Tweets of the PAX Panel
By
abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2010-09-04 10:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
With Fitness becoming inherent, that means power choice is opened up. I wonder if additional Power Pools are being planned, or perhaps additional powers to be added to the pools, to 'consume' those choices.
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Easy! Tell this to every jailhouse bottom out there.
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Originally Posted by abnormal_joe
Not wanting inherent fitness is like not wanting free sex*. I'm sure some would make that choice but I will never understand why.
*now watch 100 posters attempt to craft bizarre scenarios to justify their nerdrage. |
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I disagree here. CO was epic phail out of the box so it was never competition for anyone. Now DCUO on the other hand will give CoX a run for its money. Unless there is a complete engine overhaul, like say moving off this open gl crap to direct x, something that will make good use of the graphics cards alot better than laggy *** ultra mode with not so much hella lag like grandville, we might have something.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
DCUO will destroy Champions, but I don't think it's really intended to compete with City of Heroes. From all accounts the games are going to play VERY differently.
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Apex now works for Vanguard. Nothing was said about where it was going to be Co-op or not. They did say I20 would not be out this year.
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Maybe I missed some intense technical revelation by the devs, but where did it become clear that the graphics API layer used to code the game's graphics engine was at the root of its performance issues?|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Unless there is a complete engine overhaul, like say moving off this open gl crap to direct x, something that will make good use of the graphics cards alot better than laggy *** ultra mode with not so much hella lag like grandville, we might have something.
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Sorry, but this sounds like mucho talking out of el posterior.
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On principle I am opposed to this game moving to directx. I'm not in favor of CoH moving to Microsoft's proprietary technology.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I disagree here. CO was epic phail out of the box so it was never competition for anyone. Now DCUO on the other hand will give CoX a run for its money. Unless there is a complete engine overhaul, like say moving off this open gl crap to direct x, something that will make good use of the graphics cards alot better than laggy *** ultra mode with not so much hella lag like grandville, we might have something.
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Not so much uber, but more complete. It also benefits me in that my builds really won't be so slow building to fruition.|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
I also want to propose a question to anybody who thinks inherent stamina is so important. What 3 powers would you take instead (keep in mind you get no extra slots, just powers) that would make you so uber?
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Just a few examples:
Earth/Rad/Stone Controller: Stone Prison, Choking Cloud, Combat Jumping - Gives me an easier immob to stack on AVs, a little extra "Oh Sh*t" melee protection, and some more defense. I could also grab SS instead of CJ to get a bit of stealth.
Dark/Dark/Dark Defender: Life Drain/Torrent, Oppressive Gloom, Soul Transfer - A little extra utility from the blast set (even at the base slot), and some more goodies out of my APP that I couldn't fit before.
Ice/Dark/Soul Corrupter: Aim, Bitter Freeze Ray, Power Boost - more self buffs, and a 4th single target hold. Joy!
EnergyM/Fire/Mace Brute: Taunt, Fiery Embrace, Temperature Protection or maybe the Fighting pool - utility and self-buffs that got pushed down in priority for other powers.
Ninja/FF MM, Sonic/Energy Defender, Fire/Kin Controller: LEADERSHIP!! Wheee!! I don't mind these toggles with just the default slot. It's how I've had to work them in on other characters.
Storm/Dark Defender: Gale, Torrent, Life Drain - MOAR KB!! And a small self-heal
That's just a few. This is not including several characters that currently use Ninja Run as their travel power because they only had one skippable power in their prim/sec sets.
Oh, and I also have... 15 out of 33 main characters that are completely without Fitness, who will now be getting that benefit and can make some slotting adjustments accordingly. If I can work out the slotting on all those characters, I think people will survive with 3 extra powers.
Now... if the Devs just made it so you got 5 slots at level 50 and gave Khelds 2 starting slots in each form power, I would be completely set on the powers front. Costumes though... Kheldian Sash naow kthx.
"A good Defender is the battle hardened Corpsman who will kill a Nazi with a tongue depressor while putting a splint on your leg, then hand you a fresh clip of ammo." ~Jock_Thompson
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I was at the M&G and heard mentioned that Power Customization has not been forgotten, but work on the new issues is a higher priority right now. But I also heard one of the Paragon Studios people mention Super Speed with a flame trail or an electricity trail, which could mean they are thinking of ways to customize power pools.
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Well because since day 1 they have never given us something just because. I cant think of a single instance of them giving us something for nothing like with this stamina change. I am pretty sure we are going to have some penalty for this. Either increased power costs or sappers at level 2, its going to be one or the other.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Two points:
1. Why do people speculate that base endurance costs would increase across the board? That would negate this change completely and wouldn't make any sense. 2. You aren't losing any slots by having Fitness as an inherent. You'll have the same amount of slots you've always had, except you'll have to spread them out over more powers. If that's an issue, my Khelds would like to have a word with you. |
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
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As I said before, we have never gotten something just because. There has always been some form of a price to pay. Whether its real money for ninja run as a booster, or travel powers at level 6 due to paying in so much vet time. I cant see them doing this without some penalty.
