Samuel Tow hates Tin Mage and all he stands for
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-12-11 22:27 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Indeed, I agree. In fact, I haven't recently read any "I soloed the entire ITF on +3 today," threads... I wonder what's wrong?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The raging and whining and weeping will die down, just like it did for the "Impossible" ITF
 Then it can start up all over again for the BAF raid |
The Devs will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS lag behind the players in "I can beat you" ability, for the simple fact that there are X*10,000 people playing this game, and there are <50 Devs (on the extremely high side).
So just wait a few weeks, until the Experts know how to pwn the TFs, (and wait until we have all 10 slots - perhaps these TFs will then look like a kindergarten ring-around-the-rosy, and it won't seem so silly that they were tough to the neo-Incarnated...)
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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Reminds me of my favorite definition of courage:|
Originally Posted by docbuzzard
Some people have a different notion of powerful. It's tied to being able to actually accomplish something hard.
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I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. It's when you know you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what. You rarely win, but sometimes you do. ~Atticus Finch, To Kill a Mockingbird (by Harper Lee)
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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As long as i've been playing CoH unselecting a target normally un-queues whatever power was queued up when you switched targets. This include defensive powers like self heals.|
Originally Posted by Impish Kat
I've been using esc. to "un-queue" powers... that is, if they have the dotted red line around them, it disappears. It may be a side effect from deselecting the mob, or it may be that it just happens to work when I don't have a mob selected... dunno. Hadn't really gotten that extensive with it. Just found it by happy accident, and have been using it to "un-queue" a power that I didn't really want to fire off (y'know when my fingers get too twitchy).
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However, i have recently noticed that queued attacks have frequently been firing at enemies as soon as i come into range even if i've switched to a different target as long as i haven't queued up another power. This is despite the attack no longer having the queue indicator and a different target is selected.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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We cannot all be as perfect as you, can we?|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I don't like that resources were wasted developing those and the new TFs when it's obvious the majority of players prefer stuff like the ITF and the LGTF.
That is an incredibly idiotic notion.. |
Oh Johnny, have you not yet figured out that no one at Paragon Studios really cares what you think resources should be spent on by now, especially the way you have addressed them, like calling them stupid?
Which, in this example, is all your nerd rage seems to capable of doing...yelling insults.
I am thankful every time I read one your posts like this that you have 0 to do with what gets added to this game.
Your complaint seems to revolve around the fact that foes you think you should be able to beat, you can't. How sad for you.
Me, I could care less if the foes are called Battle Maiden or Object 12345, as long as I have fun playing the game. Which I do, along with, it seems, a few thousand others.
Enjoy your nerd rage, I'l be enjoying the new TFs.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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I would say, "Is it fun?" is at least as important a question. And for me, at least, it's too difficult to really be fun. Banging my head against something for over half an hour is only pleasant when I stop.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Is it too difficult? All I can say is: we won.
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| we didn't have any strategy formulated other than "fight" and "don't die" |
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| we brought whatever characters we wanted to |
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| we didn't bring nukes or shivans or tier 3 insps or temp powers or base boosts |
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| And this is the hardest they will ever be - they're only going to get easier. |
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| I predict routine twenty minute Apex and Tin Mage runs in under a month. You can quote me on that. I also predict that some people will never be able to beat them, no matter how many uber Incarnate buffs they cram into their characters, and you can quote me on that too. |
You know, it's funny - even though Jack left the game years ago, the new content is the very essence of "Statesman Fun".
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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I enjoy the 2 new tf's, but you make a good point here. As our characters gain incarnate abilities they should feel more powerful, not less. Instead, it seems the devs goal is to give us new levels of power, but up the powers of our enemies even more, in which case, the net result is our characters feel, and are, weaker. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
One primary reason I was so pissed off is because this does indeed appear to be what the future is about: a future where we gain ever more power and become ever weaker against our enemies. I could fight my own fights alone and come out victorious before I became an Incarnate, but once I became one, then all the new Incarnate content put me as a completely helpless chump who needs seven other people to do anything and even then die about a thousand time in the process, three of which being getting hit by Bobcat for 7300+, 4800+ and 3500+, all on a hit points bar of around ~1800. Of all the ways to make me feel that something is epic, grand and exciting, having an enemy hit me for many times my total hit points three times in a row ain't one of 'em. Especially not when I slapped Bobcat around in a mission the day before.
"Epic" may be a lot of things, but Epic ain't this. Epic ain't an indistinguishable soup of colours like I'm having kaleidoscope dreams. Epic ain't a cacophony of colours like I were listening to music remixed by Neuron humself. Epic ain't a two ficking hour slog though resistant high-level enemies that take ages to kill where I spent half the time one hand on the keyboard and my head resting on my other hand. This is not Epic. This is BORING. It makes me feel like one of the grunts in that Stalingrad level in Call of Duty. It makes me feel like one more Marine in a StarCraft unit. It makes me feel like an insignificant gnat and the fights aren't even any fun because I don't know what the hell is going on. |
I have toons that before incarnates came out could solo bobcat. Now these same toons, with incarnate abilities, are now effectively one shot by the same character. That makes me feel weaker, and quite frankly, frustrated. More work, effort and development and my character ends up weaker against the same foes I have always fought? I've been seeing the same thing in tip missions, where some enemy groups appear to have been buffed, the same enemy groups I handle easily in the regular content wipe the floor with my characters in the new content.
