Tweets of the PAX Panel
By
abnormal_joe,
Posted on: 2010-09-04 10:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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It has been a while since I looked carefully at the numbers and the results (And I haven't since the most recent speed changes), but I've been under the opinion that adding more slots to Swift (For one travel type) is not worth it, as it is such a small percentage boost of a very small percentage boost (Swift only grants a small increase and extra slots hardly increases that increase at all).|
Originally Posted by Psyte
Need? Maybe not. Want to? Oh yes
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So, better to put the slots for speed increase directly into the respective travel power(s).
And, not much point in going over that travel power's speed cap.
However, I do not currently know how many slots/enhancements it takes to get to the current Flight Speed cap. I plan to look that up though, as I intend to do some respecs.
If you use Mids, you can find out easily enough.
I can let you know what I find when I find it.
I like Electric-Knight to be at the cap for flight speed, but I don't plan to waste a slot (Or two) to be over that cap.
EDIT:
Quick Glance... Looks to me that the Flight Speed cap (58.6 MPH) is reached with just two Flight SOs plus unslotted Swift (60.1 MPH).
I think E-K currently has three slots in Flight, so I need to move one of those out of there.
With level 50 IOs, two in Fly and One in Swift has you at 64.2 MPH, but still capped at 58.6 MPH, of course.
I'd say anything beyond two in Flight and one in Swift is overkill (Disregarding any sets you may want), but I'm far from a number cruncher.
I did study up on the travel speeds several moons ago, because I was interested to see, but it's not something I remember fully any more.
Anyways... that's all, thought you might like to know!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
I really like the new inherent Fitness pool. But I would sure appreciate getting more slots to go along with it. I would like to humbly suggest that they change and allow 3 slots at slot levels up to 30 instead of the present 2.
As a person who does not spend hours analyzing powers and enhancements for the maximum benefit, I usually pick what makes sense to me. This would certainly make my playing more fun.
It would also be nice if they had an offline character builder like Mids, I like to plot out my builds rather than spend hours at the level up screen.
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That's actually not true at all. The loudest are the people attempting to shout down anybody that has any potential concerns with the change.
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Originally Posted by Baneful
The Squeaky Wheel gets the grease. The Doomsayers (in this case the squeaky wheels) are the loudest, and when you start multiplying by Zero you get, Zero.
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Perhaps I'm not understanding you(and honestly I'm thinking you meant something other than what interpreted), but why not just use Mid's?
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Originally Posted by Bjork_NA
It would also be nice if they had an offline character builder like Mids, I like to plot out my builds rather than spend hours at the level up screen.
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Personally, I'd like to be able to import from Mids or something. But I can see why the desire - if you could do it offline/out of game, then bring it straight into the game, it might be a lot more convenient.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
Perhaps I'm not understanding you(and honestly I'm thinking you meant something other than what interpreted), but why not just use Mid's?
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Ok, I get it now. I'm not sure why I didn't understand initially(maybe its the Miller Lite).
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Originally Posted by Psyte
Personally, I'd like to be able to import from Mids or something. But I can see why the desire - if you could do it offline/out of game, then bring it straight into the game, it might be a lot more convenient.
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Actually the dev seemed to have taken a lot of the negatives into consideration based on what we were told at the panel. Its precisely why they waited to do it. So I'm fairly confident we aren't going to see any nasty side effects. But who knows.|
Originally Posted by UnSub
It's a fairly significant change to how characters are built and there will be consequences as a result of those changes.
We don't know what those consequences may be just yet. On a per character basis, inherent Fitness looks positive, but there may be some negative outcomes at the overall level. We'll have to wait and see what happens when inherent Fitness goes into public testing. |
Its possible the numbers are going to be a bit different then they are for fitness as a powerpool.
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Nah. All you get when multiplying or divinding by zero is;|
Originally Posted by Baneful
The Squeaky Wheel gets the grease. The Doomsayers (in this case the squeaky wheels) are the loudest, and when you start multiplying by Zero you get, Zero.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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the one thing i notice about inherents is their utility in the early game tapering off into near disuse. |
Originally Posted by ransim
Actually the dev seemed to have taken a lot of the negatives into consideration based on what we were told at the panel. Its precisely why they waited to do it. So I'm fairly confident we aren't going to see any nasty side effects. But who knows.