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Originally Posted by Medic_brietz
it is a sad day when you cant even rejoice over something good happening because you have to wonder what the catch is. is this speculation or can we be happy and excited for once?
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Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
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Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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[Walk]|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Well because since day 1 they have never given us something just because. I cant think of a single instance of them giving us something for nothing like with this stamina change. I am pretty sure we are going to have some penalty for this. Either increased power costs or sappers at level 2, its going to be one or the other.
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Enough said.
Heck, every new zone and bit of content they have given us 'just because'. And niether of the examples you give makes any sense. Whats the blimmin' point of making a QoL change only to add something in to counteract it?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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As would my Domi. Frankenslotting is the answer|
Originally Posted by macskull
Two points:
1. Why do people speculate that base endurance costs would increase across the board? That would negate this change completely and wouldn't make any sense. 2. You aren't losing any slots by having Fitness as an inherent. You'll have the same amount of slots you've always had, except you'll have to spread them out over more powers. If that's an issue, my Khelds would like to have a word with you. |
I mean you can even take 3 throw-away powers and never/rarely use them and be just as you are now. Melee types could take Combat Jumping, or not feel so bad about having to take Box or Kick from the fighting pool. My TPers will be taking Hover now, many of my characters can take things like Rez powers or Smoke or a marginal panic button power like Bonfire. And a lot of my characters will be able to take a choice of travel powers rather than being stuck with Superspeed because choices were too tight.
I do hope that the silly restriction with Kheld forms and the Fitness pool is lifted now it's becoming an inherent though.
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Many games run so much better on direct x than they do on open gl. Thats mostly due to alot of the changes that happened after windows xp. I think moving the game to direct x would be good and make performance better. The only problem is it might make it harder on the mac users. Unless they figure out a way to make a wrapper to translate the direct x api to mac.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
On principle I am opposed to this game moving to directx. I'm not in favor of CoH moving to Microsoft's proprietary technology.
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Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
I've got an idea that SOE cares less about DCUO on the PC than it does on the PS3. Less than two months to launch and still no announcement of a public beta - at the very least a large scale PC compatability test - is odd if SOE really wanted a successful PC launch.
(Also: apparently we can mention other games in this thread!)
Anyway, the Fitness inherent - the biggest complaint CoH/V gets recently (that I've seen) is that it is a slow game. It wasn't 6 years ago, but it is now. Add more endurance and recovery abilities and suddently that isn't as much of an issue - you can roll through targets more quickly without having to take a knee.
That said, it is a major change to the game and will have consequences (positive and negative) that haven't yet been considered. Characters will look to grab more powers that work well with one- or two-slots and help them in other ways, which could throw out what is considered 'balanced' by a long way... and its been mentioned previously that sometimes end-use was used as a balancing mechanism for ATs / powersets.
Then add in Incarnate slots, which alter power balance further at lvl 50.
As always, I'm adopting a wait and see approach - GoRo had me all excited at announcement, but by launch I'd truly descended into meh territory. That I19 is apparently going to be full of things that should have been in GoRo raises some interesting questions about what is going to be paid for and what is going to be free (especially I20: major changes that need a blood pact to see, hot on the heels of a paid expansion, for free?).
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And walk greys out like all your other powers. So think of something else. The new zone updates and such come from our $15 a month so I dont get what you saying with this. Dont get me wrong folks I think its a good idea, I just dont want to have to suffer for it in some way in the end thats all. Like I said before I Castle posts that this is a 100% no strings attached change (meaning no increase in power costs, or sapper like mobs at earlier levels), then I will be 100% for this change. Till then I am gonna be cautious about it.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
[Walk]
Enough said. Heck, every new zone and bit of content they have given us 'just because'. And niether of the examples you give makes any sense. Whats the blimmin' point of making a QoL change only to add something in to counteract it? |
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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That's just nonsense I'm afraid. We've had plenty of QoL changes with no penalty.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
As I said before, we have never gotten something just because. There has always been some form of a price to pay. Whether its real money for ninja run as a booster, or travel powers at level 6 due to paying in so much vet time. I cant see them doing this without some penalty.
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Gleemail for example. Increased Acc for levels 1-20, Combat Numbers. Increased Sprint speed, decreased Rest recharge, increased Hover speed.
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So I have to respec all my chars before I19 or my existing chars won't be getting the Inherent Fitness powers ever?|
Originally Posted by Castle
Here's the only catch:
You'll have to respec to take advantage of it on existing characters. Characters as they exist now, will only get the Inherent Fitness powers if they do not have any of them in their build. Conversely, if you don't you get them as Inherents and never get the option to select them as pool powers. |
Not even after a respec I do after I19 gets launched?
To be honest that is a bit crazy if that's really the case. So I better make sure not to miss the I19 release date and do a respec on all my existing chars before then. After I19 gets released I have to respec them all again to be able to slot Fitness Powers? Okaaay, weird.