IMO, that's a bad strategy/direction by the devs. If you want more of a challenge for players even with increased player strength via incarnates and io's, that's fine. But don't do it by buffing us, then just buffing our old oppenents even more. Offer higher difficulty settings. Make us feel like the av's. Make the old baddies have to gang up on us, rather than our superheroes having to get seven buddies to beat down one villain. And if you want one uber villain threat that requires the avengers, fine, but make it an uber villain, not one of the old villains that you just buffed up (unless theres a great story for why said villain is suddenly vastly more powerful).
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No, what gives me lease to respond the way I did was the incredibly stupid response I got from a certain poster.|
Originally Posted by docbuzzard
It also doesn't give you lease to resort to ad hominems.
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Originally Posted by docbuzzard
You've been whining about this TF since Beta and the arguments were no more convincing then. You want the game to be a walk through. There's plenty of content to that effect. Just because something is actually hard doesn't make it bad.
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Originally Posted by docbuzzard
These TFs are fun, and very doable if people care to figure out how to do them.
If your idea of feeling more powerful is being able to walk all over the opposition, go wipe swarms of grays in Perez. |
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Originally Posted by docbuzzard
Some people have a different notion of powerful. It's tied to being able to actually accomplish something hard.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Whenever a new TF or SF comes out, people complain that it's too hard for awhile. It's a tradition.
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What's even funnier is the number of people jumping at the chance to defend this particular brand of fun, despite it having been reviled and joked about on these boards for years.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
You know, it's funny - even though Jack left the game years ago, the new content is the very essence of "Statesman Fun".
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In the end it boils down to this for me: I have experienced endgame raiding in other MMO's and do not like it. It bores me to absolute tears. I find endless team wipes and strategy tweaks to be tedious at best. If that is truly the experience the Devs want us to have in the Incarnate content then I shall simply pass on doing it. But for the love of Heaven, don't forget that non-endgame players still exist. As long as future Issues still have things for me to do that aren't Incarnate content, I'll be fine.
I have yet to do an Incarnate TF. I'll probably squeeze one in this week now that my Plant/Fire Dom has his Alpha slot. However from reading these boards and having raided endgame elsewhere, I have a fair idea what to expect. If that expectation is proven correct, I will never touch the Incarnate content again.
I have stuck with CoH all these years specifically because it IS different from everyone else. Giving it endgame content that is along the same style as other games? Yuck.
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On the Apex finale we do run, a lot. We're so pathetic compared to Battle Miaden that we have to run and kite like cowards and gang up on her with seven others.|
Originally Posted by SuperFerret
I dunno, that situation sounds pretty damn epic to me. A small group of heroes, outmatched and outgunned by forces from outside their world, standing up and saying "No, I will not run
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| I'd rather die on my feet |
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Doing a successful Apex TF that took an hour and 15 minutes when me and 4 others had never done it before did not remind me at all of the end game content on that other game that cannot be named within the rules. Of course your milage may vary.
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Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
What's even funnier is the number of people jumping at the chance to defend this particular brand of fun, despite it having been reviled and joked about on these boards for years.
In the end it boils down to this for me: I have experienced endgame raiding in other MMO's and do not like it. It bores me to absolute tears. I find endless team wipes and strategy tweaks to be tedious at best. If that is truly the experience the Devs want us to have in the Incarnate content then I shall simply pass on doing it. But for the love of Heaven, don't forget that non-endgame players still exist. As long as future Issues still have things for me to do that aren't Incarnate content, I'll be fine. I have yet to do an Incarnate TF. I'll probably squeeze one in this week now that my Plant/Fire Dom has his Alpha slot. However from reading these boards and having raided endgame elsewhere, I have a fair idea what to expect. If that expectation is proven correct, I will never touch the Incarnate content again. I have stuck with CoH all these years specifically because it IS different from everyone else. Giving it endgame content that is along the same style as other games? Yuck. |
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Large numbers of people aren't immune to mass stupidity.|
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
What's even funnier is the number of people jumping at the chance to defend this particular brand of fun, despite it having been reviled and joked about on these boards for years.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Mu...water_incident
If thousands of deluded people will gulp down sewage, I'm not surprised there's people on these forums who lap up these foul TFs.
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I think it's the orbital bombardment that's the reason to take evasive action, not Battle Maiden herself |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
On the Apex finale we do run, a lot. We're so pathetic compared to Battle Miaden that we have to run and kite like cowards and gang up on her with seven others.
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This obession with not "running" and being "manly" is like a parody of a Tank
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
So when something was previously trivial to beat is now a challenge, that's cheating?
When you're not used to dying much, and you undertake something that kills you and your team often, that's cheating?
