Tweets of the PAX Panel
By
abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2010-09-04 10:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Hmm, hard to say. On one hand, it would still carry the nerf of no longer being able to 6 slot Stamina, but it would have freed up 3 power selections at that time. I think it would have certainly been a better time to do it [hindsight and all that].|
Originally Posted by LISAR
Can you imagine what the response to ED would have been like if Fitness was made inherit in the same patch?
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Probably could have even gotten away with removing it as a power then too. Which, while I do like the idea of being to customize what's left with slotting, I think would have been a good idea all the same.
Let's Dance!
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So are we getting more slots so we can slot the three powers we're going to take instead of these? Because if not, then making them inherent really doesn't change anything.
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Originally Posted by Castle
Yes, they are enhanceable and you can add up to 5 additional slots to them, just like the current versions. The powers are all available either at level 1 or 2 (I forget at the moment) -- no waiting 'til 20 for Stamina.
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@Arwen Darkblade
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And i just built myself a system capable of running CoX with the settings cranked to high.|
Originally Posted by Biidi
Okay, slottable Fitness inherent at level 1 or 2, great. Now what's this about a *SIGNED* NDA? As in actually literally signed? Implies something BIG that they want testers to really understand to keep quiet about it. Let the rampant baseless speculation begin! ...again!
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Though i dunno if i'll get into the beta. i'm not exactly a huge number cruncher, i just let others do the crunching and look over the results. Hell, i can't even guarantee devoting a lot of time to a beta anyway.
Still, the PAX announcements were a bit of a shock in a good way.
Dr. Todt's theme.
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So this is pretty exciting. Endgame content, including the Incarnate system and Apex Task Force. Crossover to and from Praetoria. Some updates to mission maps. And the big one - inherent Fitness powers. I'm really impressed! 
Also, I think a replacement for fitness, passive powers which give, say, +2.5% max health and another which gives +2.5% max end. might be nice, esp. for those that don't really have anywhere good to allocate their powers.
Basically, one or more weak passive pools might be nice.
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Yes it does.|
Originally Posted by ArwenDarkblade
So are we getting more slots so we can slot the three powers we're going to take instead of these? Because if not, then making them inherent really doesn't change anything.
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For me anyway.
It' not uncommon that there are pool powers i'd love to take that require minimal slotting that i just don't have enough pools to take. Or primary or secondary powers that are useful with only the base slot if a bit situational.
Revive, Hasten, Stealth, Combat Jumping, Super Speed... all useful even with just one slot.
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Aye. If we don't get extra slots, it's going to make already tight builds tighter.
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Originally Posted by ArwenDarkblade
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If you read the other posts in this topic you'll see how much this changes for MANY people including myself|
Originally Posted by ArwenDarkblade
So are we getting more slots so we can slot the three powers we're going to take instead of these? Because if not, then making them inherent really doesn't change anything.
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Examples:
1) People who currently rely on ninja run (a paid for add on) to serve as a bootleg travel power cause their build is too tight to fit in a standard one can now take travel powers.
2) Many utility powers that are great without any additional slotting are often skipped because of tight build constraints (my ill/rad for example skips mutation and group invis currently) can now be taken
3) Power choices from 1-20 no longer have 3 choices omitted/put off till later due to fitness powers eating up 3 choices.
4) Not every build is slot starved. Many builds have some wiggle room with slots allowing for slotting additional powers if there was room for them... and now there will be!
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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No it really isn't going to do that at all.|
Originally Posted by Kheldarn
Aye. If we don't get extra slots, it's going to make already tight builds tighter.
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You current build will not get any tighter it will stay exactly the same.
Sure you may not have the slots to slot any of the NEW powers you pick up but that doesnt change how tight your CURRENT build is
What it DOES do is potentially open a wealth of options up for you
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Originally Posted by Castle
Yes, they are enhanceable and you can add up to 5 additional slots to them, just like the current versions. The powers are all available either at level 1 or 2 (I forget at the moment) -- no waiting 'til 20 for Stamina.
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Heres to hoping that the catch doesn't include a global endurance cost increase balance patch.
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I would be easier to tone down Stamina then beef up every other powers end cost.
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Originally Posted by Noyjitat
Heres to hoping that the catch doesn't include a global endurance cost increase balance patch.
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My builds take Swift, Health, and Stamina. I use 4 slots on Health and Stamina. With them as Slottable Inherants, I will still be using those 4 slots. That means I'll have 4 less slots to use on Primary, Secondary, Pool, and Ancillary Powers.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
No it really isn't going to do that at all.
You current build will not get any tighter it will stay exactly the same. Sure you may not have the slots to slot any of the NEW powers you pick up but that doesnt change how tight your CURRENT build is What it DOES do is potentially open a wealth of options up for you |
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This. The vanguard suit and color combo just looks absolutely terrible. It's embarrassingly bad.
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Originally Posted by Mouse_Man
This I don't understand... It's really not that hard to make Apex look recognizable with existing costume parts...