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Yeah, I feel the same way. In 6 years we have never gotten something for nothing. Every buff we've ever gotten has come with a catch. So I'm trying to be optimistic here, but I get this sinking feeling we're all going to regret begging for this.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
As I said before, we have never gotten something just because. There has always been some form of a price to pay. Whether its real money for ninja run as a booster, or travel powers at level 6 due to paying in so much vet time. I cant see them doing this without some penalty.
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Erm, no. Quite the opposite. First thing you'll need to do is to respec once the change goes live for the effect to kick in.|
Originally Posted by SuperDonkey
So I have to respec all my chars before I19 or my existing chars won't be getting the Inherent Fitness powers ever?
Not even after a respec I do after I19 gets launched? To be honest that is a bit crazy if that's really the case. So I better make sure not to miss the I19 release date and do a respec on all my existing chars then. and then when I19 gets released I respec them all again to be able to slot these powers? Okaaay, weird. |
Which is slightly annoying for some of my characters which do quite well without it.
It is actually the one time I could find myself agreeing with optical_illusions call for 2 freespecs instead of one, just with this issue (god have mercy on my soul) since I'll need to respec my SoA twice.
Of course if it means burning a Vet respec or respeccing one build and then running a Respec Trial for the other I can live with that too.
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No. If you already have powers from Fitness you won't get the inherents until you respec out of them. It doesn't matter when you do the respec.|
Originally Posted by SuperDonkey
So I have to respec all my chars before I19 or my existing chars won't be getting the Inherent Fitness powers ever?
Not even after a respec I do after I19 gets launched? To be honest that is a bit crazy if that's really the case. So I better make sure not to miss the I19 release date and do a respec on all my existing chars before then. After I19 gets released I have to respec them all again to be able to slot Fitness Powers? Okaaay, weird. |
You can't have the inherents and the Fitness pool powers at the same time, it's one or the other. Once you start the respec the inherents will unlock and the Fitness pool disappears.
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I never asked for it! So, let be optimistic and see it as a no-strings attached, sure thing, all win (though I still thin Stamina and Health will ramp up to full power at level 20, rather than...boom you have it!)
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Originally Posted by Captain Fabulous
Yeah, I feel the same way. In 6 years we have never gotten something for nothing. Every buff we've ever gotten has come with a catch. So I'm trying to be optimistic here, but I get this sinking feeling we're all going to regret begging for this.
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The BrandX Collection
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The fitness pool doesn't make the game 'easy', it makes it tolerable, that's why almost everyone feels they need to take it on almost every toon they make.|
Originally Posted by Liz Bathory
I am actually not so sure fitness as inherent is a good thing. It was one of the things that made people think about which powers to take. One of the things that could completly go wrong in a build.
So making powerful builds becomes easier... the game becomes easier... again! Do we want it so easy? I am not sure... |
Having swift/hurdle, health and stamina certainly is not some kind of 'i win button', it just lessens annoying factors of the game. Swift or hurdle isn't making anyone uber. Health isn't going to help you solo av's.
The biggest thing is stamina. Not having to wait for your your endurance to come back in between every enemy group, or not constantly running out of end in the middle of fights, isn't easy, it's just not frustrating, annoying and unfun. And even getting stamina is not going to eliminate endurance issues, it's just going to make them less ridiculous, especially for low level toons, and especially for low level toons that require toggles. Even with top end builds, you can still run into end issues with stamina.
This is a great decision by the dev team. Then on top of what I mentioned above, they're giving players 3 more options for power choices, which can create more varied builds.
I'm also glad to hear that issue 19 is coming out in the fall and they're already looking to test issue 20, which seems to indicate they are rolling out issues more quickly. I also like the fact theyve included a new tf in I19 and that primal toons will be able to enter praetoria. It makes me forget all about the recent emote pack they revealed, lol.
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Well, in all fairness sometimes we do get things "with no penalty", but they're usually done half-*****. And I'm not sure I would qualify making the Fitness pool inherent a QoL change.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
That's just nonsense I'm afraid. We've had plenty of QoL changes with no penalty.
Gleemail for example. Increased Acc for levels 1-20, Combat Numbers. Increased Sprint speed, decreased Rest recharge, increased Hover speed. |
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Pre-SO levels are pretty miserable, especially if you're running out of endurance constantly, missing all the time, doing low damage, and have to fill up half your power picks with prereqs. Free fitness is definitely an improvement to the game experience, especially early on.
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Originally Posted by Captain Fabulous
Well, in all fairness sometimes we do get things "with no penalty", but they're usually done half-*****. And I'm not sure I would qualify making the Fitness pool inherent a QoL change.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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It's never been used before, so I'm thinking that Issue 20 is going to be a major change to the game in some fashion. I'm also not sure that it's going to be one the players are necessarily going to like. (If it were, why require the signature on the NDA?)
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