Tweets of the PAX Panel
By
abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2010-09-04 10:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
*thumbsup to the next issue*
That is all.
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Increases in fly speed, 2x?|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
As I said before, we have never gotten something just because. There has always been some form of a price to pay. Whether its real money for ninja run as a booster, or travel powers at level 6 due to paying in so much vet time. I cant see them doing this without some penalty.
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Decreases in archery animation times, twice?
My History-Fu is weak, wait until some of the real knowledgeable people get on to squash this conspiracy theory.
SOOO tired of people seeing the NONEXISTENT dark cloud for the prominent silver lining.
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That's funny, people keep saying that, but my card runs the game maxed out at 1920X1200 with everything on ultra except Ambient Occlusion, which is 2 notches down from Ultra (which no one should ever run anyway) and in Grandville I get between 30 and 45ish FPS at all times.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I disagree here. CO was epic phail out of the box so it was never competition for anyone. Now DCUO on the other hand will give CoX a run for its money. Unless there is a complete engine overhaul, like say moving off this open gl crap to direct x, something that will make good use of the graphics cards alot better than laggy *** ultra mode with not so much hella lag like grandville, we might have something.
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Then again, I am running a GTX 470...
Mostly just pointing out, it's not the game's fault if your card can't handle it.
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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Ah, see, that's a difference of perception |
Originally Posted by azile
My initial post in this thread was to Castle, asking for the reasoning behind this change (instead of what I saw as another option, or doing nothing). With fitness becoming inherent, there's no change to offset the global buff every toon is getting (either immediately, or on a respec). We're getting power creep, and I am wondering why.
As I pointed out earlier, current power numbers would have to be re-examined if the base rates were changed, and that is a lot of work. And you're right, it would be a nerf to high end builds unless set bonuses were looked at as well. It's probably not a viable alternative at all, really. The assumption in the majority of this thread seems to be that low level endurance recovery is really the issue being addressed here. But then there's an even simpler solution: just give Beginner's Luck an scaling endurance recovery buff, similar to it's accuracy buff. |
. That is part of it, but I think the primary issue is the omni-presence of that power selection. Which is why it doesn't really impact the endurance economy for the mid-range to the high-range. It will impact it on the low-range (the builds that don't really use stamina, and of course, the lower-level range before stamina).Now it also grants 3 additional power selections [and one power pool] for the mid-range and high-range. For the low-range, it doesn't really do that [since they weren't taking stamina anyway].
It is a buff, but I think the perception of it for balance isn't necessarily as a buff to endurance, but a buff in available powers. Given that it's not really going to increase the # of slots, it's not going to change the # of active powers that are useful. It's more so increasing utility powers, which isn't so much a direct increase in combat power. Although it may well increase the endurance consumption on the highly optimized builds [well at least, make the consumption levels more tight] because of 3 additional powers into the mix.
Now, time will tell of course
, but my view on it isn't that this is trying to solve the low-level end problem. That's just a side-benefit. It's trying to solve the issue that the vast majority takes that power pool.
Let's Dance!
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On one paw, this is a change people have been wishing for since issue.... Zero.|
Originally Posted by Castle
Here's the only catch:
You'll have to respec to take advantage of it on existing characters. Characters as they exist now, will only get the Inherent Fitness powers if they do not have any of them in their build. Conversely, if you don't you get them as Inherents and never get the option to select them as pool powers. |
On the other paw, we have the most horrifying prospect. Thirty ******* respecs to do. And not only that, respecs that can NOT be done with existing freespecs and free time BEFORE the issue drops.
On that issue, hopefully the devs could be convinced to implement peoples second longest standing request/demand besides this change; some sort of "fast spec / autospec" feature. Specifically, autoslotting of enhancements and keeping power trays the same.
If I respec only to, say, pick three new powers due to this change, or switch slots out from one power to the next, or strip off a set of IO's, it's ridiculous that we have to spend five minutes dragging every damn IO back and then redoing the power tray. The game should have a quick logic check; "Ok, character at start of respec has propel six slotted with Devastation. After respec, character still have propel with six slots, so I the Game will automagically put Devastation back on propel to help out the Player."
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There are actually some valid concerns. They may not mean anything to you but I have a few things I'd like to be made clear about this change myself.|
Originally Posted by Razia
I am happy with the changes. Kudos to the devs.
