Tweets of the PAX Panel
By
abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2010-09-04 10:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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The Party Pack did not come up during the panel, nor during the M&G afterwards.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Hope they comment on the Party Pack.
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Seriously scratching my head over people concerned about slots. You're not gonna lose any slots. You are still (presumably) gonna two- or three-slot Health and Stamina. You are gaining three power picks. How could this possibly introduce slotting problems on existing or future characters?
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Easy, and respectful.|
Originally Posted by abnormal_joe
Not wanting inherent fitness is like not wanting free sex*. I'm sure some would make that choice but I will never understand why.
*now watch 100 posters attempt to craft bizarre scenarios to justify their nerdrage. |
Free sex is fine when you are single.
As a married/engaged/exclusive relationship aknowledged and respected on both ends, the question is, where is this 'free' sex coming from.
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Simply by virtue of gaining the ability to add 3 more powers to your build, but no additional slots to put in them. Lots of powers don't need any/many additional slots to perform well though, so I'd expect a lot of players to start selecting them. Many have been mentioned already, so no need to repeat them.|
Originally Posted by Emberly
Seriously scratching my head over people concerned about slots. You're not gonna lose any slots. You are still (presumably) gonna two- or three-slot Health and Stamina. You are gaining three power picks. How could this possibly introduce slotting problems on existing or future characters?
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So powers do require additional slots, like if you were skipping a decent power from your prim/sec/app in order to fit in fitness. Finding additional slots to fill them out could be a challenge in some cases.
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Slot starvation, mostly. Three extra powers is three more powers to potentially|
Originally Posted by Emberly
Seriously scratching my head over people concerned about slots. You're not gonna lose any slots. You are still (presumably) gonna two- or three-slot Health and Stamina. You are gaining three power picks. How could this possibly introduce slotting problems on existing or future characters?
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need slots. Some builds are pretty tight on slots as it is.
It's nothing people can't work around, and easily. But it is going to cause an awful
lot of "junk" or "mule" picks, just to fill space, with the corresponding "I'd like to
do something with this power, but can't afford to..." feelings to go with it.
Basically more and more builds are going to feel like slotting tri-form khelds.
Just wondering if anyone recalls one of the reasons for not giving regen to brutes was because of quick recovery at level 4 and how a brute with significantly less endurance management issues in the early game would present balance concerns.
Or am I just making that up?
If I'm not just making that up then it seems every brute now gets that ability from level 1/2 on!
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No it wasn't and honestly I completely forgot to ask about it. But I assume we aren't getting costumes in it because Sexy Jay is apparently overbooked for mysterious unknown reasons. |
Originally Posted by Emperor_Justin
Was the Party Pack addressed at all?
Also, thanks so much for the updates. You rock! |
As far as the signed NDA and Issue 20 beta.
What we were told, which was decidedly vague, is that Issue 20 is going to include some systems and items in the game which are unlike anything else ever done. Its a major major thing and because of that they want to do a pre-beta closed period thats ultra top secret to test the ground work before going into Issue 19 closed beta.
Issue 19 beta, from what I understood though I could be wrong, won't start until after the Issue 20 closed beta period that will start in about a week.
I also had a brief moment to talk to War Witch about bases and the state thereof and while they really want to re-approach bases its not a simple issue. The system is old and has issues, they are aware of, and its not an easy job to fix or change.
It also runs into the same problem they are having with trying to use new Praetoria assets with old assets. It just looks bad next to each other. There are also apparently other issues that make including those assets into the base system hard to do. She is very interested in looking back at bases, but its really about determining its priority and whether something else should be shifted to allow it to be addressed.
I am now off to bed after fun at the meet and greet. I'll try to check this tomorrow if anyone else wants clarification on my frantic tweeting.
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I had to make the consession of a 1 Slotted Typhoon's Edge on my DB/WP who had to have that one power for concept, I'm sure I can handle three new powers terribly unslotted for maximum effectiveness, just to get closer to my concept |
Originally Posted by Puppycrusader
Slot starvation, mostly. Three extra powers is three more powers to potentially
need slots. Some builds are pretty tight on slots as it is. It's nothing people can't work around, and easily. But it is going to cause an awful lot of "junk" or "mule" picks, just to fill space, with the corresponding "I'd like to do something with this power, but can't afford to..." feelings to go with it. Basically more and more builds are going to feel like slotting tri-form khelds. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I don't specifically remember that argument against Regen for Brutes. Not from the devs, at least. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I don't recall it.