 I mean, why mess with an established look? The full Vanguard suit looks bad on him... |
yay, Fitness being inherent will allow me to have SS and SJ on multiple characters and I've been wanting to fit in Tough on my Thugs/Pain MM for a while now.
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You wont have any less slots than you have now|
Originally Posted by Kheldarn
My builds take Swift, Health, and Stamina. I use 4 slots on Health and Stamina. With them as Slottable Inherants, I will still be using those 4 slots. That means I'll have 4 less slots to use on Primary, Secondary, Pool, and Ancillary Powers.
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you'll just have 3 more powers to choose... none of which NEED to be slotted unless you choose to. Your build could stay exactly the same and you could say pick up the concealment pool powers as mules for more LotGs and call it a day. Picking up 22.5% recharge doesn't sound so bad does it?
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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My initial post in this thread was to Castle, asking for the reasoning behind this change (instead of what I saw as another option, or doing nothing). With fitness becoming inherent, there's no change to offset the global buff every toon is getting (either immediately, or on a respec). We're getting power creep, and I am wondering why.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Doing this at all creates power creep unless it comes pre-loaded with a nerf. Making this part of the base rates would be a nerf to everyone who has set bonuses, uniques or procs in Health and Stamina, a wash to anyone who has nothing but SOs or commons in them, and a buff to everyone with +regen or +recovery powers.
The question is which way creates the least power creep, or the most acceptable form of creep, hopefully while nerfing the fewest people. I think the option that does that best is probably the one they have chosen. |
As I pointed out earlier, current power numbers would have to be re-examined if the base rates were changed, and that is a lot of work. And you're right, it would be a nerf to high end builds unless set bonuses were looked at as well. It's probably not a viable alternative at all, really.
The assumption in the majority of this thread seems to be that low level endurance recovery is really the issue being addressed here. But then there's an even simpler solution: just give Beginner's Luck an scaling endurance recovery buff, similar to it's accuracy buff.
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Really now? I have the box right here, and I don't see a single thing on it that's not in GR.
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Originally Posted by Eisenzahn
GR shipped with a lot of stuff missing that was promised on the box, and I'm glad it's not anywhere near as huge a wait as there was for Grandville in CoV, for example.
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I dont think this change is just to make the lower levels less "gasping for end omg!"
I think statistically over the years its a given that most players pick up stamina... and game play is largely improved by having these powers. Hell even many regen/willpower types who get quick recovery and fast healing often take fitness powers to stack on top.
The quality of life comes in the fact that you dont have to put off desired powers till later so you can meet the requirements of stamina, you can choose fun/utility powers that require little to no slotting (like say forcebolt or mutation or group invisibility for example which often get skipped in very tight builds) and you wont have to go without travel powers just to fit in the things you need.
Players have asked for the fitness pool to be inherent for years now. Its time has come.
What I don't get is how anyone in their right mind can think this is a bad thing or hurts any build currently in play in any way at all. It doesnt.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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It changes things for people who don't take them now, because they want other stuff instead.|
Originally Posted by ArwenDarkblade
So are we getting more slots so we can slot the three powers we're going to take instead of these? Because if not, then making them inherent really doesn't change anything.
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It changes things for everyone from 1-20-something.
We shouldn't assume they actually want to raise the roof very far, but they might make the house inside more comfy.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Please please please please PLEASE. Blueside needs it so badly.
| Old zones may see an update to make them look nicer |
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And the numbers/effects provided are the same, and they take the same set bonuses?|
Originally Posted by Castle
Yes, they are enhanceable and you can add up to 5 additional slots to them, just like the current versions. The powers are all available either at level 1 or 2 (I forget at the moment) -- no waiting 'til 20 for Stamina.
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If so, that's amazing. It will free me up to take lots of the little one-shot-wonder powers that I normally skip.
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That word "available" has me a little worried. Are all four powers automatically granted at 2, or does this just open them up for choice without involving prerequisites or using one of your four power pool choices?
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Originally Posted by Castle
Yes, they are enhanceable and you can add up to 5 additional slots to them, just like the current versions. The powers are all available either at level 1 or 2 (I forget at the moment) -- no waiting 'til 20 for Stamina.
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The signature requirement for testing Issue 20 makes me a little cautious.
It's never been used before, so I'm thinking that Issue 20 is going to be a major change to the game in some fashion. I'm also not sure that it's going to be one the players are necessarily going to like. (If it were, why require the signature on the NDA?)
On the other hand, releasing an issue right after your getting a second competitor-- and one that will pose a significantly greater threat simply from brand recognition alone-- that would cause player agitation wouldn't seem to make much sense to me either ...
I wonder if we're going to get all four powers as Inherent-- so that everyone will have both Swift and Hurdle from here on out ...
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Available as in Rest isn't available until level 2, and the kheldian travel powers aren't available until level 10. They're still inherent.
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Originally Posted by MagicFlyingHippy
That word "available" has me a little worried. Are all four powers automatically granted at 2, or does this just open them up for choice without involving prerequisites or using one of your four power pool choices?
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Be well, people of CoH.