I just makes me sad to read all the complains after we get what we waned. You just can't please everyone |
First thing is...if endurance management is the basis for this change, why make the entire fitness pool inherent? Stamina alone as an inherent would work fine.
Second thing is...I get swift and hurdle regardless of if I want them or not. I can tell you right now, that playing a character who already has a passive speed boost power like a /sr or /elec scrapper or brute, I don't feel the need to go any faster than I do without turning sprint on. I hate my characters to feel too zippy, depending on the build. That's a personal preference that I don't think is all that outlandish.
Also, is the base regeneration rate for all toons too low now as well? Because we're all getting a permanent, free boost to regen via Health.
This change assumes that I will want the 3 other powers from the fitness pool by default on all my toons. I will not in every case. I have toons that have Stamina and others who don't and who don't need it. My level 25 DP/ice blaster has run out of endurance exactly one time that I can recall. Does he desperately need Stamina and all the other fitness powers?
This should still be an opt in for players.
As I posted earlier in this thread, we could just as easily have gotten a new inherent that globally reduces end consumption. So that slotting it reduced end costs across the board for all powers, still leaving people to determine if they needed extra recovery or not.
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I think the main reason Jay is so busy is the mention of updating the old costume pieces, that's a large undertaking. I really look forward to it, many old pieces look bland compared to the newer ones.
| Take all the time you need but make sure to keep Jay busy as heck! Folks really want more costume options - and soon |
Well, maybe Im the only one but this is dissapointing...
We are getting the Alpha Slot for I19, the first slot that was pushed back from GR? So, Issue: Incarnates dont exist anymore.
What about the ten lvls of Incarnates? Is so dissapointing that we need GR to use a system that dont seem to even exist, just the first slot, to be released this fall with a task force.
Hope as we learn more, I can see some light because now I feel tricked again.
Stamina inherent rock, that would leave more powers to get, but the actual power pools are so outdated and lame, and power pool custom not even in works foor anytime soon I dont have a idea of what I would get for my chars.
Sad.
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I'm not sure why running slightly faster is a problem for you, but assuming it is, let me explain what else this fixes: Rooted. Right now, my Stone/Stone Brute has to dabble into Fitness basically just to be not boring to play via being able to move at a speed faster than continental drift. There's something else this fixes: Stealth. Right now, Stealth has an inexplicable speed debuff, but that's fine, since everyone will now automatically have Swift.|
Originally Posted by Slashman
Second thing is...I get swift and hurdle regardless of if I want them or not. I can tell you right now, that playing a character who already has a passive speed boost power like a /sr or /elec scrapper or brute, I don't feel the need to go any faster than I do without turning sprint on. I hate my characters to feel too zippy, depending on the build. That's a personal preference that I don't think is all that outlandish.
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I honestly don't see a downside to these changes, other than "I'd rather not," which, while I sympathise with it, is something I am beyond convinced that even the most disgruntled will quickly forget about. I know for a fact that there have been changes I've argued strongly about, that I have simply grown to ignore within... A day. If that. For instance, I didn't approve of removing Training drops from the high levels, because I enjoyed selling them, and I still feel the same way, but now that it's actually happened, I don't really feel like arguing that point, because it's far too minor.
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As far as "power creep" goes, there really isn't much of any. You get for free powers that people were taking anyway. You change very little about the status quo of power, aside from punishing people like me who did not choose to take "the one true option." Some will indeed become stronger. Those like me, on the other hand, will be about as strong, but will be able to get there much more easily and with much less banging my fist on my desk and losing hard drives over it.
Additionally, if we're talking about the absolute best builds getting even better, I wouldn't worry. Those already skip more powers than they need to, and not out of lack of power picks. All this does is add more redundant power choices (for some), which in my mind only leads to greater freedom to take powers because we want to, rather than because we HAVE to. I don't HAVE to take Warrior's Challenge, but I WANT to take it nevertheless. More redundant power picks will let me do that.
