utterly meaningless "fact." You could use a browser game with 300 users to "prove" it.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
    Anything else you can come up with would be YOUR guesswork in an attempt to dismiss reality.
    Only if "reality" = "stuff saveCoH really hopes is true."


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
    This game did not have to die.
    The game didn't have to live either.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
    Worst case scenario, IF there was a reason to worry about the studio or game profit margins, a first attempt should have been done to shrink the dev team and perhap merge studios. That is: IF you gave a ***** about your players and the game.
    Shrinking the dev team, merging studios, shutting down servers - these are all things that are well documented to cause player flight. Which then causes another round of said contractions.

    I know it's impossible for youi to understand, but it's just possible that NCSoft knows more about running MMOs than you do.
  5. Quote:
    Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter View Post
    Nice troll attempt though.
    There you go again.

    /reagan
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
    In the same way that a poweful Sith was foretold to bring balance to the force.
    In the same way that bad analogies are powering the Intarwebz.
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
    Or because they wanted to do something "close to home", another super-hero related game, and NCSoft had as much interest in that as they proven to have in this one.
    If you want to develop a project and you insist on developing something that upper management is proven not to be interested in, I consider that your failure, not management's.

    It's that it's more Paragon's responsibility to make something that NCSoft wants to invest in, and less that it's NCSoft's responsibility to invest in what Paragon wants to make.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
    Although it was supported for a long time, it was ignored by most players. I'm not sure if 2007 was simply the year that the latest content update happened to break the client.

    Anyways, the fact that the game is "not a modern MMO", still not an excuse to say "cant use it as an example".

    But there are others in the list:

    Meridian 59 is still running, that's 17 years! (dont go to their website, they exceeded their bandwith )
    Horizons changed name to Istaria [/URL]and is still running, that's 9 years.
    Final Fantasy XI[/URL] is still running, that is also 9 years.
    Second Life Online, 9 years
    Eve Online, 9 years

    The list can go on and on if you bother to double check mmorpg.com's MMO list to see what is actually still online.
    "Don't go to their website, they exceeded their bandwidth"? And you consider that a going concern?

    Horizons died a couple of times, and last time I heard was bought out by an LLC formed by one of the lead developers. Running mainly as a volunteer/part-time craft project.

    Second Life - really?

    EVE online - was growing pretty steadily for the last couple of years.

    Seriously. These examples suck.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter View Post
    So it's wrong to speculate on any wrongdoing by NCsoft, but it's OK to do it to PS?

    Hypocrite.

    And say what you want about the other projects, which seem to have been shuttered with no explanation. That a company as big as NCsoft couldn't even give PS a pittance for a marketing budget is insulting. Why should I assume that PS got any more respect when it came to the other projects?
    No, there are plenty of people here already that assume that any wrongdoing is on the part of NCSoft. With, I might add, a complete lack of evidence.

    Presenting a contrarian point of view is just balance.

    P.S. PS had a marketing budget.
  10. Threads like these pretty clearly illustrate why lottery winners so often end up in financial trouble down the road...
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon View Post
    FTFY. Whether they did so because they weren't sold on Darker & Edgier CoH and the Sekrit Project, or were more invested in B&S and GW2, or were already divesting themselves of western projects, or all of the above, that's up for debate.
    No, you didn't. (Fix anything for me.)

    There is no basis to draw any conclusion as to why Paragon got so many projects killed. It's as likely that it was because they were complete carp as anything else.
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Positivity View Post
    Ultima Online
    Dark Age of Camelot
    Everquest
    Asheron's Call
    Anarchy Online
    Everquest II

    All of these games are older than CoX(EQII is the same age).
    All of these games appear to have less players than CoX.
    All of these games are owned by companies that are not NCsoft...
    Throwing Ultima Online out of the set for the moment, as I don't consider it a 'modern' MMO because it's 2D iso.

    Another thing that all those games have in common is that their developers continued to put out new products.

    DAoC -> Warhammer Online
    EQ -> EQ2
    AC -> DDO -> LOTRO
    AO -> AOC -> TSW
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
    Game development in action at this web site.

    Chris Roberts (who is a big deal in the industry - the creator of Wing Commander) is crowdfunding a game to be completely independent of funding/control from corporate lackwits. The funding target was $2 million. They are currently almost to $7 million.
    That's not strictly true. The crowdfunding was 'proof of concept' that CR needed to get more money from private backers. While he's not working with a publisher, he *is* working with private-equity type folks that are going to be fronting a large part of the money. You're not going to pay for 2+ years of a substantial dev team on only $7m.

    (Oh, and I'm over 1k into Star Citizen. Le sigh.)
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by gec72 View Post
    Huh. From a Disney/Marvel standpoint, I wonder if the IP might be more worth a look than the game. Maybe they wouldn't do anything with the characters, but hey, the option would at least be there. You wouldn't have any creators to deal with either.
    Honestly, the IP doesn't have that much value. Even though we know the lore well, it really doesn't have any reach outside the hardcore CoH community - a community in the tens of thousands. Compare that with the Marvel IP where hundreds of millions have some exposure to it, and you begin to see the difference in value.