In any case, QR is better than Stamina. Not by a ton, but by a noticeable amount.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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But seriously, this is like being unhappy that you didn't get cheese on the totally free double hamburger you were given when you were hungry. Yes, I get being disappointed if you much prefer cheeseburgers, but it's not like not having cheese on the free hamburger made you more hungry, or made the hamburger less filling.|
Originally Posted by Nicetry
Simply by virtue of gaining the ability to add 3 more powers to your build, but no additional slots to put in them. Lots of powers don't need any/many additional slots to perform well though, so I'd expect a lot of players to start selecting them. Many have been mentioned already, so no need to repeat them.
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Pick powers that don't need a lot of (or any) slots. Search for ways to move slots around. Or pick powers that could use more slots and underslot them to get some but not maximal benefit. Or try to use the powers as IO mules.
It's practically guaranteed that this will be some sort of net improvement to every character, but that improvement might be (very) small. It seems likely to me that it's not supposed to be much of an improvement to builds that already had and slotted Fitness.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Two points:
1. Why do people speculate that base endurance costs would increase across the board? That would negate this change completely and wouldn't make any sense.
2. You aren't losing any slots by having Fitness as an inherent. You'll have the same amount of slots you've always had, except you'll have to spread them out over more powers. If that's an issue, my Khelds would like to have a word with you.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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I'm not sure why you quoted my passage and then proceeded to seemingly counter what I said by repeating what I said.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
But seriously, this is like being unhappy that you didn't get cheese on the totally free double hamburger you were given when you were hungry. Yes, I get being disappointed if you much prefer cheeseburgers, but it's not like not having cheese on the free hamburger made you more hungry, or made the hamburger less filling.
Pick powers that don't need a lot of (or any) slots. Search for ways to move slots around. Or pick powers that could use more slots and underslot them to get some but not maximal benefit. Or try to use the powers as IO mules. It's practically guaranteed that this will be some sort of net improvement to every character, but that improvement might be (very) small. It seems likely to me that it's not supposed to be much of an improvement to builds that already had and slotted Fitness. |
I'm probably just inserting tone where it doesn't exist though and you probably just wanted to emphasize the points that many people have been making - especially about how easy it will be to destroy content now that practically any build can include vengeance. That is certainly a marked performance increase for teams 20+ with no necessary slot investment that can trivialize most content. Not that teams don't already breeze through most of the game, but even more so with these changes provided one takes advantage of it.
I'd recommend players select manuevers with a lotg+rech. Run it or don't depending on situation/team make up. Tactics to flip on if you get perception debuffed or otherwise struggle to hit something. And veng with a lotg+rech. Trivialize content and add an extra 15% rech to your build with no slots necessary. Personally if one were to take that route they'd probably find that toons that already used stamina would notice the largest increase in their abilities compared to toons that already built without stamina as they either already had leadership, or won't be gaining any extra build room to fit it in. And if they already built without stamina they probably largely found a method to overcoming their endurance concerns. Though they may be able to slot more aggressively now.
I dont know about this stamina thing. Something tells me we are going to pay for this in some way. Whether its powers costing more endurance or the implimentation of more critters who end drain but at lower levels. Think about fighting that crazy electric chick boss that shows up in the tip missions but at like level 5. No one would be able to beat that even with stamina. If Castle can promise us that there is not going to be some penalty for it in some way (more expensive power costs or more end drain critters), then I can get behind the idea of this.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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Same number of slots having to be spread across more powers. You'll definitely need to think and prioritize your power selections and slot allocations, particularly if you want to chase set bonuses.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I dont know about this stamina thing. Something tells me we are going to pay for this in some way.
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Question:
Will we be receiving 2 Freespecs in 19, due to the fact that the vast majority of characters over 20 have Stamina, and most have Stamina on both builds, thus needing 2 respecs in order to fix their builds.
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He called it a minor upgrade to one set of mission maps (I think he called it a "tray" of maps, or something like that, then mentioned that he was using an internal developers term). Gave the impression it was something like "the office maps" or "the blue cave maps", but did not say which set. |
Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
I can't make sense of this. If there's a single update affecting all mission maps, then it's hardly minor. Maybe it means there's a new tileset coming?
What in the world can this mean? I'm very excited by the mention of 'new systems' that are going to require more Beta time. Content, powers and zones are all great, but new systems are what really keep the game fresh. So, I'm guessing that 'casual paths' means some sort of non-combat advancement or other downtime activity. |
It was a *minor* change, though. Could be as minor as something like swapping out the CRT monitors with LCD's (That is a wild guess on my part).