Y'all need to rethink a few things. If you want the game to stay stagnant, go play something else. The rest of us are glad they're going in a different direction. Every new TF since the original Phalanx stuff has been hard at first, and then got easier as people did it and found strategies. Why are these two new TFs going to be any different?
I'm sorry, but why should I listen to someone that has a nerd-rage on the average TF as it is tell me that a new TF is poorly designed? Shouldn't that be dismissed as much as a non-PvPer telling the PvP community how "they're doing it wrong?"
Play through Apex or Tin Mage several times, on different characters and with different teams, and then come here and tell us what's what. You don't know anything useful from one run except that it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. How they go about making it hard doesn't matter. It's harder.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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There's a lot more "foulness" on the way |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
If thousands of deluded people will gulp down sewage, I'm not surprised there's people on these forums who lap up these foul TFs.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That has to do with the new TFs not being Jack-like fun - Jack-fun is a Shadow Shard TF |
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
What's even funnier is the number of people jumping at the chance to defend this particular brand of fun, despite it having been reviled and joked about on these boards for years.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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So, I guess that means there's no chance that people might just have different tastes that you do? You're right and everyone else is wrong and that's that? I guess that would make the world easier to deal with. None of those painful grey areas.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Large numbers of people aren't immune to mass stupidity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Mu...water_incident If thousands of deluded people will gulp down sewage, I'm not surprised there's people on these forums who lap up these foul TFs. . |
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This^ xOVER9000!!!!|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
So when something was previously trivial to beat is now a challenge, that's cheating?
When you're not used to dying much, and you undertake something that kills you and your team often, that's cheating? Y'all need to rethink a few things. If you want the game to stay stagnant, go play something else. The rest of us are glad they're going in a different direction. Every new TF since the original Phalanx stuff has been hard at first, and then got easier as people did it and found strategies. Why are these two new TFs going to be any different? I'm sorry, but why should I listen to someone that has a nerd-rage on the average TF as it is tell me that a new TF is poorly designed? Shouldn't that be dismissed as much as a non-PvPer telling the PvP community how "they're doing it wrong?" Play through Apex or Tin Mage several times, on different characters and with different teams, and then come here and tell us what's what. You don't know anything useful from one run except that it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. How they go about making it hard doesn't matter. It's harder. |
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That has to do with the new TFs not being Jack-like fun - Jack-fun is a Shadow Shard TF
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think it's the orbital bombardment that's the reason to take evasive action, not Battle Maiden herself
This obession with not "running" and being "manly" is like a parody of a Tank |
You know how we as Incarnates should deal with being shot at from orbit?
This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQh26wKS6f8
Heaven forbid we're allowed to be proactive against these attacks and stop them. Nope, we have to react and run around like idiots dodging them.
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Actually, I think the idiot thing to do would be to not dodge them |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Heaven forbid we're allowed to be proactive against these attacks and stop them. Nope, we have to react and run around like idiots dodging them.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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that, I wouldn't mind
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
You know how we as Incarnates should deal with being shot at from orbit?
This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQh26wKS6f8 |
Just some thoughts from me:
1.) I agree to some extent that the Tin Mage (and Apex) TF(s) are 'boring' to a degree. I've mentioned it before but even while on the Apex TF (and TMTF) when there were War Walkers after War Walkers...they were just a big bag of HP...after 1 or 3 (maybe 4 total) it gets really annoying/boring. The final fight with Battle Maiden was fine/neat.
Again the final battle with Neuron/Bobcat was actually easy...nothing special. I don't remember the team make-up but we had like 3 tankers and 1 brute...the rest were a mix of def/corr or blasters (don't remember). 1 tanker always taunted the 2 War Walkers away from us while we fought Neuron/Bobcat. I never noticed Bobcat go 'crazy' when Neuron died but...*shrugs* she died fast enough.
I did not like the Director AV though that's for sure....or I should say I don't like how he keeps running around (can you immob him? our team couldn't...at least not for long).
2.) I agree that there should be 'solo' incarnate like Samuel has said. I don't mind and would like to see more 'team' content but...options are always good.
I do agree/hope that the content that's coming out doesn't do the whole -4 debuff just to offset the level shifts from the Incarnate abilities.
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Maybe every War Walker could be accompanied by an orbital bombardment like Battle Maiden has?
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
when there were War Walkers after War Walkers...they were just a big bag of HP...after 1 or 3 (maybe 4 total) it gets really annoying/boring.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
These TFs are fun, and very doable if people care to figure out how to do them.
If your idea of feeling more powerful is being able to walk all over the opposition, go wipe swarms of grays in Perez.
Some people have a different notion of powerful. It's tied to being able to actually accomplish something hard.
Although i do also agree that the Malta rank and file could be slightly less powerful from an aesthetic standpoint, just to emphasize how tough the Praetorians are compared to the foes we're used to fighting. Maybe have the Malta spawn at +3, but with lots of Zeus Titans. Director 11's minespamming schtick is more annoying than challenging, or even really dangerous.
Overall i rather like that the two new "end game" TFs are somewhat challenging. i've done Apex and Tin Mage with the basic boost and neither takes more than an hour.
Dr. Todt's theme.
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