In fact, Stamina or no Stamina, I intend to drop both Air Superiority and Mud Pots out of my Stone Stone Build and replace them with something else. What else I don't know, since I intended to replace them with Epics, but who knows? Hover, maybe? Provoke? I don't know. We'll see.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Inherent stamina is great to me because I look forward to slotting challenges. I think purples will become even more valuable because of the higher percentage enhancement that they provide. I think I will want to take sleep and snipe powers and devote slots for the cheaper bonuses, and then add a purple or 3 to my main powers to maintain nice numbers.
My wife, who doesnt play as much as me is also excited but for a different reason. She HATES toggle dropping. The game to her is about running around and blasting or defending, not endurance management. Her interest in the game wanes terribly as she struggles to maintain her toggles through the lower levels.
As a veteran player, I have characters without stamina. I can use my knowledge of I/Os, recharge, Mids, power selection, and what damage resistance/mez toggles I should run to maintain the delicate balance of certain stamina-less builds. HOWEVER, even with that knowledge, I find stamina a requirement to enjoy the game for most of my characters.
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This is true.|
Originally Posted by Nicetry
Simply by virtue of gaining the ability to add 3 more powers to your build, but no additional slots to put in them. Lots of powers don't need any/many additional slots to perform well though, so I'd expect a lot of players to start selecting them. Many have been mentioned already, so no need to repeat them.
So powers do require additional slots, like if you were skipping a decent power from your prim/sec/app in order to fit in fitness. Finding additional slots to fill them out could be a challenge in some cases. |
I much prefer getting Stamina as an inherent and being forced to set aside three slots for it on nearly every build. I am happy to be gifted this dilemma, even if it means choosing 3 one-slot utility powers. In most cases that is going to be Fly, Recall Friend, and hmmm something else.
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My only question is this. If you take the fitness pool as an inherent power, does it count against the 4 power pools you can have anymore?
Like now I may have fly, fitness, fighting and leaping on a character. Would this allow me to have fly, fitness, fighting, leadership and fitness as an inherent?
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I would assume that you would be able to take 4 pools plus your inherent, so.......Yes?|
Originally Posted by Counter_Agent
My only question is this. If you take the fitness pool as an inherent power, does it count against the 4 power pools you can have anymore?
Like now I may have fly, fitness, fighting and leaping on a character. Would this allow me to have fly, fitness, fighting, leadership and fitness as an inherent? |
People who didn't take the Fitness pool before (yes, there were some!) could take 4 non-fitness pools. Those people would get Fitness added onto thier character, while you would get your existing Fitness pool moved over to the Inherent column and have some empty power choices to fill. Wouldn't be fair for you to have three (give or take) powers less than them.
Some of the stupid in this thread burns.
There is no "power creep". All it is, is "yay no more resting for 3 minutes between mobs!"
That's all this amounts to. This isn't a damage buff. This isn't a global recharge/accuracy/defense/resistance buff that makes this easy game already easier. It's just reducing the wait time between spawns. That's IT.
Sure, a FEW powersets will benefit form this better that others, but overall it just means you'll have to pick 3 more powers and not have any slots to put in them.
Now, "power creep" WOULD exist if they gave us more slots to put INTO those extra three powers (3 extra attacks with 5 slots each are a lot more powerful than if they only had 1 slot a piece) As it stands right now though, the best you can do is have 3 under-slotted powers to possibly use as unique/proc mules. Which isn't too bad.
My only reservation is that i've worked very hard to make all my characters as functional as they are within the current system... i feel like the man who climbed a mountain, reaches the top after much hardship, and feels insanely proud of himself... and then a minute later he sees that there was an elevator there the whole time.
But I'll get over it =)
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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You can't have fitness twice. If you have it when i19 goes live, you won't get it inherently. If you respec out of it, it pops itself into your build (or rather, when you go to do a respec, it forces itself into your build and fitness is no longer selectable)
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Originally Posted by Counter_Agent
My only question is this. If you take the fitness pool as an inherent power, does it count against the 4 power pools you can have anymore?
Like now I may have fly, fitness, fighting and leaping on a character. Would this allow me to have fly, fitness, fighting, leadership and fitness as an inherent? |
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
I think I've found out why i20 needs to have a signed NDA.
Many Bothan spies died to get me this information.
They're going to replace the game with WoW. All Hero characters will turn into Gnome Fighters and all Villain characters will turn into Troll Shamans.
