Samuel Tow hates Tin Mage and all he stands for

Some people just need to lrn2rd, as there's enough references in the Praetorian lore that implies that Praetoria isn't the Last City on Earth.

I ran Tin Mage on my very IO'd dom with a good group of people last night. While the Director 11 fight did cause us to wipe a couple of times (had no idea what the cause of all those ambushes was) everything after that was gravy. Oh and that was with 7 people. We lost one on the first mission before we even finished the AV.

The Tin Mage TF is awesome - once you get to know it

I was laughing and wondering about how you got so many deaths. Then i realised i think i was part of that tinmage. O.O

Faceplanting more means you are more powerful.


At least the devs who designed these TFs seem to think so.



.

I for one am very glad we have content at the high levels that causes multiple team wipes.

Why?

1. There is now something to strive to defeat, that cannot be walked over the first time you try it. Getting spanked and then getting revenge is fun, IMO.

2. This content forces some level of teamwork. That's right, TEAMwork. I mostly solo because I generally hate PUGs, but I love content that forces a team to work together to beat.

3. IMO, City NEEDS content that is NOT like the other content. While I love the way the game plays, I also love having new challenges, even if those challenges are 'stat-based'. While I am also very aware of the preference some players have of never seeing their characters faceplant, to the point of quitting if they do it too often (a couple of my ex-friends were like this, they all but cried every time, seriously) we need more hard challenges in City.

Personally, I cannot stand to see people cry out to change things in this game rather than finding ways to overcome the challenge.

While I am also aware that there are people that cannot team for a variety of reasons, that fact does not preclude there being team oriented content that they might never see. Just because you subscribe, it does not entitle you to automatically be able to interact with all the content and get all the rewards if you are not wiling to put in the time and energy required (by the developers).

It is, after all, City of Heroes, NOT City of SUPER Heroes. Heroes persevere through adversity. No matter what the cost, sometimes. Even Superman meets more than his match sometimes.

As for the Who argument, the Malta, even Batman beat Superman with the right equipment.

So, MajorPrankster, Loves Tin Mage and all he stands for, even if that means MajorPrankster faceplants.

I have the Alpha slot unlocked on both my Ice/Ice Tanker and on my Plant/Fire Dom. I have a boost slotted on the Dom but need an ITF to finish the Tanker's. That being said, I am in no hurry whatsoever. The more feedback I read on these TF's the more they sound like the raiding scene in WoW, right down to the "not standing in fire" part courtesy of Battle Maiden.

Like Samuel and Johnny, I absolutely can't stand content that cheats. Why did I spend all that influence on my Tanker's build, turning him into a veritable juggernaut, if it is going to be negated by arbitrary mechanics? Might as well be using SO's still at that point. Make me work for aggro, fine. Force me to have good situational awareness, by all means. But making opponents that can kill me outright in a couple hits? That's not challenge, that's just stacking the deck.

I'm sure I'll get dragged into an Incarnate TF at some point, and am reserving my final judgment on this content for when I actually experience it. But take it from someone that has "been there, done that" when it comes to endgame content in other MMO's: if this is WoW, Super Hero Style, that will be the one and only time I do any of it.

Ah well, time to go to work. I can start my day now that I've had my morning rant.

Lets compare Battle Maiden with our characters.


When Battle Maiden arrives from Praetoria, she streaks down from low Earth orbit, smashing into Steel Canyon like a meteor causing massive destruction.

She proceeds to dispatch all of the heroes and defense forces in the area, after all, Steel Canyon is only a level 20 zone at max. She does this solo for the most part (I consider her Warriors being part of her Lore Incarnate slot, pets if you will).

It takes eight proto-Incarnates to bring her down, yet her attacks can and will devastate any of them.



When we arrive in Praetoria, we crawl out of the sewer. We cause zero damage; Neuron's plaza remains pristine on the mission map as if we have no impact or signigance at all.

We proceed to struggle against nameless nobody enemies who are automagically level 54, in Neutropolis, a level 20 max zone.

With the help of seven allies, we only face two heroes, and their powers are superior to ours in every way. Compared to how we fared against BM's attacks, they laugh off ours. It takes one lazy catgirl to bring down any of us and the only reason we win is by it being 8 on 1 (or 4 on 1 depending) like cowards.


Who comes across as more epic and powerful in these two examples? NOT US in my opinion. I don't feel more powerful. I don't feel like I'm "on the way to being seen as a peer to the NPCs." I feel like I've been reduced in power, because before I could at least stand up to any of them. Now I have to run away like an ant being chased by a magnifying glass, kite like a coward and fight legions of demonic spiders because of a sadistic GM.



.

Content that cheats? Lol. It's not as hard as some are making it out to be, try being less bad.

So, I was reserving judgement on the new Task Forces--which seems to be what we've branched off into discussing--until I tried one last night. It wasn't Tin Mage Mk II, though. My team and I attempted a run at Apex last night. You'll note the use of the word "attempted." We didn't succeed for a few different reasons (it was late and a lot of the team had to go to bed), but I know it wasn't because of the caliber of my teammates: I've teamed with all of them before, and I know they're intelligent players capable of pretty shrewd action when the situation merits.

On reflection, the largest reason we didn't quite make it would be team composition. We brought what Incarnates we had slotted, and that meant we didn't have a lot of flexibility in what Archetypes were available. In fact, we wound up with about the worst possible team for this particular challenge: we were heavy in melee damage, without much support. I can see Battle Maiden falling fairly easily to a Tanker or Brute and a mixture of ranged damage and support, using a strategy not unlike what might be employed to beat Ghost Widow on the Statesman Task Force (i.e., dragging Battle Maiden around the map by her ego while the rest of the team takes pot shots), but that was an option we flatly didn't have with the players on hand.

Now, as the people in my circle of friends level up more and more characters, we'll get the dynamic teams that we need to take diverse challenges like this. However, I'm led to wonder about how well one of the game's oldest design paradigms fares in the face of new content. You see, historically, what any of us, the players, brought to any particular challenge was determined primarily by what we wanted to bring. Statesman and Recluse both have challenges that entail a little more thought than that with most players, but there have been, say, all-Stalker LRSFs.

This worries me a little more than, say, "arbitrarily" god-moded NPCs or gimmicky fights. Enemy NPCs will always do what plot and game mechanics dictate they should, after all, and we shouldn't kid ourselves by thinking that they're a steady barometer of anything other than what the developers intend the next challenge to be. As much as I, personally, don't care much for gimmicky fights, I understand that they appeal to a large portion of the playerbase, so I can stow my gripes and tell myself it's fun until it is.

No, what worries me is that we may be inching down a slippery slope. I hope I never see the day when someone tells my Rad Corruptor something like "You didn't six-slot EMP? We're doooooomed! <kick>." It also makes me worry that I may feel compelled to level, say, my Defenders and Corruptors just for specific Task Forces. It's one thing to want to play these characters because they're fun--and they can be--but it's another to feel like the devs are sitting behind your chair, wringing their hands and twirling their mustaches while they mutter things like "Yessss... Now, level a /Resonance Controller next, or your friends will never finish the Operative Jenkins Strike Force."*

I'd be interested in hearing what others think about this: is having tighter team "requirements" bad?

*Hyperbole added for comedic effect.