Its possible the numbers are going to be a bit different then they are for fitness as a powerpool. |
fitness in the inherent pool definitely fills a large fun sucking hole in the early game by limiting the amount of rest one needs to take and giving back 3 power picks for more things to mash, all pre lvl 20. post lvl 20 stamina still has a large effect on uptime that may be exceeding expectations of player survival/risk in some situations. i could see a similar tapering of stamina's effectiveness into the late game where it may then be influenced by incarnate offerings.
/2inf
Kittens give Morbo gas.
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If they did that, there'd be enough slots to 6 slot everything, just about. There'd be no build challenge at all, and already almost overpowered IO stuff would become blindingly worse. If they weren'y going to do Incarnate, I could see that maybe happening, but given the Incarnate Endgame stuff, I don't see it ever happening.
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Originally Posted by Bjork_NA
I really like the new inherent Fitness pool. But I would sure appreciate getting more slots to go along with it. I would like to humbly suggest that they change and allow 3 slots at slot levels up to 30 instead of the present 2.
As a person who does not spend hours analyzing powers and enhancements for the maximum benefit, I usually pick what makes sense to me. This would certainly make my playing more fun. It would also be nice if they had an offline character builder like Mids, I like to plot out my builds rather than spend hours at the level up screen. |
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
I'm just curious - Sappers and Carnies aside, are enemies built on the assuption that players have Health and Stamina? Certainly not the low-level ones since nobody has Stamina until level 20, but what about higher level ones?
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You know, I've always wondered that myself, would be nice to know if that were the case or not. It really doesn't matter beyond incidental, but I'm curious. Something tells me they'll be built from i19 on with that in mind though, at least base-slotted wise if they're not though, I would think.
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Originally Posted by Psyte
I'm just curious - Sappers and Carnies aside, are enemies built on the assuption that players have Health and Stamina? Certainly not the low-level ones since nobody has Stamina until level 20, but what about higher level ones?
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"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
I think they are...due to how many blasters would end up dead at lvl 40 w/o Stamina or End reductions slotted.
[QUOTE=Psyte;3188128]I'm just curious - Sappers and Carnies aside, are enemies built on the assuption that players have Health and Stamina?
Stamina isn't really that helpful against the sudden endurance drain of Sappers. Stamina is a constant small increase in recovery... when sappers drain you dry & knock your toggles off, it will take too long for stamina to recover enough endurance to make much difference in that fight. Popping a blue inspiration- something non-stamina builds can do just as well- will have more of an immediate benefit to surviving that fight. When suddenly blue-drained- then next 10 secs are critical.
Sappers, if anything, show the value for powers like like Kinetics' transfusion, Fire's Consume, Dark Consumption, Energy Drain, and Drain Psyche... and to a lesser extent, the very-fast-endurance recovery effects of sets like Elude.
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Carnies? They're a smaller drain, but more frequent... so yeah, Stamina's a good fit for there too... at least on par with the powers listed above.
As for "designed with Stamina in mind?" I seriously doubt it. As noted, there are other stamina-enhancers out there including MANY in the support sets (Empathy, Kinetics, Radiation, etc). Heck, radiation defenders can access their team +recovery at level 2-- controllers and corruptors at level 4!
As the levels progress, the options open up, with it becoming increasingly likely that the team combination will have some way to mitigate stamina drainers.
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Don't forget the Clockwork endurance drain and CoV's low-level MU. The game does challenge you to manage endurance drain at the low levels. They just ramp up the challenge as you get more options open to you.
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Originally Posted by Psyte
Certainly not the low-level ones since nobody has Stamina until level 20, but what about higher level ones?
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I don't think so.|
Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
You know, I've always wondered that myself, would be nice to know if that were the case or not. It really doesn't matter beyond incidental, but I'm curious. Something tells me they'll be built from i19 on with that in mind though, at least base-slotted wise if they're not though, I would think.
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I think it's more about adjusting the base "feel" of the game to match the changing times. Back when CoH came out, there was a set defined expectation in MMO design. Teaming was more enforced-- you build with more of an expectation of having a buffer/healer in the group. You actually designed downtime into the game, in part to slow advancement, in part to encourage brief social moments during those moments (as social bonds are one of the biggest known factors in KEEPING people playing an MMO after they've mastered the game mechanics). That was MMO design 101 back then.