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*whacks DLancer with a stick*|
Originally Posted by DLancer
I think I've found out why i20 needs to have a signed NDA.
Many Bothan spies died to get me this information. They're going to replace the game with WoW. All Hero characters will turn into Gnome Fighters and all Villain characters will turn into Troll Shamans. |
You broke the NDA!
I'm telling!
*runs off to tell mommy*
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Systems and items? Unlike anything else ever done?|
Originally Posted by ransim
What we were told, which was decidedly vague, is that Issue 20 is going to include some systems and items in the game which are unlike anything else ever done. Its a major major thing and because of that they want to do a pre-beta closed period thats ultra top secret to test the ground work before going into Issue 19 closed beta.
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I'm going to drive myself crazy speculating about this...
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Totally agreed.|
Originally Posted by Mouse_Man
This I don't understand... It's really not that hard to make Apex look recognizable with existing costume parts...
 I mean, why mess with an established look? The full Vanguard suit looks bad on him... |
The Vanguard armor looks good with certain color combinations... and the red/blue on that picture of 'new' Apex looks horrid. He honestly looks as bad as the Merit Vendors (who I swear were designed using "Random").
Keep his established look. Just because he's helping Vanguard doesn't mean he has to dress in their armor. Case in point... ALL THE CONTACTS IN RWZ. None of them wear Vanguard armor.
Oh and also:
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Originally Posted by Blood_Beret
Currently fitness pool doesn't effect Kheld forms. Since it will be inherent now, will the Kheld forms get the bonus's from it?
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Endurance-free Brawl
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
And walk greys out like all your other powers. So think of something else. The new zone updates and such come from our $15 a month so I dont get what you saying with this. Dont get me wrong folks I think its a good idea, I just dont want to have to suffer for it in some way in the end thats all. Like I said before I Castle posts that this is a 100% no strings attached change (meaning no increase in power costs, or sapper like mobs at earlier levels), then I will be 100% for this change. Till then I am gonna be cautious about it.
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Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
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I have a Lvl 50 Ill/Emp controller without Fitness pool,96% of the time i do not miss it, with RA and Regen Aura,and I stand in the background and play quarterback.
for the record the other 4% of time is ship raids and respecs,and that is only if i am the only healer
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Unless they are going to give me more slots for a lot of my character this wont matter one bit. Most people will three or four slot stamina at most. Maybe a few slots in health. Thats about it. The access to three powers that I wont be able to slot to me is NOT such a big deal.
So some of my tanks that skipped taunt will now be able to pick it up.. thats good.
My controllers that didnt take Recall Friend will be able to move their pets around.. yay.. maybe I pick up SuperSpeed and Superjump on a few toons.
But really thats about it because with any real core powers I cant see myself being able to slot them out with anything.
I have always said that should start giving out MORE slots in the later levels than just three. Half the time I cannot slot that epic power properly because I DONT have enough slots. Or I have to skip a power I would really like to take because there arent enough slots.
So unless they are adding MORE slots in the later levels so I can slot that extra power or two I am going to take.. for me this is kinda...... meh... Its ok... but Its not going to be a game changer on most of my toons at all.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
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When used as Tights and not armor it looks better. But I don't like the bulky look of the "Armor" options over "Tights"
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Originally Posted by ValkyrieRising
Totally agreed.
The Vanguard armor looks good with certain color combinations... and the red/blue on that picture of 'new' Apex looks horrid. He honestly looks as bad as the Merit Vendors (who I swear were designed using "Random"). |
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Originally Posted by ValkyrieRising
Totally agreed.
The Vanguard armor looks good with certain color combinations... and the red/blue on that picture of 'new' Apex looks horrid. He honestly looks as bad as the Merit Vendors (who I swear were designed using "Random"). Keep his established look. Just because he's helping Vanguard doesn't mean he has to dress in their armor. Case in point... ALL THE CONTACTS IN RWZ. None of them wear Vanguard armor. Oh and also: I'd be curious to know the answer to this. It would definitely be cause for some slotting adjustments on my Khelds, which will actually be a good thing. |
Since you can slot End Mods in the Nova and Dwarf form base selections, I suspect that the Fitness Powers still won't work when you're in them.
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Anyone remember how long it took to test/release Grandville?
It should be interesting to see the full list of features for I20.