    Could the CoH IP be built up to that extent? Possibly. Would it be worth it to do so in competition with their own IPs? Probably not.
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by JKedan View Post
    At what point will the 31 page proposal be available for us to read?
    Probably never. Why can't you just take their word for it that it was the best pitch ever and if Disney fails to buy it it's just more experience of the NCSoft conspiracy?

    (But seriously - everything so far has been the height of amateur hour. Why would this be different?)
  16. "Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math." ~Ambrose Bierce


    Sounds perfect for #SaveCoH. :P
  17. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arachnion View Post
    Golden Girl has SIXTY SEVEN THOUSAND POSTS, dude.

    I think she's entitled to a little arrogance.
    You neglect to note that almost all of them are certified content-free, guaranteed not to cause any unwanted thoughts or insight, not to be used while higher mental functions are engaged, may cause temporary or permanent brain damage.
  18. Quote:
    Originally Posted by DarkBlaster_NA View Post
    Shutting the game down wasn't the crime, It's the sheer spite.
    I haven't seen any spite from NCSoft. It's all coming from the other place.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vyver View Post
    And it would be a sin to not mention the most notorious popular show to ever get canceled

    Firefly

    Hopefully with Whedon's popularity directing the Avengers movies we can get it back.
    Uh, it wasn't that popular - that's why it was cancelled.
  20. If it were that great, that successful and that profitable, it wouldn't have been shut down.
  21. Some thoughts on some crazy ideas I'd like to see MM (or any MMO designer) take on:


    1. Self balancing abilities. Rather than have the designers dictate balance, let the players tell you what's working and what isn't. In other words - the more an ability gets used, the less powerful it gets. And the less an ability gets used, the more powerful it gets. There should be caps on either end to prevent things from getting too out of whack, but if something hits the cap, that's a good indication that the designers need to take a better look at it.

    You can do the same thing with mobs too. If everyone is beating on snarks instead of boojums, the snarks gradually become harder, worth less xp, have less loot. Etc...

    While this could be vulnerable to metagaming, I think that over the scale of a large MMO, it wouldn't be possible to make a coordinated effort to muck with things.


    2. Getting away from the 'trinity'. People say this a lot, but it's harder than it sounds. The problem is that MMO combat revolves around reducing mob numeric counter A before player numeric counter B. So there are basic roles based around: reducing A faster, keeping B from being reduced, raising B, etc... I think that fundamentally, getting away from the trinity will require a whole new concept of what 'winning' looks like in an MMO. What about an MMO where using the environment to defeat mobs (knocking them off ledges, into pits, into water, dropping walls on them, etc...) was as valid a means of defeating them as combat. Some of that exists in current MMOs, but it's really a sideshow, a trick that you use occasionally, but not a core mechanic.


    3. PvP that's a game, not a war or a sport. One of the problems with PvP is that people have different expectations of what PvP is. The most common implementation is PvP as war. There's no expectations of fairness other than what the designer considers 'balanced'. You get higher level, you get stronger; you get better gear, you get stronger - and most of the time you can get both of those through PvP. This creates what, to me, is a silly situation where after a while there's a barrier to entry. New PvPers are told they have to pay their dues and suffer through getting whomped in order to catch up. Who wants to suffer in a game.

    PvP as sport has seen some implementations as well, where the playing ground is level, and the main (only?) determinant is player skill. This is less common in MMOs, and more common in stand alone games, FPS' etc...

    PvP as game pretty much only happens outside of computer games. In many games, there's a formal or informal handicapping system so that the less skilled player still has a decent chance of winning. In Go you get extra stones. In chess, your opponent may take a piece or two off the board. In Monopoly, you might start with extra cash. The point is to create an environment where two players can each have a challenge even in the face of disparate ability levels. To my knowledge, no one has ever done this in an MMO. I'm sure PvP players would consider it suicidal for a game designer to try it. I think someone should give it a go, though.
  22. If I had to pick just one thing, I'd pick PvP. Adding PvP after the fact is a really tough needle to thread, and when you try to do it in a game that allows players to be gloriously imbalanced.... it's going to be a disaster.

    And as others have pointed out, this decision bled over in to a lot of other bad designs and issues.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rabid_M View Post
    They can't sell "the game", because they don't own the game engine. They can sell the IP, and I'm pretty sure any art from the game, but not the entire game.

    Given that, I'm not sure if anyone other than Perfect World would really get much use out of customer files for a game they have to rebuild.
    No, they license the engine. You'd have to ask someone who knows the contract details whether the license is transferable, but it'd hardly be unusual for it to be. Certainly people who *ought* to know are behaving like it is.