CoH actually stretched many of those concepts. We had things like the requisite inter-zone travel to stretch out gameplay, for example, but we had travel powers that mitigated the effect of the long journey. Where SWG used to have 15-minute timers in their shuttleports to encourage those waiting to chat & interact, we had a very short pause (you could see how our monorail could have had the similar waits, too)
We had stamina builds and leveling grind, but at less of an extreme than our predecessors. Our stamina came back quicker and our level advancement was faster. Our teaming was a little looser and our support class wasn't always a healer.
Later games challenged, changed, and pretty much broke many more of these conventions. WoW leveled even faster than CoH, interzone travel went by the wayside for more themed experiences, even SWG got rid of the travel wait times. The focus of stretching out play with "pause" moments has largely evaporated. Heck, for all its other issues, CO challenged the thinking behind the endurance meter... rather than pacing how frequently you can fight, theirs limits what you can do during a fight without delaying you from going into the next one.
All that has made players' EXPECTATIONS change since CoH launched.
I think that adding the fitness pool is simply part of CoH's answer to this trend-- to keep the game feeling faster-paced and energized compared to others out there. We move faster, jump higher, and wait a little less between battles. It nudges us forward-- keeping us trending with the newer design ideas without going all "NGE" on the gameplay.
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RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
... "NGE" ...
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@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Good thing that never happened. I think you need to expand your vocabulary. Ad homenim is not the term you were looking for.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
When someone shifts their argument to ad homenim, it's often a good sign that they can't actually defend their position.
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Also playing 'hurt' like you just did is often a sign of being a poor competitor or even a poor sport.
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| Some other stuff that I'm sure is only meaningful to Uber |
The latter is also not an ad hominen attack just fyi, so you can save your 'go to' defense (does it ever work for you? just seems like being purposefully pathetic to pick up girls via sympathy to me, but if it works go for it) for some other time. I have no expectations of someones knowledge base outside of the matter being discussed.
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Originally Posted by Hallowed
Since you seem to think that you have a point here, show me the math.
Show me how spending 4 slots on Fitness Pool powers now leaves you with a different amount of available slots than spending 4 slots on the some powers once they become inherent powers. |
It does. However, that is 63 additional slots over 21 power picks+health and sprint = 23 available powers.
Now it is an additional 63 slots over 24 power picks+health+sprint = 26 available powers.
I get what you are saying. 7x13 = 28
. Would you possibly understand the other side of what is being said if the example was more extreme? Like take a look at khelds and you might start to understand what others are saying. Which again isn't necessarily negative, but rather just an observation about the change. One I'm personally fine with, but am not unable to see.edit: imagine if you have 23 people to feed with $63. Now imagine you have 26 people to feed with $63. Someone(s) aren't going to get as good of a lunch.
Anyway, take care guys. All my best and enjoy City Of. I will hopefully be back for i20 if that incarnate system ever gets into full swing.
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I assume you can read English since you keep replying to people, but then the replies are so out of touch with reality I'm forced to question that conclusion.
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Originally Posted by Nicetry
Given the position of expertise you tend to take, I'm a bit surprised how little you actually know about this game.
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Are we still arguing over the definition of "tight build"?
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I have a lot of definition on my tight build by doing high amounts of repetition with somewhat lower weights.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
Are we still arguing over the definition of "tight build"?
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Is this what we're arguing about?
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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No, but we should be...might violate the new rules though.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I have a lot of definition on my tight build by doing high amounts of repetition with somewhat lower weights.
Is this what we're arguing about? |
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What was wrong with waiting until 20?
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Originally Posted by Castle
Yes, they are enhanceable and you can add up to 5 additional slots to them, just like the current versions. The powers are all available either at level 1 or 2 (I forget at the moment) -- no waiting 'til 20 for Stamina.
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No.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
Are we still arguing over the definition of "tight build"?
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This thread is so close to 1000 posts. I can start arguing over pointless semantics again if it will help us get there.
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Thats a pretty big "but" when you are an alt-o-holic with over 50 characters. LOTS of work in the future.|
Originally Posted by Castle
Here's the only catch:
You'll have to respec to take advantage of it on existing characters. |
On the other hand, a new power pool (4 instead of 3 + fitness) is pretty nifty, so some of those new build might be exiting. Only very short of slots. Every build will be like a Kheldian.
Shaddap, you Debbie Downers!
We don't know what those consequences may be just yet. On a per character basis, inherent Fitness looks positive, but there may be some negative outcomes at the overall level. We'll have to wait and see what happens when inherent Fitness goes into public testing.