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I just reread your whole post (it's not very long, but I didn't quote all of it), and I really don't see how I did what you're saying here. Maybe I'm just not parsing your earlier post correctly.|
Originally Posted by Nicetry
I'm not sure why you quoted my passage and then proceeded to seemingly counter what I said by repeating what I said.
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I do agree with the rest of this post.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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THIS is exactly my question. I just burned a darn respec and now I have to do the carp again just to get something for free or never get it at all? This is cool, but not cool you know? If so, i am kinda steamed i blew a respec for a patron PP or an update on a build only to find out I need it here soon to change yet again. What gives????
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Originally Posted by SolarSentai
This.
I'm confused. I need to respec prior to i19 to get Fitness as an inherent? And if I don't, I will never be able to, and then lose access to the Fitness power pool on top of that after I respec? Or, i19 goes live. I respec after and Fitness becomes inherent and all is well? |
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it is a sad day when you cant even rejoice over something good happening because you have to wonder what the catch is. is this speculation or can we be happy and excited for once?
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I dont know about this stamina thing. Something tells me we are going to pay for this in some way. Whether its powers costing more endurance or the implimentation of more critters who end drain but at lower levels. Think about fighting that crazy electric chick boss that shows up in the tip missions but at like level 5. No one would be able to beat that even with stamina. If Castle can promise us that there is not going to be some penalty for it in some way (more expensive power costs or more end drain critters), then I can get behind the idea of this.
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That's an interesting point.|
Originally Posted by Candlestick
Will we be receiving 2 Freespecs in 19, due to the fact that the vast majority of characters over 20 have Stamina, and most have Stamina on both builds, thus needing 2 respecs in order to fix their builds.
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I really have no idea how many people have dual builds. I know very few that use them, personally. Still, it'd be nice for the people that do have dual builds to be able to respec all of the when the devs make powers changes.
From what I recall, there will actually be more builds available once the Incarnate stuff rolls out.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Sorry bout that, I was definitely reading negative tone where it did not exist.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I just reread your whole post (it's not very long, but I didn't quote all of it), and I really don't see how I did what you're saying here. Maybe I'm just not parsing your earlier post correctly.
I do agree with the rest of this post. |
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why would they nerf endurance in any way? The power itself isnt changing in function or scale. If they were to nerf endurance they'd basically be doing a game wide nerf to virtually everyone for no reason at all.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I dont know about this stamina thing. Something tells me we are going to pay for this in some way. Whether its powers costing more endurance or the implimentation of more critters who end drain but at lower levels. Think about fighting that crazy electric chick boss that shows up in the tip missions but at like level 5. No one would be able to beat that even with stamina. If Castle can promise us that there is not going to be some penalty for it in some way (more expensive power costs or more end drain critters), then I can get behind the idea of this.
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It's simply becoming inherent instead of being a pool power
Other than that no changes.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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No, the Party Pack was not mentioned.
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Originally Posted by Emperor_Justin
Was the Party Pack addressed at all?
Also, thanks so much for the updates. You rock! |
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There is no such thing as free sex. Period. There is always a cost.|
Originally Posted by abnormal_joe
Not wanting inherent fitness is like not wanting free sex*. I'm sure some would make that choice but I will never understand why.
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
Just got home, so is there any transcript of the whole panel?
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regarding issue 20 and coh 2.0.
it would be very interesting to see what the numbers are on detected video cards within the playerbase. without those numbers continued statements of swaths of players still using pentium 3 and nvidia geforce seems overrepresented given the realistic minimums required to actually run the game at better than 5 frames per second, let alone use went's.
taking eve as the example of the reissue/ upgrade cycle (rather than a new game and fractured player base shown in lineage, etc) suggested earlier, they introduced a brand new engine to accommodate the graphical update. is it really realistic to have done all the work on ultramode and the expansion in praetoria if less than a year later they dump it for a new engine? on the flip side, all the work needed to make ultramode a reality and a variety of dev comments that basically amount to 'we can't do that due to inherent limitations of the engine' suggest some very real and potentially expensive walls to progress on that front.
can we expect some more type r programming in the future? probably. a whole new type r engine? unless they can directly port the assets and characters while somehow upgrading all the textures and everything else it seems unlikely, but not impossible. is there a way to do this in stages perhaps, with ultra mode as a first step and the underlying engine next so as not to be wasteful?
Kittens give Morbo gas.